Wiggins, Clinic respect?

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Don't see Ferrari hating Garmin in general circa 2009. Many of the riders and directors he would have had contact with in the past at USPS and it's well before people started talking.

Maybe he had a client on the team who didn't like Brad :eek: Probably something as simple as Wiggins calling him out in 2007.
 
Wiggins consitent?

I hope this is not off topic, but I've just been reading about Beethoven.
Famously inconsistent: couldn't make his mind up about hardly anything.
Gave contradictory comments left right & centre.
Was without doubt the greatest of his day, the real leader, and generally had his heart in the right place, but consistent? No
Made me think about Wiggins.....well, some bits, anyway!
 
Jul 17, 2012
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Ferminal said:
Don't see Ferrari hating Garmin in general circa 2009. Many of the riders and directors he would have had contact with in the past at USPS and it's well before people started talking.

Maybe he had a client on the team who didn't like Brad :eek: Probably something as simple as Wiggins calling him out in 2007.
LA was contemptuous of clean riders of course, presumably Ferrari shared that with him. There's the 'choad' name-calling, but he mocked David Millar on his return from his ban. If memory serves he called him 'Saint Millar' or 'Radio Millar' because of his sanctimonious position on doping, in which case it could be Millar that was being referred to, but presumably LA also didn't like JV and his 'born again clean' approach at Garmin.
 
Oct 30, 2011
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coinneach said:
I hope this is not off topic, but I've just been reading about Beethoven.
Famously inconsistent: couldn't make his mind up about hardly anything.
Gave contradictory comments left right & centre.
Was without doubt the greatest of his day, the real leader, and generally had his heart in the right place, but consistent? No
Made me think about Wiggins.....well, some bits, anyway!
Amusing, sort of on-topic, but also totally irrelevant. Beethoven was the leader of his day, but not in an activity widely recognised to be tainted by illegal behaviour. If (say) marijuana smoking had been prevalent among composers at the time yet also banned from usage because it gave composers a competitive advantage when composing and Beethoven had made lots of vastly contradictory statements about the usage (or lack thereof) of marijuana it would be relevant.

The timeline would instead look like this:
2007 Beethoven is a low-ranking composer kicked out of an orchestral competition because his violinist was high. Talks about how much he hates pot users and that those at the top simply have to accept there will be questions about pot.
2009 Beethoven suddenly becomes the 4th best composer in the world, only one behind all-time great Mozart, widely rumoured to have smoked tons of weed during his 7 consecutive "best composer" titles from 1999-2005. Gone are the rants, and Beethoven says "I love Mozart".
2012 Beethoven ranked best composer, says he hates the "lazy bone-idle cyouents" you say he might have smoked weed.
2013 Mozart admits to being a stoner and his 7 titles are vacated. Beethoven says he knew that Mozart was high in 2009.
 
Jul 17, 2012
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Caruut said:
Amusing, sort of on-topic, but also totally irrelevant. Beethoven was the leader of his day, but not in an activity widely recognised to be tainted by illegal behaviour. If (say) marijuana smoking had been prevalent among composers at the time yet also banned from usage because it gave composers a competitive advantage when composing and Beethoven had made lots of vastly contradictory statements about the usage (or lack thereof) of marijuana it would be relevant.

The timeline would instead look like this:
2007 Beethoven is a low-ranking composer kicked out of an orchestral competition because his violinist was high. Talks about how much he hates pot users and that those at the top simply have to accept there will be questions about pot.
2009 Beethoven suddenly becomes the 4th best composer in the world, only one behind all-time great Mozart, widely rumoured to have smoked tons of weed during his 7 consecutive "best composer" titles from 1999-2005. Gone are the rants, and Beethoven says "I love Mozart".
2012 Beethoven ranked best composer, says he hates the "lazy bone-idle cyouents" you say he might have smoked weed.
2013 Mozart admits to being a stoner and his 7 titles are vacated. Beethoven says he knew that Mozart was high in 2009.
Mozart is maybe not a bad analogy for Lance. A high achiever, who squandered it all in the usual ways men find to squander things. He died young, buried in a pauper's grave, outlived by his far less talented rival, Salieri, who allegedly poisoned him.

