Will Armstrong Help Contador on Ventoux?

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Will he?

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Jul 23, 2009
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fulcrum said:
Unless you are 100% positive that your manager is a snake that is out to get you and the teammate in question is aligned with the opposing side in your team.

Then, attacking him is exactly what you do. After that, you look back to make sure that he is not catching up and that back wheel sucking teammate has been dropped for sure. Then you ride behind your oponents to the finish line. After you put over 2 minutes into said teammate, you appear contrite to the press, telling them how much of a misunderstanding it all was. Masterful.

Then the fox in the henhouse realizes he has been outfoxed, and instead of accepting a fake apology, he sees the move for what it was, gets furious and sets his twitter on fire.

After all that, you tell the press that you will try to help the back stabbing fox retain whatever position he has at the podium.
While Contador may be paranoid I am not sure what you evidence supports your comment that Bruyneel is a snake. When has Bruyneel undercut the team leader in the past? I do not remember anyone on their prior teams that could challenge Armstrong for team leadership.

This year LA was somewhat of an unknown quality, due to a three year vacation but you really never know what is going to happen in the race (see LL crash). We know that LA was very strong in the past and did not know how strong he would be this year - clearly he was protected but that does not make Bruyneel a snake.
 
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CentralCaliBike said:
While Contador may be paranoid I am not sure what you evidence supports your comment that Bruyneel is a snake. When has Bruyneel undercut the team leader in the past? I do not remember anyone on their prior teams that could challenge Armstrong for team leadership.

This year LA was somewhat of an unknown quality, due to a three year vacation but you really never know what is going to happen in the race (see LL crash). We know that LA was very strong in the past and did not know how strong he would be this year - clearly he was protected but that does not make Bruyneel a snake.
I think when The Hog was there to help The Uniballer dump Landis' rest day refill down the toilet, FLandis would have considered him a "snake."
 
Jul 23, 2009
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Thoughtforfood said:
Do any of you fanboys have ANY reading comprehension? I stated clearly that Contador has ridden on The Uniballer's wheel. Seriously, you all post the same garbage the first 5 times you post. Most of you are only moderately literate. None of you seem to have a sense of irony. Its like there you have a school or something.
I think you mentioned that LA did not stick his nose in the wind for Contador (you must have missed those parts of the race this past week - sorry).

As for a Fanboy - I enjoyed this Tour more than any I have seen since the 1980s myself - I do like LA's style of riding (planning, team management and attention to detail) but I like the great efforts I am seeing this year no matter who is making them.

Now I wonder what the opposite of a "Fanboy" is...
 
Jun 18, 2009
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CentralCaliBike said:
I think you mentioned that LA did not stick his nose in the wind for Contador (you must have missed those parts of the race this past week - sorry).

As for a Fanboy - I enjoyed this Tour more than any I have seen since the 1980s myself - I do like LA's style of riding (planning, team management and attention to detail) but I like the great efforts I am seeing this year no matter who is making them.

Now I wonder what the opposite of a "Fanboy" is...
Have you seen any other TdF's since the '80s? How can this rate above ANY other race? The first 2 weeks were a total snooze-fest! What, exactly, makes a race enjoyable for you? :eek:
 
Jul 23, 2009
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Cobber said:
Have you seen any other TdF's since the '80s? How can this rate above ANY other race? The first 2 weeks were a total snooze-fest! What, exactly, makes a race enjoyable for you? :eek:
I have watch as much as was available since the late 70s (in the US) - there have been technically strong lead outs in the sprints - strong mountain riding by at least five top riders in nearly all of the mountain stages - the pockadot jersey has been contested by those climbers who could not stay in the GC hunt - the green jersey race has been contested throughout with a sprinter taking a flyer on a mountain stage to grab a few more points that will keep him in the green jersey against the best sprinter in the world.

We even get a completely dysfunctional team in Astana who start without a clear leader, announce that the manager and co-leader will not be with the team next year, and then announce a new pro tour team for next season. A squable between two top teams in Garmin and Columbia. Gossip and soap opera type drama.

I have not had this much entertainment since Lemond and Hinault battled it out.
 
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CentralCaliBike said:
I think you mentioned that LA did not stick his nose in the wind for Contador (you must have missed those parts of the race this past week - sorry).

