Why Sky always fails at Il Giro?

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May 16, 2016
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HelloDolly said:
Scarponi said:
This would be like comparing any team who didnt have Merckx to the team who did not have him. Porte and Froome pretty much own every single win for the team. ALmost every other team would have 2-4 riders who own most of the wins. Difference is the other teams do not talk as much **** as Sky. Sky cannot keep their mouth shut.

Bloody hell...there us such a thing as freedom of speech Plus SKY are probably answering questions when they talk
Maybe you should set up your own dictatorship like Kim Yung Il
That isn't true at all, Viviani got the most wins last year, Poles won a monument Ffs and EBH I think is still their 3rd most prolific winner and he hasn't been there for 2 years so you're just plain wrong. Landa, Henao, Kiri, Swift all great winners
 
May 16, 2016
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Re: Re:

PremierAndrew said:
JRanton said:
CheckMyPecs said:
JRanton said:
And they have just won their first monument at the 34th (!!) attempt. It isn't really a successful team overall.
Winning 15 one-day races (including a Monument), 37 stage races (including 3 GTs) and 130 individual stages is so unsuccessful it's a wonder they haven't been demoted to Continental status yet. :rolleyes:
Of the 53 most important races (19 grand tours and 34 monuments) that they've ridden since their inception they've won four of them. Sorry, but I don't think that's a particularly successful record considering their budget.
So Cancellara has been more successful than every cyclist in a Sky jersey combined
That's an amazing win rate in a sport where more than 2 people can win on any given day, I challenge you to find teams that do better, Ettix have a better record in terms of wins on any given day but they've never won a GT, 3 GTs in 7 years of existence is better than any other team in the modern day with the exception of Astana (make your own conclusions as I can't say mine outside of Clinic) and they've had a podium in each GT including 3 at the Vuelta, 4 at Le Tour and 1 at Il Giro and at le Tour they've either won or had their leader crash out in the first week each year but 2010 so please look at the figures in comparison
 
Yes Sky have had mixed success at the giro, lets analyse why.

First of all Sky will always prioritise the Tour as it provides 90% of the annual publicity for the sponsors and British and US markets know very little about the Giro.
Sky's best GC guy will therefore always go to the tour, which is what we have seen since 2010. Also to have won 3 out of the last 4 Tours is outstanding and they don't get enough credit for that!

Therefore Sky will always sturggle to win Giros when there best riders go to the Tour.
Compare last year's tour team: Froome, Porte, Thomas, Kennaugh, Stannard, Rowe, Roche, König and Poels
Giro Team: Porte, Viviani, Eisel, Henao, Kiryienka, König, Mikel Nieve,Siutsou.
There is a big difference in quality.

Now let's analyse the failures
2013 wasn't a failure. They finished 2nd in GC, after Brad had crashed out that's bike racing. Also Brad wasn't as motivated as previously.

2014 Porte was ill and 2nd leader Henao was out due to his blood values. So the team went in without a leader and did poorly as expected. But a very very poor giro!

2015 Porte was the leader. All was going well Until he was docked 2 mins and involved in a crash. He clearly wasn't able to keep up with the rest after the crash when he had been able to before. The crash wasn't Sky's fault, again thats bike racing.
But they won 2 stages and finished 6th in GC with Konig. Still a very respectable giro.

2016 Konig, Henao, Kiri and Intxausti were all meant to take to the start. But due to illness and BP issues they didn't. Therefore Landa was only quality rider left and he go ill. Imagine when you are throwing up, could you ride at 40km/h averages and do 4000m of climbing? Definitely not. So cut his some slack. Very similar to TJ Van Garderen last year at the Tour.

Overall Sky have just been very unlucky in my opinion and deserve some slack.
They are the only team in the world who challenge for every single race!
Etix aren't capable of wining stage races, Astana and Movistar are non existent in the classics. etc etc
 
May 16, 2016
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Oliwright said:
Yes Sky have had mixed success at the giro, lets analyse why.

First of all Sky will always prioritise the Tour as it provides 90% of the annual publicity for the sponsors and British and US markets know very little about the Giro.
Sky's best GC guy will therefore always go to the tour, which is what we have seen since 2010. Also to have won 3 out of the last 4 Tours is outstanding and they don't get enough credit for that!

