Wiggins Discussion thread.

[webvan]

Not only is the man a mean machine he's got brains, from : http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/wiggins-the-tour-is-a-lot-more-human-now

“I think the Tour is a lot more human now,” Wiggins said. “If people want to see incredible 220km lone breaks in the mountains, well maybe that’s not realistic anymore, as wonderful and as magical as they were to watch. I remember in the 90s watching people like Virenque, but maybe the sport’s changed now.”

Sky’s cerebral but romance-free approach has hardly thrilled the neutral over the past three weeks, but Wiggins looked to place his win in the context of the ongoing fight against doping. “When we were riding on the front at 450 watts or whatever, someone would attack and Mick Rogers would say ‘just leave him, he can’t sustain it,’” Wiggins said.

“Someone is going to have to sustain 500 watts over 20 minutes of a climb to stay away which is not possible anymore unless you’ve got a couple of extra litres of blood. That’s the reality of it. It really is.

“It’s all these small little percentages that make the difference in sport. That’s our philosophy at Sky and at the start we got laughed at, small things like the warming down.”

 

[hfer07]

“When we were riding on the front at 450 watts or whatever, someone would attack and Mick Rogers would say ‘just leave him, he can’t sustain it,’” Wiggins said.

“Someone is going to have to sustain 500 watts over 20 minutes of a climb to stay away which is not possible anymore unless you’ve got a couple of extra litres of blood. That’s the reality of it. It really is.

So is impossible to produce a 500 watts during an attack without doping BUT IS OK TO PRODUCE 460+ WATTS FOR 3+ HOURS DURING CONSECUTIVE CLIMBS..............

does he think everyone is stupid?

 

[Arnout]

It's just bull**** really. In this race it was true but Dekker_tif already showed that Contador was 1-2min faster on average in the mountains than they were this year.

And indeed, Wiggins should keep his mouth shut. Apparently it's not a problem to time trial better than before with less muscles than before.

 

[595RED]

You should know. Whilst Brad will never go down as one of the greats name another rider than won P-N, Romandie, the Dauphine and the Tour in a season? The man deserves some respect.

You can all whine all you want about Froome, parcours, missing riders or any other bull**** you want but the fact is he has won far and square. Riders make the race not the route.

How do you like them apples!

Yep congratulations Wiggo and team, great performance in this years Tour, thing to remember no two annual events are the same from one year to the next and you guys nailed this one. Next year providing everyone can make it to the startline should be more crowded at the top, and bring on the Colombians!

 

[Ripper]

So is impossible to produce a 500 watts during an attack without doping BUT IS OK TO PRODUCE 460+ WATTS FOR 3+ HOURS DURING CONSECUTIVE CLIMBS..............

does he think everyone is stupid?

--- Yes ---

 

[Ripper]

You should know. Whilst Brad will never go down as one of the greats name another rider than won P-N, Romandie, the Dauphine and the Tour in a season? The man deserves some respect.

You can all whine all you want about Froome, parcours, missing riders or any other bull**** you want but the fact is he has won far and square. Riders make the race not the route.

How do you like them apples!

Bwa ha ha ha ha! That was a good laugh. Thanks, it has been a busy and stressful day for me.

 

[Ripper]

No doubt about it, Brad's had a phenomenal year and his name deservedly sits alongside the likes of Indurain, Lemond and Contador.

Well there are fans, there are fanboys, and then there's this. Wiggo did a great Tour and has had a great year. One great year on the road. Give him a chance to earn that level of respect. Do you actually follow cycling before you post comments like this?

 

[rhubroma]

Yeah, I understood that. But frankly stage 17 of this years TdF is way better suited to long range attacks than the Sestriere stage in '92.

Take the Sestriere stage:
After the descent from Iseran you've got 15 km in the valley before the ascent to Mont Cenis. After the ascent there is 5 km of more or less flat before you start the descent to Susa. From Susa you've got 35 in the valley before you reach Cesana and start the ascent to Sestriere. The climb to Sestriere is 11.5 km @5.9%.

