Who would you most like to see get exposed or confess to being a doper?

[Avoriaz]

Kind of agree with Martin Vickers and what he says about this thread.

However, if I had to choose anyone, I'd say Richie McCaw

or maybe Eddie the Eagle Edwards, so we could have an argument that maybe sometimes PEDs are useless...

 

[martinvickers]

Kind of agree with Martin Vickers and what he says about this thread.

However, if I had to choose anyone, I'd say Richie McCaw

or maybe Eddie the Eagle Edwards, so we could have an argument that maybe sometimes PEDs are useless...

Be careful agreeing with me, A. I'm a bad influence...

 

[Briant_Gumble]

Pretty confident on Bolt, too, having seen analysis of him - he's simply a prodigy?

What analysis gives you confidence in Bolt of all people?

The timetable of off season testing in Jamaica in 2008/2009? Or the massive gains made in his 100m time in the Olympic year.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Now that is a more sensible question, LS. and, in a break from my usual policy of not discussing hunches, let me say that on Jeter, I agree 100%.

But does it require an extra thread? The whole Clinic is one big discussion of that very topic.

And LS, don't kid yourself, there are people in here who DO want there to be doping. Who would actually be disappointed if, by some logic defying means, they proved they were clean.

Of course, since proving a negative is a logical impossiblity, these clinicians can rest easy...

I never said there weren't such people. And I can confess that at times when I see something difficult to believe and don't want to believe in it, I can be the same.

I was just saying that I was going to go down the route of picking people where the suspicion isn't just "this guy's achievements are pretty unreal" but "how the hell has this person managed to avoid the hit?" In cycling parlance, it would be picking on Ángel Vicioso or Andreas Klöden rather than Chris Froome. Hence why I picked Jeter. There's way too much poorly-disguised smoke around her (and her attitudes and statements) for me not to believe there is fire.

 

[the sceptic]

Youre right Martin, Bolt hasnt increased his power. Its just everyone else that stopped doping in 2009

 

[The Hitch]

That's not actually true. Gay, at the least, is almost certainly clean. Pretty confident on Bolt, too, having seen analysis of him - he's simply a prodigy.

Me too. Im also really confident on Lance Armstrong. I saw analysis that he trained really hard on the same climbs the Tour de France uses, and that he was a prodigy from a very young age.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

I thought they were poridgy myself.

 

[Netserk]

But let's just say a bust on Blake, or Frazer-Price, would not shock me.

Known doper. Have served a drug ban.

 

[martinvickers]

I never said there weren't such people. And I can confess that at times when I see something difficult to believe and don't want to believe in it, I can be the same.

I was just saying that I was going to go down the route of picking people where the suspicion isn't just "this guy's achievements are pretty unreal" but "how the hell has this person managed to avoid the hit?" In cycling parlance, it would be picking on Ángel Vicioso or Andreas Klöden rather than Chris Froome. Hence why I picked Jeter. There's way too much poorly-disguised smoke around her (and her attitudes and statements) for me not to believe there is fire.

Well, for me the key problem with Jeter is Mark Block, pure and simple. He's like Bruyneel only worse - Block simply = doping. As did, for example, Eric De Bruin, Trevor Graham, etc.

Now there are always exceptions. Ato Boldon was very likely clean, but his coach, and his partner Maurice Greene, were dirty as hell. And worked out very early that it had to be kept from Boldon. Greene all but admitted it. And the letter Boldon sent to his coach after Greene's partial confession left one in very little doubt about Boldon's stance, about Greene, and about their mutual feelings on the matter.

Every sport has the odd Moncoutie, I suppose.

for the record, I'd like Gatlin out of sport for good. He's already had too many chances...

 

[Netserk]

@martinvickers

Just because I suspect a lot of athletes to be doping, doesn't mean that I want them to be doping. IF Messi dopes - which I think he does - then I would like him to be busted.

Wanting suspicious athletes to be busted if doping =/= Wanting suspicious athletes to be doping.

Okay?

 

[martinvickers]

Known doper. Have served a drug ban.

He got a VERY easy ride from the fed, did he not - three months or something? Some unlikely technicality.

Look we all know about how useless dope testing is in jamaica - Hell, GB are banking on it for the future with Delano Williams and Zharnell Hughes! Their own programme with HAA and Bolarinwa's obviously not worth crap. </attempt at humour>

With Blake, can't help but note how he is completely leaving behind sprinters who were dropping him in the youth and junior ranks. And he's built like a tank.

And you know what - he seems a really really nice guy. It'll be a ****er if/when he's caught. But if he is doping, I hope to god he is caught, and thrown out for good, sharpish.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

@martinvickers

Just because I suspect a lot of athletes to be doping, doesn't mean that I want them to be doping. IF Messi dopes - which I think he does - then I would like him to be busted.

Wanting suspicious athletes to be busted if doping =/= Wanting suspicious athletes to be doping.

Okay?

Thank you. I couldn't have said it better, in fact I couldn't even be bothered saying it at all. But my sentiments exactly.

 

[martinvickers]

@martinvickers

Just because I suspect a lot of athletes to be doping, doesn't mean that I want them to be doping. IF Messi dopes - which I think he does - then I would like him to be busted.

Wanting suspicious athletes to be busted if doping =/= Wanting suspicious athletes to be doping.

Okay?