Therefore Sky will always sturggle to win Giros when there best riders go to the Tour.
Compare last year's tour team: Froome, Porte, Thomas, Kennaugh, Stannard, Rowe, Roche, König and Poels
Giro Team: Porte, Viviani, Eisel, Henao, Kiryienka, König, Mikel Nieve,Siutsou.
There is a big difference in quality.

Now let's analyse the failures
2013 wasn't a failure. They finished 2nd in GC, after Brad had crashed out that's bike racing. Also Brad wasn't as motivated as previously.

2014 Porte was ill and 2nd leader Henao was out due to his blood values. So the team went in without a leader and did poorly as expected. But a very very poor giro!

2015 Porte was the leader. All was going well Until he was docked 2 mins and involved in a crash. He clearly wasn't able to keep up with the rest after the crash when he had been able to before. The crash wasn't Sky's fault, again thats bike racing.
But they won 2 stages and finished 6th in GC with Konig. Still a very respectable giro.

2016 Konig, Henao, Kiri and Intxausti were all meant to take to the start. But due to illness and BP issues they didn't. Therefore Landa was only quality rider left and he go ill. Imagine when you are throwing up, could you ride at 40km/h averages and do 4000m of climbing? Definitely not. So cut his some slack. Very similar to TJ Van Garderen last year at the Tour.

Overall Sky have just been very unlucky in my opinion and deserve some slack.
They are the only team in the world who challenge for every single race!
Etix aren't capable of wining stage races, Astana and Movistar are non existent in the classics. etc etc
Brilliant view, you're right down to a T
 
Re: Re:

That's an amazing win rate in a sport where more than 2 people can win on any given day, I challenge you to find teams that do better, Ettix have a better record in terms of wins on any given day but they've never won a GT, 3 GTs in 7 years of existence is better than any other team in the modern day with the exception of Astana (make your own conclusions as I can't say mine outside of Clinic) and they've had a podium in each GT including 3 at the Vuelta, 4 at Le Tour and 1 at Il Giro and at le Tour they've either won or had their leader crash out in the first week each year but 2010 so please look at the figures in comparison[/quote]

Sky spend the most money but also achieve by far the most.
Look at the last 4 . 5 years.
They have raced 13 GTs, in which they have had 7 podium finishes and 3 Tour Wins. All with riders they have developed into stage racers apart from Wiggins
Tinkoff (&Saxo times) have won 3 GTs since then with Contador who they bought as an established star.
Astana have won 3 GTs with Nibali who they bought as an established star and Aru.
Movistar have won 1 giro with Quintana who they have developed.
Lets be honest winning the Tour 3 times is the most impressive since its the hardest to win as more of the top riders target it.

In terms of monuments
Sky have won 1 with Poels at Liege.
Astana have won 1 with Nibali at Il Lombardia (Maxim Iglinsky's Liege doesn't count since he tested positive for EPO)
Tinkoff (&Saxo times) have won 1 with Sagan
Movistar have won 0

So pretty even.
But Sky have won a lot more races and are competitive in all the races they attend all year round.
Do Movistar and Astana even ride the cobbled classics?
Tinkoff are non existent in the Ardenes most of the time.

Overall Sky are the best team but they spend the most.
 
May 16, 2016
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Oliwright said:
That's an amazing win rate in a sport where more than 2 people can win on any given day, I challenge you to find teams that do better, Ettix have a better record in terms of wins on any given day but they've never won a GT, 3 GTs in 7 years of existence is better than any other team in the modern day with the exception of Astana (make your own conclusions as I can't say mine outside of Clinic) and they've had a podium in each GT including 3 at the Vuelta, 4 at Le Tour and 1 at Il Giro and at le Tour they've either won or had their leader crash out in the first week each year but 2010 so please look at the figures in comparison
Sky spend the most money but also achieve by far the most.
Look at the last 4 . 5 years.
They have raced 13 GTs, in which they have had 7 podium finishes and 3 Tour Wins. All with riders they have developed into stage racers apart from Wiggins
Tinkoff (&Saxo times) have won 3 GTs since then with Contador who they bought as an established star.
Astana have won 3 GTs with Nibali who they bought as an established star and Aru.
Movistar have won 1 giro with Quintana who they have developed.
Lets be honest winning the Tour 3 times is the most impressive since its the hardest to win as more of the top riders target it.

