Who is the most talented rider of the XXI century?

[Netserk]

Lol, Contador has probably won more TTs than Malori has...

 

[Jspear]

Contador is just a better time-trialist than other climbers and performed in climbing ITT's like every climbers do. 4th at the Olympics? lol. What was the Peking route like?

BigMac is right. Vayer noticed that since his come-back, Contador has never won a single ITT. He might be a better time-trialist than Quintana, he's nothing compared to Cancellara or Malori. Since the ITT is THE indicator of the engine of a rider, the best ITT'ists are the most talented riders. So Cancellara is the answer.


By the way, Mac, I wouldn't describe Evans as a really talented rider (though he's more than many others of course). He seems like a rider who made the most of relatively limited talent, thanks to amazing mental hardness, getting very deep. And that's a good thing.

By your logic Tony Martin is the most talented rider because he is the best tt'ist. Canc doesn't win them a lot these days.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Contador is just a better time-trialist than other climbers and performed in climbing ITT's like every climbers do. 4th at the Olympics? lol. What was the Peking route like?

BigMac is right. Vayer noticed that since his come-back, Contador has never won a single ITT. He might be a better time-trialist than Quintana, he's nothing compared to Cancellara or Malori. Since the ITT is THE indicator of the engine of a rider, the best ITT'ists are the most talented riders. So Cancellara is the answer.


By the way, Mac, I wouldn't describe Evans as a really talented rider (though he's more than many others of course). He seems like a rider who made the most of relatively limited talent, thanks to amazing mental hardness, getting very deep. And that's a good thing.

Echoes siding with LittleMac, color me surprised.

Anyway, Contador hasn't won any TTs since his comeback, but he has plenty of top 10s. By the way, if the best ITTer is the most talented rider, the answer would be Tony Martin, not Cancellara.
I know you dislike climbers and stage races but climbing is a big part of cycling.

 

[Miburo]

Contador has won flat ITT. You remember when was crushing in the last ITT of the giro 2011? He could have won that easily.

He owned Martin and Wiggins in an 8km ITT.

Ok short distance but who can say that? And he won with 8 sec, pretty big.

 

[Miburo]

If i had to make a top 5 btw

1.Piti
2.Cancellara
3.Contador
4.Freire
5.Boonen

If i can include der jan, then it's obviously him.

Godefroot once said that if he had the dedication of Zabel, he would have been better than merckx. I believe the man.

 

[ray j willings]

Contador is just a better time-trialist than other climbers and performed in climbing ITT's like every climbers do. 4th at the Olympics? lol. What was the Peking route like?

BigMac is right. Vayer noticed that since his come-back, Contador has never won a single ITT. He might be a better time-trialist than Quintana, he's nothing compared to Cancellara or Malori. Since the ITT is THE indicator of the engine of a rider, the best ITT'ists are the most talented riders. So Cancellara is the answer.


By the way, Mac, I wouldn't describe Evans as a really talented rider (though he's more than many others of course). He seems like a rider who made the most of relatively limited talent, thanks to amazing mental hardness, getting very deep. And that's a good thing.

I disagree with this post because its absolute nonsense.
Evans his a very talented bike rider, Should have won more GT's was very unlucky. A great stage racer.
World road race champion ....Cancellara has never won it.
Evans was also a MTB champion. He has fantastic bike handling skills and one of the best riders going down a mountain in the peleton.
At his peak Evans could climb with anyone ,Bertie included.
Cancellara is a talented rider but he can not match in any way the talent of Evans.

Your analogy of the best engine is rubbish. That's like saying a midfield player in soccer who can run around all day is a better player than Ronaldo are Messi. Nonsense

 

[SeriousSam]

Contador is just a better time-trialist than other climbers and performed in climbing ITT's like every climbers do. 4th at the Olympics? lol. What was the Peking route like?

BigMac is right. Vayer noticed that since his come-back, Contador has never won a single ITT. He might be a better time-trialist than Quintana, he's nothing compared to Cancellara or Malori. Since the ITT is THE indicator of the engine of a rider, the best ITT'ists are the most talented riders. So Cancellara is the answer.


By the way, Mac, I wouldn't describe Evans as a really talented rider (though he's more than many others of course). He seems like a rider who made the most of relatively limited talent, thanks to amazing mental hardness, getting very deep. And that's a good thing.

Aero plays a role as well for ITT. Not everyone's aerodynamically gifted (isn't that a big reason for Cav's sprinting success as well?)

We don't directly observe talent, only results, and there is disagreement about what talent should mean (in particular, it's not clear that it is FTP), but the most successfull riders are obviously the ones with the most talent. I have Valverde at or near the top (and Vino. His Champs win still one of my favourite results) because I value being very good at many things, but if you value being dominant in one type of race more, than guys like Contador, Cancellara, Cavendish are more talented.

