Who is a clean rider

[MellowJohnny]

Mark Renshaw? - I hope so

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Yes.

Would you like me to post some more YT videos of riders I think are not clean? There's loads!

His point was that your video doesn't provide any indication of anything. A specialist climber with a sprint wins a small bunch sprint on a climbing stage early in a Grand Tour. So what?

What's suspicious about that? It's one thing to use performance as something that can at least suggest doping, but here you are relying only on a performance that didn't involve putting out superhuman numbers and which took place long before we might expect non-dopers to suffer an additional performance decline relative to dopers.

 

[Big Doopie]

I see you have a sense of humour!

(Coz there is no ****ing way any of those 3 are clean.)

really?

based on what exactly?

i have no idea about de gehnt.

but what about phinney and tjvg appears unbelievable.

pray, tell us.

 

[Tyler'sTwin]

I see you have a sense of humour!

(Coz there is no ****ing way any of those 3 are clean.)

Another vote for Thomas Lovkvist.

So Dan Martin can't be clean because he's just too good, but these results are doable?

3rd Giro dell'Emilia
3rd Overall, Tirreno-Adriatico
3rd Stage 5 (MTF), Giro d'Italia -09 (not from breakaway)
4th Overall, Tirreno-Adriatico
5th Overall, Tour de Suisse
6th Flèche Wallonne
17th Overall, Tour de France

 

[The Chicken]

His point was that your video doesn't provide any indication of anything. A specialist climber with a sprint wins a small bunch sprint on a climbing stage early in a Grand Tour. So what?

What's suspicious about that? It's one thing to use performance as something that can at least suggest doping, but here you are relying only on a performance that didn't involve putting out superhuman numbers and which took place long before we might expect non-dopers to suffer an additional performance decline relative to dopers.

I have my view on DM, you have yours. I am not going to argue with you. Let's just agree to disagree shall we?

Back to clean riders (imo) - Danny Pate!

 

[Rui Quinta]

All Garmin's boys. Vande Velde, Danielson and Zabriskie mainly, cause they just doped on USP, CSC and Liberty Seguros. And Leipheimer... for the same reasons. They are clean riders

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

To support now?

I'm wondering if there are any that haven't been linked with doping in the past at all? - perhaps some of the one day riders!

the colombians. they've always been. their natural bodies are already doped and them making a sudden huge rising again in european cycling means to me current cycling is very clean

 

[MellowJohnny]

Chris Horner has not been mentioned in the investigations? - yet he rode with LL and LA for Mellow Johnnys

Also what about those riders Armstrong turned against Contador in the 09 TdF - Paulhino, Rast, Popovych etc

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

I have my view on DM, you have yours. I am not going to argue with you. Let's just agree to disagree shall we?

I think you are rather missing the point of this exchange.

Somebody suggested Dan Martin as a clean rider. You said you didn't think so. I asked you what you based that opinion on and outlined that none of the "traditional" circumstantial evidence that points towards doping exists for Martin.

You then, apparently by way of explanation, posted a video containing a not particularly remarkable performance. I'm still waiting for you to make a case for your view, and at this point my assumption is that you aren't doing so because you don't have a rational case to make.

 

[MellowJohnny]

Cadel Evans has worked with Ferrari at some point?

 

[Rui Quinta]

Chris Horner has not been mentioned in the investigations? - yet he rode with LL and LA for Mellow Johnnys

Also what about those riders Armstrong turned against Contador in the 09 TdF - Paulhino, Rast, Popovych etc

Popovych name appears on Bertagnolli testimony, that connects Popo and his friend Bileka Ferrari. And not forget that Popo never was the same after Bileka positive for EPO (April 2008).

 

[ToreBear]

Boassen Hagen anyone?

Haven't seen or heard anything even remotely indicating he is not clean.

But I'm Norwegian, so I might be biased.

 

[iZnoGouD]

Tiago Machado is clean and he will win the Giro next year

 

[iZnoGouD]

Chris Horner has not been mentioned in the investigations? - yet he rode with LL and LA for Mellow Johnnys

Also what about those riders Armstrong turned against Contador in the 09 TdF - Paulhino, Rast, Popovych etc

Leave Paulinho alone mmkay?

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

About Dan Martin, he did criticise the no dope controls at the Tour du Haut Var and the Tour de Mediterraneen earlier in the season.

I am not saying I am 100% certain he is clean but this is something we don't hear normally from lots of riders and it was certainly good to see a rider flag this up as an issue at the time.

Yes. I'm not willing to claim certainty about the cleanliness of any rider, bar a couple where something very unusual has happened to prove that status (eg Bassons). I don't see how you could be certain.

