Wiggins Discussion thread.

[Parrulo]

moved the posts from the contador thread discussing wiggins to it's proper place, continue the discussion here.

 

[cineteq]

moved the posts from the contador thread discussing wiggins to it's proper place, continue the discussion here.

Excellent, thanks!

 

[airstream]

Some other dude. No Way to tell. Race would have been totally different without a strong sky. But it most likely wouldnt have been wiggins if sky had been mediocre

It is just anti sky stance . I don't know what to say. )

Again, when Sky pull it works for others too. Aerodynamics laws work for all riders the same way. And if Froome pulls Wiggins whereas Nibali sucks Wiggins' wheel and then Nibali loses contact, it says Nibali is weaker than Wiggins on that particular day and nothing more. I don't see what you could oppose to Sky steady tempo. Maybe one's exposive attacks or overly successful long solo raids? Whose?

If Sky hadn't been that strong, I have difficulties to presume which team would take leading initiative instead of them. You present the things like... If Sky had been weak, we would see a cascade of beautiful resultative attacks and Wiggins would have lost him chances. 'Wiggins can not climb by himself' is an absolute myth. He climbed basically without team in 2009 and he did it more than adequately. It is obvious he got stronger in comparison to 2009. However, the forum almost unanimously ascribe the victory to the team... It is just other side of cycling in the mountains. Not very spectacular, temporizing, but often very effective. The thing that one may dislike it says only about sympathy/antipathy, but not about its strength. Strength and entertainment are often out of tune.

 

[oldcrank]

Guys, that's a simplistic, black and white approach. Cycling...or life for that matter does nor work like that.

You should go back over about 4000 of your posts about
Sky and BMW then mate.

Pot, kettle, etc.

 

[Netserk]

It is just anti sky stance . I don't know what to say. )

Again, when Sky pull it works for others too. Aerodynamics laws work for all riders the same way. And if Froome pulls Wiggins whereas Nibali sucks Wiggins' wheel and then Nibali loses contact, it says Nibali is weaker than Wiggins on that particular day and nothing more. I don't see what you could oppose to Sky steady tempo. Maybe one's exposive attacks or overly successful long solo raids? Whose?

If Sky hadn't been that strong, I have difficulties to presume which team would take leading initiative instead of them. You present the things like... If Sky had been weak, we would see a cascade of beautiful resultative attacks and Wiggins would have lost him chances. 'Wiggins can not climb by himself' is an absolute myth. He climbed basically without team in 2009 and he did it more than adequately. It is obvious he got stronger in comparison to 2009. However, the forum almost unanimously ascribe the victory to the team... It is just other side of cycling in the mountains. Not very spectacular, temporizing, but often very effective. The thing that one may dislike it says only about sympathy/antipathy, but not about its strength. Strength and entertainment are often out of tune.

CVV says you're full of it...

 

[Parrulo]

CVV says you're full of it...

indeed, CVV paced wiggins for all but 2 kilometers of la grand colombiere and that was enough for wiggins to crack big time.

if wiggins didn't have the support he had at this years tour and had a team like evans had in 2011 he would be isolated pretty fast and most likely crack.

are we supposed to forget that before froomes resurgence to life on la toussuire wiggins was already 25 seconds down on the nibali group and losing time while pacing himself? hell froome pacing him back up on a climb with a low % where drag is very important put him at the limit for a while.

 

[Cimber]

It is just anti sky stance . I don't know what to say. )

Anti Sky? I am actually prasing Sky for being so strong that they are able to carry Wiggins to victory. While I might not enjoy the way Sky drove in the TOur, it was damn effecient and u gotta give them that not many team could have brought Wiggins to victory. Kudos for a job very well done by Sky.

Sure Wiggins climbs well, as long as the pace is steady. He prolly would have gone top 5 or maybe higher with a bad team, but in my opinion he wouldnt have won. They would have dared to attack him way earlier and the attacks on the descents would have paid of (the Sky team effort made sure they didnt). If Sky had a bad team no other team would have towed him to victory - they would have rode anti-wiggins (early attacks, change of rythm, attacking on descents etc). Sky was so strong that no1 could get away with that though. As said: job well done. Really a team victory.

 

[airstream]

CVV says you're full of it...

VdV was pulling literally 3-4 k at Romme. Did it decide a lot?


OK, sorry, i'm wrong regardig 3-4 km. that was more. but anyways it didn't decide much. and i dont get what you want from wiggins. that he could go at speed of the schlecks who changed each other? colombier is pocked with 9% grades hence it is minimal draft. That helps wasn't decisive and no way point on the fact that Wiggins can climb alone.

 

[Dutchsmurf]

Hm, why Wiggins should have worked on the front being yellow jersey and having one more TT in store? He is an idiot. Wiggins would have defended calmly approximately like Contador in 2010. Even in a more easy key due to lack of attacking climbers in this year's Tour.