 

[Buffalo Soldier]

Semantics: what's talent?

Not needing a lot of training to be top, or is the ability to train hard a talent on itself?

 

[phanatic]

His best result may have been in the 20th century, but Armstrong used to praise Ullrich to the hilt.

 

[Angliru]

Contador is not a talented cyclist. He climbs, TT's a bit, and that is all. Maybe he is talented at climbing, but still doesnt change that he is a sort of one trick pony, in the sence that he can only perform in one type of race. Talented cylists are jacks of various trades, masters of pretty much all, and among those there is no place for the likes of Contador.

The fact that you obviously have a proud and very strong dislike for Contador has no bearing on your opinion on this topic.

 

[Angliru]

I would say Boris Johnson.
You can see the power he puts down riding away from journalists.
David Cameron runs BoJo close but can't climb as well.
If Andrew Mitchell could have controlled his temper he could have been the greatest ever.

I also think that with natural talent, fantastic genetics etc and nice hair anyone one of us could be a champion.

The same thing was often said of Evans because of his similarly less than visually pleasing form on the bike. The argument being that their form on the bike was a direct result of them working harder than their more talented rivals, whose results come easier and with less effort.

 

[burning]

Contador is just a better time-trialist than other climbers and performed in climbing ITT's like every climbers do. 4th at the Olympics? lol. What was the Peking route like?

BigMac is right. Vayer noticed that since his come-back, Contador has never won a single ITT. He might be a better time-trialist than Quintana, he's nothing compared to Cancellara or Malori. Since the ITT is THE indicator of the engine of a rider, the best ITT'ists are the most talented riders. So Tony is the answer.


By the way, Mac, I wouldn't describe Evans as a really talented rider (though he's more than many others of course). He seems like a rider who made the most of relatively limited talent, thanks to amazing mental hardness, getting very deep. And that's a good thing.

Fixed that nonsense post to suit your warped logic.

It is really sad that you always say that you do not support doped riders but you still treat Cancellara like a god.

 

[BigMac]

Contador is just a better time-trialist than other climbers and performed in climbing ITT's like every climbers do. 4th at the Olympics? lol. What was the Peking route like?

BigMac is right. Vayer noticed that since his come-back, Contador has never won a single ITT. He might be a better time-trialist than Quintana, he's nothing compared to Cancellara or Malori. Since the ITT is THE indicator of the engine of a rider, the best ITT'ists are the most talented riders. So Tony is the answer.


By the way, Mac, I wouldn't describe Evans as a really talented rider (though he's more than many others of course). He seems like a rider who made the most of relatively limited talent, thanks to amazing mental hardness, getting very deep. And that's a good thing.

Fixed that nonsense post to suit your warped logic.

It is really sad that you always say that you do not support doped riders but you still treat Cancellara like a god.

Since you show yourself so attentive of Echoes' stance on doped riders, it would be fair to mention the countless times he wrote that once there was actual proof of Cancellara having done something illegal, he would be the first to jump on them.

Contador is just a better time-trialist than other climbers and performed in climbing ITT's like every climbers do. 4th at the Olympics? lol. What was the Peking route like?

BigMac is right. Vayer noticed that since his come-back, Contador has never won a single ITT. He might be a better time-trialist than Quintana, he's nothing compared to Cancellara or Malori. Since the ITT is THE indicator of the engine of a rider, the best ITT'ists are the most talented riders. So Cancellara is the answer.


By the way, Mac, I wouldn't describe Evans as a really talented rider (though he's more than many others of course). He seems like a rider who made the most of relatively limited talent, thanks to amazing mental hardness, getting very deep. And that's a good thing.

I understand, makes sense. Still, seemed like tailored for the sport.

Contador is not a talented cyclist. He climbs, TT's a bit, and that is all. Maybe he is talented at climbing, but still doesnt change that he is a sort of one trick pony, in the sence that he can only perform in one type of race. Talented cylists are jacks of various trades, masters of pretty much all, and among those there is no place for the likes of Contador.

The fact that you obviously have a proud and very strong dislike for Contador has no bearing on your opinion on this topic.

Yes, proud and out of the closet and all stuff like that

 

[Netserk]

Contador is just a better time-trialist than other climbers and performed in climbing ITT's like every climbers do. 4th at the Olympics? lol. What was the Peking route like?

BigMac is right. Vayer noticed that since his come-back, Contador has never won a single ITT. He might be a better time-trialist than Quintana, he's nothing compared to Cancellara or Malori. Since the ITT is THE indicator of the engine of a rider, the best ITT'ists are the most talented riders. So Tony is the answer.


By the way, Mac, I wouldn't describe Evans as a really talented rider (though he's more than many others of course). He seems like a rider who made the most of relatively limited talent, thanks to amazing mental hardness, getting very deep. And that's a good thing.

