Wiggins speaks about drugs

[The Hitch]

Re: Re:

You state the maxim "Anglophones never dope, because they are morally superior". It seems your maxim should be "British cyclists never do well at the Tour, because they are physically inferior". And anyone who contradicts your maxim must be doping irrespective of anything else.

Wigans needed Armstrongs retirment, Ullrichs retirement, LAndis retirement, the Schlecks losing their mojo, Kloeden's aging, Beloki's postOnce loss of form, Leipheimers maturing, Contadors ban, Boogerd's retirement, Dekker's ban.

if you put Wiggins on a TdF that has not been rigged for his benefit, with all of the other riders named, he would be lucky to be top10. He could not peel the skin of custard for his first decade, and he could not climb before he got on the peptides and lost the weight. And like Landis said of Wiggo, he is so lacking is self-esteem cos he was not even the best rider on his team when he won in 2012. And he did not just start doping in his GC career at Garmin Sharp. He would have doped from the start in his nascent career in BC program before Linda MAc. You just dont start doping at 30, you would get out of the sport at 20 if you saw the writing on the wall. Wigans saw the writing on the wall and signed on the dotted line, pre- Linda MAc

This eats at Wiggins and will ultimately be his undoing.

That doesn't make sense.

 

[Dr.Guess]

I think he means he can be Froomes' Landis or something. The little thorn in the side that makes you want to spill the beans when you've got grand kids asking silly questions and you respond per se and get left next christmas and end up all alone an poor. You know, the need for the spill all book.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Re:

I think he means he can be Froomes' Landis or something. The little thorn in the side that makes you want to spill the beans when you've got grand kids asking silly questions and you respond per se and get left next christmas and end up all alone an poor. You know, the need for the spill all book.

*Spill-all interview with Alan Carr

 

[blackcat]

Re:

I think he means he can be Froomes' Landis or something. The little thorn in the side that makes you want to spill the beans when you've got grand kids asking silly questions and you respond per se and get left next christmas and end up all alone an poor. You know, the need for the spill all book.

no, you misinterpreted it. I think Benotti means, Wiggins personal battles are with himself.

And the LAndis and Armstrong enmity, was completely borne out of Floyd perceiving an injustice, and Armstrong not giving him some respite, when he could have.

How many athletes in cycling have "spat in the soup?"

what does that tell you? Besides Bassons, no one I know of. P'raps Kimmage? But lets assume Kimmage had LAndis ability and was winning. Kimmage did dope some, "just some uppers for a kermesse or crits" ??? p'raps.

I don't buy it that anyone besides Bassons, has "spat in the soup" wrt the doping culture in the sport. Kimmage slightly ambiguous, if he had achieved a measure of success, how likely was he to do what Bassons did when Bassons had greater achievements, and sacrificed more. Some have used journalism, Walsh and Kimmage, and have forged careers from anti-doping. Bassons just cost himself a career.

No one spits in the soup. Like Jan Ullrich said, if you cant add 2 and 2 together, I cant help you. I even think most of the clinic members, myself especially, are guilty to a degree, because we enable doping and underwrite the financial viability of the sport. just coming onto the clinic and The Clinic 12 we consume cycling companies advertising media and pop-up ads.*** I think 3 off the top of my head, are not in this camp. Dear Wiggo, D-Queued and Benotti69. there will be more than those 3, so apologies for lumping everyone in together.

 

[blackcat]

Re:

The little thorn in the side that makes you want to spill the beans when you've got grand kids asking silly questions and you respond per se and get left next christmas and end up all alone an poor. You know, the need for the spill all book.

does not happen that way, that is like a death drive, a suicide. The lifeforce, the driving existential motivators from these athletes, have all been founded upon seeing themselves as a professional cyclist. The moment they fail to see themselves as a professional cyclist, is the moment they commit suicide. some philosopher add something culture from sartre or something in beingandnothingness.

if you think that 50 years after their career, they will tell their granddaughter or baseballer grandson in america, that they took PEDs like a force fed foie gras duck then you will be sadly mistaken. they lie to themselves, they will only tell of the myth to their ignorant grandkids.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=32815SIgq1A

 

[goggalor]

Re:

I think he means he can be Froomes' Landis or something. The little thorn in the side that makes you want to spill the beans when you've got grand kids asking silly questions and you respond per se and get left next christmas and end up all alone an poor. You know, the need for the spill all book.

