Wiggins, Clinic respect?

[hrotha]

Out of interest I asked what mine was after a test last year. It was 49.9. Following a recent operation I did the same. It was 53.1.
It can be hereditary. PS I am much too old to bother with doping!

If you were a professional cyclist at the time you could have proved it and got a certificate for a naturally high hematocrit and an exemption that would allow you to go all the way up to 52%.

When your biological passport has very suspicious values, they ask you for medical justification before suspending you. Surgery would certainly fit the bill.

So no, your case is not comparable to Hayles's.

 

[Joachim]

Back to the original point. No two teams will be an exact replica in doping. But Sky are fairly darn close to USPS.

Meaningless guff.

Time will be the judge. But they don't appear to be very forthcoming on details when it comes to dopers hired into their team.
.

Forthcoming? That's because it's none of your business. The expunging of staff, overtly or covertly (Yates & co, one presumes) was done professionally.

I expect you'd have preferred a lynch mob

 

[JimmyFingers]

Hayles is only vaguely relevant to a discussion of track cycling or David Brailsford, not relevant at all to Sky pro-tour team and even less, if possible, to a thread discussing Wiggins' recent comments on Lance.

Hayles' blood values deserve their own thread and discussion but shouldn't be brought up lazily in any Sky-related thread to beat the same old tired drum.

Too many Sky threads, whatever their original subject, just end up as general discussions of British cyclists and Sky staff, their past etc

 

[thehog]

Hayles is only vaguely relevant to a discussion of track cycling or David Brailsford, not relevant at all to Sky pro-tour team and even less, if possible, to a thread discussing Wiggins' recent comments on Lance.

Hayles' blood values deserve their own thread and discussion but shouldn't be brought up lazily in any Sky-related thread to beat the same old tired drum.

Too many Sky threads, whatever their original subject, just end up as general discussions of British cyclists and Sky staff, their past etc

Jimmy you're late to the party.

Halyes is being discussed as one of your Sky-bots said that Sky never had a cortisone positive like USPS. Therefore Sky are clean and nothing like USPS. Hayles was brought up to demonstrate that Brailsford has a history of carpet sweeping and then cutting those who don't follow the program. Getting caught is not an option.

In future could you briefly read the thread before commenting? This so we can keep the flow of the thread without you slowing it down.

Thank-you.

 

[RownhamHill]

As I pointed out to Joachim when he addressed this before. Armstrong had a TUE for the cortisone and the level found was tiny. If you have a TUE then yes there is nothing illegal taking place. This was a story dragged up by Le Monde newspaper to create a bit of controversy. Nothing to see here.

Now what we have learned since puts a completely different spin on thing's but at that time it was a nothing story. SKY having a doctor who organised the doping programme at another team is much more serious.

I understand the point you're putting forward, but I don't agree with it. So I'm right in thinking this was a failed drug test, during the race, that (some parts of) the media reported on during the race, and the UCI put out a press-release to 'clarify'? And hadn't Armstrong already told the media he wasn't taking anything he needed a TUE for, before producing a back dated when the need arrived? And regardless of the 'tiny' amount, and regardless of the TUE, by the - you know - actual rules he should have been disqualified in any case (http://inrng.com/2013/01/armstrong-1999-positive/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+inrng%2Finrng0+%28The+Inner+Ring%29)

I'm not arguing the media didn't ignore all this. (Nor that this wasn't anything but a shameful episode in cycling journalism.)

But to say that the above - ie actually failing a drugs test during the race itself, then producing a backdated TUE that should have resulted in disqualificaiton - is less serious than having a member of staff with a dodgy past, seemingly on the basis that it was only a French newspaper who mentioned it at the time is, in my opinion, absurd to the point of hilarity.

 

[RownhamHill]

Out of interest I asked what mine was after a test last year. It was 49.9. Following a recent operation I did the same. It was 53.1.
It can be hereditary. PS I am much too old to bother with doping!

Yeah, but do you know Dave Brailsford?

 

[D-Queued]

Jimmy you're late to the party.

Halyes is being discussed as one of your Sky-bots said that Sky never had a cortisone positive like USPS. Therefore Sky are clean and nothing like USPS. Hayles was brought up to demonstrate that Brailsford has a history of carpet sweeping and then cutting those who don't follow the program. Getting caught is not an option.

In future could you briefly read the thread before commenting? This so we can keep the flow of the thread without you slowing it down.

Thank-you.

And all of this in a thread entitled, "Wiggins, Clinic respect?"

Of course, that was a rhetorical question. Why on earth would a come-out-of-nowhere, dope-smoking, Lance loving cyclist on a team following the USPS playbook while hiring every shady character not named Fuentes deserve any Clinic respect?

Even though we are not discussing the obvious, we now have multiple Sky related threads active all long ago having converged on the same topic.

Getting the Reader's Digest update every so often can help keep some of us tuned in.

Being graduate level or not is beside the point.* Thanks for the refresher.

Dave.

