Wiggins speaks about drugs

Piston Pete

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From the CN interview. Some interesting stuff in there....

Many people were surprised by Wiggins transformation from track rider and time trialist to Tour contender. But he also proved, especially to other English-speaking riders that Tour success is no longer out of reach if you have the physiological and psychological strength to go for it.

"I think a lot of people still think I’m a bit of a fraud. I know one rider in particular who is adamant that I was on drugs last year at the Tour. I don’t know if that’s a general sentiment. Some don't think that but a lot of the French riders do," he said.

"But now the young riders know that success on the road is an achievable goal. For years we were always told by French teams: 'You'll never do anything at the Tour. How can we possible compete with these guys, they've got another gear.' You actually start believing that crap after a while. I believed that there was no way of getting top ten in the Tour if you didn't take drugs. But then when I saw Christian Vande Velde get fifth in 2008, that Tour changed everything for me."
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/wiggins-looks-to-prove-the-critics-wrong-in-tour-de-france
 

Piston Pete

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Mar 9, 2010
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In another recent interview, Wiggins explained why mental toughness is the key. This is doubtless something that LA learned after cancer:

As well as physical fitness, cyclists need extreme mental toughness. “Road and track racing are very different,” says Wiggins. “On the track it is very intense and in short bursts, but on the road I tend to break it up into two-minute blocks where I say to myself, ‘Right if it is still hurting in two minutes then I will stop.’ But after a minute of that, other riders will start dropping off, and that’s when I stop the timer and start it off again. Two more minutes. And by the time you have got through all those little two-minute barriers there might just be five of you left — there’s you and [Lance] Armstrong, and you think, ‘Ah well, here I am.’ That’s how I got through the Tour last time.”

Mental toughness is not something you can train at — it comes with experience, says Wiggins. “I have got better at it over the years but you need it for the Tour,” he says. “The length of it is just mind-blowing. I mean, if you look at it as a whole before you start you will just give up.

“If you are already suffering on the first climb of the first day and think of the next three weeks then you will never finish. You can’t think too far ahead, just concentrate on each day, then each climb of that day and break it down. You have to get into a really blinkered state and try and switch off. You’d crack otherwise.”
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/driving/features/article7041787.ece
 
Mar 13, 2009
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Wigans said:
"I think a lot of people still think I&#8217]Christian Vande Velde get fifth in 2008[/B], that Tour changed everything for me."
1. Sastre
2. Evans
3. Kohl
4. Menchov
5. Vande Velde

Wigans is saying CVdV was clean and implied differentiation, ergo, the other guys above him, were not. Kohl would agree, but not just for 5th.

Wigans is full of it.

But I think he will do better this year. Now, I dont give a $hit if you dope Wigans, just dont tell us youre clean ok?

Ironic, the dumb a$$ is using an argument, which throws the top 4 in the $hit, and then is crying foul at someone who does not believe his performance. Hypocrisy much?
 

Piston Pete

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Mar 9, 2010
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blackcat said:
1. Sastre
2. Evans
3. Kohl
4. Menchov
5. Vande Velde

Wigans is saying CVdV was clean and implied differentiation, ergo, the other guys above him, were not. Kohl would agree, but not just for 5th.
No, he's talking about someone who was on his own team who he knows for a fact was not doped. That's the point he was making. After seeing this I'm sure he believes at least some of the others near the front aren't doped either. Like Evans and Sastre.

No English speaking rider really believes Wiggins dopes - he has a long history of speaking out in strong terms against it, and there is just no circumstanical evidence out there like there is for some other riders. He's a great example to the kids coming through. Dave Brailsford is also very tough on this issue - Millar was only allowed back to the British national team recently.

I think it's very positive. Some riders are able to mould their brains into different challenges and Wiggins happens to be one of those guys. Whether he will be good enough to ever win the tour is another matter.
 
Piston Pete said:
No, he's talking about someone who was on his own team who he knows for a fact was not doped. That's the point he was making. After seeing this I'm sure he believes at least some of the others near the front aren't doped either. Like Evans and Sastre.

