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Why Does Floyd Landis Suck now?

He was absolutely horrible at the ToC and now at the Gila he finished four minutes down on the first mtn stage and barely beats Armstrong..Kristin..that is.. in the TT.

Ok so maybe he wasn't going all out..but c'mon ..Floyd..the man finished top ten in the Tour in 2005 without any extra blood? What's up? Has he completely lost his fire? If so, why did he say he wants to win the tour again?

He should be killing it on the American scene. Not finishing middle of the pack.
 
Yeah, been wondering the same. Floyd has always been reputed to have one of the biggest engines in cycling. But then again, a top, top mountain bike pro, who knew and raced with Floyd told me after Floyd went nuclear on the road that he couldn't believe this was the same guy he knew to be just a good, not great, mountain bike pro.

For me it's also interesting to contrast with Basso, who's flying. Floyd does have dodgy hips and has come back from major surgery. So there's that.

One thing for sure, Floyd will always be a total enigma.
 
Ouch says Floyd is marked and can't get two bike lengths up the road without having several riders on his wheel, so he's mostly riding as a decoy for Evans and Sutherland. This makes sense.

While Floyd did say he'd like to get back to the Tour, he also admitted he didn't get as much off-season training as he would have liked and is mostly just focusing on riding and having fun. The one area where I will credit him. He seems to be fairly positive and just happy to be racing.

One thing that couldn't have helped is that he's been separated from his wife for a while. Last I heard late last year was that he was trying to make it work though it looked like they were going to divorce. I'm sure that took a toll.

Floyd says the hip is fine, and not an excuse for anything. He even crashed on it earlier in the year with zero problems.

He rode fairly well at the Veulta Mexico, but lost some 20 minutes on the big mountain stage there. And while he was far behind in the TOC, he actually was in a short break on the Palomar stage and looked fairly good before being reeled back in.

I'd venture to guess he's riding clean, while he was pretty doped before. That's the ugly, but perhaps obvious answer. I still think he'll come back late in the year, or next season and show some pretty good results. Even if he was doped and is now clean, the difference between then and now seems much greater than that. But who knows?
 
Mellow Velo said:
The answer is obvious and more evidence of what he was up to in 2006 and in earlier Tours.
Good for him, if he is now finishing in the pack, clean.

Vaughters himself said that Floyd rode the 2005 Tour where he finished 9th without any blood.

And that the year before Lance and JB poured his blood down the toilet to make him ride bad for some reason.
 
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Juan Pelota said:
Vaughters himself said that Floyd rode the 2005 Tour where he finished 9th without any blood.

And that the year before Lance and JB poured his blood down the toilet to make him ride bad for some reason.

How would Vaughters know that? And how would he know about the poured blood (which to me, is one of the most laughable allegations)?
 
peloton said:
How would Vaughters know that? And how would he know about the poured blood (which to me, is one of the most laughable allegations)?

I have heard it too, i just wish i could remember where. I think it had something to do with FL ****ing off LA, and obviously JB sided with 'the boss'

edit: could it be the time that JB told FL to go slow in the tt but he did a good time anyway and told them that he was goin slow as well and after that they got angry? (just a thought)
 
I think we will see more from Floyd in the next little while - either later in the year or next spring. A guy with the drive and talent that he has doesn't just lose it. I actually think the doping factor is a little eronious - and not that I don't think it makes a difference to perfromance - I just think at the moment this is more about Floyd getting back into it - it takes a little while (when you have gone through everything he has in his professional and personal life) to get your self together. IMHO He'll be back.
 
Juan Pelota said:
Vaughters himself said that Floyd rode the 2005 Tour where he finished 9th without any blood.

And that the year before Lance and JB poured his blood down the toilet to make him ride bad for some reason.

Okay, unless you know something I don't, the first quote is from the IM between JV and FA. It was in reference to one packing session that was missed before Stage 8. Who knows about the rest, or before the race, or after.

The latter quote is a rumor that's been floating around for a while.

JV later stated that the entire IM between he and FA was based on 2nd hand info and hearsay, ans mostly playful banter between the two - though it definitely had a ring of truth to it.

Either way, as I said, riding clean Floyd should be doing better, and I think by the end of the season or in 2010 we'll see that.
 