Maybe Kimmage could be Salieri...
 
coinneach said:
I hope this is not off topic, but I've just been reading about Beethoven.
Famously inconsistent: couldn't make his mind up about hardly anything.
Gave contradictory comments left right & centre.
Was without doubt the greatest of his day, the real leader, and generally had his heart in the right place, but consistent? No
Made me think about Wiggins.....well, some bits, anyway!
That would only work if Wiggins came back out tomorrow to say he loves lance again. Then you can argue he cant make his mind up and some mental defense.

As it is he made his mind up very well as he held the same position for 3 years and held it passionately. Until it became politically inconvenient to hold the position.

As for the genius analogy, aside from that, physical talent is a totally different ball game to musical talent or any brain based talents. Genius in wont produce the same sideeffects you are thinking of.

for example I dont see savants who learn to fly or learn to run the 100m in 4 seconds. No they learn to play 2 pianos at a time despite being blind, or to read 300 page novels in an hour and remember every word.
 
The Hitch said:
That would only work if Wiggins came back out tomorrow to say he loves lance again. Then you can argue he cant make his mind up and some mental defense.

As it is he made his mind up very well as he held the same position for 3 years and held it passionately. Until it became politically inconvenient to hold the position.

As for the genius analogy, aside from that, physical talent is a totally different ball game to musical talent or any brain based talents. Genius in wont produce the same sideeffects you are thinking of.

for example I dont see savants who learn to fly or learn to run the 100m in 4 seconds. No they learn to play 2 pianos at a time despite being blind, or to read 300 page novels in an hour and remember every word.
My point was and is that no one is that bothered that Beethoven said/wrote some contradictory things and changed his mind.

Obviously Wiggins isn't such a colossal genius:( but should we really be bothered if he's not totally consistent?

At least he speaks his mind (at the time) and has been so far the only cyclist to come out against the way cycling has been managed in general, and his own team in particular. I think that deserves respect, but of course all he gets here is pages of abuse.

One other similarity with Beethoven: he doesn't give a t*** what others think about him, and I for one am heartily grateful!
 
May 3, 2010
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Caruut said:
Amusing, sort of on-topic, but also totally irrelevant. Beethoven was the leader of his day, but not in an activity widely recognised to be tainted by illegal behaviour. If (say) marijuana smoking had been prevalent among composers at the time yet also banned from usage because it gave composers a competitive advantage when composing and Beethoven had made lots of vastly contradictory statements about the usage (or lack thereof) of marijuana it would be relevant.

The timeline would instead look like this:
2007 Beethoven is a low-ranking composer kicked out of an orchestral competition because his violinist was high. Talks about how much he hates pot users and that those at the top simply have to accept there will be questions about pot.
2009 Beethoven suddenly becomes the 4th best composer in the world, only one behind all-time great Mozart, widely rumoured to have smoked tons of weed during his 7 consecutive "best composer" titles from 1999-2005. Gone are the rants, and Beethoven says "I love Mozart".
2012 Beethoven ranked best composer, says he hates the "lazy bone-idle cyouents" you say he might have smoked weed.
2013 Mozart admits to being a stoner and his 7 titles are vacated. Beethoven says he knew that Mozart was high in 2009.
Who is our Beethoven's immortal beloved?
 
