Who will be this season's Radioshack GT GC Leader

[Cobblestoned]

I have thousands of posts in this forum. If you did not spend all your time trolling The Clinic, you might have noticed. So far this year, I have not had time to watch any racing; hence I have not posted much here.

If you have the time for clinic but not for Professional road racing-forum, then this is really sad for you.
You should perhaps change your priorities or -other choice- just leave your emotions where they belong.
But of course I know that all RS/RSriders-threads in here are a kind of Trojan for some usual suspects from clinic.

btw, RS and Leipheimer had a strong start into the season. I think you missed that.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

I think bruyneel said earlier this year brajkovic would be their designated man. another recipie for failure

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

ya that was funny but also kind of the truth. lets hope 1 year with the hog hasn't killed that tiago already.

i hope he does well in GT's but the truth is he is yet to ride one. even tho he has already top 10'd the volta at a very young age more then once. even while doing some silly tactical errors.

the problem is being good at the volta is a sign of GT potential but it doesn't mean anything. just look at tondo. . . even tho his volta win wasn't the strongest ever imo. after all second place that year was candido barbosa

more impressive to me was how machado did this in a field full of doping while he was clean I truly believe. I think he has incredible potential.

 

[BroDeal]

If you have the time for clinic but not for Professional road racing-forum, then this is really sad for you.
You should perhaps change your priorities or -other choice- just leave your emotions where they belong.
But of course I know that all RS/RSriders-threads in here are a kind of Trojan for some usual suspects from clinic.

btw, RS and Leipheimer had a strong start into the season. I think you missed that.

Making a few random posts to the Clinic takes little time compared to watching a live feed. At this time I prefer to spend my free time on my bike, something you wouldn't know anything about.

Perhaps you should change your priorities since all you seem to do here is write idiotic, trolling posts based on lies, blind hope, and moonbeams in The Clinic.

I will place the call right now. Leecheimer will be nothing at any GT he does this year.

 

[Cobblestoned]

Making a few random posts to the Clinic takes little time compared to watching a live feed. At this time I prefer to spend my free time on my bike, something you wouldn't know anything about.

Perhaps you should change your priorities since all you seem to do here is write idiotic, trolling posts based on lies, blind hope, and moonbeams in The Clinic.

I will place the call right now. Leecheimer will be nothing at any GT he does this year.

I did nice 3h in 6°C and rain today. That was nice.
Especially the shower and coffee after that.

Whats your definition of "be nothing at any GT" ?

 

[mwbyrd]

I'd like to see Horner get a chance. I think he would have been top 5 at last year's Tour if he hadn't been helping LA.

 

[Parrulo]

I'd like to see Horner get a chance. I think he would have been top 5 at last year's Tour if he hadn't been helping LA.

serious? horner top 5 last year? do you really believe that he was stronger then any of last year's top 5? that were:
1st-contador
2nd-shleck
3rd-menchov
4th-sanchez
5th-jurgen

hell even 6th- gesink and 7th - rodriguez.

you really believe that the guy could top 5? imo the only reason he got into the top 10 was cus of the breakaways. . . . and thats it. besides he will be 39 or 40 next year. . . i don't think there is a need to explain this part

the hog will be much better off by takings his chances with some fresh blood, no pun intended

btw i think horner is getting the same kind of hype canc did but smaller ofc. canc dominated last years cobble classics therefore many people say he is the best this year. and boonen will just be second again. but if you look at previous years canc doesn't even makes the selection every year(not cus he lacks the skill to do so but its not only bad luck), while boonen does.


the same thing happened to horner. he top 10'd a tour a bit out of luck and for some reason some people start to believe that he can actually win the tour even tho he is over 9000 years old.

sorry for going a bit off topic. i just don't really get the horner hypewagon

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Horner climbed to Avoriaz as quickly as the leaders, but was over four minutes down at the base. But then, if he hadn't dropped that time he wouldn't have been allowed to get 6 minutes back in the stage to Pau, so it's swings and roundabouts. He may have clung on to the top 10 from not waiting, but saying he would have been four minutes better than he was is a fallacy.