Alpe d'Huez said:
Okay, unless you know something I don't, the first quote is from the IM between JV and FA. It was in reference to one packing session that was missed before Stage 8. Who knows about the rest, or before the race, or after.

The latter quote is a rumor that's been floating around for a while.

JV later stated that the entire IM between he and FA was based on 2nd hand info and hearsay, ans mostly playful banter between the two - though it definitely had a ring of truth to it.

Either way, as I said, riding clean Floyd should be doing better, and I think by the end of the season or in 2010 we'll see that.


Both quotes are from the IM conversation between JV and Andreau...

Also JV 'later stated' - by this I'm sure you mean was forced to sign an affidavidit written by Lance's lawyers.
 
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An instant message between Frankie Andreu (FDREU) and Jonathan Vaughters (Cyclevaughters) the morning of July 26, 2005:


Cyclevaughters: frankie - hey - thanks for talking the other day

FDREU: no problem, where are you

Cyclevaughters: back in CO

FDREU: nice, I just got home, isnt' it like 5AM

Cyclevaughters: sometimes i think i'm going to go nuts

Cyclevaughters: yeah

Cyclevaughters: it's 5am

FDREU: I agree, I came home and the air conditioning is broken

Cyclevaughters: ouch

FDREU: did your kid grow twice it's size in the two weeks you were gone

Cyclevaughters: yeah, his feet look bigger for some eason

FDREU: funny

Cyclevaughters: anyhow, i never can quite figure out why i don't just play along with the lance crowd - i mean **** it would make my life easier, eh? it's not like i never played with hotsauce, eh?

FDREU: I know, but in the end i don't think it comes back to bite you

FDREU: I play along, my wife does not, and Lance hates us both

FDREU: it's a no win situation, you know how he is. Once you leave the team or do soemthing wrong you forever banned

Cyclevaughters: i suppose - you know he tried to hire me back in 2001... he was nice to me... i just couldn't deal with that whole world

FDREU: I did not know that

FDREU: look at why everyone leaves, it's way to controlling

Cyclevaughters: once I went to CA and saw that now all the teams got 25 injections every day

Cyclevaughters: hell, CA was ZERO

FDREU: you mean all the riders

Cyclevaughters: Credit Agricole

FDREU: it's crazy

Cyclevaughters: So, I realized lance was full of **** when he'd say everyone was doing it

FDREU: You may read stuff that i say to radio or press, praising the Tour and lance but it's just playing the game

Cyclevaughters: believe me, as carzy as it sounds - Moreau was on nothing. Hct of 39%

FDREU: when in 2000-2001

Cyclevaughters: so, that's when you start thinking... hell, kevin was telling me that after 2000 Ullrich never raced over 42%--- yeah moreau in 2000-2001

Cyclevaughters: anyhow - whtever

FDREU: After 1999, you know many things changed. lance did not

FDREU: I believe that's part of whey kevin left, he was tired of the stuff

Cyclevaughters: yeah, i could explain the whole way lance dupes everyone

FDREU: what abut GH climbing the mountains better than azevedo and the entire group

Cyclevaughters: from how floyd described it, i know exactly the methos

FDREU: explain that, classics to climber

FDREU: when did you talk with floyd

Cyclevaughters: i don't know - i want to trust George

Cyclevaughters: but the thing is on that team, you think it's normal

Cyclevaughters: or at least i did

FDREU: i guess. anything with blodd is not normal

Cyclevaughters: yeah, it's very complex how the avoid all the controls now, but it's not any new drug or anything, just the resources and planning to pull of a well devised plan

Cyclevaughters: it's why they all got dropped on stage 9 - no refill yet - then on the rest day - boom 800ml of packed cells

FDREU: they have it mastered. good point

Cyclevaughters: they draw the blood right after the dauphine

FDREU: how do they sneak it in, or keep it until needed

FDREU: i'm sure it's not with the truck in the frig

Cyclevaughters: motorcycle - refridgerated panniers

Cyclevaughters: on the rest day

Cyclevaughters: floyd has a photo of the thing

FDREU: crazy! it' just keep going to new levels

Cyclevaughters: yeah, it's complicated, but with enough money you can do it

FDREU: they have enough money. Floyd was so ****ed at them this entire tour

Cyclevaughters: anyhow - i just feel sorry for floyd and some of the other guys

Cyclevaughters: why would lance keep doing the **** when he clearly has nothing to prove - it's weird

FDREU: I know. me to. they all get ripped into for no reason

FDREU: he's done now, thank god. but they will prove next year for Johan's sake that they are the greatest

Cyclevaughters: and then lance says " this guy and that guys are pussies"

FDREU: they won't stop

FDREU: I agree
 
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Juan Pelota said:
He was absolutely horrible at the ToC and now at the Gila he finished four minutes down on the first mtn stage and barely beats Armstrong..Kristin..that is.. in the TT.

