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Who wants the old Ronde circuit back?

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Who wants the old circuit of the Ronde back?

  • Couldn't care less, I just watch the Tour de France

    Votes: 0 0.0%

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Mar 15, 2013
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roundabout said:
Roelandts got a podium.

Chavanel got to complain.

+1

I'm probably one of the few that doesn't necessarily want the old parcours back. I think it's probably more the riders fault than the parcours'.

Two times the new route and two times in a row the strongest three guys on the podium
 
New course is terrible. Really miss the Muur. The thing that got me into the Classics was the fact that all the big names came out to play from 50km+ to the finish. The new route negates all of that spectacle and excitement.
 
Mar 15, 2013
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SafeBet said:
Which doesn't change the fact both races were dull.
The argument here is not that the current parcours awards unworthy riders. It's that it doesn't provide enough race action and entertainment.

Yeah I know, but which riders are supposed to bring action early in the race? Outsiders, because the big guns can easily wait untill the last couple of hills. In the past the big guns didn't start racing at 50k that much. Cancellara did it a few times nut most of the times the decision fell on the Muur and/or Bosberg which is almost at the same distance as Oude Kwaremont/ Paterberg these days.

Why was Roelandts the only guy that started racing at 35k from the finish? Why didn't Chava, GVA,EBH or some other outsider started racing early? Is that because of the parcours or just because they couldn't/didn't want to?

But maybe the new parcours is to hard, which make it easier for the best riders to go away at the end. But is it really a bad thing that it is easyer for the strongest riders to win?
 
Apr 20, 2012
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Lets be clear. Out of the 100 Flanders I have sean on the old route 99 were won on the Muur van Geraardsbergen.

With the new course 2 out of 2 are won on the Kwaremont.

What is the difference?

Yes, to bad of the Muur and the Bosberg and some others, but, come on. From racing point of view nothing changed.

It would be nice if the Muur would get some part in the Ronde though.
 
Is it too much to ask for to see the Tour of Flanders instead of the Tour of the Oude Kwaremont ?
Racing in circuit provides dull races because if you are a favorite you have to wait for the last lap (attacking before is pointless, it only gives more time for the chasers to get organized and if you can drop everybody on a climb, chances are you will be able to do it on the exact same climb later on). The saving grace for the WC is that by racing by national teams nobody really knows what to expect but even then, the decisive move is always made in the last couple of laps (NC can also be interesting but only because of distance + lack of depth of the field + teams of 20+ riders which are unusual circumstances). The new route can't take the riders out of their comfort zone like the WC can and therefore the only excitement is going to be the odd outsider attack from far out which is destined to fail and the last climb of the Kwaremont/Paterberg.
Last year was only slightly less dull due to the Langeveld crash and the fact that Ballan actively tried to shed Boonen in the run-in to Oudenaarde. Compare these last two editions with 2011 (arguably the best classic in recent history), 2010 (great mano a mano between two legends of the sport) and 2009 (epic troll by Devolder)... How can anyone favor the new route ?
 
Roderick said:
Yeah I know, but which riders are supposed to bring action early in the race? Outsiders, because the big guns can easily wait untill the last couple of hills. In the past the big guns didn't start racing at 50k that much. Cancellara did it a few times nut most of the times the decision fell on the Muur and/or Bosberg which is almost at the same distance as Oude Kwaremont/ Paterberg these days.

Why was Roelandts the only guy that started racing at 35k from the finish? Why didn't Chava, GVA,EBH or some other outsider started racing early? Is that because of the parcours or just because they couldn't/didn't want to?

But maybe the new parcours is to hard, which make it easier for the best riders to go away at the end. But is it really a bad thing that it is easyer for the strongest riders to win?