Wiggins has a lot more to lose than Froome though.

 

[Dr.Guess]

I would have thought that the rest of my little christmas tale would have been enough to ensure you I was talking in jest.
However, if Wiggins feels threatened by Froome, his ego and battles with Froome's ego should be a great watch when history eats up their little lies. Just like Ulrich prophecy, really. They all get caught* eventually in already outed sports. Even in Norway, even in the GB.

Edit: * I should add, that the public who are interested should have already figured out how it works. I mean, there have been knights who have done much worse things than to cheat in a bike race. Just watch Game of Thrones.

 

[Benotti69]

When Wiggins looks at what he has he will realise it was all got by deceit and cheating. He is a fraud. He knows it. It shows in his hate towards the media and anyone who dares question him. He is like a piece of carbon and one day will crack.

 

[The Hitch]

Re:

When Wiggins looks at what he has he will realise it was all got by deceit and cheating. He is a fraud. He knows it. It shows in his hate towards the media and anyone who dares question him. He is like a piece of carbon and one day will crack.

This based on anything other than a vivid imagination? How can you provide a psychological analysis of someone, like this, without having met them?

 

[blackcat]

I dont think Wiggins did anything different to others, so I think he will manage quite fine justifying it to himself.

but what I would like, is all of these riders being given the same inputs, and same resources and equipe behind them, in doping and off the bike, to July, and see who would win.

Ullrich Armstrong Contador AShleck ThomasDekker, Gesink, Rasmussen, Nibali, Basso, MAyo, Vino, Kashechkin, Evans Mcgee Wiggins Froome Rumsas Kloeden Landis Sastre.

I would be putting my lot in with left of field selctions, not the traditional ones.

I think Rumsas, Kloeden and Landis would fight it out for the full *** TdF doping podium. Sorry Ullrich fans. Sorry Lance and Wiggins fans.

It would be one mighty race thats fo' shur

especially for JV, the 'crit limit is 60 for all those riders I named. full ***.

 

[python]

Re: Re:

When Wiggins looks at what he has he will realise it was all got by deceit and cheating. He is a fraud. He knows it. It shows in his hate towards the media and anyone who dares question him. He is like a piece of carbon and one day will crack.

This based on anything other than a vivid imagination? How can you provide a psychological analysis of someone, like this, without having met them?

look who is accusing people of vivid imagination
you are still to provide a requested back up to your false statements about several persons statements and views based on nothing but vivid imagination.

benotti's vews on doping are no surprise to anyone...one could agree or disagree. pls, post an argument or a reasoned opinion why you think differently. posing open-ended, mocking questions does not add any content.

 

[robertmooreheadlane]

I don't think this is the case though and isn't with almost any top athlete in the sports world. Almost without exception the only reason any of them come clean is because they have been caught red handed or they are at risk of getting everything taken away from them. And even then some like Vino will continue with the paradigm that they are victims.

Whilst they are in the world they belong to, they don't actually, consciously believe they are doing anything wrong at all, most of them have been lying to themselves and justifying their actions for so long they actually believe what they are saying. Many like Millar were told by their surrogate families that what they were doing was both ok and safe and not wrong and they believed it.
Most would sail through a polygraph test as they wouldn't need to have a reaction to the potential answers to any difficult questions as they don't see the answers as lying.
When you have grown up in an environment where every person in a position of authority and you look up to is telling you this is ok and the right way to go you stop questioning it sooner or later.
It is only when they leave the confines of the life they are in that they realise the right and wrong argument and start to think of it as a paradox if at all.
In one life they were cheating but so is everyone else so; no harm no foul.
in their new life no-one cheats so now they don't either and so life goes on.

I think many people underestimate just how powerful the human mind can be and what we are capable of getting ourselves to believe if we want something strongly enough.

If you doubt any of this, or want to look further i would suggest looking at some research into cults and radical religious indoctrination, or military indoctrination around the world. Getting one human to believe something is so; even when his whole life has been guided to believe something different; is key to most cults and religious sects or getting most soldiers to be able to kill another human being.
Just an example of the power of the mind to control our version of reality.

