Who is the better Classics cyclist between Tadej Pogačar and Mathieu van der Poel?

[Ilmaestro99]

2026 . Remco is gonna make the other two look like clowns on a group ride in Flanders. Full aero bullet attack.

 

[Lorzenz08]

What I see is the same thing over and over again. PTSD of Pogacar's dominance, specially those who are Remco fans.
Firstly, you were saying MVP was better because he had more wins. Me and @hayneplane showed with numbers that you were wrong. So the most reasonable thing to say is Pogacar is better because he has more wins (it was you who used this argument to justify your opinion, not me).
But no! You still maintain your opinion based on your gut feeling (ignoring actual facts now).
Incoherence at his best.
Correct me if there is any sense in this.

The more Pogi wins the stronger their mental gymnastics become.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

But in what world would MVhttps://www.procyclingstats.com/images/profiles/ap/be/eschborn-frankfurt-2025-result-pP be under 2 minutes in a (almost) 8km climb at 6%, right after doing a 2.5 km climb around 7%? Pogacar would smoke the peloton everyone there and no one would catch him. Name a rider able to catch Pogacar after a hard pace and 2 climbs that together are like 10 km at 6.3%? I'm not even talking about MVP, even Remco wouldn't close a 1' gap to Pogacar alone.

So now you say it would be an easy 90 kilometer solo where there are only two small hills except the 2,4 km Mammolshain?
In Zurich he managed a long solo, but that was on a much harder parcour and against national teams. I honestly think it's a very strange assumption that Pogacar would be able to go solo from Feldsberg against a peloton with WT-teams. From Glashütten it's basically 2,4 km of upphill, 10 km of downhill and 55 km flat. A solo rider would be extremely disadvantaged.

If the World Cup came back to cycling again (and every rider participated in it), which rider would win? I think the answer is clear.

This is moving the goalpost. I've never said anything that would indicate that I dont think Pogacar would've score the most points if they both did all 21 races, I just think you were wrong with this statement: "Pogacar would probably beat MVP in 70% of WT classics".

 

[Cance > TheRest]

The question in the poll is about who is the better overall classics rider, and Pogacar is the answer here, because he is the only current rider capable of winning all five monuments. If the question had been framed differently, i.e. as the best spring classics rider, I would consider MvdP the best, because I believe he has a more refined arsenal of weapons in the "flatter" races, which will enable him to beat Pogacar in various scenarios. Pogacar is more of a "one trick pony" in the spring classics, as he is always reliant on his superior watts/kg at efforts over 5 minutes to actually win these races.

As for Remco, I applaud the humorous intentions behind his inclusion in the poll.

 

[Gargamel35]

Classics come down to monuments and WC.

Monuments:
Pogačar: 9
MvdP: 8
Remco: 2

WC:
Pogačar: 1
MvdP: 1
Remco: 1

Remco is out.
Pogačar won 3 different monuments and placed 2nd and 3rd in other two. 9 wins at the age of 26.
MvdP won 3 different monuments and placed 3rd in one and 10th in the other. 8 wins at the age of 30.

Pogačar is the best classics rider right now.

 

[Lorzenz08]

So now you say it would be an easy 90 kilometer solo where there are only two small hills except the 2,4 km Mammolshain?
In Zurich he managed a long solo, but that was on a much harder parcour and against national teams. I honestly think it's a very strange assumption that Pogacar would be able to go solo from Feldsberg against a peloton with WT-teams. From Glashütten it's basically 2,4 km of upphill, 10 km of downhill and 55 km flat. A solo rider would be extremely disadvantaged.

This is moving the goalpost. I've never said anything that would indicate that I dont think Pogacar would've score the most points if they both did all 21 races, I just think you were wrong with this statement: "Pogacar would probably beat MVP in 70% of WT classics".

He can go on Mammolshain, no one follows him, then its 28k solo.

 

[Peyroteo94]

So now you say it would be an easy 90 kilometer solo where there are only two small hills except the 2,4 km Mammolshain?
In Zurich he managed a long solo, but that was on a much harder parcour and against national teams. I honestly think it's a very strange assumption that Pogacar would be able to go solo from Feldsberg against a peloton with WT-teams. From Glashütten it's basically 2,4 km of upphill, 10 km of downhill and 55 km flat. A solo rider would be extremely disadvantaged.

This is moving the goalpost. I've never said anything that would indicate that I dont think Pogacar would've score the most points if they both did all 21 races, I just think you were wrong with this statement: "Pogacar would probably beat MVP in 70% of WT classics".

He would be racing against small groups of riders with G2 syndrome.

I was wrong, not 70% for sure (probably around 55-60% IMO after looking to each classic). However I didn't express myself well in one thing. I was talking in races where both can compete for the win. I think neither of them would win those sprint classics I mentioned earlier.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

He can go on Mammolshain, no one follows him, then its 28k solo.