Yes, because they're already advantaged enough by being the strongest. The whole point of Classics-style racing is it's supposed to be hard to control. You have to be smart as well as be strong. Well, you can just be super strong, like Cancellara in 2010, but there are still opportunities for those that race smart. And if you're not the strongest on the day, then you should either be trying to do something with it, or sifted from the bunch so that the leaders have to work for themselves. While the decisive moves may typically have been made on the Muur, typically we had a much smaller group by the time we got there than we had with 20km to go today. Hell, before we got onto the final lap there was still a group of around 50 riders. Sitting in, not putting your nose in the wind once, making sure you're not placed TOO badly on the final lap and race for a good placement... it's not meant to be what the Classics are about.

Also, Molenberg, Taaienberg, Eikenberg, Berendries... these are big and historic climbs. They are totally wasted as one-pass-in-the-first-half-of-the-race climbs. They would be wasted in that spot anyway but when they do circuits so everybody's getting a look at conditions first before doing a last-lap-only attack plan, it's a total joke. You get more kilometres of action at Ardennes Classics sometimes.
 
Mar 15, 2013
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Libertine Seguros said:
Yes, because they're already advantaged enough by being the strongest. The whole point of Classics-style racing is it's supposed to be hard to control.

Not in my book. I like a race where the strongest guys end up in front eventually. It's almost like putting a really long decent after a HC-mountain to make sure enough guys have the chance to win

And if you're not the strongest on the day, then you should either be trying to do something with it, or sifted from the bunch so that the leaders have to work for themselves.

Like Roelandts did today, and it paid off big time. Whose fault is it that nobody else tried to escape?


While the decisive moves may typically have been made on the Muur, typically we had a much smaller group by the time we got there than we had with 20km to go today. Hell, before we got onto the final lap there was still a group of around 50 riders. Sitting in, not putting your nose in the wind once, making sure you're not placed TOO badly on the final lap and race for a good placement... it's not meant to be what the Classics are about.

Remember de Ronde 2011? I think everybody agrees it was a great race? There was also a group of 50 guys together on the Muur. BMC had even 7 riders there. And wo won that race? Nuyens, a guy you hadn't seen for a whole day

Also, Molenberg, Taaienberg, Eikenberg, Berendries... these are big and historic climbs. They are totally wasted as one-pass-in-the-first-half-of-the-race climbs. They would be wasted in that spot anyway but when they do circuits so everybody's getting a look at conditions first before doing a last-lap-only attack plan, it's a total joke. You get more kilometres of action at Ardennes Classics sometimes.

The Climbs you just described aren't really that enormous historic. The most historic of them all is Oude Kwaremont. Before 2012 the Oude Kwaremont was a bit wasted too. I agree that the 20k between Berendries and the first Oude Kwaremont are too long and I'm not really incredibly fond of the local circuit either. But putting Oude Kwaremont and Paterberg as the epicentrum of de Ronde is a good thing.
 
Roderick said:
Not in my book. I like a race where the strongest guys end up in front eventually. It's almost like putting a really long decent after a HC-mountain to make sure enough guys have the chance to win
So why don't they just have a time trial with a couple of hellingen in it and call it quits? That way, the strongest definitely wins, and you don't have to worry about that pesky unpredictability.
The Climbs you just described aren't really that enormous historic. The most historic of them all is Oude Kwaremont. Before 2012 the Oude Kwaremont was a bit wasted too. I agree that the 20k between Berendries and the first Oude Kwaremont are too long and I'm not really incredibly fond of the local circuit either. But putting Oude Kwaremont and Paterberg as the epicentrum of de Ronde is a good thing.
Putting Oude Kwaremont and Paterberg as the epicentre is not the problem. Putting them as the ONLY centre of any note is the problem. You could easily have a good route that made Oude Kwaremont and Paterberg into the focal points of the race. I'd still rather they have a more interesting route back to Oudenaarde, possibly using either Taaienberg or Eikenberg, than the crappy run-in they have at present, but there are lots of hellingen around there that they can use so that they could make the climbs they want to make the important ones into the focal points but not to the point of rendering all the other major climbs afterthoughts at best. And as I say, doing them 3 times just means that everybody watches each other on the first two to see who's ready for what on the third.