 

[robertmooreheadlane]

The above is the reason I do not believe the Omerta will ever be broken and that the only people to come clean will be those who are caught and the only way the riders now will be caught is a secret deal between the UCI or WADA and the drug companies supplying them. or when the retroactive testing is able to pick up what they were on 5 years from now.

Problem with the first plan is that most of the teams will just go to one of the myriad of labs in china or india and buy replicated drugs without the markers inserted by the big boys.

Problem with plan B is that it allows the likes of Sky et al to take us all for idiots and parade around like the emperor in his new clothes.

 

[blackcat]

Re:

I think many people underestimate just how powerful the human mind can be and what we are capable of getting ourselves to believe if we want something strongly enough.

powerful?

no, they sublimate autonomy. Milgram Experiment.

ultimately the human is a tribal mammal and likes to be told what to do. dont believe this freewill baloney

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

When Wiggins looks at what he has he will realise it was all got by deceit and cheating. He is a fraud. He knows it. It shows in his hate towards the media and anyone who dares question him. He is like a piece of carbon and one day will crack.

This based on anything other than a vivid imagination? How can you provide a psychological analysis of someone, like this, without having met them?

Maybe Floyd's hypothesis is better than mine,

"Take Bradley Wiggins for example, and his claim that he thought Lance Armstrong was clean up until the reasoned decision. I do have a little sympathy for him. While he's not particularly bright or articulate, if you read between his curse words it's clear that he has insecurities resulting from the fact that despite all the measures he took to win the Tour he wasn't even the strongest rider."

- Floyd Landis highlights what he sees as the contradictions and hypocrisy within the sport.

Ta BC

 

[heart_attack_man]

Re:

Why was bringing this back even necessary?

 

[Archibald]

Re: Re:

When Wiggins looks at what he has he will realise it was all got by deceit and cheating. He is a fraud. He knows it. It shows in his hate towards the media and anyone who dares question him. He is like a piece of carbon and one day will crack.

This based on anything other than a vivid imagination? How can you provide a psychological analysis of someone, like this, without having met them?

Maybe Floyd's hypothesis is better than mine,

"Take Bradley Wiggins for example, and his claim that he thought Lance Armstrong was clean up until the reasoned decision. I do have a little sympathy for him. While he's not particularly bright or articulate, if you read between his curse words it's clear that he has insecurities resulting from the fact that despite all the measures he took to win the Tour he wasn't even the strongest rider."

- Floyd Landis highlights what he sees as the contradictions and hypocrisy within the sport.

Ta BC

somehow I don't see Wigans having an issue with deceit or deceiving himself.
A Belgian born Aussie, who's not only believes he's British, but a specific type of Britan from the 60's...

 

[Benotti69]

Re:

I don't think this is the case though and isn't with almost any top athlete in the sports world. Almost without exception the only reason any of them come clean is because they have been caught red handed or they are at risk of getting everything taken away from them. And even then some like Vino will continue with the paradigm that they are victims.

Stephen Swart would beg to differ. He had a domestiques career. He doped. He confessed. He felt it was the right thing to do to confess and did so with no external pressure whatsoever.

 

[Freddythefrog]

Re: Re:

I don't think this is the case though and isn't with almost any top athlete in the sports world. Almost without exception the only reason any of them come clean is because they have been caught red handed or they are at risk of getting everything taken away from them. And even then some like Vino will continue with the paradigm that they are victims.

Stephen Swart would beg to differ. He had a domestiques career. He doped. He confessed. He felt it was the right thing to do to confess and did so with no external pressure whatsoever.

Yes - well said - one of the few to have a conscience. We need to value these characters, they are rare.

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

I don't think this is the case though and isn't with almost any top athlete in the sports world. Almost without exception the only reason any of them come clean is because they have been caught red handed or they are at risk of getting everything taken away from them. And even then some like Vino will continue with the paradigm that they are victims.

Stephen Swart would beg to differ. He had a domestiques career. He doped. He confessed. He felt it was the right thing to do to confess and did so with no external pressure whatsoever.

Yes - well said - one of the few to have a conscience. We need to value these characters, they are rare.

Kimmage did something similar. But they are few and far between.

 

[blackcat]

Re: Re:

Yes - well said - one of the few to have a conscience. We need to value these characters, they are rare.

think there were some anecdotes on Swart, that he was not the greatest person neither, supposedly the anecdote concerned bowell movements or some sh!t