Who's made the most out of limited talent?

[Siriuscat]

Contador...LIMITED talent........what are some of you lot on!!

 

[Roninho]

i don't exactly agree. I think Moreau was someone who didn't dope or only did the minimal amount of doping and still top 5'd at the tour. I personally think he was a very talented rider who got the most out of himself but was in a time that doping was widespread.

Eh, are you talking about the Christophe Moreau who got busted for steroids, got caught up in the festina affair and confessed using Epo or are you talking about another Christophe Moreau?

 

[Parrulo]

Not that he's not talented, but Freire has always struck me as being able to win more bike races with smarts (plus skill, of course) than anyone I've seen in the last ten years. There are guys that had 'lucky' wins (even last year, with Nuyens, Van Summeren, Zaugg and Cobo springing to mind), but I would think of 'making the most' as a continual thing.

are you freaking serious? freire is one of if not the most naturally talented rider of the last 2 decades, extreme physical talent and capacity to read a race like only a few selected can. he is just a slacker/lazy, if anything he is some1 who didn't get everything he could out of his talent. ofc his back injuries didn't help.

nibali is a good pick tho i don't think he is really that limited in terms of talent as he seems to still be slowly improving each year. if he shows even more improvement this year then he shouldn't be on this category but if he doesn't improve anymore then he is a good choice

 

[Angliru]

are you freaking serious? freire is one of if not the most naturally talented rider of the last 2 decades, extreme physical talent and capacity to read a race like only a few selected can. he is just a slacker/lazy, if anything he is some1 who didn't get everything he could out of his talent. ofc his back injuries didn't help.

nibali is a good pick tho i don't think he is really that limited in terms of talent as he seems to still be slowly improving each year. if he shows even more improvement this year then he shouldn't be on this category but if he doesn't improve anymore then he is a good choice

I've heard the "lazy" label used to describe Freire frequently on this forum but never have I heard it from anyone in the actual pro ranks. "Eccentric", yes but "lazy" never.

 

[theyoungest]

I've heard the "lazy" label used to describe Freire frequently on this forum but never have I heard it from anyone in the actual pro ranks. "Eccentric", yes but "lazy" never.

He's not lazy in the sense that he should do more, little training is the method that works for him. But he needs a roommate to make sure he gets to the races in time, in his actual race clothes, etc... you could call that lazy.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Dude, he IS lazy.

After reading the Rabobank site for years the stories about Freire's laziness are epic.

He showed up at Rabo training camps after having done nothing since his last race (usually PT or Lombardy). His teammates all amazed. At the first day he would be crap, but at the end of the week always one of the best.

And sometimes he showed up at races having not trained at all for a week or 2. Then again being bad the first day but ending the stage-race winning 2 stages etc... the stories about this are numerous

When one thing is sure about Freire, it's that he has amazing natural talent. So he does NOT fit in this topic at all and you figured him out all wrong then.

 

[theyoungest]

The most recent example is of course the TDU, where he won a stage after only having trained on a team training camp in December (otherwise he probably wouldn't have trained at all )

 

[maltiv]

Dude, he IS lazy.

After reading the Rabobank site for years the stories about Freire's laziness are epic.

He showed up at Rabo training camps after having done nothing since his last race (usually PT or Lombardy). His teammates all amazed. At the first day he would be crap, but at the end of the week always one of the best.

And sometimes he showed up at races having not trained at all for a week or 2. Then again being bad the first day but ending the stage-race winning 2 stages etc... the stories about this are numerous

When one thing is sure about Freire, it's that he has amazing natural talent. So he does NOT fit in this topic at all and you figured him out all wrong then.

Freire would rather be a prime candidate if the topic question were "who gets the most out of the least training" or even "who gets the most out of the worst relative shape". Freire is just extremely good at timing and finds a way to win even if he's not the strongest or fastest. However, if he just weren't so lazy then perhaps he would actually have been the strongest or the fastest

 

[jens_attacks]

moncoutie is in the same category with freire but with less talent

voeckler fits well in the ontopic question.also oliver zuagg

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Freire would rather be a prime candidate if the topic question were "who gets the most out of the least training" or even "who gets the most out of the worst relative shape". Freire is just extremely good at timing and finds a way to win even if he's not the strongest or fastest. However, if he just weren't so lazy then perhaps he would actually have been the strongest or the fastest

Let me put it this way. If Freire would have the work ethic from a guy like Boogerd, than he'd win a Gilbert-amount of races each year.

 

[Angliru]

He's not lazy in the sense that he should do more, little training is the method that works for him. But he needs a roommate to make sure he gets to the races in time, in his actual race clothes, etc... you could call that lazy.

I'd call that absent-minded.

 

[BroDeal]

The obvious answer is Armstrong. He had a bit of "help" though. Okay a lot of help. To go from not having the natural talent to even place in the top ten of the Tour to winning seven cannot be topped.