But, where there is no even circumstantial evidence pointing towards doping and the little circumstantial evidence we have points away from it, I think it's pretty unfair to smear people. The only countervailing factor as far as Martin is concerned is the standard level of skepticism about any reasonably successful pro, a skepticism which is entirely impersonal.

 

[Rui Quinta]

Tiago Machado is clean and he will win the Giro next year

I'm not to confident about that... both sentences. Sometimes young guys makes mistakes

 

[hiero2]

You could start here: http://bikepure.org/riders-and-teams/pro-riders/

I see Phinney in those 14 or so pages. And others. It is just a pledge, but you have to have faith at some point. This seems like one possibility.

 

[RedheadDane]

You could start here: http://bikepure.org/riders-and-teams/pro-riders/

I see Phinney in those 14 or so pages. And others. It is just a pledge, but you have to have faith at some point. This seems like one possibility.

Just looked through this. Then I came to page 7...

 

[goggalor]

Well, Leipheimer and Vandevelde have been clean since 2006.

...but in all seriousness, Gustav Larsson, Danny Pate and Alex Kristoff come to mind.

Edit: reading his affidavit now, Levi didn't actually claim to be clean from 2006. But didn't he say something along the lines of cycling being clean for the last six years?

 

[hiero2]

Just looked through this. Then I came to page 7...

Who on page 7? Xavier Tondo? Well, we KNOW he was anti-doping, even if he is no longer with us. I will say this, Froome and Porte are in those pages too. For some ppl on this board, that whole list will lose any respectability because of that - but one has to start having faith somewhere. And, this just means they willingly took a pledge, not that they kept it. It is a start.

As is this thread:
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=17973

 

[theyoungest]

Who on page 7? Xavier Tondo? Well, we KNOW he was anti-doping, even if he is no longer with us. I will say this, Froome and Porte are in those pages too. For some ppl on this board, that whole list will lose any respectability because of that - but one has to start having faith somewhere. And, this just means they willingly took a pledge, not that they kept it. It is a start.

As is this thread:
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=17973

Yeah, buy a BikePure wristband and you're clean. Great system.

 

[Ninety5rpm]

Here's one I haven't seen yet....

No Body

Seriously. Hamilton says he'd be surprised if the percentage of doped riders in the peloton is less than 85%. I think he's being conservative.

I'd be shocked if anybody is clean.

Remember, these guys, naturally, are way closer in conditioning than any of your buddies are to you. They are the best of the best, in tip-top shape. The differences among them are relatively small. If one is doping and another is not, that tiny difference grows several times in magnitude. That means the clean rider can't even stay on the doped rider's wheel.

If we learned nothing else from Armstrong, it's that even with all of them doping, the one on the best doping program can still blow the other dopers away, with seven Tour wins in a row. That's how much doping matters.

Also, think about omerta. Now why would someone clean be part of that? Why wouldn't they be expressing outrage at all the doping right and left, complaining to the press, ratting out (anonymously) other riders, etc., etc.? The only explanation is because they are all in on it - they are all doping. Still. To this day. I'm convinced it is that bad. That's why they all can justify the doping so easily to themselves. Like Coyle says, in their minds, their own doping just makes it fair to compete with the cheaters.

I simply cannot imagine how anyone could hang on with these guys clean.

 

[Tom T.]

Pretty much none of them would be my guess. Maybe the guys fighting it out for Lanterne Rouge.

 

[RedheadDane]

Who on page 7? Xavier Tondo? Well, we KNOW he was anti-doping, even if he is no longer with us. I will say this, Froome and Porte are in those pages too. For some ppl on this board, that whole list will lose any respectability because of that - but one has to start having faith somewhere. And, this just means they willingly took a pledge, not that they kept it. It is a start.

As is this thread:
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=17973

Well... I tend to get sad-face every time one of those who've tragically been lost comes up.
And perhaps especially in this situation...

 

[kurtinsc]

I think the guys who can get up for one stage and then look toasted the next day are probably fairly clean (or at least doping at a much more restrained level).

I'd guess many of the ITT specialists who can't climb for beans are probably reasonable clean as well.

While I like TJVG and Phinney... I have a much easier time believing Phinney might be clean then Van Garderen. When you climb with the best consistently (like TJVG did this past year in the tour) I think it's unlikely you are clean.

If you can pound out great ITT's when the course is flat but look pathetic every time you hit a speed bump like Phinney... yeah, I think that might be fairly clean.

But I wouldn't be suprised if anyone in cycling tests positive. There's no way to tell someone is clean, but it's easy to more strongly suspect someone is dirty.