Who is clean?

[zapata]

Thomas Voeckler
Pierrick Fedrigo
David Moncoutié
Pierre Rolland
Rubén Plaza
Linus Gerdemann
Sandy Casar
Damiano Cunego

...one of these names is a red herring.

Plus, though Euskaltel are hardly the team with the best reputation out there, it would absolutely break my heart if Amets Txurruka were to be +, and I'd like to think he's clean, given the lack of results for such ridiculously hard work.

but, to be fair, if the question is "who IS clean", not "who has been clean all along", Plaza might conceivably be as "clean" as a couple of other names on the list. near the end. 100% agree on Txurruka, hope and think he'll finally get a big win soon.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

but, to be fair, if the question is "who IS clean", not "who has been clean all along", Plaza might conceivably be as "clean" as a couple of other names on the list. near the end. 100% agree on Txurruka, hope and think he'll finally get a big win soon.

Yup, Gerdemann was on T-Mobile, and Cunego has been about as clear as he possibly can without incurring suspension to saying that he's been off the beaten path so to speak. But I can say with a reasonable level of certainty (which is about all we can ever say with anybody outside of David Moncoutié) that both are riding clean now. Rubén Plaza, no matter what he does, is like Ángel Vicioso - you're just wondering when he'll pop, which isn't a feeling you get with Gerdemann or Cunego anymore.

 

[santacruz]

“It was unexpected. Speaking to Frankie, he said that he got on the bus and his team-mate said, ‘hey, dude, you are going to win.’ He was like, ‘whaaat?’

Frank Schleck is definitely on the weed, at the very least. Whaaaat?? Oh sh!t bro I accidentally rode that fast??

 

[hfer07]

evans, cunego, leipheimer, wiggins and sastre?

*Are you aware of Levi "Leech"-haimer's name being mentioned in the Landis Allegations?
*Did you ever look at those funky blood values of Wiggins from last year's Tour?

honestly your man-crush on Evans is making you blind...

 

[Rafiki]

*Are you aware of Levi "Leech"-haimer's name being mentioned in the Landis Allegations?
*Did you ever look at those funky blood values of Wiggins from last year's Tour?
.

I've not seen wiggo's values - where are they? But I do know that British Cycling monitor their riders regularly: one aberration and the whole track revolution is destroyed. That Wiggo has gone from living in the monastic regime as a road/track rider to being a road specialist, and has improved road performances, isn't surprising at all. I'm totally confident that Wiggo is as clean as you can get.

I'm sure that despite a non media friendly front, Cadel Evans is clean - one clear hint was the strong endorsement he had from Graham Jones in the 2007 TdF... he wanted Evans to win so that we had a clean winner. That suggests that there are no rumours on the ground that he's juiced up.

David Millar now is clean... And he's a much better person than he used to be before his suspension! Millar is now enjoying his cycling, he's great with the fans, he's able to put all things into perspective and is doing so with a pure love of the sport. He's like the person who's given up smoking and evangelises about it.

I have faith in the Bouyes Telecom boys, Garmin, htc and Sky... I think that each of these teams has an ethic that is beyond the superficial and they are genuine in trying to have a clean sport. Katusha as well are almost on this spectrum: they got rid of Steegmans after he refused to sign their dope charter, and their results despite the investment suggest that there is no organised programme of doping.

I hope that after being blighted our sport is cleaning up for real. I also relish the day when attention is on tennis (l'Equipe talked about the top Spanish player's involvement with Dr Fuentes) and football (From memory, Dr Fuentes said that about a third of his clients were footballers, and l'Equipe ran stories on both Benifica and Real Madrid players using the Doc... and the Italian league, with a decent drug testing programme, did find a spate of druggies - Jaap Stam went from Man United to Lazio and was found positive, then stupidly got a five month ban!)

 

[filipo]

I have faith in the Bouyes Telecom boys, Garmin, htc and Sky... I think that each of these teams has an ethic that is beyond the superficial and they are genuine in trying to have a clean sport. Katusha as well are almost on this spectrum: they got rid of Steegmans after he refused to sign their dope charter, and their results despite the investment suggest that there is no organised programme of doping.

Katusha also got rid of Pfannenberger after he got popped for EPO. Oh yeah, and they got rid of Colom after *he* got popped for EPO. And then the world held its collective breath to wait for what seemed to be the inevitable positive from suddenly world beating ex-TMobile, ex-Fassa, ex-Astana rider Sergei Ivanov. Never happened, but then, you know -- Kirchen in a coma.

