Wiggins Discussion thread.

[argyllflyer]

How much work did he do last year anyway? 12/15 km ? And he had to let Wiggo take over twice, it was more like moral support (well not so much now that we know how Wiggo felt about his showboating) and in case of a mechanical. If he hadn't been there Wiggo would still have won easily. Froome has everything to prove and I'm not sure he has the brains to pull it off, his bitc*y GF certainly won't help.

Racing brains I hope you mean, as Froome's one of the more intelligent members of the peloton which isn't exactly Mensa On Tour.

 

[webvan]

Actually I meant brains in general because if you look at last year (Showboating on Toussuire and Peyeragudes and ridiculous attack after being dragged back by Uran in the Vuelta) his "racing brains" are among the worst I've seen in a GT contender since...forever actually.

As for Wiggins having to prove he can be a teammate? Dunno...wasn't he a teammate long enough until 2009 and again in the second part of the Vuelta 2011 and that race (Algarve?) he helped Porte win...and in his sprint lead outs? Who's the last TDF winner who did stuff like that ? Anyway I think he showed what it takes to be allowed to lead for the rest of his career, no?

 

[Netserk]

and it was more like 1 minute.

1:25

 

[webvan]

So that's closer to 1 minute and Knees and Porte waited for him only leaving Suitsu and Rogers with Wiggo, it's not like little Froomey was left to his own devices and made to lose time so that Wiggo would be in the clear as some have been trying to say here...

 

[Ferminal]

Wiggins would have beaten Froome 90% of the time on that route (the only way Froome wins the race is if Wiggins isn't there, not just being able to ride solo) but it is probably the opposite on the 2013 route.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

Actually I meant brains in general because if you look at last year (Showboating on Toussuire and Peyeragudes and ridiculous attack after being dragged back by Uran in the Vuelta) his "racing brains" are among the worst I've seen in a GT contender since...forever actually.

As for Wiggins having to prove he can be a teammate? Dunno...wasn't he a teammate long enough until 2009 and again in the second part of the Vuelta 2011 and that race (Algarve?) he helped Porte win...and in his sprint lead outs? Who's the last TDF winner who did stuff like that ?

Ullrich did much more for Zabel. Wiggins only started working for his teammates when the overall victory was already in the bag. Other than one short leadout for Boasson Hagen, that is. Van Den Broeck did MUCH more for Greipel in that stage.

 

[airstream]

Actually I meant brains in general because if you look at last year (Showboating on Toussuire and Peyeragudes and ridiculous attack after being dragged back by Uran in the Vuelta) his "racing brains" are among the worst I've seen in a GT contender since...forever actually.

As for Wiggins having to prove he can be a teammate? Dunno...wasn't he a teammate long enough until 2009 and again in the second part of the Vuelta 2011 and that race (Algarve?) he helped Porte win...and in his sprint lead outs? Who's the last TDF winner who did stuff like that ? Anyway I think he showed what it takes to be allowed to lead for the rest of his career, no?

Great reason to judge about one's racing 'brains'. This is called diligence and nothing more. Show me anyone of big guns who didn't make mistakes with estimating his own capacities uphill. They don't exist. The sport is inevitably conjugated with such flaws.

 

[myrideissteelerthanyours]

Who's the last TDF winner who did stuff like that ?

when evans for like 2 seconds was using his good form and talents to set gilbert up for big wins after he won wc before he won tdf

 

[del1962]

Wiggins also has to prove he can be a teammate.

Perhaps to another grand tour contender, but there are plenty of times that Brad has worked for teammates, EBH and Cav spring to mind.

 

[movingtarget]

How much work did he do last year anyway? 12/15 km ? And he had to let Wiggo take over twice, it was more like moral support (well not so much now that we know how Wiggo felt about his showboating) and in case of a mechanical. If he hadn't been there Wiggo would still have won easily. Froome has everything to prove and I'm not sure he has the brains to pull it off, his bitc*y GF certainly won't help.

Obviously Rogers and Porte were the mules but Froome did his fair share. I am not saying that Froome would have won the Tour. But if Contador disappears into the distance and Wiggins gets into trouble Froome won't wait and why should he ? Look what happened at the Vuelta in 2011. I agree that Froome has not proved yet that he is a grand tour winner even though his Vuelta 2011 and Tour riders were impressive. I put Froome in the same category as Andy. Has the potential but yet to win a grand tour on the road. Wiggins has improved over the last two years and it will be very interesting to see how much time Contador and the best climbers can actually put into Wiggins in the mountains. Maybe not as much as they hope to.

 

[BlenJones2]

Though its probably more useful for riders to know their roles and races well in advance, sky could use stage races like tirreno, paris-nice, romandie to establish whether froome deserves and has the (mental and physical) ability to lead sky for the tour.

 

[Froome19]

To be honest I have a feeling that Sky know exactly how good and capable Froome is.
What those races can do is justify their decision of picking Froome and also give him experience in leading teams at stage races. Though he led the Vuelta team so he already has experience in that regard.