How do you suggest he defends without working on the front? Contador won it in 2010 by reacting to Andy's attacks and sealing it in the ITT. Wiggins would have never been able to pull that off that first part, even with climbers less skilled as Andy. We actually saw that happen. Without Froome pulling him back, who knows what would have happened and how much time he would have lost. He would also have been more tired by the time the final ITT arrived.

 

[Netserk]

VdV was pulling literally 3-4 k at Romme. Did it decide a lot?


OK, sorry, i'm wrong regardig 3-4 km. that was more. but anyways it didn't decide much. and i dont get what you want from wiggins. that he could go at speed of the schlecks who changed each other? colombier is pocked with 9% grades hence it is minimal draft. That helps wasn't decisive and no way point on the fact that Wiggins can climb alone.

It's not only the draft, but the knowledge that you have a team-mate around in case of a mechanical. For some riders (Wiggins appear as such) it is very important mentally to have another (team-mate) to set the pace or hang around, so that one isn't 'alone'.

 

[Parrulo]

to be honest i think that even with a normal team wiggins would either win or be very close to winning the tour due to the easy mountain stages and amount of itt km's, but it would be far from the certain thing it was.

just some trivia with little value, the first bmc rider after evans in 2011 was morabito finishing 48th 1 hour and 37 minutes down.

porte was the forth sky rider finishing 34th 1hour and 20 minutes down. forth!!!!!

 

[Afrank]

Lol, he abandoned to prepare for the Olympics. If he really cared that much about his wife he would've been with her in the final 2 weeks and focused on the Vuelta instead.

Besides Maxim Monfort took a helicopter during the Tour to see his newborn kid and then returned to the Tour. So I call bogus on that.

He had no reason not to be in shape during the Tour of 2011 by the way.

Lol , your running out of reasons to hate Cancellara, so your making them up. Now your trying to say he doesn't even care about his wife .

 

[burning]

to be honest i think that even with a normal team wiggins would either win or be very close to winning the tour due to the easy mountain stages and amount of itt km's, but it would be far from the certain thing it was.

just some trivia with little value, the first bmc rider after evans in 2011 was morabito finishing 48th 1 hour and 37 minutes down.

porte was the forth sky rider finishing 34th 1hour and 20 minutes down. forth!!!!!

Salvodelli was the worst case I can found, (feel free to find even worse case) his best teammate Pavel Padrnos was 60th, 2 hour and 10 minutes down

 

[cineteq]

to be honest i think that even with a normal team wiggins would either win or be very close to winning the tour due to the easy mountain stages and amount of itt km's, but it would be far from the certain thing it was.

Wiggins thought otherwise, he wanted to leave the Tour after Froome 'attacked' him.

 

[El Pistolero]

Lol , your running out of reasons to hate Cancellara, so your making them up. Now your trying to say he doesn't even care about his wife .

Not at all. Just saying, Cancellara abandoned for the Olympics, not his wife. Read my sentence again, I never say he doesn't care about his wife. Nor would I ever make such a statement. If every dad that misses the birth of his kid doesn't care for his wife... That's a silly statement.

You either ride the Tour with the intention of finishing it all the way or you don't.

 

[Afrank]

Not at all. Just saying, Cancellara abandoned for the Olympics, not his wife. Read my sentence again, I never say he doesn't care about his wife. Nor would I ever make such a statement. If every dad that misses the birth of his kid doesn't care for his wife... That's a silly statement.

You either ride the Tour with the intention of finishing it all the way or you don't.

It sounded a lot like you were saying he didn't care about his wife in this part of your post.

Lol, he abandoned to prepare for the Olympics. If he really cared that much about his wife he would've been with her in the final 2 weeks and focused on the Vuelta instead.

Preparation for the Olympics was probably part of the reason, but I think it is ridiculous to say that the birth of his child isn't another major part of his reasons for leaving the race. And it's not like his presence would do much for the team if he had stayed in the race.

 

[The Hitch]

Wiggins thought otherwise, he wanted to leave the Tour after Froome 'attacked' him.

Thats just wiggins talking **** as always. He was a better climber than Nibali and 10 times the tter. On that Tour route, with that lineup, Wiggins was always going to be the winner, team or no team.

 

[cineteq]

Thats just wiggins talking **** as always. He was a better climber than Nibali and 10 times the tter. On that Tour route, with that lineup, Wiggins was always going to be the winner, team or no team.

You understand that you're going on record for saying this? Since you agree with airstream, can you do a better job on backing it up since this is something he hasn't been able to do.

 

[oldcrank]

Ask Dear Wan ker, BMW was always going to win this
Tour because Sky paid off the UCI.

 

[The Hitch]

can you do a better job on backing it up since this is something he hasn't been able to do.