No English speaking rider really believes Wiggins dopes - he has a long history of speaking out in strong terms against it, and there is just no circumstanical evidence out there like there is for some other riders. He's a great example to the kids coming through. Dave Brailsford is also very tough on this issue - Millar was only allowed back to the British national team recently.

I think it's very positive. Some riders are able to mould their brains into different challenges and Wiggins happens to be one of those guys. Whether he will be good enough to ever win the tour is another matter.
Troll Begone!


Alright let's see if that works then. (Banning seems to have no effect)
 
Piston Pete said:
No, he's talking about someone who was on his own team who he knows for a fact was not doped. That's the point he was making. After seeing this I'm sure he believes at least some of the others near the front aren't doped either. Like Evans and Sastre.

No English speaking rider really believes Wiggins dopes - he has a long history of speaking out in strong terms against it, and there is just no circumstanical evidence out there like there is for some other riders. He's a great example to the kids coming through. Dave Brailsford is also very tough on this issue - Millar was only allowed back to the British national team recently.

I think it's very positive. Some riders are able to mould their brains into different challenges and Wiggins happens to be one of those guys. Whether he will be good enough to ever win the tour is another matter.
What kind of assumption is that? Have you personally discussed the matter with O'Grady, Hunter, Horner, etc etc?
 
Apr 9, 2009
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Hugh Januss said:
Troll Begone!


Alright let's see if that works then. (Banning seems to have no effect)
It's almost been a year now since this tool has been trolling away hasn't it? I think he'll stick around even after his Mancrush retires.
 
Jun 16, 2009
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Piston Pete said:
No, he's talking about someone who was on his own team who he knows for a fact was not doped. That's the point he was making. After seeing this I'm sure he believes at least some of the others near the front aren't doped either. Like Evans and Sastre.

guys - ignoring your attitude to the poster for a moment, he is actually correct that Black Cat's assertion is flawed.

In his comment, Wiggans didn't directly imply that anybody in the top 10 at the 2008 Tour was doped, merely that he KNEW that CVdV was clean and that he made it to 5th so therefore it is possible to succeed in the tour whether there are dopers there or not.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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Martin318is said:
guys - ignoring your attitude to the poster for a moment, he is actually correct that Black Cat's assertion is flawed.

In his comment, Wiggans didn't directly imply that anybody in the top 10 at the 2008 Tour was doped, merely that he KNEW that CVdV was clean and that he made it to 5th so therefore it is possible to succeed in the tour whether there are dopers there or not.
no, he did not "know" CVdV was clean. And this was 2008, before he was even on that team. He imputes the other riders are not clean. Which meshes with Mr Kohl.

He could not KNOW CVdV was clean, just like he could not KNOW the other riders were dirty.

It is Blackcat, one word. Like Wigans. One I one G one A. Get it right.
 
Aug 6, 2009
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blackcat said:
no, he did not "know" CVdV was clean. And this was 2008, before he was even on that team. He imputes the other riders are not clean. Which meshes with Mr Kohl.

He could not KNOW CVdV was clean, just like he could not KNOW the other riders were dirty.

It is Blackcat, one word. Like Wigans. One I one G one A. Get it right.
You're right that Wggins can't know that CVdV was clean, that doesn't mean that wasn't what he implied. He did and your insistence that he must be saying everyone else was dirty has no basis.
 
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hey guys,

long time lurker. first time poster. don't worry i have no associations with formerly banned posters!

i did feel like i had to chime in on this thread though.

jesus! did wiggins just openly accuse all of the top 10 tour finishers (except for himself and CVdV, natch) of doping?

in what other sport would this be allowed? isn't this a violation of omerta? yeah, i know he didn't say "lance, conta, et al. are dopers", but... he did say it from where i'm sitting.

this would be a terrific candidate for the wiggins quote watch thread, exceptin' for the subject matter of course.

imho, noone with hair like that could top 5 without the full programme.:D
 

Dr. Maserati

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Martin318is said:
guys - ignoring your attitude to the poster for a moment, he is actually correct that Black Cat's assertion is flawed.