May 3, 2010
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coinneach said:
Paul Weller?
Sounds more like Armstrong:

You are suffering, you my dearest creature – only now do I realize that letters have to be posted very early, on Mondays – Thursdays – the only days when the mail is delivered to K. - you are suffering - Oh, wherever I am, you are with me, I talk to myself and to you[,] arrange [it] that I can live with you, what a life!!!! as it is!!!! without you – Pursued by the goodness of mankind here and there, the goodness that I wish to deserve as little as I deserve it. – Man’s humility towards man – this pains me – and when I consider myself in relation to the universe, what am I and what is the man who is called the greatest? – And yet, – therein lies the divine element in man. I weep when I think that you will probably not receive first news of me until Saturday. However as much as you love me - I love you even more deeply, but - but never hide yourself from me - Good night – as I am taking the baths I must go to bed. ⟨oh go with me, go with me⟩ Oh God - so near! so far! Is not our love a true edifice in Heaven - but also as firm as the firmament. –
Even takes the time to get in about the ice baths and to be fair, Beethoven makes about as much sense as Wiggins.
 
Mrs John Murphy said:
Even takes the time to get in about the ice baths and to be fair, Beethoven makes about as much sense as Wiggins.
You have just gone WAY up in my estimation, Mrs John Murphy!

have you seen the film of the same name?

If that were true, we'd be looking at Mrs Chris Froome here!:eek:
 
Mar 13, 2009
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^ hehehehehe


but he has that JPSartre bad faith in the pre-thatcher 70's brit music Who etc, and his own take on blair's bs new britannia.

apart from the ascot and mutton chops, he needs to don some bell ends. This is the boot-cut, not the jock strap.
 
May 13, 2011
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If we are comparing Beethoven's psychological profile with Sir Wiggo, then perchance I'd hope the dear sir Wiggo has a very good TUE for lithium and a few other powerful things. Given that this is the clinic, would any manic-depressive drugs give good performance benefits?

I honestly hope that the correlation in this thread is speculative and completely untrue.
 
Jan 31, 2013
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Random Direction said:
Given that this is the clinic, would any manic-depressive drugs give good performance benefits?
No. Lithium has a diuretic effect, but that's followed by acute renal toxicity -- so, you'll flush out the EPO, but you'll collapse on the first hill. All the rest are anti-convulsant medications, which generally make you lethargic and put on weight (except for lamotrigine, which makes you agitated and lose weight, which will help -- until you develop an intractable loss of coordination and lose all ability to sit on a bike, let alone navigate one through a peloton).

Incidentally, I have no respect for Bradley Wiggins. Whether he's a doper or not, I have no idea. He is, however, an ****-of-a-man who reacts to everything in one of three ways: 1) self-interested arrogance; 2) overwhelming indifference; 3) unbridled anger. He's a petulant child who has developed nothing beyond a very primitive set of emotional responses. No respect.
 
nicomachus said:
Incidentally, I have no respect for Bradley Wiggins. Whether he's a doper or not, I have no idea. He is, however, an ****-of-a-man who reacts to everything in one of three ways: 1) self-interested arrogance; 2) overwhelming indifference; 3) unbridled anger. He's a petulant child who has developed nothing beyond a very primitive set of emotional responses. No respect.
Welcome to the Clinic! Apart from not knowing that he's a doper, I think you'll fit in just fine!:mad:
 
Mar 13, 2009
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Hugh Januss said:
You are an idiot. Nobody pays any attention to hoggie, B69 and sniper are a bit extreme, blackcat posts when he wants to. Those guys (other than thehog) know what they are talking about, but they do not represent the mainstream of clinic posters. If you think they do then you must sober up and try to get a life because it doesn't seem to happening for you right now.
+ Smear Wiggo :)
 
Oct 14, 2012
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I really thought that Wiggins comments were strange. I won the Tour and everything else last year, now this year, I wan to just win the Giro. Seems odd to me.
 
Aug 13, 2010
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howsteepisit said:
I really thought that Wiggins comments were strange. I won the Tour and everything else last year, now this year, I wan to just win the Giro. Seems odd to me.
He addesses it in the article

I didn’t want to lack motivation at Paris-Nice and have direct comparison with last year all the time. There was only one outcome unless I won it all again and that would have been to fail. I really wanted to avoid that. I didn’t want to put that pressure on myself.
 

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