Wiggins in clean tour win shocker?

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Froome19 said:
The irony of it is that people then go on to complain when there is no more doping that the racing is too boring, I guess there is no pleasing some people.
What people? Nobody's complained about that. The pre-EPO era in cycling was quite exciting, though not drug-free certainly.
 
May 26, 2009
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Benotti69 said:
Cofidis wanted to sign Obree but when he made it clear he didn't dope they dropped him.

Wiggins signed for Cofidis :rolleyes:
Surely you don't mean the Cofidis team that got busted in 2004 and surely not the same team who had a guy busted in this years tour, thank goodness they were clean from 2006-07.
 
Jun 15, 2009
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Ferminal said:
1. Sure, not speaking for everyone, just that it's wrong to assume all people who believe in doping hate cycling.

2. No one can show strong correlation between doping/attacking racing if you remove the outliers. Defensive racing is much more a product of other developments in cycling than blood doping (or lack thereof).
Ferminal said:
Suggesting that Wiggins doped with Cofidis works against the idea that 2009 was a PED induced transformation.
Both posts 1+...
 
Mar 4, 2010
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Cofidis 1995 is not the same team as Cofidis 2007 FFS. :rolleyes:

It's very likely they've been among the very cleanest teams after 2004.
 
May 26, 2009
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Tyler'sTwin said:
Cofidis 1995 is not the same team as Cofidis 2007 FFS. :rolleyes:

It's very likely they've been among the very cleanest teams after 2004.

Yeap 'cos nobody on Cofidis got busted in 2007.
 
May 14, 2010
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I would petition the mods to change the title of this thread, since it is misleading. Some would call it an outright lie, but that's debatable. What isn't debatable is that it's misleading.

The only thing that was shocking about this Tour was how very blatant the doping was from Sky. Given that they were the only team so doped, it certainly points the finger at UCI and ASO complicity, which, to some, would also be shocking.

After years of struggle for a clean sport, we get this, which makes everything done by LA and his team look like great subtlety and respect for the sport by comparison.

A fair and honest title for this thread, rather than a misleading, trolling one, would be "Wiggins - A clean winner?" or something to that effect.
 

Dr. Maserati

BANNED
Jun 19, 2009
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Froome19 said:
Indeed, lets just hope things are changing for the better.

Exactly and what are the stronger arguments for everyone accusing Wiggins?
After pressing people they have all seemed to admit that it is because they are cynical due to cycling's previous history. Is that enough of a justification?


Indeed but some of the responses on this forum seem to suggest otherwise.
The irony of it is that people then go on to complain when there is no more doping that the racing is too boring, I guess there is no pleasing some people.
No, lets be fair. Its not just history.
If you/we were talking solely about Wiggins, then perhaps.

But when you add in Leinders and some amazing performances by the whole team it does raise justifiable questions.
 
imagine if el bisonte and piti helped by costa and kiryienka had done what sky did with an 1 2 on gc and costa and kirienka destroying the field.

i bet there wouldn't be any1 claiming it was a clean tour even tho if you turn back the clock 12 months people would have laughed in your face and proposed psychological treatment if you said the 4 skyguys made a up for a better team in the mountains then the 4 movi guys.
 
Aug 6, 2009
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Pantani_lives said:
Is it possible that riders are now using genetical doping? It exists and I don't think they can trace it.
They certainly can't trace it, I don't think it exist though. People have talked about it for some time, but genetic engineering of humans is still theoretical, particularly altering the genome of a grown man (or animal), if that's what you're talking about, isn't something that has to my knowledge ever been done. I don't follow these things as closely as I used to, but I think I'd have heard. I don't even think genetic engineering is used for medical purposes, and dopers use existing medicine, they don't develop new stuff.
 
Mar 4, 2010
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BYOP88 said:
Ok that's from 2010 not 2007. What team had a bust in this years tour?
You're being ridiculous. One guy visited a 74-year old naturopath for glucose and ozone injections, thus Cofidis must be among the dirtiest teams? Please stop.
 
Dec 30, 2011
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Cerberus said:
They certainly can't trace it, I don't think it exist though. People have talked about it for some time, but genetic engineering of humans is still theoretical, particularly altering the genome of a grown man (or animal), if that's what you're talking about, isn't something that has to my knowledge ever been done. I don't follow these things as closely as I used to, but I think I'd have heard. I don't even think genetic engineering is used for medical purposes, and dopers use existing medicine, they don't develop new stuff.
Indeed I dont know about medicine and this stuff but I do not believe that genetic engineering is prevalent or even done on humans at this time, though of course a lot is done on animals from what I have heard.
 
Parrulo said:
imagine if el bisonte and piti helped by costa and kiryienka had done what sky did with an 1 2 on gc and costa and kirienka destroying the field.

i bet there wouldn't be any1 claiming it was a clean tour even tho if you turn back the clock 12 months people would have laughed in your face and proposed psychological treatment if you said the 4 skyguys made a up for a better team in the mountains then the 4 movi guys.
This +infinite.
 
May 26, 2009
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Tyler'sTwin said:
You're being ridiculous. One guy visited a 74-year old naturopath for glucose and ozone injections, thus Cofidis must be among the dirtiest teams? Please stop.
But your link is from 2010 which is closer to 2012 than it is to 2007 and in both those Tours a Cofidis rider got busted. Don't believe everything that's in a newspaper. Also if this is the age of clean cycling then by that logic Cofidis are the dirtiest team.
 
May 14, 2010
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Cerberus said:
They certainly can't trace it, I don't think it exist though. People have talked about it for some time, but genetic engineering of humans is still theoretical, particularly altering the genome of a grown man (or animal), if that's what you're talking about, isn't something that has to my knowledge ever been done. I don't follow these things as closely as I used to, but I think I'd have heard. I don't even think genetic engineering is used for medical purposes, and dopers use existing medicine, they don't develop new stuff.
This bold bit, above, I don't think you can really say. A state or private pharmaceuticals lab could quite readily develop and produce a custom oxygen vector drug. It would be expensive, probably, but if it was a one-off, produced for you and no one else, it wouldn't show up in tests; and if administered with the bio-passport in mind, wouldn't raise red flags there, either.
 
Mar 4, 2010
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BYOP88 said:
But your link is from 2010 which is closer to 2012 than it is to 2007 and in both those Tours a Cofidis rider got busted. Don't believe everything that's in a newspaper. Also if this is the age of clean cycling then by that logic Cofidis are the dirtiest team.
Don't believe everything that's in a newspaper? It's from a leaked UCI document. Cofidis was the least suspicious team in the race 2 years ago, according to the people in charge of anti-doping, with access to data none of us have seen.

It's likely that the clean up occured after 2004.
 
Froome19 said:
Well Wiggins has not betrayed my trust in him just yet, I cant say the same about some of those names..
OK, replace Piti with another of Movistar's climbing helpers. Say Arroyo, since he's podiumed a GT.

Cobo, Arroyo, Costa, Kiryienka.

There you have a guy who's won a GT (ok, he hadn't 12 months ago), a guy who's podiumed one in fortunate circumstances, a young guy with a lot of potential who's won a medium mountain stage at the Tour and a top notch mountain domestique who's won mountainous stage races and high mountain stages at GTs.

How's about we throw Vladimir Karpets in for good measure, to match the Mick Rogers role? And he starts telling people about how he's putting out his best ever numbers as he rides like it's the 2007 Tour de Suisse all over again, only better?

Now how's it look?
 

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