As for a Fanboy - I enjoyed this Tour more than any I have seen since the 1980s myself - I do like LA's style of riding (planning, team management and attention to detail) but I like the great efforts I am seeing this year no matter who is making them.

Now I wonder what the opposite of a "Fanboy" is...
I'm sorry, would you post the video of Lance actually pulling with Contador on his wheel? I am not talking about Lance sitting on Kloden's wheel with Contador behind, but Armstrong actually WORKING for Contador.

Past that, I am glad you are enjoying this Tour. I for one have found the last week entertaining as well, but the first two weeks were some of the worst stages I have ever witnessed. ESPECIALLY the Tourmalet stage. Whomever is responsible for that paracours should be thrown in jail...
 
Jul 23, 2009
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Thoughtforfood said:
I'm sorry, would you post the video of Lance actually pulling with Contador on his wheel? I am not talking about Lance sitting on Kloden's wheel with Contador behind, but Armstrong actually WORKING for Contador.

Past that, I am glad you are enjoying this Tour. I for one have found the last week entertaining as well, but the first two weeks were some of the worst stages I have ever witnessed. ESPECIALLY the Tourmalet stage. Whomever is responsible for that paracours should be thrown in jail...
I guess we will have to disagree on that - I even found that the extremely technical TTT was interesting (and favored those who did there homework - and were strong).
 
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CentralCaliBike said:
I guess we will have to disagree on that - I even found that the extremely technical TTT was interesting (and favored those who did there homework - and were strong).
I am definitely not a TTT fan, and believe that if used, there should be a fairly small maximum time limit. It favors the teams with the most money more than anything.
 
Jul 23, 2009
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Thoughtforfood said:
I am definitely not a TTT fan, and believe that if used, there should be a fairly small maximum time limit. It favors the teams with the most money more than anything.
I tend to think that the GC will always favor the team with the most money because team strength is what can protect even the strongest rider. The TTT is interesting for me because I know it is very technical and requires a lot of practice and attention to detail - to win the TTT also requires a very strong team (or at least three to four very strong riders - see Garmin this year).
 
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CentralCaliBike said:
I tend to think that the GC will always favor the team with the most money because team strength is what can protect even the strongest rider. The TTT is interesting for me because I know it is very technical and requires a lot of practice and attention to detail - to win the TTT also requires a very strong team (or at least three to four very strong riders - see Garmin this year).
Very true about the money, but I think overly so in the case of the TTT. Though it isn't like Saxo is a poor team and they didn't do too well...either way, I still think taking individual riders out of contention because of a TTT should be minimized.
 
Jul 24, 2009
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shouldn't Contador ride for Lance?

I think you have it backwards. The question should be will Contador ride for Lance?
Think about it.
Contador has the Tour sewn up. He can let anyone go up the road a minute or two.
BUT - he has shown that he's not a great team rider. (Ask Kloden)
Who wants to ride with someone who you know will rarely give anything back to his teammates? No one wants to get used up and spit out.
I believe that Contador should tow Lance up Ventoux!
To help the team hold onto 3rd place.
 
Jul 21, 2009
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CentralCaliBike said:
While Contador may be paranoid I am not sure what you evidence supports your comment that Bruyneel is a snake. When has Bruyneel undercut the team leader in the past? I do not remember anyone on their prior teams that could challenge Armstrong for team leadership.

This year LA was somewhat of an unknown quality, due to a three year vacation but you really never know what is going to happen in the race (see LL crash). We know that LA was very strong in the past and did not know how strong he would be this year - clearly he was protected but that does not make Bruyneel a snake.
Well, the list is long and my time is limited, so I will share only two situations. The most recent one happened on the ITT. JB drove with Lance instead of the yellow jersey. That is plain disrespectful.

JB promised AC he would be THE team leader earlier in the year. Then he changed the rules when Lance decided to enter the Tour and JB let the "road decide", declining to include domestiques AC had expresedly requested. Enough evidence?
 