*It has been my observation that unless they are pursuing one of the professions (e.g. Law, Medicine, Business) a typical grad student is too far up their test tubes to afford practical understanding or pursue meaningful discourse anyway.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

"Rob was devastated when I told him," said Brailsford. "He felt disbelief. He had to phone home to tell his wife. When you listen to someone making that phone call, you sense whether someone is telling the truth."

Brailsford is convinced, for the moment, that Hayles was telling him the truth when he assured him, on Wednesday morning, that he had not taken anything.

So, this man is let to lead to biggest budget cycling team in history? Or he is a liar - what he is in my book - or he is just naive. Given the fact he was at the David Millar bust back in 2004 [?] he is a lying cheat.

And yes, this is SKY material. Sir Dave is the main man of SKY, build up with lies and cheating.

What will the budget be this year for PR on the books? Guess the buy off of Yates/de Jong/Leinders/Bartolucci et all the rest will be in the millions.

 

[RownhamHill]

Jimmy you're late to the party.

Halyes is being discussed as one of your Sky-bots said that Sky never had a cortisone positive like USPS. Therefore Sky are clean and nothing like USPS. Hayles was brought up to demonstrate that Brailsford has a history of carpet sweeping and then cutting those who don't follow the program. Getting caught is not an option.

In future could you briefly read the thread before commenting? This so we can keep the flow of the thread without you slowing it down.

Thank-you.

Ermmmm. Hayles is being discussed because you brought him up and drew a direct parallel with the way his case was handled by Brailsford and the USPS cortisone case. Although, as you're now claiming this direct parallel involved 'cutting those who don't follow the program', it seems an even more unlikely comparison, since after he got caught Bruynell gave Lance, what 9 more chances at the tour?

Skybot? I thought you didn't like posters calling other posters names other than their full cyclingnews Forum names.

 

[Joachim]

Standard Hoggie tactics, Rownham.

 

[Mellow Velo]

It makes Sky even more like USPS/Astana.

Same team manager, different team, same result - doping.

Nice try though. I'll give you two more goes...

No more goes required.
I totally disagree with your weak logic, you disagree with my reasoning.
No surprises there.

This is why I enter this poisonous arena.
I see one positive SKY test down the road being used
to paint the entire cycling nation as dopers.

That's the same as if one of the young OGE riders ever gets caught, Anna Meares is a doper. Ridiculous.

I remember at the time, the speculation was that if Hayles had doped, he'd gone rogue, because he wasn't making the numbers to make the Olympic cut.

 

[thehog]

Ermmmm. Hayles is being discussed because you brought him up and drew a direct parallel with the way his case was handled by Brailsford and the USPS cortisone case. Although, as you're now claiming this direct parallel involved 'cutting those who don't follow the program', it seems an even more unlikely comparison, since after he got caught Bruynell gave Lance, what 9 more chances at the tour?

Skybot? I thought you didn't like posters calling other posters names other than their full cyclingnews Forum names.

Of course I brought it up. I thought it was an excellent example for the Sky-bots who were shuffling away from anything USPS.

Brailsford has had his “cortisone TUE” moment just like Bruyneel. He’ll have several more in the coming months/years. Judging by the way he handled Leinders/Yates and co. his method is to sweep under the carpet. Fortunately the media in Britain is not asking the questions. That might not always be the case.

Btw Sky-bots is a generic term. Not for any one forum person. I always address people by their names.

 

[thehog]

No more goes required.
I totally disagree with your weak logic, you disagree with my reasoning.
No surprises there.

This is why I enter this poisonous arena.
I see one positive SKY test down the road being used
to paint the entire cycling nation as dopers.

That's the same as if one of the young OGE riders ever gets caught, Anna Meares is a doper. Ridiculous.

I remember at the time, the speculation was that if Hayles had doped, he'd gone rogue, because he wasn't making the numbers to make the Olympic cut.

I sense anger. Why? Also why get personal? Why do you viscously chase my posts down. I think it’s better if you behave respectfully to all.

Thank-you.

I don’t think the Clinic is poisonous. Many people come here for information they can’t get elsewhere or from mainstream press. Why do you come here if it’s so “poisonous”? Maybe you really like it here? I think the Clinic is an excellent forum. There’s always BikeRadar if you want to hangout in a Sky friendly environment.

Doesn’t matter if Hayles was doping or not. It was Brailsford’s “cortisone-TUE” moment and he dealt with it with the same aplomb as Bruyneel. Next he’ll be looking into athletes eyes for “the truth” – oh!, my bad, he tried that with Halyes!

And what has Anna Mears got to do with this? OH she’s Pendleton’s arch enemy and from another country! Nice deflect

 

[mastersracer]

Perhaps at least one should try to stay on topic, which is - purportedly - Wiggins latest statements regarding Armstrong. There are many Sky threads open for comments pertaining to them.

 

[Joachim]

I sense anger. Why? Also why get personal? Why do you viscously chase my posts down. I think it’s better if you behave respectfully for to all.

Ha lol at the "viciously (sic) chase my posts down"

He's responding to you, it's a forum!