 

[ultimobici]

Dude, he IS lazy.

After reading the Rabobank site for years the stories about Freire's laziness are epic.

He showed up at Rabo training camps after having done nothing since his last race (usually PT or Lombardy). His teammates all amazed. At the first day he would be crap, but at the end of the week always one of the best.

And sometimes he showed up at races having not trained at all for a week or 2. Then again being bad the first day but ending the stage-race winning 2 stages etc... the stories about this are numerous

When one thing is sure about Freire, it's that he has amazing natural talent. So he does NOT fit in this topic at all and you figured him out all wrong then.

Sounds like Konyshev. When he was at TVM he used to disappear for weeks then turn up with hairy legs and proceed to hand out a kicking to all and sundry.

 

[issoisso]

On the topic of Freire's training, I'll never forget a quote from an interview at his house:

Reporter: "We'll try to be brief, since surely you have to go out training soon"
Freire: "I'm not training today"
Reporter: "Oh are you injured?"
Freire: "No, it's raining"

 

[jens_attacks]

The obvious answer is Armstrong. He had a bit of "help" though. Okay a lot of help. To go from not having the natural talent to even place in the top ten of the Tour to winning seven cannot be topped.

hilarious.he was one of the most talented athletes ever.

http://sock-doc.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/LanceArmstrongTriathlete.jpg


When I was 16,1 was invited to undergo testing at a place in Dallas called the Cooper Clinic, aprestigious research lab and birthplace of the aerobic exercise revolution. A doctor theremeasured my VO2 max, which is a gauge of how much oxygen you can take in and use,and he says that my numbers are still the highest they've ever come across.



until cancer he was like riccardo ricco,an aszhole than the life changed him.
you really have to be completely blind by hate to say armstrong wasn't talented.

 

[Magnus]

The obvious answer is Armstrong. He had a bit of "help" though. Okay a lot of help. To go from not having the natural talent to even place in the top ten of the Tour to winning seven cannot be topped.

Before he was 25 he had

a worlds title, two tdf-stage wins, Fleche Wallone win, Classica Sebastian win, two LBL second places, and 2nd in Paris Nice GC.

That's pretty good imo.

 

[Benotti69]

Before he was 25 he had

a worlds title, two tdf-stage wins, Fleche Wallone win, Classica Sebastian win, two LBL second places, and 2nd in Paris Nice GC.

That's pretty good imo.

"That's pretty good imo"

and how many of those wins were 'helped'

 

[BroDeal]

"That's pretty good imo"

and how many of those wins were 'helped'

All of them.

His VO2Max was dead average for a pro, very low 80s, and that was after being helped since he was teenager.

 

[BroDeal]

until cancer he was like riccardo ricco,an aszhole than the life changed him.
you really have to be completely blind by hate to say armstrong wasn't talented.

Talented compared to schlubs like me does not mean talented compared to other pros. His VO2Max was nothing special, and we all know how he got his wins. So I would say that this is a pretty damning case of punching way above his weight.

 

[Magnus]

"That's pretty good imo"

and how many of those wins were 'helped'

But that's completely besides the point.

I might have understood BroDeal. I thought he meant Lance went from untalented pre-cancer to 7XTdF winner post.

 

[BroDeal]

It is ridiculous to talk about the talent of most of these riders because their results were so influenced by doping. What can be pointed to a rider like Voeckler, who has a small engine no matter what he is doing or not doing, but has managed to produce a good string of results in spite of that.

 

[BroDeal]

But that's completely besides the point.

I might have understood BroDeal. I thought he meant Lance went from untalented pre-cancer to 7XTdF winner post.

Talent is relative and it is specific. Being able to win the odd semiclassic does mean you can win a GT. Going from not being good enough to place in the top ten of a GT to winning multiple GTs is making the most out of limited talent.

 

[Magnus]

Talent is relative and it is specific. Being able to win the odd semiclassic does mean you can win a GT. Going from not being good enough to place in the top ten of a GT to winning multiple GTs is making the most out of limited talent.

Most GT winners comes from not being able to top ten at some point...

 

[BroDeal]

Most GT winners comes from not being able to top ten at some point...

They don't come from being unable to time trial and climb in the high mountains. They don't come from being unable to finish the Tour until they hire a certain mythical doctor.

People would be better off choosing consistent breakaway artists as examples of those who have made the most of limited talent. Those are otten riders who cannot win races by brute strength. They have to rely on opportunism, race savviness, and a lot of luck.

 

[Magnus]

They don't come from being unable to time trial and climb in the high mountains. They don't come from being unable to finish the Tour until they hire a certain mythical doctor.

Indurain, Riis, Pantani all withdrew from their first GT. When did Armstrong start working with Michele anyway?

People would be better off choosing consistent breakaway artists as examples of those who have made the most of limited talent.

Yes they would. And so would you