Jul 6, 2009
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wigglytoes said:
I think you have it backwards. The question should be will Contador ride for Lance?
Think about it.
Contador has the Tour sewn up. He can let anyone go up the road a minute or two.
BUT - he has shown that he's not a great team rider. (Ask Kloden)
Who wants to ride with someone who you know will rarely give anything back to his teammates? No one wants to get used up and spit out.
I believe that Contador should tow Lance up Ventoux!
To help the team hold onto 3rd place.
This argument has been made repeatedly here and elsewhere (the Versus board is almost unreadable...) and it's absolutely insane. The yellow jersey wearer (and his ENTIRE TEAM) should work for one thing - to protect their lead. There's no way in the world that Contador should let anyone dangerous get up the road, even just a minute off a 4 minute lead. Do you also want Contador to go get water bottles for Lance, too?

Besides, all Lance did for 7 years was chew teammates up and spit them out. Did they ever complain? No, because HE did his job and won the race for the TEAM all 7 years. That's exactly what Contador needs to do tomorrow - make sure that HE wins the Tour for the TEAM, not worry himself about where the others are in the standings.
 
Jul 6, 2009
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CentralCaliBike said:
I think you mentioned that LA did not stick his nose in the wind for Contador (you must have missed those parts of the race this past week - sorry).

As for a Fanboy - I enjoyed this Tour more than any I have seen since the 1980s myself - I do like LA's style of riding (planning, team management and attention to detail) but I like the great efforts I am seeing this year no matter who is making them.

Now I wonder what the opposite of a "Fanboy" is...
2003 was the best in my memory since Lemond pipped Fignon at the line in Paris. 2003 had it all - a close race, the leader showing weakness, herculean efforts by Ullrich with NO team, many top riders in top form, great stages, crashes, unplanned mountain biking, all topped off by a lone guy holding off the peloton for 60k after the final mountain of the Tour. The memory is certainly stained by the revelations about the riders since then, but at the time it was the greatest race I'd ever seen.
 
Jul 21, 2009
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wigglytoes said:
I think you have it backwards. The question should be will Contador ride for Lance?
Think about it.
Contador has the Tour sewn up. He can let anyone go up the road a minute or two.
BUT - he has shown that he's not a great team rider. (Ask Kloden)
Who wants to ride with someone who you know will rarely give anything back to his teammates? No one wants to get used up and spit out.
I believe that Contador should tow Lance up Ventoux!
To help the team hold onto 3rd place.
Contador doesn't give a flying fuck about Armstrongs 3rd place or Kloden's for that matter. And rightly so. They are and will be in his shitlist for years to come.
 
Jul 21, 2009
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Thoughtforfood said:
I am definitely not a TTT fan, and believe that if used, there should be a fairly small maximum time limit. It favors the teams with the most money more than anything.

IMO, TTT should have no time limits, but should affect only the Teams GC, not the individual one. I still think there is enough incentive for sponsors to try to win that stage. Maybe to compensate they could add an extra ITT or make the existing ones a little longer.
 
Jul 23, 2009
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fulcrum said:
IMO, TTT should have no time limits, but should affect only the Teams GC, not the individual one. I still think there is enough incentive for sponsors to try to win that stage. Maybe to compensate they could add an extra ITT or make the existing ones a little longer.
I would be OK with increasing the number or length of the ITTs but if you do not give the time to the team you may have some problems with the dysfunctional types.

Hhow about stopping the clock on the first five and then averaging the times of those who arrive later and adding the average. That would make for some more excitement (and cause the managers some real stress over what tactic to take with the weaker riders). If you have a rider drop during the stage there could be a time penalty as well (unless it involved an accident and injury).
 
May 13, 2009
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Tomorrow, AC should bury those two backstabbing jerks: Lance and Bruynel !! Go as soon as the steep ks come. Go hard, put in two minutes, shatter Mayo's record, let Schleck bros arrive 2-3, they deserve it, and put the right guys in the podium.

VAMOS ALBERTO!!! :D
 
Jul 23, 2009
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fulcrum said:
Well, the list is long and my time is limited, so I will share only two situations. The most recent one happened on the ITT. JB drove with Lance instead of the yellow jersey. That is plain disrespectful.

JB promised AC he would be THE team leader earlier in the year. Then he changed the rules when Lance decided to enter the Tour and JB let the "road decide", declining to include domestiques AC had expresedly requested. Enough evidence?
Snake seems to suggest sneaking and lying - Bruyneel did neither by following LA in a car (disrespectful if not for the prior relationship that Bruyneel has not hidden perhaps); as for the promise, "things change". Bruyneel left one rider off that LA wanted and another that Contador was hoping for - given the way the team has performed the only "mistake" I see was the Kasakh rider which had to be added for the "financiers".
 
