Why Sky always fails at Il Giro?

[bikinggirl]

Sky can not compete because the Giro is much tougher then TDF and the Vuelta, simple is that!!

 

[Gigs_98]

Re: Re:

And they have just won their first monument at the 34th (!!) attempt. It isn't really a successful team overall.

Winning 15 one-day races (including a Monument), 37 stage races (including 3 GTs) and 130 individual stages is so unsuccessful it's a wonder they haven't been demoted to Continental status yet.

Of the 53 most important races (19 grand tours and 34 monuments) that they've ridden since their inception they've won four of them. Sorry, but I don't think that's a particularly successful record considering their budget.

I really don't like sky but just to doubt if that team is successful is nonsense. Most teams would probably change all the wins they have achieved in the last 6 seasons to just get those 3 tdf victories just because the tdf is so much more important than any other race in the world.

 

[StryderHells]

What I don't get is why this needed it's own dedicated thread, there already is a Sky discussion thread that the question could of been asked in

 

[SeriousSam]

For every occasion on which they failed, there is a separate reason, often rider specific. There is no convincing evidence of a team specific pattern, although that won't deter some commentators from projecting their preferred narrative onto those 3 data points.

 

[HelloDolly]

Oh a forum set up to bash SKY ...who could have foreseen that ?

SKY have been very unlucky this year with sickness, injury and suspension

 

[Breh]

Suspensions are hardly bad luck

 

[HelloDolly]

Re:

Suspensions are hardly bad luck

Run that by Mick Rogers & Roman Kreusiger

 

[DFA123]

Gets ill and withdraws from a Grand Tour once.

Staying healthy throughout 3 weeks of a grand tour is a massive part of being an elite grand tour rider. Landa obviously struggles with his health and consistency as a rider.

If you want to ignore the 14 minutes he lost in a stage last year at the Vuelta, 2 seasons running when he's missed the first months of the season due to illness and an entire career of inconsistent riding, as described by the likes of Taxus who know him well, then be my guest.

He's a great talent but with serious flaws in terms of being an elite grand tour GC rider. I don't think that's an unfair assessment.

Indeed; he's still pretty much unproven as an elite week long stage racer. Still yet to win at WT level.

 

[Taxus4a]

First was Wiggins, then Porte & now Landa......

It appears to me that "marginal gains" don't work in Italy But really- what's the matter with Sky being unable to conquer the Italian race at all?

Is it the time of the year? Is it the logistics? Is it the quality team sent to Italy? It is the race difficulty? Is it the team calendar? Is it the team priorities? Is it the team's approach to the race?

Please Opine.....

Life use to deliver for everybody. So destiny dont want they win Giro-Tour and Vuelta.

But if SKY win a lot, everybody talking about as something bad, and if SKY dont want something... the same. They had bad luck, the same the had very good luck some years in the past in other races...

 

[Kokoso]

First was Wiggins, then Porte & now Landa......

It appears to me that "marginal gains" don't work in Italy But really- what's the matter with Sky being unable to conquer the Italian race at all?

Is it the time of the year? Is it the logistics? Is it the quality team sent to Italy? It is the race difficulty? Is it the team calendar? Is it the team priorities? Is it the team's approach to the race?

Please Opine.....

Because there is no rule that Sky conquers all automatically. Human after all.

 

[Tonton]

For every occasion on which they failed, there is a separate reason, often rider specific. There is no convincing evidence of a team specific pattern, although that won't deter some commentators from projecting their preferred narrative onto those 3 data points.

I like your posts. I do . It's tempting though...the three times is a pattern...

 

[uphillstruggle]

Re: Re:

[quote="JRanton

Of the 53 most important races (19 grand tours and 34 monuments) that they've ridden since their inception they've won four of them. Sorry, but I don't think that's a particularly successful record considering their budget.[/quote]

It's an interesting way to look at it really, If you compare it to other teams and what they have done over the same period, 2010-2016 (and I'm just dong this off the top of my head so anyone feel free to fill in the gaps).

Garmin: 3 monuments 1 GT.
BMC: 1 GT
Trek: 6 monuments 1GT
Astana: 3GT 3 Monuments
Cannondale: 2 GT,
Katusha: 4 Monuments
Saxo: 3 GT (or 4, suspensions notwithstanding) 2 Monuments
Quickstep: 4 Monuments
Orica: 3 Monuments
Movistar: 1GT, 1 Monument

Seems a fairly even spread among the 'bigger' teams, the obvious failures using this metric are BMC and Movistar, not Sky.

 

[Jspear]

Re: Re:

And they have just won their first monument at the 34th (!!) attempt. It isn't really a successful team overall.

Winning 15 one-day races (including a Monument), 37 stage races (including 3 GTs) and 130 individual stages is so unsuccessful it's a wonder they haven't been demoted to Continental status yet.

Of the 53 most important races (19 grand tours and 34 monuments) that they've ridden since their inception they've won four of them. Sorry, but I don't think that's a particularly successful record considering their budget.

Aye, but they've done all that in the last 4 years.

 

[portugal11]

Giro is much more unpredictable than tour. In il giro, exist cold, snow, wet roads, allergies,... is difficult control a race like giro, that's why contador is made for this type of race and he has 3 wins out of 3 attempts

 

[Scarponi]

This would be like comparing any team who didnt have Merckx to the team who did not have him. Porte and Froome pretty much own every single win for the team. ALmost every other team would have 2-4 riders who own most of the wins. Difference is the other teams do not talk as much *** as Sky. Sky cannot keep their mouth shut.