Fixed that nonsense post to suit your warped logic.

It is really sad that you always say that you do not support doped riders but you still treat Cancellara like a god.

Since you show yourself so attentive of Echoes' stance on doped riders, it would be fair to mention the countless times he wrote that once there was actual proof of Cancellara having done something illegal, he would be the first to jump on them.

So according to Echoes, Indurain is the biggest talent in the history of the sport?

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Or Anquetil. Or Pikkuus.

 

[Pippo_San]

It should be Oscar Freire.
Considering talent as the ability to win big without a lot of training, he must be the absolute n.1. Everyone always said how little he trained in comparison to his colleagues, especially because of his back problems. And look at his outstanding palmares.
Pure mesmerizing talent I'd say.

 

[Merckx index]

Forget "podiumed" all 3 gts, theres guys in the 20th century who have won all 3.

How many? Two, Contador and Nibs. How many classics have they won? They've each won one big single day race, neither as important as the Fleche. Neither has won the WC.

I don't know why you mention palmares because if we look at palmares Evans would be lucky to scrape top 10. He has 1 TDF, 1 Worlds. 1 classic. 1 TDF stage. 0 monuments, 0 other gts. There;s guys in the peloton who blow him out of the water.

It isn’t the amount of palmares, it’s the fact that he’s won both GTs and important single day races. Sure, there are guys who have won more one day races. How many of them have won the TDF, or podiumed in more GTs?

The same could be said for 2 or 3 dozen other riders from the last decade. Most weren't as good as Evans but then plenty of them were better. And almost all showed these talents on a more frequent basis.

Two or three dozen riders from the last decade were good enough to win the TDF, podium in the other GTs, and win sprints and bumpy stages?

I remind you, I wasn’t arguing that Evans was the most talented, I was arguing that he might have been the most complete or all-around. Of the guys in this century who were better GT riders, how many won the WC? How many could beat Evans in an uphill sprint? How many were better descenders? How many were better bike handlers?

I think you're focussing on the fact that Evans wasn't the best at anything. But the best all-rounders generally aren't.

Here's a way of looking at it. Suppose you wanted to create a bike team, and could have only one rider, but cloned as many times as necessary. This one rider would be your GC man, but he--clones of him--would also be your domestiques, in the mountains and on the flats, and your sprinter, and sprint leadout men. He would also be your classics rider and TT specialist.

I'd clone Evans for that. As I said before, Vino and Valverde would be good choices, too. Both were better one day racers, and Valverde was a better sprinter. But Evans was a better TTer than Vlaverde, and better than both at GC. Besides his TDF win, he came very close two other times. Neither Vino nor Valverde ever came that close to winning a TDF.

Since the ITT is THE indicator of the engine of a rider, the best ITT'ists are the most talented riders. So Cancellara is the answer.

If size of the engine is your standard, it would have to be some track sprinter. In climbing, of course, power/weight is more important than weight alone.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Merckx Index you believe the most talented rider must be the most versatile, others don't agree. There is no right answer.

 

[SafeBet]

Re:

Semantics: what's talent?

Not needing a lot of training to be top, or is the ability to train hard a talent on itself?

Then it's gotta be Pippo.

 

[nobilis]

No need for a thread because the answer is easy. Objectively and subjectively.
ALEJANDRO VALVERDE BELMONTE.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

Semantics: what's talent?

Not needing a lot of training to be top, or is the ability to train hard a talent on itself?

Then it's gotta be Pippo.

& not Fat Cat

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

No need for a thread because the answer is easy. Objectively and subjectively.
ALEJANDRO VALVERDE BELMONTE.

Says nobilis, the massive Valverde fan, in all caps

 

[Merckx index]

Merckx Index you believe the most talented rider must be the most versatile, others don't agree. There is no right answer.

I know you saw my previous post in this thread, when I drew a clear distinction between versatility and talent. In fact, in that post I named Contador and Cancellara, along with Valverde, as the most talented.

Repeat: I’m not saying Evans was the most talented. I’m saying I think he was the most complete, pretty good at every kind of riding. Though the OP asked about the most talented, someone brought up the subject of most complete, and I responded to that.

You're probably not very familiar with American baseball, but for those who are: Ben Zobrist is arguably the most versatile (your term I think is better for this than complete) player in the game today, able to play a variety of defensive positions well. He very definitely is not the most talented player.

But then, baseball is way ahead of other sports, able to define value quite precisely, and value reflects talent pretty closely.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Woops sorry MI.

 

[Ruudz0r]

Fysical talent: A Schleck, Danielson, Valverde
Mental talent (how hard can and will you work/how deep can you go etc): Armstrong, Contador, Voeckler