Wiggins Discussion thread.

[armchairclimber]

Hitch is not usually someone who makes such accusations and you said some pretty unbelievable and clearly false comments therefore you receive such a response. It may come across as a bit harsh, but it is true.

You may have trouble with your belief but there was nothing in my post which could be described as "clearly false".

I still take exception to being called a troll...I enjoyed this year's tour and I've said so. I think Wiggins is a worthy winner and I said so. That's not trolling, that's enjoying the Tour's outcome and sharing my feelings on this forum. I'm not sure why anyone would have a problem with that.

 

[Arnout]

On one of those he was only beaten by Pierre Rolland who beat Contador and Samuel sanchez to the top of d'Huez. But we're not talking about individual stages but the overall and with the Contador/Schleck obvious exemption, the overall this year was not noticeably weaker than the previous few years. Certainly making that point hardly qualifies as the dumbest thing ever written which was what was asserted.

Rolland had a slower ascent of l'Alpe though, as he was in front (not to take anything away from his victory as it was brilliant).

If the three best climbers of last year aren't there, the field is weak no matter which second rate riders are competing. For that alone, the point made was dumb. Dumbest thing ever written is hard to defend, as the internet is quite a big place with quite a lot of stupid people.

 

[CobbleStoner]

did everybody see that interview Wiggo did after the TT? talking about his mum, granny, and dreams of a young cyclist? how can anybody not like that guy, truly inspiring.
on a side note: I hope I don't get suspended from the moderator for my handle, I'm a doper, but it doesn't really enhance my performance, it enhances the visuals out on a Dutch countryside ride though...

 

[armchairclimber]

did everybody see that interview Wiggo did after the TT? talking about his mum, granny, and dreams of a young cyclist? how can anybody not like that guy, truly inspiring.
on a side note: I hope I don't get suspended from the moderator for my handle, I'm a doper, but it doesn't really enhance my performance, it enhances the visuals out on a Dutch countryside ride though...

Very funny

 

[Froome19]

Huh what?

What?.

Seriously i want to write this post without coming of a bit.mean but that is the the single.dumbest comment in the history of this.forum

2 of the top 3 from last year were there. 4 Tour of Spain winners. 2 Giro winners. Tour of California winner. Last year's winner was also there. Throw in a VDB here and there and I say you had a very strong field. They were just made to look stupid.

Only guys missing were Contador and Shleck.

Not my post

 

[mscaviy2601]

You lost me when you put Ivan Basso down as a unworthy top 10er.

For a start dismissing Rolland TJVG and Pinot as the future without looking into them, is a nice try, but wont fly.

Rolland did 2 places better on a gt that could not be less suited to him, than the 1 which was actually perfect for him last year.

TJVG, whose only previous gt results were way out of the running at the Tour and Vuelta has just obliterated the competition for a top 5 place.

Thibault Pinot meanwhile is 22 in his first gt and was expected to do the Vuelta.

Zubeldia is reliving past glory days at 35 and Janez Brajkovic at 28 never even had a gt top 10 before.

If we are counting Basso as a nobody, the only somebody in that list is Cadel Evans.

I had no intention of dismissing Ivan Basso but this year he's twenty-something, that year he was 7th so BW is better than someone who contended in those past years you thought so much better than this (and yes I understand his role for Nibali - same as Froome's for Wiggins).

Let's put it another way. In the last five years, there's only five riders of note that top-tenned that Wiggins did not beat this year - Contador, Schleck, Rodriguez, Sastre, Armstrong. That's only one rider difference per year between the previous five years and this years TDF and of those, the last three only top-tenned in one of those years. So how were those years so much stronger than this to warrant your hyperbole?

 

[The Hitch]

Not my post

If you took a look at the erratic and ridiculous things hog has posted over the years (including arguing violently that no team would want to buy Mark Cavendish) then you would not be so fast to hide behind his arms. The guy is still waiting for Contador to announce he signed a contract with Vaughters on Septemeber 5th 2009 (which hog saw with his own eyes), and for Lance not to ride the 2010 TDF (which hog guaranteed).

For once, you might be better off arguing for yourself, and if i were you i would start by looking for somehting better to hype riders by than to say they won the Tour of California.

 

[Froome19]

For a start dismissing Rolland TJVG and Pinot as the future without looking into them, is a nice try, but wont fly.

Rolland did 2 places better on a gt that could not be less suited to him, than the 1 which was actually perfect for him last year.

TJVG, whose only previous gt results were way out of the running at the Tour and Vuelta has just obliterated the competition for a top 5 place.