Of course. My point is that there are those in these hallowed halls who DO want it. If you don't believe your among them, that's good enough for me. We've had no run in to make me think otherwise....

 

[martinvickers]

Thank you. I couldn't have said it better, in fact I couldn't even be bothered saying it at all. But my sentiments exactly.

Really, DW? Really?

 

[martinvickers]

Me too. Im also really confident on Lance Armstrong. I saw analysis that he trained really hard on the same climbs the Tour de France uses, and that he was a prodigy from a very young age.

Erm, the sarcasm kinda fails the test, in that I don't remember Lance being any such thing.

 

[Fausto's Schnauzer]

 

[benzwire]

Indurain. I hate that he gets a pass due to "nice" personality.

 

[The Hitch]

In cycling, dopers make non dopers look like amateurs. (eg see the fastest times up Alpe d huez,).Theres no comparison. When epo was introduced, donkeys began to outclimb with ease the greatest talents on the planet.

Since you believe in Gay and Bolt, what you are saying is that in athletics the reverse is true, dopers get absolutely creamed by the non dopers (Bolt compared to Greene, Montgomery, Lewis, Gatlin, Johnson).

So what would you see as an explanation of that. Do drugs not work on 100m runners?

 

[iejeecee]

In cycling, dopers make non dopers look like amateurs. (eg see the fastest times up Alpe d huez,).Theres no comparison. When epo was introduced, donkeys began to outclimb with ease the greatest talents on the planet.

Since you believe in Gay and Bolt, what you are saying is that in athletics the reverse is true, dopers get absolutely creamed by the non dopers (Bolt compared to Greene, Montgomery, Lewis, Gatlin, Johnson).

So what would you see as an explanation of that. Do drugs not work on 100m runners?

Gatlin was actually faster after he returned from his drug ban.
So yeah Drugs in 100m makes you slower

I suggest Martin Vickers educates himself a little, for example

Have you watched e.g. 9.79 from ESPN 30 for 30
Any random interview with Victor Conte on Usain Bolt?
(this one is long, but good
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azzhD2QJ8B0)

 

[martinvickers]

In cycling, dopers make non dopers look like amateurs. (eg see the fastest times up Alpe d huez,).Theres no comparison. When epo was introduced, donkeys began to outclimb with ease the greatest talents on the planet.

Since you believe in Gay and Bolt, what you are saying is that in athletics the reverse is true, dopers get absolutely creamed by the non dopers (Bolt compared to Greene, Montgomery, Lewis, Gatlin, Johnson).

So what would you see as an explanation of that. Do drugs not work on 100m runners?

It's not so much i 'believe' in them, as i have seen a lot more evidence for their bona fides than say a blake - and I would be a lot less surprised if bolt doped than if Gay or in the past boldon had.

As for the drugs,They work, but the modern (post 2000) margins are not anything like so obvious as in endurance sports - Sprinting had it's "EPO" moment a long time ago. I think conte estimated a good 'regime' could give you 2 tenths - which would make Bolt a natural 9.79 i.e. still faster than the vast bulk of dopers.

 

[gregod]

Jarmila Kratochvílová.

great answer! you win the internets!

Usain Bolt *
Micheal Phelps *
Stephen Roche *
Micheal Johnson *
Mark Spitz *
Miguel Indurain *
Yohan Blake *
Rafael Nadal *
Bernard Hinault *
Asafa Powell *
Tyson Gay *
Evander Holyfield *
Mike Tyson *

mark spitz? as far as i know the only doping he did was marijuana.

...<snip>...
. Sensitive territory but if someone could confess to supplying Flo Jo that would be great.

her husband al joyner has denied it. but when asked directly about doping her sister-in-law's alleged doping, jackie joyner-kersee gave a non-denial denial.

 

[Briant_Gumble]

It's not so much i 'believe' in them, as i have seen a lot more evidence for their bona fides than say a blake - and I would be a lot less surprised if bolt doped than if Gay or in the past boldon had.

As for the drugs,They work, but the modern (post 2000) margins are not anything like so obvious as in endurance sports - Sprinting had it's "EPO" moment a long time ago. I think conte estimated a good 'regime' could give you 2 tenths - which would make Bolt a natural 9.79 i.e. still faster than the vast bulk of dopers.

Conte says he thinks anabolic steroids can take 2-3 tenths off your time but in the interview a couple of posts up he says he thinks the Jamaicans are on 7 or 8 different drugs so more than just AAS.

 

[The Hitch]

I think conte estimated a good 'regime' could give you 2 tenths - which would make Bolt a natural 9.79 i.e. still faster than the vast bulk of dopers.

No one said Bolt wouldnt still woop everyones candy *** without the drugs.

Sometimes some of you guys snark that people believe anyone who wins must be a doper.

With Bolt its not the winning. Its the 9.59, the 9.63 and the 9.69 while taking the ****. If he got a heavy wind like Gay did when he run under 9.7 one time, though it wouldnt count as a record he would break the blimmin sound barrier.

 

[leftover pie]

easy answer this one:

Collingwood Magpies

 

[The Hitch]

Conte says he thinks anabolic steroids can take 2-3 tenths off your time but in the interview a couple of posts up he says he thinks the Jamaicans are on 7 or 8 different drugs so more than just AAS.

Conte suffers from Landis syndrome. Bitter doper who cant stand the fact that hard workers are beating his guys clean.