Anybody "clean" at that Tour of California wouldnt have been top 25.... Probably a DNF because the incredible pace of the field. Any clean freak, anyone you like.

Kristin is super super super "juiced."

Floyd's team sucks AND he is not heavily doped if at all. He has not blood doped with his own blood after his "comeback" unlike "Tyler" who did several times post-ban.

LOVELY

Cheers. :)
 
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El Imbatido said:
I have heard it too, i just wish i could remember where. I think it had something to do with FL ****ing off LA, and obviously JB sided with 'the boss'

edit: could it be the time that JB told FL to go slow in the tt but he did a good time anyway and told them that he was goin slow as well and after that they got angry? (just a thought)

i just cant see the connection here between LA/JB/JV/FL....
 
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ElChingon said:
Who released this famous IM anyway?

This text message conversation between Jonathan Vaughters and Frankie Andreau was subpoenaed for the Armstrong v SCA Promotions trial. SCA Promotions were refusing to pay Armstrong millions of dollars for winning 5 (or 7?) consecutive TdF's based on their claims that he did it unfairly because of doping. The trial was closed, but the text message conversation was leaked.
 
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PuncturedTyre said:
i just cant see the connection here between LA/JB/JV/FL....

The connection is that Armstrong and Bruyneel were punishing Landis for leaving Discovery for Phonak by dumping his blood transfusion down the toilet before a difficult stage on the TdF. Vaughters admitted that he did not personally witness the event, but had been told about it by other sources. The dots linking Armstrong, Bruyneel, Vaughters and Andreau is based on a subpoenaed text message conversation between Jonathan Vaughters and Frankie Andreau.
 
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elapid said:
This text message conversation between Jonathan Vaughters and Frankie Andreau was subpoenaed for the Armstrong v SCA Promotions trial. SCA Promotions were refusing to pay Armstrong millions of dollars for winning 5 (or 7?) consecutive TdF's based on their claims that he did it unfairly because of doping. The trial was closed, but the text message conversation was leaked.

Wow, why does Frankie keep his IM's... I guess you never know who has their IM logging on and who doesn't. It may of helped Frankie out in that case but not Johnny V, oh well I guess Johnny V won't IM with Frankie much anymore.

Time for everyone to register stupid IM names using fake e-mail addresses for freedom of that!

Makes you wonder if Frankie has more IM logs of other people :D
 
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180mmCrank said:
I think we will see more from Floyd in the next little while - either later in the year or next spring. A guy with the drive and talent that he has doesn't just lose it. I actually think the doping factor is a little eronious - and not that I don't think it makes a difference to perfromance - I just think at the moment this is more about Floyd getting back into it - it takes a little while (when you have gone through everything he has in his professional and personal life) to get your self together. IMHO He'll be back.

I am not sure that I agree - but then, I never really liked the guy. In my opinion he juiced more than he want anyone to believe and now that he has been caught and under more scrutiny, the results reflect the physical capabilities. The new hip is not a real issue. I do have a new one myself and it is a world of difference once you get the pain-free feeling and freedom.

But that is my $0.02 - train harder FL and prove yourself agn
 
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ridley said:
In my opinion he juiced more than he want anyone to believe and now that he has been caught and under more scrutiny, the results reflect the physical capabilities.

I dont really think so. Floyd never got to work directly with Ferrari, he never had any doctor... He scored a 90 VO2 max test at 18... If you look at his wattage files from the 2006 Tour it was not exeptional compared to Lance, Basso, Ullrich and if anything it looked feasable for a total freak. 380-400 for sustainable power at 150 pounds...

Now, when you have a guy with an undoped 82 VO2 max and they win Tours you know they are heavily heavily doped and a super responder to drug therapy. If everybody was clean and doping didnt exist, at best that would get mid-pack or the top third but certainly not a win.
 

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