35k* and around 30 is flat where drafting would be very useful. And it is limited how much of a gap one can get on a 7 minute climb that isnt extremely steep I think.

 

[The bald fraud]

There is only one real solution how to solve the dilemma: would either Pogacar or MVDP win the ultimate classic race, a race even Merckx could not conquer? I am talking about Paris-Tours, of course.

 

[hayneplane]

Both Pogacar and MVDP are top tier all time one day riders and both have higher monument win rates than even Eddy Merckx.

What is truly remarkable is that the rate they are both winning at is increasing in the last two years to the point where they are severely cramping the palmares of other riders who in slightly weaker eras could be racking up very solid totals.

 

[hayneplane]

There is only one real solution how to solve the dilemma: would either Pogacar or MVDP win the ultimate classic race, a race even Merckx could not conquer? I am talking about Paris-Tours, of course.

Unironically with the new gravel and mud sections I think both would enjoy racing there and fancy their chances of winning.

 

[Jan the Man]

Think it is pretty obvious Pog is the best all round classic rider as he's pretty much the only one who can compete on all fronts

In terms of monuments and in particular outright wins (in other classics)it is obviously much closer- MvP Vs Pog they are both heavy favourites in 2 of the monuments they compete in Flanders is more evenly matched.

The big difference between Pog and MvP being that Pog can be super competitive with MvP in those monuments whose characteristics suit MvP whereas realistically MvP cannot compete with Pog in LBL or Lombardia.

As for Remco he as the ability if he stays upright and gets some luck avoiding crashes in the off season to be right up there with Pog in Adrennes (other than Fleche),- Lombardia I think favours Pog more due to the current usual parcours being more climbing heavy. I also think Remco can compete in the others and actually think he would be competitive in MSR and could be flanders/Roubaix but positioning needs to improve a lot for Roubaix, and probably needs to sacrifice a GT ambition for that year to weigh a bit more.

 

[hayneplane]

Think it is pretty obvious Pog is the best all round classic rider as he's pretty much the only one who can compete on all fronts

In terms of monuments and in particular outright wins (in other classics)it is obviously much closer- MvP Vs Pog they are both heavy favourites in 2 of the monuments they compete in Flanders is more evenly matched.

The big difference between Pog and MvP being that Pog can be super competitive with MvP in those monuments whose characteristics suit MvP whereas realistically MvP cannot compete with Pog in LBL or Lombardia.

As for Remco he as the ability if he stays upright and gets some luck avoiding crashes in the off season to be right up there with Pog in Adrennes (other than Fleche),- Lombardia I think favours Pog more due to the current usual parcours being more climbing heavy. I also think Remco can compete in the others and actually think he would be competitive in MSR and could be flanders/Roubaix but positioning needs to improve a lot for Roubaix, and probably needs to sacrifice a GT ambition for that year to weigh a bit more.

If this years tour is anything to go by Remco would be stuck in P50 at the entry to the Cipressa and already be 200 metres behind when it starts to get strung out. In theory yes he could do well in MSR as distance has never troubled him and those high speed shallow clubs are where his aero position is of great benefit.

 

[HashRouge]

If this years tour is anything to go by Remco would be stuck in P50 at the entry to the Cipressa and already be 200 metres behind when it starts to get strung out. In theory yes he could do well in MSR as distance has never troubled him and those high speed shallow clubs are where his aero position is of great benefit.

Funnily enough, I was just thinking the exact same thing. I've always thought Remco would find it easier to win MSR than Pogi, but after the last 12 months I've got very little faith in his positioning. He always seems to be lolloping about in the middle of the bunch when Pogacar is attacking off the front. Sometimes it's because he's struggling for position like at Liege this year, but sometimes he just seems clueless as to the fact that he should be stuck to Pogacar's back wheel like glue ready for an attack (2024 world champs). Even taking Pogacar doing crazy things out of the equation, the Cipressa and the Poggio are both tricky for positioning. If Remco was able to do a flyer off the front after the Poggio descent he would be very, very difficult to bring back, but I don't have huge confidence that he'd be able to position himself well enough to ensure that he stayed with the leading group over the Poggio.

 

[peterfin]

What I see is the same thing over and over again. PTSD of Pogacar's dominance, specially those who are Remco fans (not all obviously).
Firstly, you were saying MVP was better because he had more wins. Me and @hayneplane showed with numbers that you were wrong. So the most reasonable thing to say is Pogacar is better because he has more wins (it was you who used this argument to justify your opinion, not me).
But no! You still maintain your opinion based on your gut feeling (ignoring actual facts now).
Incoherence at his best.
Correct me if there is any sense in this.