Claim:
Wiggins is a better tter than Nibali

Backup:
He thrashed him in both tts (he won them btw)

Claim:
Wiggins is a better climber than Nibali

Backup:
He didnt lose a goddamn second to Nibali anywhere but gained 18 seconds on the stage Piti won and 5 on PLBF. All while defending.

Maybe now you need to find some backup for where exactly Nibali would get back all the time he was behind in the actual version.

All 6 minutes and 19 seconds.

 

[cineteq]

Claim:
Wiggins is a better tter than Nibali

Backup:
He thrashed him in both tts (he won them btw)

Claim:
Wiggins is a better climber than Nibali

Backup:
He didnt lose a goddamn second to Nibali anywhere but gained 18 seconds on the stage Piti won and 5 on PLBF. All while defending.

Maybe now you need to find some backup for where exactly Nibali would get back all the time he was behind in the actual version.

All 6 minutes and 19 seconds.

Nobody's disputing Wiggo's TT ability. Wiggins won the WC ITT, remember? 2nd point. He didn't lose time to Nibali because he had Froome, Rogers, Porte, Eisel. The Sky train, remember? So I don't get how you can claim you backed it up when you don't provide evidence or analysis that he could have climbed with the leaders with no team. That the whole point of the discussion.

Nibali would have won since Froome wouldn't have been there, remember no team?, and Wiggins would have cracked for 3 reasons, he doesn't respond well to pace changes, he's not a good descender and his mind is so fragile. Thus his last ITT would have been subpar, unless he would've previously retired.

Ask Dear Wan ker, BMW was always going to win this
Tour because Sky paid off the UCI.

Are you talking to me? LOL! I'd be willing to buy this as a back up though.

 

[The Hitch]

Wiggins won the WC ITT, remember?

No I dont actually. Though you probably meant olympics, in which case, yes I was there.

He didn't lose time to Nibali because he had Froome, Rogers, Porte, Eisel. The Sky train, remember

But Wiggins gained time on Nibali on 2 stages without attacking.

And that shows he is at the very least near Nibalis level at climbing if not better. Because there was nothing stopping Nibali following Froome and Wiggins on Peyragudes.

He would have the exact same slipstream. Same with PDBF where he was in the group too. And yet he lost time. That cant be explained by "ugh wiggins had the better team" because they were both behind other peoples wheels.

Wiggins would have cracked for 3 reasons, he doesn't respond well to pace changes, he's not a good descender and his mind is so fragile. Thus his last ITT would have been subpar, unless he would've previously retired.

Thats just a wild theory -
"Wiggins sucks" -Nibali would win smiley face"

. Like I said where is your backup?

Nibali has cracked in Gts before as well.
Remember Giro 2011 even though he podiumed. How he was being dropped 30k out on Marmolada. How he was dropped way out from the finish on Finnestre?

And his 60k attacks usually end in ****.
Did he win Lombardia?
Did he win Liege with his attack from 20k?

What examples exactly do we have of Nibali singlehandidly breaking riders who are his equal at climbing on mountains and taking minutes on them?

This idea that Nibali of all riders is going to take back all the time he would lose to Wiggins in the tts by cracking him in the mountains with 60k solos is pure fantasy.

and lets quickly revisit your original response to me

can you do a better job on backing it up since this is something he hasn't been able to do.

I have "backed up" my theory with examples of stages and races. Stages wiggins won, stages wiggins beat nibali in, stages nibali cracked in.

Now its your turn to offer us some examples. Some actual examples, and not just "Nibali rocks - wiggins loser smiley face"

Because you wanted "backup" afterall? Right?

Are you talking to me? LOL! I'd be willing to buy this as a back up thoug

I believe he is referring to a poster from the clinic.

 

[Buffalo]

Wiggins won the WC ITT, remember ?

I don't remember this.

 

[cineteq]

I don't remember this.

Of course not, I meant the Olympics LOL!

 

[Parrulo]

if wiggins didn't have personal wind cutter working for himself he would have lost significant time on la toussuire and maybe even on the peyresourde. don't underestimate the effect to drag on shallow climbs, particularly la toussuire which is for most of the climb more like a false flat. when nibali was up ahead on a group of 4 which was working well together and froome appeared to be cracking wiggins lost somewhere btw 10 and 15 seconds in just a space of a few hundred meters when he was setting his own pace. ofc them froome had his famous nitro boost that had wiggins very close to cracking by the time they reconnected with the nibali group. remember wiggins peddling squares for a while trying to shake the lactic acid out of his legs? that's not what some1 strong enough to close that gap on his own would be doing after closing said gap.


yes he(wiggins) was stronger on PDBF and on the stage piti won where nibali had his trademark bad day (which he so cyclist like blamed on a growing injury on his right leg, in his defense tho he was wearing those strips to hold muscles during the stage where he cracked so there might be some small truth in there) but i wouldn't say he was a stronger climber overall.