Also, it may have escaped your attention, but Chavanel had already been part of one strong move that had been pulled back by the time they got to the Muur in 2011.
 
Mar 15, 2013
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Also, it may have escaped your attention, but Chavanel had already been part of one strong move that had been pulled back by the time they got to the Muur in 2011.

Yeah but the point is that it came all together just before the Muur. You did have already an attractive race before that, but whose fault is it that this race was boring until the last times Oude Kwaremont? Why did no one of the outsiders attacked like Roelandts did?
And I don't really buy the whole "looking at each other on the first two rounds"-story. You can look at another rider on an other climb too. If some guy is struggling on a hill, you know that he's gonna have it even harder at the next couple of hills. It doesn't have to be the exact same hills to have that.
The biggest problem I see is that a lot of guys are apparently afraid of 3X Kwaremont + 3X Paterberg and just wait
 
Mar 15, 2013
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Netserk said:
The difference IMO was that the old route wasn't harder than the strongest riders had to force the selection. Now they will just wait for the last lap, and then the strongest will go and stay away.

But what about Paris-Roubaix. Apart from the punctures the race is even more straight forward. The strongest riders are up front after Arenberg, they pick up the early escapers and after each cobbles section a few riders are dropped. Then when the first group is only about 10-15 guys strong, the strongest man in the race attacks. And or he finishes solo, or a group of 3-5 of the strongest riders sprint for the win
 
Jul 24, 2011
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Roderick said:
You can ridiculise it as much as you want bu that doesn't change the fact that it's true

should have added that i didn mean to ridicule u
found it funny, simple as that :)

i like both circuits btw
i love how on the new parcours, the tension, the anticipation just builds and builds, and then suddenly BAAAAAAANG, race blown apart.

but i do miss the Kapelmuur
 
Libertine Seguros said:
Yes, because they're already advantaged enough by being the strongest. The whole point of Classics-style racing is it's supposed to be hard to control. You have to be smart as well as be strong. Well, you can just be super strong, like Cancellara in 2010, but there are still opportunities for those that race smart. And if you're not the strongest on the day, then you should either be trying to do something with it, or sifted from the bunch so that the leaders have to work for themselves. While the decisive moves may typically have been made on the Muur, typically we had a much smaller group by the time we got there than we had with 20km to go today. Hell, before we got onto the final lap there was still a group of around 50 riders. Sitting in, not putting your nose in the wind once, making sure you're not placed TOO badly on the final lap and race for a good placement... it's not meant to be what the Classics are about.

Also, Molenberg, Taaienberg, Eikenberg, Berendries... these are big and historic climbs. They are totally wasted as one-pass-in-the-first-half-of-the-race climbs. They would be wasted in that spot anyway but when they do circuits so everybody's getting a look at conditions first before doing a last-lap-only attack plan, it's a total joke. You get more kilometres of action at Ardennes Classics sometimes.

I agree with every word of this.:)
 
I can understand that the organisers want to make the most €€€ out of their race, but the way the parcours is designed now, doesn't help to make the race more attractive.
IMO, it would be better to place the trinity Oude Kwaremont-Paterberg-Koppenberg at 40-30km before the finish, followed by some easier climbs (Taaienberg, Eikenberg, Wolvenberg, Volkegemberg, Boigneberg,...plenty of opportunities) and some cobblestone sections (Mariaborrestraat, Kerkgate,Holleweg,...). That way the favourites have to attack from a bit further than they have to do now.
 
May 19, 2010
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I actually don't mind the course. At the end of the day, The strongest riders don't always have to make the move, you play to your strengths. Going into the race everyone knew if it was raced slow, It played into sagan's hands, If it was raced hard but without many attacks (as in fast paced but no pressure in the forms of attacks) it played into Fabian's hands.

Every outside favorite should of been launching attacks from 30-50 kms out. If they did it would of blow the race apart. This course has the potential to be amazing but if the riders don't actually race to win or take a chance it will always be like today.No parcours can change this.
 

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