Wiggins, Clinic respect?

[rata de sentina]

You are wrong:

or this article is wrong.

The article is clearly wrong since it talks about "testosterone ratio for epitestosterone" being less than 6 and then corticosteroids in the same paragraph. As far as I know the analytical test for exogenous testosterone uses similar methodology (GC-MS) but is reported completely separately to corticosteroids.

Actually that raises the question of what was the level detected in 1999 since the information given is clearly incorrect.

 

[JimmyFingers]

Ive been having this frustrating discussion with Sir Wiggo fanbois on twitter. Simple fact is Sir Wiggo changes his story to suit the narrative, and has backflipped numerous times:
2007 (after Cofidis ejected) - winning ITT by 2 minutes to win TdF is cheating, teams with doping doctors should be dumped, every aspect of doping should be open to scrutiny
2010 - I LOVE Lance, best thing ever to happen to cycling
2012 - bone idle lazy ****ers, ****s
2012 - USADA are a disgrace, the witnesses are lyers, Lance is great
2012- I actually never raced Lance except 2004 CritInt, he is sooo 90s
2013 - lying cheating *******, in 2009 I knew Lance was cheating just from looking at him on Ventoux...

the importance of this last statement is Sir Wiggo just admitted he KNEW in his own mind Lance was a cheat in 2009, before all the bromance BS last couple of years.

Fair enough, a fairly concise timeline on Brad's public statements. But it also highlights to me the sheer paucity of material people base this on. Bromance is severely over-stating Brad's relationship with Lance. It's a nice tabloid-style approach and suits your narrative, but it's not as if Brad was running with him with his shirt off on a daily basis like Mcconaughey.

Also if you're looking for consistent statements you're barking up the wrong tree: Bradley strikes me as obtuse, volatile and frequently disinterested when dealing with the press. Clearly he neither enjoys nor is particularly adept at dealing with having a microphone stuck in his face. These aren't well-thought out theories he's coming out with, researched and well-argued like a post-grad dissertation. These are off-the-cuff soundbites, often saying what he thinks people want to hear, other times personal and passionate.

I'm aware the inconsistencies are there, I'm just not sure they bear up to close analysis, and certainly extrapolating them into some argument for some sort of doping association between him and Lance, considering they were riding on different teams, is fanciful. And fanciful is generous.

 

[Benotti69]

Sounds like the Wiggo of 2007 is truly long gone.

He misses his old pals

"Bradley Wiggins takes issue with Team Sky's zero tolerance approach"

"We've had this zero tolerance from the point we started and we've never veered off that, to the point that riders who've admitted to problems in the past have moved on,” reflected Wiggins.

http://road.cc/content/news/74782-bradley-wiggins-takes-issue-team-skys-zero-tolerance-approach#comment-143541

He even contradicts himself in the 1st sentence.

'Zero tolerance' to 'never veered off that'. Fran to the Wiggo phone quick!

 

[JimmyFingers]

Sounds like the Wiggo of 2007 is truly long gone.

He misses his old pals

"Bradley Wiggins takes issue with Team Sky's zero tolerance approach"



http://road.cc/content/news/74782-bradley-wiggins-takes-issue-team-skys-zero-tolerance-approach#comment-143541

He even contradicts himself in the 1st sentence.

'Zero tolerance' to 'never veered off that'. Fran to the Wiggo phone quick!

Wiggins doesn't dictate Sky team policy, unless I missed the memo. As for him in 2007, please refer to the answer I gave moments ago

 

[SundayRider]

Dealing with the press is as much a part of elite sport as performing on the field (in this case road) is. You can't use personality traits to defend this, its part of the job that he simply rubbish at.

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

'Zero tolerance' to 'never veered off that'. Fran to the Wiggo phone quick!

How is that a contradiction?

 

[JimmyFingers]

Dealing with the press is as much a part of elite sport as performing on the field (in this case road) is. You can't use personality traits to defend this, its part of the job that he simply rubbish at.

Equally so you can't use his poor dealing with the press as evidence of doping. I don't think I was using 'personality traits' to defend him, just pointed out the paucity of comments from him over the years and how much people here read into it, despite that paucity.

 

[RownhamHill]

2012 - USADA are a disgrace, the witnesses are lyers, Lance is great

This is new to me - when did he say anything like this?

 

[SundayRider]

Equally so you can't use his poor dealing with the press as evidence of doping. I don't think I was using 'personality traits' to defend him, just pointed out the paucity of comments from him over the years and how much people here read into it, despite that paucity.

I don't think they can be used as 'evidence' for doping either. However if you are overtly anti-doping one year and then wishy washy around the subject the next year it does make people think that if what he preaches has changed then what he practices may have changed too. You could never say it is 'evidence' though.

It's a bit like when someone gets a promotion at work, when they were a regular worker they may say different things about the company/their boss etc however when they become a manager themselves they soon become a clone of other managers and 'toe the party line' when expressing their views etc.

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

This is new to me - when did he say anything like this?

I would also be interested in reading the interview where he said this.

