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Who was the real winner of Flanders?

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Jul 14, 2009
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180mmCrank said:
I watched today and loved every minute of it. Boonen and Cancellara ripping up the field - just what a great bike race is meant to be about... I just enjoyed it. It's much the way I watch all bike racing.

If one of them gets caught for doping (I don't mean cocaine) then I will be gutted like many others. But I can't spend my time in 'did he or didn't he' type debates. I just don't see the point.

There are a bunch of people whose lives are dedicated to catching folks that cheat. I guess I believe they are doing the best they can - I know not everyone believes that but I'm not into conspiracy threories. I know they know more about catching cheats than I do!

Until then I will be watching replays of this classic race while thrashing out turbo sessions in my basement... until Paris Roubaix when I hope we get another classic... :)[/QUOTE
..................+1
 
fatandfast said:
The answer to your question is a knowledge of the sport and it's rules. Cancellara has won or placed lots already this year and is tested just for showing up. Yes to all of us his jump was super human and the way he put his head down after loosing contact with Boonen was like a comic book or some kind of Hollywood special effects. the guy is a great racer and a true talent. All the sour people that put all of cycling through a drug filter can't ruin an amazing ride by a great champion. The winner of every race is tested,with the way Cancellara rode he will be on a first name basis with the guy or girl holding his sample cup.

It's not binary. It's not a) that was a great ride by a winner and a true talent OR b) that was the ride of someone on dope.

It's most likely both. So (likely) was second place. And most of the guys in the top 20. The testing has been proved over and over and over again not to catch doped riders. It's almost meaningless in that regard.
 
Sep 8, 2009
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Meh...clean or not clean, they're clean to me until proven otherwise.

If his performance WAS due to the juice. I hope people do it more often, because it was quite the show.
 
I'd like to say that Cancellara, as well as Boonen & the rest of the peloton have a "medical program" so lets take away the debate from what is obvious & stop that ridiculous argument at all.
Cancellara has shown a "progressive" development, from being a pure TTer to a Classic Rider & now with his weight lost, he could be aiming some "week races"
but to believe he could ever become a GT contender with -let's say- a Ferrari program- is simply out from his reach-and he already knows that.
 
Jun 16, 2009
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burritogirl said:
you guys are pathetic. why is it that the folks who don't win always accuse? somebody is always going to be faster, someone is always going to win.

+1

Whenever someone wins we go accusing them of doping and trying to work out who was clean. It is kind of sad imo.
 
Jun 19, 2009
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hfer07 said:
I'd like to say that Cancellara, as well as Boonen & the rest of the peloton have a "medical program" so lets take away the debate from what is obvious & stop that ridiculous argument at all.
Cancellara has shown a "progressive" development, from being a pure TTer to a Classic Rider & now with his weight lost, he could be aiming some "week races"
but to believe he could ever become a GT contender with -let's say- a Ferrari program- is simply out from his reach-and he already knows that.

+1. Cancellara clearly knows what to do with his career and jeopardizing that for a Tour chance would be foolish on any program. As for the race it was also an excellent tactical team show for both Cervelo and Quickstep. Once the gap openned the other contenders waited for a spent Sky squad to mop it up. They waited too long and both Boonen and Spartacus had an established rythm. Unless 3 other strong guys in the peloton would have worked selflessly before the last 20Km; no one was catching them whether they were gassed or not. Fun race to watch.
 
Jul 11, 2009
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The real winner was cycling



















Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha HaHa Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha ................aaaaaaaaaahhhhhh
 
May 6, 2009
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Dr. Maserati said:
I agree and have said this before, it shows the complete lack of trust and faith most followers of Pro cycling have in the sport today.

The UCI has spent a whopping 13 million Euro ($17.5m) in just over 2 years on the Biological Passport -while it has potential- in its present form it is a PR piece - 5 riders have been 'suspended', yet no sanctions have been made against any of them!

I believe it will take another big police scandal and the removal of some of 'the old guard' within the sport - some UCI officials and DS's - before there is a proper change in how the sport is run.

If you ever decide to lead a coup and take over the UCI, you have my support and backing.
 
Apr 8, 2009
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Dr. Maserati said:
the complete lack of trust and faith most followers of Pro cycling have in the sport today.

Mmm? Not saying there aren't problems, but why don't you set up a poll for the above wording. My guess is that you will be lucky to get 20 people who agree to the above, by the end of the first week.

Compare that with the crowds at the side of the road for Flanders or any other classic or major event.

just a thought
 
davidg said:
Mmm? Not saying there aren't problems, but why don't you set up a poll for the above wording. My guess is that you will be lucky to get 20 people who agree to the above, by the end of the first week.

Compare that with the crowds at the side of the road for Flanders or any other classic or major event.

just a thought

So you think that just because people went out on hte roads, they don;t believe the riders are doped to the gills? The French have accepted doping as a necessary evil ofr decades.
 

