Avoriaz said:Kind of agree with Martin Vickers and what he says about this thread.
However, if I had to choose anyone, I'd say Richie McCaw
or maybe Eddie the Eagle Edwards, so we could have an argument that maybe sometimes PEDs are useless...
martinvickers said:Pretty confident on Bolt, too, having seen analysis of him - he's simply a prodigy?
I never said there weren't such people. And I can confess that at times when I see something difficult to believe and don't want to believe in it, I can be the same.martinvickers said:Now that is a more sensible question, LS. and, in a break from my usual policy of not discussing hunches, let me say that on Jeter, I agree 100%.
But does it require an extra thread? The whole Clinic is one big discussion of that very topic.
And LS, don't kid yourself, there are people in here who DO want there to be doping. Who would actually be disappointed if, by some logic defying means, they proved they were clean.
Of course, since proving a negative is a logical impossiblity, these clinicians can rest easy...
martinvickers said:That's not actually true. Gay, at the least, is almost certainly clean. Pretty confident on Bolt, too, having seen analysis of him - he's simply a prodigy.
martinvickers said:But let's just say a bust on Blake, or Frazer-Price, would not shock me.
Libertine Seguros said:I never said there weren't such people. And I can confess that at times when I see something difficult to believe and don't want to believe in it, I can be the same.
I was just saying that I was going to go down the route of picking people where the suspicion isn't just "this guy's achievements are pretty unreal" but "how the hell has this person managed to avoid the hit?" In cycling parlance, it would be picking on Ángel Vicioso or Andreas Klöden rather than Chris Froome. Hence why I picked Jeter. There's way too much poorly-disguised smoke around her (and her attitudes and statements) for me not to believe there is fire.
Netserk said:Known doper. Have served a drug ban.
Netserk said:@martinvickers
Just because I suspect a lot of athletes to be doping, doesn't mean that I want them to be doping. IF Messi dopes - which I think he does - then I would like him to be busted.
Wanting suspicious athletes to be busted if doping =/= Wanting suspicious athletes to be doping.
Okay?
Netserk said:@martinvickers
Just because I suspect a lot of athletes to be doping, doesn't mean that I want them to be doping. IF Messi dopes - which I think he does - then I would like him to be busted.
Wanting suspicious athletes to be busted if doping =/= Wanting suspicious athletes to be doping.
Okay?
Dear Wiggo said:Thank you. I couldn't have said it better, in fact I couldn't even be bothered saying it at all. But my sentiments exactly.
The Hitch said:Me too. Im also really confident on Lance Armstrong. I saw analysis that he trained really hard on the same climbs the Tour de France uses, and that he was a prodigy from a very young age.
The Hitch said:In cycling, dopers make non dopers look like amateurs. (eg see the fastest times up Alpe d huez,).Theres no comparison. When epo was introduced, donkeys began to outclimb with ease the greatest talents on the planet.
Since you believe in Gay and Bolt, what you are saying is that in athletics the reverse is true, dopers get absolutely creamed by the non dopers (Bolt compared to Greene, Montgomery, Lewis, Gatlin, Johnson).
So what would you see as an explanation of that. Do drugs not work on 100m runners?
The Hitch said:In cycling, dopers make non dopers look like amateurs. (eg see the fastest times up Alpe d huez,).Theres no comparison. When epo was introduced, donkeys began to outclimb with ease the greatest talents on the planet.
Since you believe in Gay and Bolt, what you are saying is that in athletics the reverse is true, dopers get absolutely creamed by the non dopers (Bolt compared to Greene, Montgomery, Lewis, Gatlin, Johnson).
So what would you see as an explanation of that. Do drugs not work on 100m runners?
Mr. Brooks said:Jarmila Kratochvílová.
mark spitz? as far as i know the only doping he did was marijuana.Red Dragon said:Usain Bolt *
Micheal Phelps *
Stephen Roche *
Micheal Johnson *
Mark Spitz *
Miguel Indurain *
Yohan Blake *
Rafael Nadal *
Bernard Hinault *
Asafa Powell *
Tyson Gay *
Evander Holyfield *
Mike Tyson *
her husband al joyner has denied it. but when asked directly about doping her sister-in-law's alleged doping, jackie joyner-kersee gave a non-denial denial.Briant_Gumble said:...<snip>...
. Sensitive territory but if someone could confess to supplying Flo Jo that would be great.
martinvickers said:It's not so much i 'believe' in them, as i have seen a lot more evidence for their bona fides than say a blake - and I would be a lot less surprised if bolt doped than if Gay or in the past boldon had.
As for the drugs,They work, but the modern (post 2000) margins are not anything like so obvious as in endurance sports - Sprinting had it's "EPO" moment a long time ago. I think conte estimated a good 'regime' could give you 2 tenths - which would make Bolt a natural 9.79 i.e. still faster than the vast bulk of dopers.
martinvickers said:I think conte estimated a good 'regime' could give you 2 tenths - which would make Bolt a natural 9.79 i.e. still faster than the vast bulk of dopers.
Briant_Gumble said:Conte says he thinks anabolic steroids can take 2-3 tenths off your time but in the interview a couple of posts up he says he thinks the Jamaicans are on 7 or 8 different drugs so more than just AAS.