First. Yes there is any sense to this but you need to read it. I explained myself. To me, MVDP is a better classic rider but, yes, Pogacar has his 'numbers' so based on these stats you can say he is the best classic rider.

Second. You start this thread to have a discussion. I participate but you shoot on me because my answer doesn't fit your worldview. I don't ask to be ridiculed.

 

[YavorD]

So now you say it would be an easy 90 kilometer solo where there are only two small hills except the 2,4 km Mammolshain?
In Zurich he managed a long solo, but that was on a much harder parcour and against national teams. I honestly think it's a very strange assumption that Pogacar would be able to go solo from Feldsberg against a peloton with WT-teams. From Glashütten it's basically 2,4 km of upphill, 10 km of downhill and 55 km flat. A solo rider would be extremely disadvantaged.

This is moving the goalpost. I've never said anything that would indicate that I dont think Pogacar would've score the most points if they both did all 21 races, I just think you were wrong with this statement: "Pogacar would probably beat MVP in 70% of WT classics".

Nah, Pogacar doesn't even need to attack in Frankfurt.
With a fully dedicated UAE team, they will most probably drop MVDP and he can win the reduced bunch sprint.
Let alone that, even if he attacks, the group 2 syndrome will most probably kick in.
I mean, if Van Der Poel comes back, who would want to bring him to the finish?
So you really need Van Der Poel and 3 from Alpecin to realistically be able to catch Pogacar.

 

[Peyroteo94]

First. Yes there is any sense to this but you need to read it. I explained myself. To me, MVDP is a better classic rider but, yes, Pogacar has his 'numbers' so based on these stats you can say he is the best classic rider.

Second. You start this thread to have a discussion. I participate but you shoot on me because my answer doesn't fit your worldview. I don't ask to be ridiculed.

It doesn't fit your previous self. Just that.

 

[topcat]

https://forum.cyclingnews.com/threads/who-is-the-better-classics-cyclist-between-tadej-pogačar-and-mathieu-van-der-poel.39354/

We don't need another Pogacar thread.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

https://forum.cyclingnews.com/threads/who-is-the-better-classics-cyclist-between-tadej-pogačar-and-mathieu-van-der-poel.39354/

We don't need another Pogacar thread.

Pogacar is the best rider of all time, can’t be too many threads about him

 

[Berniece]

It doesn't fit your previous self. Just that.

What’s the point of this thread? Or is this just so you can *** on other people with different views?

 

[Gigs_98]

It's so obviously Pogacar. Cannot believe this is actually something people are willing to argue against. With the same logic that's saying Pogacar cannot win MSR and PR I could argue 3 time RVV champion MvdP cannot win RVV. There is a guy who literally podiumed the last 7 major one day races in a row, winning 5 of them, and people are questioning whether he's the best one day racer. MvdP is great but c'mon.

 

[Berniece]

It's so obviously Pogacar. Cannot believe this is actually something people are willing to argue against. With the same logic that's saying Pogacar cannot win MSR and PR I could argue 3 time RVV champion MvdP cannot win RVV. There is a guy who literally podiumed the last 7 major one day races in a row, winning 5 of them, and people are questioning whether he's the best one day racer. MvdP is great but c'mon.

Because there is more to classics than just monuments. It’s also weird you think MVDP can’t win RVV with Pogacar there. He was clearly not himself this year, or you think it’s normal he finished with Pedersen and WVA…

 

[AmRacer]

Because there is more to classics than just monuments. It’s also weird you think MVDP can’t win RVV with Pogacar there. He was clearly not himself this year, or you think it’s normal he finished with Pedersen and WVA…

MVDP ran out of gas while trying to follow Pogi, that's why he finished with Pedersen. Hadn't Pogi raced, MVDP would have parked both Pedersen and WVA.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Because there is more to classics than just monuments. It’s also weird you think MVDP can’t win RVV with Pogacar there. He was clearly not himself this year, or you think it’s normal he finished with Pedersen and WVA…

The fact is that MVP lost last two Flandres races he contested against Pog and has little or zero chance in two other monuments (not just because of Pog but also others) .

OTOH only MVP at his best terrain stopped Pog from sweeping all monuments in one year.

There hasnt been such an all monument monster like Pog for a long time.

If MVP was a current holder of 3 monuments and WC there would be no doubts. Ie he was the best in 2023 with two monuments and WC.

 

[Gigs_98]

Because there is more to classics than just monuments. It’s also weird you think MVDP can’t win RVV with Pogacar there. He was clearly not himself this year, or you think it’s normal he finished with Pedersen and WVA…

Yes.

Also are you really sure you want to make the argument MvdP is a better classics rider because of non monument one day races? I'll give you a minute to think about this, please come back once you've made your decision.