 

[jaylew]

I don't think Horner could have gone top 5, but I also don't think the only reason he was in the top 10 was because of the time he gained in that break, which I've heard said here a few times.

As was already mentioned, he certainly lost a bunch of time working for Lance during the 1st 2/3(?) of the race, but if he had been sitting in the top 10, it's unlikely the break would have been given that much leash. I'm guessing would have finished somewhere in the 8-13 range had the team been working for him rather than LA, so his 10th seems fairly accurate to me.

Edit: looks like LS beat me to some of this

 

[Oldman]

I'd like to see Horner get a chance. I think he would have been top 5 at last year's Tour if he hadn't been helping LA.

He's had much debated speculation on his chances and the consensus seemed to be that was the best he could hope for. That said it's doubtful RS would project him as their number 1 when it'd be a hard sell to sponsors (if they care-that's hard to tell).

 

[flicker]

He's had much debated speculation on his chances and the consensus seemed to be that was the best he could hope for. That said it's doubtful RS would project him as their number 1 when it'd be a hard sell to sponsors (if they care-that's hard to tell).

Definitely Kloeden or Leipheimer are the guys for radio shack in the Tour.
Machado for the Vuelta, Giro, who knows? Maybe the Giro, a guy like Horner can hang with the bad boys in the Dolomites. I would bet a top ten for Horner in the Giro, barring crashes. As far as advertising dollars the Giro is a no sell for any American corporation, it is simply not watched here, nothing to do with the ToC.

 

[mewmewmew13]

I'm thinking that Horner probably had his best year ever last year. It remains to be seen if he can continue, as he has said he just feels like he's getting better with age...I think maybe a decent year this year with some luck, but not top 5 for a GT. (top 10 could be...)

Brajkovic's name is in the running IMO and it's obvious that Johan thinks highly of him, but it may be that he doesn't have enough years' experience behind him to be a successful GT leader.

Leipheimer , I think, will be dead in the water this year. Done. ...It sure would be nice to see Klodi get his final? chance to finish what he has started in the TdF, even if he needs to play co-captain with Yani to get it done.

 

[BroDeal]

Whats your definition of "be nothing at any GT" ?

What has Lamprey Leipheimer done in the last two years other than beat up on U.S. domestic pros. He is done.

 

[kurtinsc]

What has Lamprey Leipheimer done in the last two years other than beat up on U.S. domestic pros. He is done.

Not that I rate Levi that highly anymore... but he's still serviceable in some races. If the hills aren't too horrible and there's a decent sized time trial, he can put forward a decent result.

He just got 3rd in the Ruta del Sol for example.

Right now he's a guy who can get top 5 in a 2.1 or 2.HC event with a decent TT and moderate climbing, a top 10 in a PT event of that nature (see TDS last year), and a top 15 in a grand tour.

While not like he was before... a rider like that does have some uses. Just not as a GT leader.

 

[Angliru]

Not that I rate Levi that highly anymore... but he's still serviceable in some races. If the hills aren't too horrible and there's a decent sized time trial, he can put forward a decent result.

He just got 3rd in the Ruta del Sol for example.

Right now he's a guy who can get top 5 in a 2.1 or 2.HC event with a decent TT and moderate climbing, a top 10 in a PT event of that nature (see TDS last year), and a top 15 in a grand tour.

While not like he was before... a rider like that does have some uses. Just not as a GT leader.

Sounds to me like he should be stepping aside so that the younger Brajkovic and Machado and can gain experience battling with the rest of the upcoming stage race specialists. He would be better served using his experience in mentoring their future leaders instead of pursuing an invisible 10-20th place in a grand tour gc. There is little chance that Leipheimer will win any grand tour stage that is not a time trial and him getting away in a solo breakaway is so contrary to his riding style.

 

[kurtinsc]

Sounds to me like he should be stepping aside so that the younger Brajkovic and Machado and can gain experience battling with the rest of the upcoming stage race specialists. He would be better served using his experience in mentoring their future leaders instead of pursuing an invisible 10-20th place in a grand tour gc. There is little chance that Leipheimer will win any grand tour stage that is not a time trial and him getting away in a solo breakaway is so contrary to his riding style.