Poor wee hog. That he has to resort to tactics like this

 

[bianchigirl]

You're leaving out one other piece of evidence that makes sky truly uk postal - the evidence of your own eyes.

First MTF of the tour and the entire team puts the lid well & truly on the race? With riders like dodger Rodgers setting the pace? Put that together with leinders and then ask yourself this question: if I'd been watching Astana (or lampre or RSNT) would I still be protesting that I was watching a clean team?

 

[thehog]

You're leaving out one other piece of evidence that makes sky truly uk postal - the evidence of your own eyes.

First MTF of the tour and the entire team puts the lid well & truly on the race? With riders like dodger Rodgers setting the pace? Put that together with leinders and then ask yourself this question: if I'd been watching Astana (or lampre or RSNT) would I still be protesting that I was watching a clean team?

As LS always says. If it was Bradula Wiggini and Christian Fromini from Lampre everyone on the forum would be calling them cheaters.

 

[Wiggo Warrior]

You're leaving out one other piece of evidence that makes sky truly uk postal - the evidence of your own eyes.

First MTF of the tour and the entire team puts the lid well & truly on the race? With riders like dodger Rodgers setting the pace? Put that together with leinders and then ask yourself this question: if I'd been watching Astana (or lampre or RSNT) would I still be protesting that I was watching a clean team?

I've seen some comments from a member of the peloton (may have been Pinot? I think whoever it was was a local climber who knew the roads well) that the problem wasn't the actual climb speed but the fact that EBH's sprint leadout all the way up to the bottom of the climb already had the climbers in the red. Rogers et al. just didn't give them any time to recover.

This could possibly explain Cancellara doing comparatively well against a lot of the other climbers too.

 

[ebandit]

vrooom

As LS always says. If it was Bradula Wiggini and Christian Fromini from Lampre everyone on the forum would be calling them cheaters.

but hoggie it's brad wiggo / chris froome and as many are calling them cheaters

glad you enjoy the forum............surely discussions should be around 'are sky doping................how?'

 

[pmcg76]

I understand the point you're putting forward, but I don't agree with it. So I'm right in thinking this was a failed drug test, during the race, that (some parts of) the media reported on during the race, and the UCI put out a press-release to 'clarify'? And hadn't Armstrong already told the media he wasn't taking anything he needed a TUE for, before producing a back dated when the need arrived? And regardless of the 'tiny' amount, and regardless of the TUE, by the - you know - actual rules he should have been disqualified in any case (http://inrng.com/2013/01/armstrong-1999-positive/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+inrng%2Finrng0+%28The+Inner+Ring%29)

I'm not arguing the media didn't ignore all this. (Nor that this wasn't anything but a shameful episode in cycling journalism.)

But to say that the above - ie actually failing a drugs test during the race itself, then producing a backdated TUE that should have resulted in disqualificaiton - is less serious than having a member of staff with a dodgy past, seemingly on the basis that it was only a French newspaper who mentioned it at the time is, in my opinion, absurd to the point of hilarity.

Ok, maybe this is my fault for saying positive drug test originally.

It was not a positive drug test, the amount of cortisone measured was below the level required to trigger a positive test. Not a positive test.

 

[del1962]

You're leaving out one other piece of evidence that makes sky truly uk postal - the evidence of your own eyes.

First MTF of the tour and the entire team puts the lid well & truly on the race? With riders like dodger Rodgers setting the pace? Put that together with leinders and then ask yourself this question: if I'd been watching Astana (or lampre or RSNT) would I still be protesting that I was watching a clean team?

hmm having a plan for the stage and carrying out means doping, I hope you never sit on a jury.

 

[Mellow Velo]

I sense anger. Why? Also why get personal? Why do you viscously chase my posts down. I think it’s better if you behave respectfully to all.

Thank-you.

Anger? No, more like disinterested.
So, I just agreed to disagree. Vicious? I think not.
I think you are over now playing the personal attack card, much.
Besides, somehow I can't quite picture you as a victim: more the spider than the fly.


As for the rest of your post?
See reply above.

 

[SundayRider]

As LS always says. If it was Bradula Wiggini and Christian Fromini from Lampre everyone on the forum would be calling them cheaters.

I said exactly the same to friend (who is a big Sky fan) the other day, at first he didn't agree but when I pointed out the way they rode the Tour, Leinders etc etc he agreed entirely.

 

[JimmyFingers]

Jimmy you're late to the party.

Halyes is being discussed as one of your Sky-bots said that Sky never had a cortisone positive like USPS. Therefore Sky are clean and nothing like USPS. Hayles was brought up to demonstrate that Brailsford has a history of carpet sweeping and then cutting those who don't follow the program. Getting caught is not an option.

In future could you briefly read the thread before commenting? This so we can keep the flow of the thread without you slowing it down.

Thank-you.

I didn't need to read the thread to know it was miles off-topic. None of that is relevant to a thread discussing Wiggins' statements about Armstrong.

 

[ferryman]

OK. Deep breath folks. Please cut out the bickering and personals. And stay ON TOPIC. Let's get the thread back on track.