In his comment, Wiggans didn't directly imply that anybody in the top 10 at the 2008 Tour was doped, merely that he KNEW that CVdV was clean and that he made it to 5th so therefore it is possible to succeed in the tour whether there are dopers there or not.
At first I agreed with what you said -that he was saying he knew for sure CVV was clean, and not commenting on the others, but I went back and reread the relevant paragraph.
" I believed that there was no way of getting top ten in the Tour if you didn't take drugs. But then when I saw Christian Vande Velde get fifth in 2008, that Tour changed everything for me."

Perhaps unwittingly, he was saying he did not "believe" in the other riders who finished in the top 10.
 
I think you guys are looking for something that isn't there. By seeing CVdV as an inspiration for clean riding he is not saying the others in the Top 5 or 10 must be dopers. What he is suggesting is that it is possible for someone else (i.e. CVdV), who hadn't been a regular high placing finisher in a GT to break the Top 10 without recourse to doping. Wigans had never placed in the Top 10 (or even probably Top 80 for that matter), but considered it possible.

And by following wheels it possibly is possible to achieve a high position. There are only so many leaders, whose team mates forego any GC ambitions; and there are those who deliverately lose time to build up the chance of being let go in a break.

To go beyond the Top 5 is the next step, and that may be where he struggles. The doping question may rear its ugly head again, when he tries to break into that exclusive club
 
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The thing that perplexes me is that former employers at Credit Agricole and Columbia-Highroad (as it was then) said that they always knew he was capable of doing such rides at the Tour by judging by his SRM files. Apparently Columbia still have them.
 
In previous Tours, this was a guy who was dropped on climbs by the autobus. I have a hard time swallowing that he saw that a clean athlete could place in the top five and made such a huge improvement based on faith. Homey don't believe in unicorns.

At the very least what he says implies that he thought it was impossible to place high at the Tour without doping. He tries to blame it on the French, but I don't see how that belief could not be formed more by what he personally saw on the road than what French teammates told him or the press. That implication says a lot about the top ten of pre-2008 Tours.
 
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Anonymous

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blackcat said:
Wigans is full of it.

But I think he will do better this year. Now, I dont give a $hit if you dope Wigans, just dont tell us youre clean ok?

Ironic, the dumb a$$ is using an argument, which throws the top 4 in the $hit, and then is crying foul at someone who does not believe his performance. Hypocrisy much?
Dear god, you're obsessed. Such anger. On the evidence (note evidence) of doping scale, if Ricco is a 10 and Armstrong a 9.5, Wiggo is a 1. What's the problem, *** edited by mod
 
Jul 30, 2009
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BroDeal said:
In previous Tours, this was a guy who was dropped on climbs by the autobus. .
Another way of looking at it is why was a guy with his power doing so badly?

That can be rationally explained by a variety reasons, most of which are psychological, and some of which are to do with being built for the track rather than the high mountains. All of which could possibly be addressed without recourse to PEDs.

IMO this is a story of a guy who can do the numbers doing badly, then coming good, not a story of a guy suddenly finding an extra 100W from nowhere.

The psychology of French riders now is that they do not believe they can win, so they never will. If you do not believe you can make 10th then you are going to find 11th very hard work indeed. Fortunately for Brad he has been exposed to some American style positive thinking when it come to road racing.

(None of which means I will be 100% surprised should cycling once again etc etc)
 
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Hibbles said:
Dear god, you're obsessed. Such anger. On the evidence (note evidence) of doping scale, if Ricco is a 10 and Armstrong a 9.5, Wiggo is a 1. What's the problem, Wiggins sleep with your ex or something?
no, Wigans and I had a weekend sojourn down in Brighton and he fobbed me off.

Wigans was riding in the autobus, yet now we are expected to believe he did it with grit and determination and belief. Have a look at the history of the sport, and the riders who made the pointy end of the Tour. Its a who's who.

Now Wigans, started off a mediocre rider, in the autobus. Now he finds himself in the pointy end? Come on.

He has just signed a multi-million pound contract. Are we to believe he was content riding for 100gbp at a Protour team supplemented by a lotteries grant from GB Cycling?

Please, this defies economic sense. If Wigans knew he was a top 3 Tour rider, he would have been the rider back with McCartney, and with FDJ. He would not have stuffed around on the track, when he was forgoing a couple of 100k per year.