 

[HelloDolly]

This would be like comparing any team who didnt have Merckx to the team who did not have him. Porte and Froome pretty much own every single win for the team. ALmost every other team would have 2-4 riders who own most of the wins. Difference is the other teams do not talk as much **** as Sky. Sky cannot keep their mouth shut.

Bloody hell...there us such a thing as freedom of speech Plus SKY are probably answering questions when they talk
Maybe you should set up your own dictatorship like Kim Yung Il

 

[Taxus4a]

Why Mercks always failed at Paris -Tours??

 

[PremierAndrew]

Re: Re:

And they have just won their first monument at the 34th (!!) attempt. It isn't really a successful team overall.

Winning 15 one-day races (including a Monument), 37 stage races (including 3 GTs) and 130 individual stages is so unsuccessful it's a wonder they haven't been demoted to Continental status yet.

Of the 53 most important races (19 grand tours and 34 monuments) that they've ridden since their inception they've won four of them. Sorry, but I don't think that's a particularly successful record considering their budget.

So Cancellara has been more successful than every cyclist in a Sky jersey combined

 

[Taxus4a]

Re:

Sky can not compete because the Giro is much tougher then TDF and the Vuelta, simple is that!!

The toughest race in the world by far is le Tour... it is the more stressing, the more demanding, with the most level, and sometimes the harder mountain... although there are climbs in the Giro that make it different... Anyway this year Giau is like lot of climbs of la Vuelta, and Anello, Risould, Bonnete, are climbs of le Tour...

Do you think someone as Ciccone can get an stage in le Tour??

And for Landa, as much hard are the mountais better...it is just a question of coincidence... How many teams has never got the Giro?... In the case of SKy withdrawalls is just coincience, that would happen to Landa in any other team, is just an illness...

 

[The Hegelian]

Seems pretty clear that Sky only really commit to the tdf. They've got a good classics team now, but when nut comes to crunch, it's only the tour that really matters to them. Reminds me a lot of US Postal.

So with respect to the Giro - yes they have a bit of crack, but their GC man is always seemingly half a step away from from being pulled to ride as a super domestique for Froome. Landa will def do this. Porte did last year. Wiggins didn't, but I'm sure they were thinking about it. First hint of trouble: they flick the switch.

 

[bassano]

Re: Re:

Sky can not compete because the Giro is much tougher then TDF and the Vuelta, simple is that!!

The toughest race in the world by far is le Tour... it is the more stressing, the more demanding, with the most level, and sometimes the harder mountain... although there are climbs in the Giro that make it different... Anyway this year Giau is like lot of climbs of la Vuelta, and Anello, Risould, Bonnete, are climbs of le Tour...

Do you think someone as Ciccone can get an stage in le Tour??

And for Landa, as much hard are the mountais better...it is just a question of coincidence... How many teams has never got the Giro?... In the case of SKy withdrawalls is just coincience, that would happen to Landa in any other team, is just an illness...

Objectivelly no way, climbs are much harder at giro (this year maybe not but it is 1/10 years like that), weather conditions are usually much worse, race is way too unpredictable tour is much easier to control by strong team
and where exactly did you saw Bonette or Anello in Tour de france? long time ago And mountains like Giau in Vuelta? where exactly
And Ciccone? Do you think that Cummings, Plaza Molina or lot of other winners of tour stages are so better then him?

 

[Taxus4a]

Re:

Seems pretty clear that Sky only really commit to the tdf. They've got a good classics team now, but when nut comes to crunch, it's only the tour that really matters to them. Reminds me a lot of US Postal.

So with respect to the Giro - yes they have a bit of crack, but their GC man is always seemingly half a step away from from being pulled to ride as a super domestique for Froome. Landa will def do this. Porte did last year. Wiggins didn't, but I'm sure they were thinking about it. First hint of trouble: they flick the switch.

Froome crashed at le Tour and abadoned, it is the same that happens with Porte last year and similar to an illness this year, nobody is free of that...

In le Tour is use to be a better weather than in il Giro so it is more difficult to get sick. Of course Sky is the team with more budget and le Tour is the race more important for them with a big difference (almost nobody is following il Giro in Spain, le Tour is the sport event more watched in July here...) but in this case that has no influence.

 

[gunara]

by that standard, every team other than Astana fail at at least one Grand Tour since Sky became big force, Sky is far from worst, they match Katusha, Vacansoleil, and BMC by having one Giro GC podium without a win in the last 4 year.
And looking at their leaders in those last 4 years, none of them was the main favorite anyway, their teams were never the strongest on paper. They're yet to be able to give it a big an emphasis as they give le Tour.

 

[IndianCyclist]

Re:

by that standard, every team other than Astana fail at at least one Grand Tour since Sky became big force, Sky is far from worst, they match Katusha, Vacansoleil, and BMC by having one Giro GC podium without a win in the last 4 year.
And looking at their leaders in those last 4 years, none of them was the main favorite anyway, their teams were never the strongest on paper. They're yet to be able to give it a big an emphasis as they give le Tour.

Comparison is not that way. That way many teams will fail. What is important is achievements vs expectations. Sky fail because they did not deliver on expectations. Wiggins was supposed to win. Abandon & epic fail. Landa was supposed to win. Abandon. Porte was supposed to win. Abandon. All not even finishing the race forget the top ten or podium.

 

[myrideissteelerthanyours]

Re:

Why Mercks always failed at Paris -Tours??

Because in his final season everyone banded together to help Van Looy out of spite