Katusha's about as clean as my *** after a 5-day camping trip.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I'm sure that despite a non media friendly front, Cadel Evans is clean - one clear hint was the strong endorsement he had from Graham Jones in the 2007 TdF... he wanted Evans to win so that we had a clean winner. That suggests that there are no rumours on the ground that he's juiced up.

I remember reading an article hyping up Garmin-Chipotle (as they were at the time) as a clean team by somebody travelling with them throughout the Tour. They were talking about the 'clean revolution', and they even held up Bernhard Kohl collapsing at the finish line of Alpe d'Huez as evidence of the lengths one sometimes has to go to to compete clean.

Bet they wish they could have that one back.

 

[Benotti69]

*Did you ever look at those funky blood values of Wiggins from last year's Tour?

i would like to see to his levels from last years TdF compared to others..especially with what we know about levels in a GT

 

[auscyclefan94]

*Are you aware of Levi "Leech"-haimer's name being mentioned in the Landis Allegations?
*Did you ever look at those funky blood values of Wiggins from last year's Tour?

honestly your man-crush on Evans is making you blind...

No you are going blind. I was guessing who Inner Peace was thinking was clean you moron! Don't assume buddy as you make an *** out of u and me!

 

[Race Radio]

There is some things that bother me about Basso. His power to weight ratio is obviously good. His times up the tough Giro climbs were comparable to times before his ban. He does not look any fatter than he used to, so his drag numbers should be similar to what they were before; maybe they should even be a little better since time trial bikes are a little better. Why can't he time trail anymore?

This is a good question. There are a number of good riders who suddenly cannot TT, just as there were riders 5-10 years ago who could suddenly TT (Pantani, Riis). How is it that riders like Armstrong, who used to beat fields by 1-2 minutes now can not even crack the top 10?

 

[Cerberus]

This is a good question. There are a number of good riders who suddenly cannot TT, just as there were riders 5-10 years ago who could suddenly TT (Pantani, Riis). How is it that riders like Armstrong, who used to beat fields by 1-2 minutes now can not even crack the top 10?

Armstrong is easy. Old age explains pretty much everything. If he won in July he'd be the oldest tour winner for 80 years at least. Pantani and Riis aren't exactly hard to explain either...

 

[smaryka]

nobody's clean

Spent some time this weekend reading various forums on doping in cycling and endurance sports. As in, forums where people discuss their own personal use of PEDs.

Frankly it's depressing to read about amateur racers injecting themselves with a cocktail of veterinarian drugs and justifying it by saying "it gives me more energy for my family after a 6 hour ride", "it makes me feel healthy", "I get a high from riding people off my wheel" etc. While Kim Kirchen lies in a coma. And talented young riders can't even get out of 1st cat without the pressure to conform.

It's much more prevalent than I ever thought it was. And if the ones in the know on those forums are to be believed, there's hardly a single pro or top domestic elite out there not doping either. The tide's not changing at all, people are just better at masking their use. High hematocrit is where it's at, period. No stand-out performance can be believed as being clean, no matter who it is.

It's hopeless I think. *sigh*

Bring on the Tour... I guess.

 

[Escarabajo]

This is a good question. There are a number of good riders who suddenly cannot TT, just as there were riders 5-10 years ago who could suddenly TT (Pantani, Riis). How is it that riders like Armstrong, who used to beat fields by 1-2 minutes now can not even crack the top 10?

Age? Limited doping? I don't know what else.

 

[BroDeal]

This is a good question. There are a number of good riders who suddenly cannot TT, just as there were riders 5-10 years ago who could suddenly TT (Pantani, Riis). How is it that riders like Armstrong, who used to beat fields by 1-2 minutes now can not even crack the top 10?

I suspect that changes in the testing procedures have eliminated some practices. Riders were not tightly chaperoned when they were selected for dope testing before Armtrong retired. The morning testing procedures have also changed.

There have been rumors that on single critical stages riders are transfusing blood in between the early morning vampire visits and the race start then dumping the blood after the stage.

 

[Rip:30]

Why do so many think David Moncoutie is so clean?