Thibault Pinot meanwhile is 22 in his first gt and was expected to do the Vuelta.

Zubeldia is reliving past glory days at 35 and Janez Brajkovic at 28 never even had a gt top 10 before.

.

Firstly the post I posted before quoted from the Hog of course contains riders who failed due to reasons out of their control but I seem to remember a seemingly similar scenario last year where you and other members of the forum seemed adamant that because guys like Gesink and VDB had crashed etc the GC positions were not truly indicative of the true ability of the riders. I am afraid you are going to have get used to these calamities at the Tour because they are not going away any time soon and that is what I was reffering to in my earlier post.

Furthermore look at this quote in the discussion of the quote in the previous post:

Sky decided their fate.

Evans sick? Or made to look sick by Sky?
Schleck removed? He already was chanceless before that.
Menchov old and gearless? Or made to look old and gearless by Sky?
etc.

The proofs themselves are tenuous but the theory is sound.




I think you can recall many riders making their breakthrough at the Tour at some time or another and TJVG and Pinot have dont exactly that at this year's Tour, that is something totally natural and they will be contenders for Top 5 GC in years to come.

Brajkovic would very likely have made his breakthrough last year if not for his crash as he is a rider who required the whole year to build up form and once he crashed at the Tour his season was effectively over, as I am sure you understand cycling well it would be obvious to you that he is evidently a late bloomer who unlike Pinot only reached his level at the age of 27 even though if not for some messy form in 2010 he would have done well there in all likelihood, just look at his Dauphine in 2010 even if in better form than most others there that ability is undoubted..

Zubeldia is an interesting case but one exception is enough as there will always be some surprises in the Tour and of course considering how RSNT are going he could be improving with age.

 

[Froome19]

If you took a look at the erratic and ridiculous things hog has posted over the years (including arguing violently that no team would want to buy Mark Cavendish) then you would not be so fast to hide behind his arms. The guy is still waiting for Contador to announce he signed a contract with Vaughters on Septemeber 5th 2009 (which hog saw with his own eyes), and for Lance not to ride the 2010 TDF (which hog guaranteed).

For once, you might be better off arguing for yourself, and if i were you i would start by looking for somehting better to hype riders by than to say they won the Tour of California.

It is irrelevant who the poster is if the theory behind it is sound.
To judge a post merely by its poster is a bit presumptuous.

 

[will10]

The sooner this Tour finishes, the sooner we get rid of the loonies on the forum.

You're leaving?

 

[auscyclefan94]

You're leaving?

There is only room for two loonies on this forum, myself and LaFlorecita! We have formed an alliance.

 

[Froome19]

There is only room for two loonies on this forum, myself and LaFlorecita! We have formed an alliance.

Loonies are dispensable

 

[trevim]

This is probably the right thread:

Congrats to Wiggins and Sky. They are boring as hell but it's like HTC on the sprints: it's up to the other teams to up their game and attack them, not complain about their style.

Anyway, Brailsford (or anyone else) please do something about Wiggos hairstyle!

 

[The Hitch]

Sky decided their fate.

Evans sick? Or made to look sick by Sky?
Schleck removed? He already was chanceless before that.
Menchov old and gearless? Or made to look old and gearless by Sky?
etc.

Evans ended up getting dropped by among others Nick Roche Egoi Martinez, Marco Marzano and Eduard Vorganov. Pardon me if i dont put that down to Sky

Menchov was even worse, getting dropped by all those riders on more than 1 occasion and just about scraped top 50 in the tours queen stage.

Whoever made those comments thinking that it was team sky that made these guys fail, seems to know very little about cycling.

 

[Froome19]

Evans ended up getting dropped by among others Nick Roche Egoi Martinez, Marco Marzano and Eduard Vorganov. Pardon me if i dont put that down to Sky

Menchov was even worse, getting dropped by all those riders on more than 1 occasion and just about scraped top 50 in the tours queen stage.

Whoever made those comments thinking that it was team sky that made these guys fail, seems to know very little about cycling.

Indeed I agree and I said as much.

 

[movingtarget]

Firstly the post I posted before quoted from the Hog of course contains riders who failed due to reasons out of their control but I seem to remember a seemingly similar scenario last year where you and other members of the forum seemed adamant that because guys like Gesink and VDB had crashed etc the GC positions were not truly indicative of the true ability of the riders. I am afraid you are going to have get used to these calamities at the Tour because they are not going away any time soon and that is what I was reffering to in my earlier post.

Furthermore look at this quote in the discussion of the quote in the previous post:

The proofs themselves are tenuous but the theory is sound.