In terms of monuments
Sky have won 1 with Poels at Liege.
Astana have won 1 with Nibali at Il Lombardia (Maxim Iglinsky's Liege doesn't count since he tested positive for EPO)
Tinkoff (&Saxo times) have won 1 with Sagan
Movistar have won 0

So pretty even.
But Sky have won a lot more races and are competitive in all the races they attend all year round.
Do Movistar and Astana even ride the cobbled classics?
Tinkoff are non existent in the Ardenes most of the time.

Overall Sky are the best team but they spend the most.[/quote]

I agree with your assessment overall and it's important to note that Sky have so many more podiums and I must point out that Movistar have a monument with Valverde at Liege
 
Oliwright said:
Yes Sky have had mixed success at the giro, lets analyse why.

First of all Sky will always prioritise the Tour as it provides 90% of the annual publicity for the sponsors and British and US markets know very little about the Giro.
Sky's best GC guy will therefore always go to the tour, which is what we have seen since 2010. Also to have won 3 out of the last 4 Tours is outstanding and they don't get enough credit for that!

Therefore Sky will always sturggle to win Giros when there best riders go to the Tour.
Compare last year's tour team: Froome, Porte, Thomas, Kennaugh, Stannard, Rowe, Roche, König and Poels
Giro Team: Porte, Viviani, Eisel, Henao, Kiryienka, König, Mikel Nieve,Siutsou.
There is a big difference in quality.

Now let's analyse the failures
2013 wasn't a failure. They finished 2nd in GC, after Brad had crashed out that's bike racing. Also Brad wasn't as motivated as previously.

2014 Porte was ill and 2nd leader Henao was out due to his blood values. So the team went in without a leader and did poorly as expected. But a very very poor giro!

2015 Porte was the leader. All was going well Until he was docked 2 mins and involved in a crash. He clearly wasn't able to keep up with the rest after the crash when he had been able to before. The crash wasn't Sky's fault, again thats bike racing.
But they won 2 stages and finished 6th in GC with Konig. Still a very respectable giro.

2016 Konig, Henao, Kiri and Intxausti were all meant to take to the start. But due to illness and BP issues they didn't. Therefore Landa was only quality rider left and he go ill. Imagine when you are throwing up, could you ride at 40km/h averages and do 4000m of climbing? Definitely not. So cut his some slack. Very similar to TJ Van Garderen last year at the Tour.

Overall Sky have just been very unlucky in my opinion and deserve some slack.
They are the only team in the world who challenge for every single race!
Etix aren't capable of wining stage races, Astana and Movistar are non existent in the classics. etc etc
This post people. This post.
Not much more to it.
 
Re: Re:

Oliwright said:
That's an amazing win rate in a sport where more than 2 people can win on any given day, I challenge you to find teams that do better, Ettix have a better record in terms of wins on any given day but they've never won a GT, 3 GTs in 7 years of existence is better than any other team in the modern day with the exception of Astana (make your own conclusions as I can't say mine outside of Clinic) and they've had a podium in each GT including 3 at the Vuelta, 4 at Le Tour and 1 at Il Giro and at le Tour they've either won or had their leader crash out in the first week each year but 2010 so please look at the figures in comparison
Sky spend the most money but also achieve by far the most.
Look at the last 4 . 5 years.
They have raced 13 GTs, in which they have had 7 podium finishes and 3 Tour Wins. All with riders they have developed into stage racers apart from Wiggins
Tinkoff (&Saxo times) have won 3 GTs since then with Contador who they bought as an established star.
Astana have won 3 GTs with Nibali who they bought as an established star and Aru.
Movistar have won 1 giro with Quintana who they have developed.
Lets be honest winning the Tour 3 times is the most impressive since its the hardest to win as more of the top riders target it.

In terms of monuments
Sky have won 1 with Poels at Liege.
Astana have won 1 with Nibali at Il Lombardia (Maxim Iglinsky's Liege doesn't count since he tested positive for EPO)
Tinkoff (&Saxo times) have won 1 with Sagan
Movistar have won 0

So pretty even.
But Sky have won a lot more races and are competitive in all the races they attend all year round.
Do Movistar and Astana even ride the cobbled classics?
Tinkoff are non existent in the Ardenes most of the time.