Dr. Maserati

BANNED
Jun 19, 2009
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davidg said:
Mmm? Not saying there aren't problems, but why don't you set up a poll for the above wording. My guess is that you will be lucky to get 20 people who agree to the above, by the end of the first week.

Compare that with the crowds at the side of the road for Flanders or any other classic or major event.

just a thought
No need to set up a poll - out of 32 posters who have made comments on this threat 19 posters so far are more than suspicious of yesterdays performance or of top riders.
4 I put in a category of 'Innocent until proven guilty'.
5 said they were 'suspicious'.
4 I put in as 'Didn't say', 'Didn't want to say'.(I put you in that group)
1 poster was writing his account of riding the course.

As for people standing at the side of the road - plenty of people still go to watch WWF.
 
Sep 25, 2009
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there is no such thing as 'average fan' in those countries. there is perhaps wider awareness of the doping history in the sport. that id bet one euro on.


yet, if really interested in a sampling of some fan opinion in those 'cycling nations' read fan comments under the various articles in marca, la gazzetta, l'equipe and de telegraaf.

i personally don't see a big difference except the american fans who for some fall into two more polarized categories: very strong anti-doping or very strong fandom.
 
Jun 16, 2009
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Ferminal said:
Can anyone shed some light on the "average fan" in France, Belgium, Italy, Spain etc.

Do they have the same naivety which is inherent in the average Anglo?

you saying anglo's are very fandomised and can't see the "facts" about doping?
 
python said:
there is no such thing as 'average fan' in those countries. there is perhaps wider awareness of the doping history in the sport. that id bet one euro on.
...
i personally don't see a big difference except the american fans who for some fall into two more polarized categories: very strong anti-doping or very strong fandom.
I wonder why that is? I find it to be very strange. Either you find people that are too naive or the other extreme (Complete aware of Doping). The problem is that around me I only find naive people.:confused:
 
Dr. Maserati said:
No need to set up a poll - out of 32 posters who have made comments on this threat 19 posters so far are more than suspicious of yesterdays performance or of top riders.
4 I put in a category of 'Innocent until proven guilty'.
5 said they were 'suspicious'.
4 I put in as 'Didn't say', 'Didn't want to say'.(I put you in that group)
1 poster was writing his account of riding the course.

As for people standing at the side of the road - plenty of people still go to watch WWF.
Add one more into the suspicious category.

But, what is new. I think that anything coming from the Hog or Riis camp is totally fake to me, IMHO.

So no need to watch anything to know that.
 
auscyclefan94 said:
you saying anglo's are very fandomised and can't see the "facts" about doping?

I'm saying that if you're from one of the more modern entrants to the cycling world and haven't: been following the sport for decades, have a canny sense, or have lurked in deep dark places of the internet. It's unlikely that you will be exposed to enough "cycling/doping" culture to see what is going on.

It's very difficult to someone whose only exposure to cycling is through mainstream domestic media to develop a more complete understanding of professional cycling.

I was asking the question wondering whether this is the same in the traditional cycling nations - or does the greater exposure to all facets of cycling make them "more aware".
 
Feb 27, 2010
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Dr. Maserati said:
Or would it be better to say it is a lot more complicated then that?

I meant to say that when one rider is found guilty for doping or any other wrongdoings by any of cycling or whatever authorities (national or international) it is enough for me to consider them as dopers or cheaters.
But it is pointless to speculate who is doping or not without any evidence. No one gains anything with that.
 
python said:
there is no such thing as 'average fan' in those countries. there is perhaps wider awareness of the doping history in the sport. that id bet one euro on.

yet, if really interested in a sampling of some fan opinion in those 'cycling nations' read fan comments under the various articles in marca, la gazzetta, l'equipe and de telegraaf.

i personally don't see a big difference except the american fans who for some fall into two more polarized categories: very strong anti-doping or very strong fandom.


+1

There is no average fan in any country. And I should say the average person in any country doesn't know much about pro-cycling and would appear naive - even in Belgium! So to a very real extent it depends who you ask.


But in general North Americans tend to want to call things for what they are - they tend to be more black and white in their thinking - and of course as with all generalisations there are many N Americans who are not like this. With respect to doping/cheating I think you would find a similar attitude in the UK. So it doesn't surprise me to find that you get polarised views in these countries. Something like ... doping is cheating... any cyclist that dopes is a cheat ... you can only win if you dope... all winning cyclists are cheats... the whole sport is rotten.

I think you will find more generally in Europe a broader perspective, one that takes in the whole sport and it's history... and less of a desire to judge the sport just on doping. An acceptance of the good and the bad as part of the theatre of the sport. They are very different perspectives on what constitutes healthy competition. It is a mistake to think of this as naivety.

Cultural difference plays a big part in how people make sense of their values and how it informs behaviour. Just arranging to meet someone for dinner at 7:30 ... see what wildly different expectations different nationalities have about what time they should actually turn up! If they turn up at all! If you are reading this going what's this guy on about "7:30 for dinner means 7:30" you might be N American and might think all Spanish, Italian, French etc are incredibly rude.

It's what makes the World a colourful place to be!