I have no idea if he's the mentoring type. I can see Horner helping a younger guy along, but I'm not so sure with Levi.

I'd think Levi could still be brought to GT's as an insurance policy even if he's not really able to help a younger guy along. Levi can do his thing on his own, hanging on to the lead group then falling off at some point before the finish and try for a 9th-15th finish. I don't think it costs a team without a true threat for overall victory much to use a spot on him to do that. I just don't think they should focus on helping him do that either... just let him have a free ride and identifiy the smaller 1-week races dominated by TT's where you work for Levi.

 

[greatking88]

Deignan is going for the GC in the Giro, he's not going to the tour. If he can keep himself healthy and fit early season, i think he can get a top 10 in the giro and a stage win.

 

[Ferminal]

...only if he gets in a nice break again.

Contador, Anton, Rodriguez, Scarponi, Nibali, Menchov, Kreuziger are all certain to finish ahead of him if they complete the race.

So that means just three of Rujano, Sella, Serpa, Sastre, Lovkvist, Kashechkin, Machado, Gadret, Cunego, Di Luca, Arroyo? Sinkewitz?... no doubt others who I'm missing/haven't yet been confirmed (more Geox?). Plus whoever else pops up over the three weeks.

I'd say top20 would be a more reasonable goal but no certainty for sure. If I had to pick it I would say 25-35th (if he tries to get a good GC time) as it's more than likely that he will be working for Machado too.

 

[greatking88]

...only if he gets in a nice break again.

Contador, Anton, Rodriguez, Scarponi, Nibali, Menchov, Kreuziger are all certain to finish ahead of him if they complete the race.

So that means just three of Rujano, Sella, Serpa, Sastre, Lovkvist, Kashechkin, Machado, Gadret, Cunego, Di Luca, Arroyo? Sinkewitz?... no doubt others who I'm missing/haven't yet been confirmed (more Geox?). Plus whoever else pops up over the three weeks.

I'd say top20 would be a more reasonable goal but no certainty for sure. If I had to pick it I would say 25-35th (if he tries to get a good GC time) as it's more than likely that he will be working for Machado too.

Your probably right in all truth, its quite depressing looking at that list, half of them have quite shady pasts..
Anyway hope Deignan can climb well and we ll see how he goes.

 

[Galic Ho]

Brajkovic has the best upside. He won the Dauphine which is comparable to Horner's Pays Basque win. Brajkovic has to be given the chance to succeed or fail at the Tour, not ride in service of Leipheimer who hasn't done much in a grand tour in 2 years. Leipheimer has stated his goals for the season and if I recall correctly they're all domestic races! Kloden is a paradox. With Armstrong getting intimate with the pavement over and over again and falling out of contention one would have thought Kloden or Leipheimer would've been next in line to carry the team leadership at the Tour but instead it was Horner who was the strongest. Unfortunately he is also the oldest of the 3 vets so to expect continued production like last year is a roll of the dice. Bruyneel I recall has stated that it's time to give Brajkovic leadership at the Tour so we'll see how he does. The presence of LA really set his development back in grand tour racing about 2 years.

In the 09 Giro, Horner was in very good form. Alas, he broke a bone in his leg and was put out. Even worse was his job was pulling LAnce around Italy. Come the Tour in 09, Kloden was strong from day 1. His job, pull Lance aroudn France and pray that AC slowed down enough so the coup de etat could eventuate. I thought and still do think, that in 09 Lance should not have been given an Astana spot at the Tour. He wasn't good enough (yes I know he came 3rd but he burned through a whole team doing it, AC did it alone with no domestiques helping him) from what I saw. Kloden climbed better and his chrono was far stronger. Horner was stronger in 09 but missed a team spot. I thought he deserved Lances.

The problem with all of this? COnflicts of interest. The few guys who could lead lack the nads to stand up and lead. Janez deserves a chance because the other guys have squandered theirs and are either:

1. Too old
2. Too senile and decrepid to realise when they are leader and gun it
3. Cannot stay upright
4. Have a bad day every now and then (Levi in 09 Giro and 2010TdF).