Take stage 17 of this year's TdF:
After the descent from Tourmalet you get straight to the ascent to Col d'Aspin. Of course the first part of the Aspin ascent is not very steep, but at least you're riding in the forest and isn't exposed to wind as you are in the valley between Iseran and Mont Cenis. After the ascent you go straight to the descent. After the descent you have 10 km to the beginning of the ascent to Col de Peyresourde which is 9.5 km @6.7%

Wasn't the Sestriere stage something like 250-60 klms long though? Almost 8 hours in the saddle. Way harder than stage 17 of this year's tour.

 

[mscaviy2601]

So is impossible to produce a 500 watts during an attack without doping BUT IS OK TO PRODUCE 460+ WATTS FOR 3+ HOURS DURING CONSECUTIVE CLIMBS..............

does he think everyone is stupid?

I don't know. Ask Cadel Evans, Nibali and VDB. They all pretty much prove Rogers' point.

 

[movingtarget]

Well there are fans, there are fanboys, and then there's this. Wiggo did a great Tour and has had a great year. One great year on the road. Give him a chance to earn that level of respect. Do you actually follow cycling before you post comments like this?

Yes Merckx also should be worried. It's that time of year.

 

[richtea]

Ok then look at the rest of my post for the reason why that was irrelevant

I think it is fair to say the level of domination was at a similar level in terms of the race as a whole.

Wiggins did win convincingly using a well executed plan but undoubtedly against a weaker than average field. It is still a great achievement, and there is no need to try an elevate iwhat he has done to the level of some of Contador's wins. It clearly isn't, and I don't really see why that such a comparison is so important to you.

 

[hfer07]

I don't know. Ask Cadel Evans, Nibali and VDB. They all pretty much prove Rogers' point.

There is an enormous difference between Evans, Nibali & VDB being dropped by "a savage attack by Contador or Andy", rather than being "dropped by an infernal pace"- that's what Rogers, Porte, Fromme & Wiggins believe is the "convincing way" to hide the scam-because-as Wiggo believes- is more credible to sustain 460+ watts for all the mountain stages with an effort lasting 3+ hours than a single attack reaching 500 watts for 20 minutes- I mean-care to do the math for Pete's sake & see what comes off the other end

as Ullrich said: if you can't add 1 plus 1 together on what's going on in cycling-is beyond me...

 

[King Of The Wolds]

Well there are fans, there are fanboys, and then there's this. Wiggo did a great Tour and has had a great year. One great year on the road. Give him a chance to earn that level of respect. Do you actually follow cycling before you post comments like this?

All year, we've seen people write Wiggo off. He couldn't climb the steep stuff, he won't be able to do the long/multiple HC climb stages, he can't handle it in the 3rd week. I had some doubts myself. But now that he's dispelled all that and gone and won the thing, those voices have gone into one of two camps - the Clinic's gone nuts with one of them and the other group are now trying to discredit his win by stating it's undervalued due to the lack of quality opposition.

I'm not trying compare his career with those of the aforementioned. That would be silly. I'm saying, like you, that this year, he deserves as much credit as Indurain did during any of his wins and Lemond did during any of his wins. A Tour win is a Tour win.

 

[spalco]

Wiggins did win convincingly using a well executed plan but undoubtedly against a weaker than average field. It is still a great achievement, and there is no need to try an elevate iwhat he has done to the level of some of Contador's wins. It clearly isn't, and I don't really see why that such a comparison is so important to you.

It certainly wasn't as spectacular as Contador's "victory" in the Giro last year, but I disagree that the field was weaker in this Tour.

Scarponi (was there, somewhere) - Nibali (best of the rest, like in the Giro) - Gadret (lol?) - Joaquim Rodríguez (with 100K TT really?) - Kreuziger (meh) - Rujano (another one who was really missed with all the TT)- Menchov (also hiding somewhere in the peloton) - Kruijswijk - Sivtsov - Nieve.

Contador really didn't have the strongest opposition in that race either in hindsight.

 

[King Of The Wolds]

There is an enormous difference between Evans, Nibali & VDB being dropped by "a savage attack by Contador or Andy", rather than being "dropped by an infernal pace"- that's what Rogers, Porte, Fromme & Wiggins believe is the "convincing way" to hide the scam-because-as Wiggo believes- is more credible to sustain 460+ watts for all the mountain stages with an effort lasting 3+ hours than a single attack reaching 500 watts for 20 minutes- I mean-care to do the math for Pete's sake & see what comes off the other end

as Ullrich said: if you can't add 1 plus 1 together on what's going on in cycling-is beyond me...