I think you can recall many riders making their breakthrough at the Tour at some time or another and TJVG and Pinot have dont exactly that at this year's Tour, that is something totally natural and they will be contenders for Top 5 GC in years to come.

Brajkovic would very likely have made his breakthrough last year if not for his crash as he is a rider who required the whole year to build up form and once he crashed at the Tour his season was effectively over, as I am sure you understand cycling well it would be obvious to you that he is evidently a late bloomer who unlike Pinot only reached his level at the age of 27 even though if not for some messy form in 2010 he would have done well there in all likelihood, just look at his Dauphine in 2010 even if in better form than most others there that ability is undoubted..

Zubeldia is an interesting case but one exception is enough as there will always be some surprises in the Tour and of course considering how RSNT are going he could be improving with age.

You are right the proofs are tenuous but the theories are not sound. Also one good Tour does not make a career. Some of those top 10 riders will probably never do as well again. If you can avoid accidents and illness over three weeks you already have an advantage. Sky were impressive as Basso and Evans said. They have a great team. Two potential top 10 riders riding as domestiques plus Froome and Rogers and EBH. Wiggins and the team have had an incredible year but a year is a long time in sport. Sky won't be able to hold this team together for more than one more year. At least Porte and Froome will head elsewhere. As Evans said " it was a very different Tour." Next year will be a lot more interesting but Sky will obviously still be very competitive. Will be interesting to see if a very different route plus the return of Contador and Schleck can upset Sky's plans. Contador's team is weak and Schleck's team are mostly nearing retirement.

 

[Kellys Big Sprocket]

did everybody see that interview Wiggo did after the TT? talking about his mum, granny, and dreams of a young cyclist? how can anybody not like that guy, truly inspiring.
on a side note: I hope I don't get suspended from the moderator for my handle, I'm a doper, but it doesn't really enhance my performance, it enhances the visuals out on a Dutch countryside ride though...

Great words from a great man and he will have won more fans for his down to earth outlook imo. An interesting interview to watch. Emotional and inspiring. I think Wiggo should become a script writer for David Cameron.

 

[Ripper]

Huh what?

What?.

Seriously i want to write this post without coming of a bit.mean but that is the the single.dumbest comment in the history of this.forum

I agree that it was a dumb post. Not likely the dumbest, as there have been some pretty bad posts.

 

[Ripper]

I'm not preaching anything. I know that in my industry, the media, road cycling has been sneered at for a very long time. In the UK. for instance, mainstream channels wouldn't touch the Tour .... despite its obvious appeal as a spectacle, because it is a sport which has repeatedly been associated with cheating.

Your post did come across as preachy to me. Of course, I am in a different country, so different media.

 

[Ripper]

Ok, I'll put it another way. The best man won with the help of a disciplined and talented team. The KOTM winner was the best man in that competition...and he pretty much did it on his own.

The world loves Bradley Wiggins right now. That's good for the sport.

Furthermore, this year has provided some of the most exciting mountain racing I can remember (and I have a long memory). There have been some great breakaways, some new stars (Pinot, Teejay, Sagan)some wars of attrition, some insanely good sprinting performances (Cavendish/Sagan/Greipel). Some unforgettable sights: Tommy's tongue, Wiggins leading Cavendish out, some awful accidents and some great sportsmanship.

For me, one of the best in 30 years.

I've no doubt Wiggo's got fans all over the world. And no doubt he is exceptionally popular in the UK. But the world loves Wiggo? Come on, even the forum as a whole does not love Wiggo. That is a bit rich. Are you writing a headline?

 

[armchairclimber]

I'm talking about the wider world beyond this tiny pocket of cycling fans. Reading the world's press this last few days the reporting is overwhelmingly positive...I've seen very little in the way of sniping.

Very few people give a monkey's what you or I or anyone else writes on these forums.

 

[Arnout]

The world certainly doesn't love Wiggins. At least the Dutch don't, in general. General consensus is he's a boring winner with a stronger teammate in a weak field.

Sorry to disturb the British dream.

 

[armchairclimber]

The world certainly doesn't love Wiggins. At least the Dutch don't, in general. General consensus is he's a boring winner with a stronger teammate in a weak field.

Sorry to disturb the British dream.

It's not a British dream, it's a British reality....though, as I've said before, my favourite rider is French. I'm not a nationalist.

 

[Arnout]

Well Wiggins took his chance, that's for sure. But it's not a case of "the world loves Wiggins" because that's simply not true.

 

[LaFlorecita]

There is only room for two loonies on this forum, myself and LaFlorecita! We have formed an alliance.

Yes! Lol.