 

[Benotti69]

Why do so many think David Moncoutie is so clean?

why does anyone think anyone is clean in the peleton?

it would seem that if you can manage to race* in a major GT clean and finish that were all the riders clean you would be the winner!

*by race i mean not spend 20+days out of the wind on wheels, but compete at a few points in a GT..

 

[centri]

Why do so many think David Moncoutie is so clean?

I was just wondering this yesterday. People here in the Cynic D) are quick to jump on everyone but this guy. Why?

 

[Frosty]

In the Cofidis scandal in 2004 Gaumont said that only Moncoutie and Tombak were the ones he was convinced(not sure of exact translation) were clean. Other people have said he is clean as well and if you believe that it is possible to ride at a good pro level and be clean then his results dont really arouse suspicion. I have wondered in the past though why some people seem so convinced he is clean. I doubt anyone here is even good friends with him and even good friends dont always know the truth about drug taking. Gaumont could have had a personal reason to stick up for Moncoutie for all we know. Id believe in him more than anyone who finishes top 10 in the tour this year but i wouldnt say he was definitely clean.

 

[The Hitch]

In the Cofidis scandal in 2004 Gaumont said that only Moncoutie and Tombak were the ones he was convinced(not sure of exact translation) were clean. Other people have said he is clean as well and if you believe that it is possible to ride at a good pro level and be clean then his results dont really arouse suspicion. I have wondered in the past though why some people seem so convinced he is clean. I doubt anyone here is even good friends with him and even good friends dont always know the truth about drug taking. Gaumont could have had a personal reason to stick up for Moncoutie for all we know. Id believe in him more than anyone who finishes top 10 in the tour this year but i wouldnt say he was definitely clean.

I think its also something about his character. I heard people say he is completely different to other cyclists, a bit of a loner, not very competitive. Read into this what you want but it might be another reason why people think hes clean, especially since its the competitive aspect that makes people take ped's. read the personality section of his wikipedia page.

Also just wondering. Do people think Jens Voight is clean?

 

[Frosty]

I think its also something about his character. I heard people say he is completely different to other cyclists, a bit of a loner, not very competitive. Read into this what you want but it might be another reason why people think hes clean, especially since its the competitive aspect that makes people take ped's. read the personality section of his wikipedia page.

Ive read it before, its encouraging but i just dont get how people can be so certain about someone they dont know

 

[The Hitch]

Ive read it before, its encouraging but i just dont get how people can be so certain about someone they dont know

You are right. I dont think people are certain that he is clean. But even though the clynic is mostly based on guilty till proven innocent (since its difficult to get evidence that cyclists are doping, even if it is obvious) most posters here will acuse someone of doping if
a they have been caught and punished eg (ivan basso)
b they have been caught but not punished (lance armstong, frank schleck)
c they are on a johan bruneel team (eg janez brajkovic)
d they have links to known blood doctors (eg mick rogers)
e they put in a truly amazing performance (eg fabian cancellara)

Moncoutie fills none of the above so will get the benefit of the doubt

 

[Roninho]

Why do so many think David Moncoutie is so clean?

"J’ai passé sept années chez Cofidis et, durant tout ce temps, je n’ai côtoyé que deux coureurs qui ne prenaient pas de produits: l’Estonien Janek Tombak et, surtout, le Français David Moncoutié", from the book Prisonnier du Dopage of Philippe Gaumont.

Cofidis was in a big doping including Gaumont himself. He retired, wrote a book and admitted, and according to him Moncoutie and Tombak were the only 2 riders of all of Gaumont's teammates during 7 years at Cofidis that did not dope.

 

[Red Lobster]

Why do so many think David Moncoutie is so clean?

From what I understand they can barely get the guy to take aspirin, never mind EPO.

 

[R.0.t.O]

I've not seen wiggo's values - where are they? But I do know that British Cycling monitor their riders regularly: one aberration and the whole track revolution is destroyed. That Wiggo has gone from living in the monastic regime as a road/track rider to being a road specialist, and has improved road performances, isn't surprising at all. I'm totally confident that Wiggo is as clean as you can get.

The BC track programme certainly isn't clean. I know of at least one prominent recent member of the squad that was doping with at the least the knowledge of other squad members. Also lolz at Wiggo living in a 'monastic regime'.

 

[Wiesmier]

Where is your evidence R.0.t.O?

Knowing the team, the riders in the team and the regular testing they are subjected to, I'd very very very surprised if it were true.