Jul 23, 2009
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indurain666 said:
Tomorrow, AC should bury those two backstabbing jerks: Lance and Bruynel !! Go as soon as the steep ks come. Go hard, put in two minutes, shatter Mayo's record, let Schleck bros arrive 2-3, they deserve it, and put the right guys in the podium.

VAMOS ALBERTO!!! :D
The "right guys" are the smartest and strongest racers - that may or may not be the Schleck brothers.
 
I doubt it...

Not sure which of the Contador / Astana / Armstrong threads this should go so have put it in a couple – apologies if this breaks with forum protocol…

Contador is the leader of Astana by virtue of the fact he is the best rider – best climber and best ITT. It is his job to win the race. It's the job of the team to support him to win the race.

Contador is doing his job with bells on. His tactics have consistently been about winning the race. He has been singly focused on this – and frankly that’s the best way to make sure of winning the toughest bike race in the World. You can’t be looking over your shoulder and worrying about everyone else.

The team on the other hand have in my opinion been somewhat more mixed in their support of their team leader. Some of the moves on the road well documented in this thread would leave any team leader asking a few questions about people’s priorities and personal agenda at the dinner table.

While the motives behind road tactics are open to interpretation some of the stuff that’s been on twitter or said to the media is totally out of order in my opinion. If anybody said anything like that on any team I have ever been on they'd be called on it. A team mate should not be questioning the team leader’s choices or commenting on his performance in public. How does any of the comments made make it more likely for Alberto to be in yellow in Paris – they don’t. It’s totally unacceptable and to me it's in a different league than anything that Contador has done on the road.

I accept there are some unique circumstances here – the Lance Factor if you like. I have nothing specifically against Lance – I actually think his achievements rank up there with the best of the best. But my sense of what is appropriate has been stretched to breaking point with the Radio Shack thing. How does anyone while a member of one team fighting for a podium place think its ok to announce your intention to launch a new team in the middle of the race? What about that will focus the team on supporting their leader to be in yellow in Paris? I find it hard to imagine anything more distracting or more designed to challenge loyalties on the team. Never mind you also announce Trek will coming along too – the bike sponsor of your existing team!

I think tomorrow Contador will sit in the wheels on Ventoux. He will only follow Andy S and I expect if he has the opportunity to win the stage he will attack in the last couple of kilometres. I don’t think Armstrong or Wiggins will have the legs to put any distance into anyone – they will be hanging on. There is a good chance that Frank will make up the 40 s he needs to get on the podium and push Lance into 4th.

I would not expect Contador to be doing anything to help Lance – it’s not his job! And it won’t matter on Ventoux – Armstrong will either be able to stay up their or not.

Contador is the cycling equivalent of a genius in my opinion. I hope he finds a team that is more definitive in its support and worthy of his prodigious talent.
 
Jul 21, 2009
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Survive

Armstrong will have to dig deep to survive the ride up and not to lose time to F Schelck. Contador can take care of himself...as he has had to up to know.
 
Jul 21, 2009
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180mmCrank said:
I doubt it...

Contador is the leader of Astana by virtue of the fact he is the best rider – best climber and best ITT. It is his job to win the race. It's the job of the team to support him to win the race.
....
Contador is the cycling equivalent of a genius in my opinion. I hope he finds a team that is more definitive in its support and worthy of his prodigious talent.
Well said lad! It is atrocious how Astana has acted with regards to Contador.
 
Jun 9, 2009
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I see frank and andy going up the road with alberto staying behind to pace lance. Once frank has enough time to move on to the podium Alberto will then pull to the side of the road and wait until sufficient time has passed so lance can move onto the podium again because at the end of the day Lance's final gc position is way more important than the mj.
 
Jun 27, 2009
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39*23t said:
I see frank and andy going up the road with alberto staying behind to pace lance. Once frank has enough time to move on to the podium Alberto will then pull to the side of the road and wait until sufficient time has passed so lance can move onto the podium again because at the end of the day Lance's final gc position is way more important than the mj.
I couldn't agree more

All for one, one for Lance !?! :rolleyes:
 

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