I'd like to see your maths which proves that Wiggo's performance warrants being talked about in the Clinic only. Which is where your post should have been in the first place.

 

[Froome19]

Wiggins did win convincingly using a well executed plan but undoubtedly against a weaker than average field. It is still a great achievement, and there is no need to try an elevate iwhat he has done to the level of some of Contador's wins. It clearly isn't, and I don't really see why that such a comparison is so important to you.

I think you will find that in terms of current and future GT racing this will be one of the strongest Tour lineups (and finish lists) for quite some time.

In terms of the Contador comparison quite right that Wiggins cant compare to Contador when it comes to pure domination because he is not the rider that Contador is and most likely he will never be that rider but the manner in which this Tour has been dominated by Sky is emphasised by the time gaps to the next primary rival and that that can be compared with Contador emphasises such a fact, the fashion they dominated may not have been the same and Contador may have been stronger and more capable etc but the dominating nature of the perfomances are the same and Wiggins did dominate similar to Contador in that he took the race by the scruff of its neck (prologue/Etna) and never released it until the last stage.

 

[LaFlorecita]

No doubt about it, Brad's had a phenomenal year and his name deservedly sits alongside the likes of Indurain, Lemond and Contador.

Bahahahaha hilarious!!

 

[spalco]

Why? It was not a fluke win, and it is the Tour de ****ing France. Maybe he's a one-time-winner, but a deserved one, just like Evans or Ullrich.

 

[mscaviy2601]

It certainly wasn't as spectacular as Contador's "victory" in the Giro last year, but I disagree that the field was weaker in this Tour.

Scarponi (was there, somewhere) - Nibali (best of the rest, like in the Giro) - Gadret (lol?) - Joaquim Rodríguez (with 100K TT really?) - Kreuziger (meh) - Rujano (another one who was really missed with all the TT)- Menchov (also hiding somewhere in the peloton) - Kruijswijk - Sivtsov - Nieve.

Contador really didn't have the strongest opposition in that race either in hindsight.

This. We lost the steak assisted Contador and perpetually second Schleck but gained 2011's 2nd place guy in the Giro and the Vuelta winner and Dennis Menchov. Might not be a like for like swap but it's not like there were two gaping holes left by ContaSchleck.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Why? It was not a fluke win, and it is the Tour de ****ing France. Maybe he's a one-time-winner, but a deserved one, just like Evans or Ullrich.

Not deserved imo but that might be because I want excitement.

And what bothers me most is that if we have to believe Wiggo, we'll have to see this for the next few years. I will give up on cycling if that happens. If even the mountain stages are boring, well what is left of the sport then.

 

[webvan]

Not deserved imo but that might be because I want excitement.

And what bothers me most is that if we have to believe Wiggo, we'll have to see this for the next few years. I will give up on cycling if that happens. If even the mountain stages are boring, well what is left of the sport then.

If that's the price to pay to not have "steak-assisted" riders I'm more than happy to pay it, besides I wasn't bored at all in most of the mountain stages...on the other hand if anyone in this TDF Sky Team ends up in disgrace too, I for one will give up on cycling, really, but having seen it all since 1977, I'm pretty confident we're ok on this one, like I suspected we were not in 1999 and knew it for a fact in 2001.

 

[LaFlorecita]

If that's the price to pay to not have "steak-assisted" riders I'm more than happy to pay it, besides I wasn't bored at all in most of the mountain stages...on the other hand if anyone in this TDF Sky Team ends up in disgrace too, I for one will give up on cycling, really, but having seen it all since 1977, I'm pretty confident we're ok on this one, like I suspected we were not in 1999 and knew it for a fact in 2001.

I reported your post for Clinic talk.

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

I reported your post for Clinic talk.

You probably shouldn't sail so close to the wind yourself and then go running to teacher when someone follows you.

Some would say it looks childish.

 

[slim charles]

Well, I am certainly not Wiggins' fan, nor will I ever like riders like him, but he did win the Tour, and deservedly so. Chapeau!

 

[Susan Westemeyer]

That's enough with the doping-related talk, please remember the rules.

Susan