 

[bicifan]

It doesn't make sense Sky sends Froome and Wiggins to Le Tour. None will support the other, and the team will be divided. Dave Brailsford will have to decide soon which one he is going to send, both must not be in the same Tour team. Wiggins should have never said he would ride Il Giro, and it all started there.

 

[Froome19]

It doesn't make sense Sky sends Froome and Wiggins to Le Tour. None will support the other, and the team will be divided. Dave Brailsford will have to decide soon which one he is going to send, both must not be in the same Tour team. Wiggins should have never said he would ride Il Giro, and it all started there.

I imagine it will be similar to Basso and Nibali in their respective roles this year. Basso does the Giro full out and then supports Nibali in the Tour. He is not at his peak as has done the Giro but still gives some useful support.

 

[webvan]

It's never hurt to have two potential winners, i.e. when ig happened (85, 86, 09, 12) one of them won the Tour. The first week is a lottery, crashes in '10, '11, punctures '10 (LA), '12 (Froome, VDB2), etc...

Obviously Rogers and Porte were the mules but Froome did his fair share. I am not saying that Froome would have won the Tour. But if Contador disappears into the distance and Wiggins gets into trouble Froome won't wait and why should he ? Look what happened at the Vuelta in 2011. I agree that Froome has not proved yet that he is a grand tour winner even though his Vuelta 2011 and Tour riders were impressive. I put Froome in the same category as Andy. Has the potential but yet to win a grand tour on the road. Wiggins has improved over the last two years and it will be very interesting to see how much time Contador and the best climbers can actually put into Wiggins in the mountains. Maybe not as much as they hope to.

Yes that will be interesting, clearly Froome will be allowed to follow Bertie if he takes off...provided Wiggo still has someone to pace him, like Hinault/Lemond/Ruttiman (sp?) in 85/86, Sky just need to make sure they're in that situation.

Froome did a great 2012 TDF but I'm a bit annoyed at all the crocodile tears as to how he sacrificed himself and dragged Wiggo, that's complete BS for anyone who watched the race. A bit like Lemond in '85, he did zero work for Hinault and was just told just once by Koechli not to relay Delgado (Hinault had crashed very hard a few days before, the day Lemond attacked with a small group and took 2+ minutes back from his 5+ minute gap in GC) ultra basic tactics and now everyone and their dog states that Lemond had that tour stolen from him...

 

[Froome19]

Froome did a great 2012 TDF but I'm a bit annoyed at all the crocodile tears as to how he sacrificed himself and dragged Wiggo, that's complete BS for anyone who watched the race.

Even if there was just one moment where Froome assisted Wiggins it could have made all the difference. As the facts stand I would have not liked to know what would have happened had Wiggins been by himself against VDB2 and Nibali on Stage 11.

 

[cineteq]

I imagine it will be similar to Basso and Nibali in their respective roles this year. Basso does the Giro full out and then supports Nibali in the Tour. He is not at his peak as has done the Giro but still gives some useful support.

Except that there was no drama between the two. I see implosion in the horizon for Sky, unless Brailsford manage to cut his losses soon enough.

 

[Froome19]

Except that there was no drama between the two. I see implosion in the horizon for Sky, unless Brailsford manage to cut his losses soon enough.

Froome is pretty mellow, but Wiggins is one mean machine. Throw in their partners and you have a lethal mix. Froome will probably keep backing down, but he may get tired of all the rubbish and give it to Wiggins. We can only hope

 

[Angliru]

Great reason to judge about one's racing 'brains'. This is called diligence and nothing more. Show me anyone of big guns who didn't make mistakes with estimating his own capacities uphill. They don't exist. The sport is inevitably conjugated with such flaws.

I agree with you.

 

[Ferminal]

Perhaps to another grand tour contender, but there are plenty of times that Brad has worked for teammates, EBH and Cav spring to mind.

Doing a 30" leadout isn't exactly the same sacrifice as being a mountain superdom.

 

[Richeypen]

Doing a 30" leadout isn't exactly the same sacrifice as being a mountain superdom.

So you call the work that Wiggins did at the Olympic RR a 30 second leadout. He was immense that day even though he knew it could hurt his chances for gold in the ITT.

 

[Ferminal]

Do I need to repeat myself?

So far as a superdom in GTs, he's 0-1.

 

[El Pistolero]

So you call the work that Wiggins did at the Olympic RR a 30 second leadout. He was immense that day even though he knew it could hurt his chances for gold in the ITT.

His biggest competitors got eliminated before the time trial. What risks?

 

[del1962]

Do I need to repeat myself?

So far as a superdom in GTs, he's 0-1.

Did he not do work for Froome in 2011 vuelta when Froome became leader, not sure my memory is not great, but I thought he did

 

[The Hitch]

Did he not do work for Froome in 2011 vuelta when Froome became leader, not sure my memory is not great, but I thought he did

When froome became race leader he had to.continue to work for wiggins. It was only with 1 gc stage remaining that froome was allowed to be team leader and since that was the uphill sprint to pena cabarga i don't recall if wiggins actually had to do any work.