The one benefit is they have proven to be loyal domestiques. They should be told Janez is getting help everyday in the Tour. Every day. Have Popovich or Horner help him, maybe Paulinho. Let Kloden plod along and hope Levi can stay upright. God knows a man nicknamed Bottle won't be doing anything stellar to try and place on the podium...he'll just suck wheels. To those who don't agree, go watch last years ToC. It was obvious it was between Zabriskie and Rogers...Levi just doens't seem to care or be willing to do enough to win these days.

 

[Galic Ho]

You go through such a big list of ages of gt contenders and don’t include Samuel Sanchez. Jeez. Some people just never learn.

Sorry, my bad. Samu is 32. He's one of my favourites up there with Menchov, Cuddles, AC and of course the best of the lot...Valverde.

The fact that all the lists that exclude Samu, have JVDB or Gesink or both, is one of the reasons i find it difficult to like those 2.

DITO but not for the reason you said. I just don't think too heavily of them. To Dekker Tiffosi's credit he did not even state Gesink would win a Tour this year in another thread this past week. Other people did but he didn't...I think he said Gesink would get 5th.

Seriously. Samu is clearly better than half of that list, and arguably better than a further 3rd.

The fact that people think of the likes of Kreuziger, Sella, Anton, VDB when naming contenders but dont think of Samu is absolutely mindblowing.

I was only listing people who would potentially top 10. My top 5 GC guys have Samu in it. I simply forgot to put him in. Guy can podium in any GC he enters. He's around Evans and Menchov as far as I am concerned. Basso I rate a bit behind them...but that is just me.

Some people are going to be in for a surprise in July. Probably in the Giro as well with Scarponi and the classics with Haussler. If the commentators dont mention someone, they then could pretty much surpass 90% of the chosen contenders in the mountains and some people wouldnt notice them.
.

Hence why I immediately changed my Giro top 5 predictions. I don't even think Nibali will make the top 5...Scarponi I don't see not making the top 5. Haussler has a ton of support now, if only Cavendish could avoid running into him, maybe Heinrich would win a lot more often rather than hitting the asphalt.

 

[Galic Ho]

I get your point, but we should also point out that it isn't a matter of Brajkovic or bust in terms of prospects with more than a year in them; Tiago Machado is 25, and in Michał Kwiatkowski they have an enormous prospect on their hands that Unzué would have had if he hadn't had demands for Latin American presence - he's huge on the guy.

No, they're not proven. Kwiatkowski may be allowed to do the Vuelta if that - but Machado could feasibly lead the Giro or Vuelta team, but the team should give him the freedom to hold on as long as he can, then let him come in with the autobus and hunt stages once he can't.

Not that it matters, since Radioshack will be over as of next year, Kwiatkowski will probably wind up back with Unzué and Machado will likely be a decent prospect on the open market.

All good points. I agree, the Shack's sponsorship will end this season and the team will likely disband. I only mentioned Janez because he did well in the Dauphine last season. I'd like to see all the young guys given a chance. Go for stage wins and blood them young, aka, let the new guys have a chance. One last song for the old band is just asking too much IMO. Lance has had two final songs now, I fail to see how giving precedence to the other old squad will do anyone favours. I don't believe Bruyneel is an idiot, I think he'll give them a chance.

The other thing someone mentioned was the ability of the known GC guys at Shack and potential ones to fire. There are just too many question marks. Too many unknowns and also known riders who have a bad day. Best bet may be to just let everyone go do whatever they want (Horner, Levi and Kloden because they do have bad days that cost them time). I do however believe Janez should have 1 or 2 guys to help him on the big climbs and if he can hold on good. If not...well at least they tried. I'm not expecting a miracle.

 

[gregrowlerson]

In the 09 Giro, Horner was in very good form. Alas, he broke a bone in his leg and was put out. Even worse was his job was pulling LAnce around Italy. Come the Tour in 09, Kloden was strong from day 1. His job, pull Lance aroudn France and pray that AC slowed down enough so the coup de etat could eventuate. I thought and still do think, that in 09 Lance should not have been given an Astana spot at the Tour. He wasn't good enough (yes I know he came 3rd but he burned through a whole team doing it, AC did it alone with no domestiques helping him) from what I saw. Kloden climbed better and his chrono was far stronger. Horner was stronger in 09 but missed a team spot. I thought he deserved Lances.