 

[JimmyFingers]

I don't think they can be used as 'evidence' for doping either. However if you are overtly anti-doping one year and then wishy washy around the subject the next year it does make people think that if what he preaches has changed then what he practices may have changed too. You could never say it is 'evidence' though.

It's a bit like when someone gets a promotion at work, when they were a regular worker they may say different things about the company/their boss etc however when they become a manager themselves they soon become a clone of other managers and 'toe the party line' when expressing their views etc.

Good points well made. I also think you have to factor in changes over time: I may well give a very different answer to the same question if asked it now and six years ago.

That's not to say Wiggins should be more consistent. I have expressed dismay here at some things he has said, specifically what he recently said about Kimmage. I just think there is a habit of reading far too much into, over-analysising what is threadbare set of utterances spread out over a number of years.

 

[cineteq]

Wiggins' flip-flopping continues.

"Bradley Wiggins has confirmed that he is ready to attempt the extremely rare and difficult feat of winning the Giro d'Italia and Tour de France in the same season."

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/video-wiggins-ready-for-to-challenge-for-giro-tour-double

 

[the sceptic]

"It's an incredibly tough thing to do but Tim (Kerrison) assures me it can be done. I'd love the challenge of trying to do that. I love the Giro. It's a race I've always warmed too," Wiggins said.

"I remember watching it as a kid when [Miguel] Indurain was winning it. I'd love to say I've won the Tour and the Giro. That's the challenge, that's the goal."

I see Wiggo has got himself a new love

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

I see Wiggo has got himself a new love

Lol, first thing that came in my mind too

So Tim is the new Padilla, they must have been working on his cadence the last two months. Let the games begin.

 

[Cyivel]

Oh God, I look forward to this place if he even gets close to succeeding.

 

[happychappy]

Oh God, I look forward to this place if he even gets close to succeeding.

It would be beautiful.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Oh God, I look forward to this place if he even gets close to succeeding.

The Leipheimer-wins-the-Tour-de-Suisse thread would become nothing more than a cheap, weak dress rehearsal.

 

[JimmyFingers]

This place is the master of spin. Whatever Wiggins says gets twisted beyond any recognition.

Let the games begin? Sorta betrays the reason you are here, doesn't it?

 

[D-Queued]

Wiggins' flip-flopping continues.

"Bradley Wiggins has confirmed that he is ready to attempt the extremely rare and difficult feat of winning the Giro d'Italia and Tour de France in the same season."

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/video-wiggins-ready-for-to-challenge-for-giro-tour-double

Can we offer a shot at the Hour as an opportunity to ice the cake?

Dave.

 

[thirteen]

so he waits until Contador confirms he isn't going to try for it???

my responsive when i saw that is not repeatable on this forum due to certain filters. rest assured, Sir Bradley would approve. we speak the same language.

see you next tuesday.

 

[The Hitch]

Wiggins' flip-flopping continues.

"Bradley Wiggins has confirmed that he is ready to attempt the extremely rare and difficult feat of winning the Giro d'Italia and Tour de France in the same season."

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/video-wiggins-ready-for-to-challenge-for-giro-tour-double

Dont see what that has to do with the clinic.

Theres plenty enough against wiggins without having to bring in totally unrelated comments he says into it. I thought a week ban for the hog would give us a restbite from that.

Its just talk from Wiggins anyway. As much as id love to see wiggins try to challenge Froome 100% earned right to a shot at the 2013 Tour, its not going to happen.

Giro for Wiggins. Big media hassle about how hes the defending champion at the start of the Tour for Wiggins. Tour for Froome - with Wiggins in the train.

 

[thirteen]

Hitch, we're trying to keep The Hog's spirit alive while he's gone. something wrong with that? where's your sense of whimsy?

seriously, Wiggins came out with something i respected earlier today when he criticised the zero tolerance. yeah, it was way too late (and probably a new pr person), but still...

and then he spouts this nonsense.

please!

 

[northstar]

Wiggins is economical with the truth. Just too many contradictory statements made by him over the years for my liking. He seems to be a smart but lazy type of person. Perhaps there's some type of cognitive dissonance going on with him.

Or perhaps his strategy is.... if you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with B.S.

I expect a major meltdown from him this summer. And if he surprises me otherwise, good for him.

 

[JimmyFingers]

so he waits until Contador confirms he isn't going to try for it???

my responsive when i saw that is not repeatable on this forum due to certain filters. rest assured, Sir Bradley would approve. we speak the same language.

see you next tuesday.

I don't get this: Wiggins has been talking about the Giro being a main target for months, and I fail to see what relevance this has to a clinic debate. You clearly have a strong antipathy towards the chap, not sure that makes you a good commentator on his actions.

 

[ebandit]

just like the clinic

Wiggins is economical with the truth. Just too many contradictory statements made by him over the years for my liking. He seems to be a smart but lazy type of person. Perhaps there's some type of cognitive dissonance going on with him.

Or perhaps his strategy is.... if you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with B.S.

I expect a major meltdown from him this summer. And if he surprises me otherwise, good for him.

just like here in the clinic....wiggins economical with the truth...hoggie
too............hardly polar opposites

what do i read most here............brilliance or bs?

and meltdowns are rather frequent