Overall Sky are the best team but they spend the most.[/quote]

Astana beat Sky in the two most important cobbled classics last year, and Movistar have won more classics (albeit ardennes and San Sebastian) than Sky and you say that tinkoff are 'non existent' but forget Valgren's second in amstel and Kreuziger's countless placings. Sky's Liege win was more of an exception than then norm. They were good in the cobbled classics, however, but this was really the first season where they've been properly fighting for it, except maybe Thomas last year but he underperformed in the Monuments.
 
May 16, 2016
126
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Brullnux said:
Oliwright said:
That's an amazing win rate in a sport where more than 2 people can win on any given day, I challenge you to find teams that do better, Ettix have a better record in terms of wins on any given day but they've never won a GT, 3 GTs in 7 years of existence is better than any other team in the modern day with the exception of Astana (make your own conclusions as I can't say mine outside of Clinic) and they've had a podium in each GT including 3 at the Vuelta, 4 at Le Tour and 1 at Il Giro and at le Tour they've either won or had their leader crash out in the first week each year but 2010 so please look at the figures in comparison
Sky spend the most money but also achieve by far the most.
Look at the last 4 . 5 years.
They have raced 13 GTs, in which they have had 7 podium finishes and 3 Tour Wins. All with riders they have developed into stage racers apart from Wiggins
Tinkoff (&Saxo times) have won 3 GTs since then with Contador who they bought as an established star.
Astana have won 3 GTs with Nibali who they bought as an established star and Aru.
Movistar have won 1 giro with Quintana who they have developed.
Lets be honest winning the Tour 3 times is the most impressive since its the hardest to win as more of the top riders target it.

In terms of monuments
Sky have won 1 with Poels at Liege.
Astana have won 1 with Nibali at Il Lombardia (Maxim Iglinsky's Liege doesn't count since he tested positive for EPO)
Tinkoff (&Saxo times) have won 1 with Sagan
Movistar have won 0

So pretty even.
But Sky have won a lot more races and are competitive in all the races they attend all year round.
Do Movistar and Astana even ride the cobbled classics?
Tinkoff are non existent in the Ardenes most of the time.

Overall Sky are the best team but they spend the most.
Astana beat Sky in the two most important cobbled classics last year, and Movistar have won more classics (albeit ardennes and San Sebastian) than Sky and you say that tinkoff are 'non existent' but forget Valgren's second in amstel and Kreuziger's countless placings. Sky's Liege win was more of an exception than then norm. They were good in the cobbled classics, however, but this was really the first season where they've been properly fighting for it, except maybe Thomas last year but he underperformed in the Monuments.[/quote]

Sky have been up there for years, they weren't out of the top 10 in any Ardennes last year and you forget Henao's 2nd at Flèche in 2012 etc. Sky had no luck in the cobbles last year and this year Astana were just awful, Nibali as always underperformed at Liege and Sky's one-day form and record isn't too bad actually they've got a lot of wins and been knocking on the door of monuments every year except 2013, they're da better than Astana and Tinkoff in the monuments even with Sagan Tinkoff could have done better, this monument has been and long time coming and you forget that sky haven't placed outside of the top 5 in monuments this year (2nd maybe soon 1st at MSR, 5th and RVV, 3rd at Roubaix and 1st at Liege) so saying that this is an anomaly is just wrong based on results.
 
It's a bit like saying why do Sky usually win the Tour. Since 2012 they have lost one when Froome crashed out in 2014. The main reason they don't win the Giro is because they don't send their number one GT rider to the race and as previously noted they have had some misfortune. Of course when Sky has misfortune it is seen as a poor excuse for not being good enough. For anyone else it is seen as plain bad luck. Froome will win the Tour again this year and the same questions can be asked all over again. The only rider who could beat Froome this year is Richie Porte but only if the race was over two weeks not three. Quintana and his team blew his big chance last year by riding too conservatively and doing what the Schlecks did against Evans in 2011, attacking when the race was all over.
 

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