The problem with all of this? COnflicts of interest. The few guys who could lead lack the nads to stand up and lead. Janez deserves a chance because the other guys have squandered theirs and are either:

1. Too old
2. Too senile and decrepid to realise when they are leader and gun it
3. Cannot stay upright
4. Have a bad day every now and then (Levi in 09 Giro and 2010TdF).

The one benefit is they have proven to be loyal domestiques. They should be told Janez is getting help everyday in the Tour. Every day. Have Popovich or Horner help him, maybe Paulinho. Let Kloden plod along and hope Levi can stay upright. God knows a man nicknamed Bottle won't be doing anything stellar to try and place on the podium...he'll just suck wheels. To those who don't agree, go watch last years ToC. It was obvious it was between Zabriskie and Rogers...Levi just doens't seem to care or be willing to do enough to win these days.

Sorry, but I can't agree about LA not deserving a spot on the '09 team. A strong team can certainly help a rider, but one still needs excellent form to podium in the TDF. I would have loved Kloden to podium instead in '09, but he still did achieve a very respectable 6th place finish (burned through a whole team?). A major reason for that was his crack late on stage 17.....which had nothing to do with LA - unless it took too much out of him having to pace the old man up Verbier on stage 15! And regarding that, I don't think Kloden lost much time having to do that (unlike when he paced Vino on a major stage in '07), as he wouldn't have been close to AC or even AS on that MTF. Lance's main competition for that final podium spot was FS, and he didn't have the strength to distance LA on Ventoux. Also, didn't Kloden only place 9th in the long ITT? I don't recall LA being far behind him. Without LA on that team I think that Kloden probably still would have ended up off the podium - as much as I hate to say that. I hope that Klodi "plods" along in 2011.....very quickly! And somehow onto the podium.

 

[Galic Ho]

Sorry, but I can't agree about LA not deserving a spot on the '09 team. A strong team can certainly help a rider, but one still needs excellent form to podium in the TDF. I would have loved Kloden to podium instead in '09, but he still did achieve a very respectable 6th place finish (burned through a whole team?). A major reason for that was his crack late on stage 17.....which had nothing to do with LA - unless it took too much out of him having to pace the old man up Verbier on stage 15! And regarding that, I don't think Kloden lost much time having to do that (unlike when he paced Vino on a major stage in '07), as he wouldn't have been close to AC or even AS on that MTF. Lance's main competition for that final podium spot was FS, and he didn't have the strength to distance LA on Ventoux. Also, didn't Kloden only place 9th in the long ITT? I don't recall LA being far behind him. Without LA on that team I think that Kloden probably still would have ended up off the podium - as much as I hate to say that. I hope that Klodi "plods" along in 2011.....very quickly! And somehow onto the podium.

You missed some great threads in July 2009 around here and especially afterwards. Most people here were on Contadors side. Lots of people on this forum called Lance's behaviour and the strange happenings in Astana during the 09 TdF months before they happened. Lance tried to turn the entire team against AC and it worked. Even AC's one loyal domestique Bruyneel let race took a contract at the Shack. He's still there. AC basically fended for himself and Caisse d'Epargne guys watched his back when he needed. Look at what happened to Kloden...he blew up badly in 2009. Who benefitted? Lance no less. Coincidence? I don't believe in them. It was all planned by Lance and Johan to try and steal a win from AC. Note the effort they put to try and get Lance yellow. AC would be obliged to protect him. Note AC on Arcalis...he fought back and the team chucked a hissy fit. It wasn't "The Plan."

Many people here said the peloton was going a bit too easy at times to allow Lance to get some free time. You can be the judge on that. Just like the Milan street circuit in the 2009 Giro no race day. That was another trick to allow Lance a breather. Note what happened to Lance and Wigans in 2010. They got spanked. Nobody held back last year. So what happened? 2009 was different strategy wise than 2010, much different. BroDeal and other here thought LAnce and Wigans would both lose a lot of time. Bad bike handling skills saw to that...though some people did hypothesis that Lance deliberately fell, thus creating a valid, legit and credible excuse for not being up there.