Does anyone actually have a clue what goes on in the peloton for the top Tour prospects? All the deniers aint got a clue. Atleast I am wired into a few folks who accede to my view.

Another maxim blackcat has: "Anglophones never dope, because they are morally superior". Derivative of one P McQuaid. Thanks Paddy.
 
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Anonymous

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blackcat said:
If Wigans knew he was a top 3 Tour rider, he would have been the rider back with McCartney, and with FDJ.
But that's exactly the point, he didn't think he could do that so he didn't even bother trying. You do know he has had mental difficulties in the past - over-drinking, depression etc. He has obviously had confidence/esteem issues in the past and that can affect people significantly.

Winterfold's summary is more accurate. He is not significantly over-achieving now, if at all, he was significantly under-achieving on the road back then.

You state the maxim "Anglophones never dope, because they are morally superior". It seems your maxim should be "British cyclists never do well at the Tour, because they are physically inferior". And anyone who contradicts your maxim must be doping irrespective of anything else.


Edit: your constant trolling of Wiggins, the push to have him named Wigans, the vandalising of his Wiki entry, do your argument no favours. You come across as someone with a personal vendetta rather than someone who has considered the possibilities in a reasonable manner.
 
Jun 21, 2009
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Winterfold said:
Another way of looking at it is why was a guy with his power doing so badly?

That can be rationally explained by a variety reasons, most of which are psychological, and some of which are to do with being built for the track rather than the high mountains. All of which could possibly be addressed without recourse to PEDs.

IMO this is a story of a guy who can do the numbers doing badly, then coming good, not a story of a guy suddenly finding an extra 100W from nowhere.

The psychology of French riders now is that they do not believe they can win, so they never will. If you do not believe you can make 10th then you are going to find 11th very hard work indeed. Fortunately for Brad he has been exposed to some American style positive thinking when it come to road racing.

(None of which means I will be 100% surprised should cycling once again etc etc)
oh aye, french riders, those 1000 people all thinking and giving up in the exact same manner
 
Mar 13, 2009
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Hibbles said:
But that's exactly the point, he didn't think he could do that so he didn't even bother trying. You do know he has had mental difficulties in the past - over-drinking, depression etc. He has obviously had confidence/esteem issues in the past and that can affect people significantly.

Winterfold's summary is more accurate. He is not significantly over-achieving now, if at all, he was significantly under-achieving on the road back then.

You state the maxim "Anglophones never dope, because they are morally superior". It seems your maxim should be "British cyclists never do well at the Tour, because they are physically inferior". And anyone who contradicts your maxim must be doping irrespective of anything else.


Edit: your constant trolling of Wiggins, the push to have him named Wigans, the vandalising of his Wiki entry, do your argument no favours. You come across as someone with a personal vendetta rather than someone who has considered the possibilities in a reasonable manner.
nah, I reckon Wigans will be top 3 this year, Bro reckons he will be outside the top 20.

I reckon Wigans can make the podium competing with the same aid as every other Tour contender. No worse, no better.

But dont tell me he is squeaky clean and better than the others. Like Dimspace, says, he would not trust Contador as far as he could throw him. And he says that he trusts no Spanish rider. He then revels in a Flecha win at Het Volk.

The Brits are no worse and no better than the rest. Like the US, no better, no worse. I think a sociologist had an article in the NYTimes about the culture in the peloton and how it was expecting too much for riders to differ from the norm.
 
Jul 30, 2009
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workingclasshero ok handup it was a gross over-generalisation - but the 'deux vitesses' groupthink (which is not all French riders, but a mostly French point of view) is a negative psychology that will never see someone who thinks like that win. Or even Top 5 - even if it were possible to do so clean. You have already written it off, so it wont happen, even if it could.

blackcat I am trying to be open-minded to the fact that someone could be telling the truth, and it could be possible to top 5 without using PEDs. It may not be happening, but I would like to leave the door open to the possibility.

the sophistication of the top-level programmes is such that this is largely a matter of faith - and I am not prepared to be 110% cynical about it.
 

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