Before the Tour, Lance did not deserve a spot on the Astana 2009 TdF squad. He hadn't earnt it. That was all I was saying. Of course he did well, but he destroyed a good team in the process and damaged his reputation. Many people saw his behaviour in 2009 and didn't like it, made them question. All I was saying dude.

 

[gregrowlerson]

You missed some great threads in July 2009 around here and especially afterwards. Most people here were on Contadors side. Lots of people on this forum called Lance's behaviour and the strange happenings in Astana during the 09 TdF months before they happened. Lance tried to turn the entire team against AC and it worked. Even AC's one loyal domestique Bruyneel let race took a contract at the Shack. He's still there. AC basically fended for himself and Caisse d'Epargne guys watched his back when he needed. Look at what happened to Kloden...he blew up badly in 2009. Who benefitted? Lance no less. Coincidence? I don't believe in them. It was all planned by Lance and Johan to try and steal a win from AC. Note the effort they put to try and get Lance yellow. AC would be obliged to protect him. Note AC on Arcalis...he fought back and the team chucked a hissy fit. It wasn't "The Plan."

Many people here said the peloton was going a bit too easy at times to allow Lance to get some free time. You can be the judge on that. Just like the Milan street circuit in the 2009 Giro no race day. That was another trick to allow Lance a breather. Note what happened to Lance and Wigans in 2010. They got spanked. Nobody held back last year. So what happened? 2009 was different strategy wise than 2010, much different. BroDeal and other here thought LAnce and Wigans would both lose a lot of time. Bad bike handling skills saw to that...though some people did hypothesis that Lance deliberately fell, thus creating a valid, legit and credible excuse for not being up there.

Before the Tour, Lance did not deserve a spot on the Astana 2009 TdF squad. He hadn't earnt it. That was all I was saying. Of course he did well, but he destroyed a good team in the process and damaged his reputation. Many people saw his behaviour in 2009 and didn't like it, made them question. All I was saying dude.

I think that I read a lot of those interesting threads/posts about a year ago. I went through a phase when I googled Kloden, trying to find out about his past results and stuff, and yeah, came across all the arguments about AC's attack on stage 17, and that it did or did not cost Klodi a podium spot. I think that AC was just unlucky in that instance that his teammate just happened to be the weakest guy out of the 4 - and how was he to know that? And why shouldn't he try to get more time on the brothers?

At that time I think there was some realistic thought towards Astana filling the podium in Paris, but this was based around Kloden and Armstrong spanking AS in the 41 km TT which did not eventuate anyway. And even if it did then AS would have ridden hard and gained at least a minute on Armstrong up Venteoux, and more than that on Kloden.

I agree with you about LA and Bruyneel turning everyone against AC in the hope that LA could with the Tour. LA is not a particularly nice man! But he is still a great rider. Perhaps he should have created his own team there and then (RS) where he would have been clearly the number 1 rider on the road and off it, allowing Astana to remain as they mostly had been from '08?

I agree that it was a joke when AC rode away on Arcalis and the team cracked it with him.

As for Kloden, did he really blow up badly? I was surprised (and impressed) that he kept with the top 3 for so long on stage 17. His TT wasn't that great and then he struggled a bit on Venteoux. But was that really because he had to help LA earlier?

It is an interesting theory about the peleton taking it easier in '09 to '10, and that this shows in the performances of Armstrong and Wiggins. Maybe. Though it's also possible that age had just finally caught up properly with Armstrong and that Wiggins simply had poor form (I have no opinion on this, just raising the possibility). But the peleton took it easy at times in 2010 too, what with the Cancerella farce on stage 2 or 3 and the joke of a day in the Pyrenees when they went over the 4 Cols, but didn't race very hard (blame the parcours more than the riders).

Last year RS's GC chances were mostly over after the cobblestones, so the LA falling over deliberately thing is not completely out of the question. And clearly after the cobblestones (a stage where the team had planned to dominate) the team morale was not there, which may go into more clinic related issues. It's partly why I think that the TTT is so important to some riders this year, particularly at RS. If they do well there then Kloden could look to finish a lot higher than 14th.