Will Contador help Armstrong on Ventoux?

[Publicus]

I think we're all just baffled that the question you're asking isn't:

"Will Armstrong finally help Contador on Ventoux?"

Exactly. This is just a mind numbingly stupid thread.

 

[ezratm]

In every race each team has a team leader who is the rider that will be the highest placed rider at the end of the race.
We all know how much some of you love lance but he is a Domestic and that is it he should set the pace infront of AK and AC and when he has done his job of protecting his leader and cant keep up the pace peel off just like any other domestic for any team.
Lance has had his glory days, it is now his chance to help his team and protect his leader.

 

[autologous]

Latest Wilcockson tweet:

"To all those who asked, AC has to be team player on Ventoux if he wants to gain stature in the peloton and in the media. We'll see Saturday."

Maybe he's figured this out, maybe not. Many of you obviously have not.

who aside from predominately Lance supporting US readers gives a flying f*k what wilcockson says?

You're attributing a level of influence and/or knowledge that isn't there.

Wilcockson has some insight on what the rest of the peleton feels? Maybe some contacts in Lance-ville, maybe Vaughters and a parts of Columbia. The rest of the peleton, the spanish cycling fans, the other euro fans, most of the cycling world - why would they give a crap what a reporter from some 2nd rate US cycling mag has to say?

 

[scribe]

only if he's a complete idiot (which i'm unable to rule out). Totally unnecessary. Mission is accomplished. Now they can focus on secondary goals, like getting others on the podium.

hahahahaha

 

[scribe]

In every race each team has a team leader who is the rider that will be the highest placed rider at the end of the race.
We all know how much some of you love lance but he is a Domestic and that is it he should set the pace infront of AK and AC and when he has done his job of protecting his leader and cant keep up the pace peel off just like any other domestic for any team.
Lance has had his glory days, it is now his chance to help his team and protect his leader.

He has left the team officially. I think you will see something different than a domestic effort.

 

[pankadog]

I think the question is will Armstrong serve as his domestique or put his own podium ambitions first.

.

Armstrong will put his podium dream ahead of everything. He has been working for himself throughout the Tour. He criticized AC for dropping Andreas K., but how many times did he drop his teammates when he won his yellow jerseys? It was never even a question when he attacked that maybe Landis, Hamilton, Levi or Heras would suffer on GC from it. I find it fascinating how passive aggressive he is toward AC. And the media doesn't even mention it....

 

[ezratm]

He is still wearing the Astana Jersey so unless he has no respect for the team he should work to protect his team leader just like meany have done for him over the years.
As for seeing somthing different, he has not ridden for anyone but himself for the entire race and he has been droped every time.
I am not rulling him out because historicly he has done some amazing rides but as a sportsman and a member of a team untill next year he should do his job.

 

[slcbiker]

Don't think AC really needs LAs help on Ventoux. That said, if for some reason he is losing the yellow, I would certainly imagine both LA and AK will help.
At this point though, I think spots 1&2 are pretty well locked up. The big question is three. I'd imagine that unless AC looks to be in trouble, Brunyeel will have given LA and AK free reign.

Whether AC would actually help is another question. Certainly another podium spot would help the team, employees and sponsor. But not sure that is enough to overcome the iffy feelings between LA and AC.

 

[yourwelcome]

Hell Lance can't drop Wiggins

...you're actually not even watching the Tour, are you?

And to the OP, no, why would Contador pass up a win on Mt Ventoux? Sure he made a mistake the other day but hardly worth giving away a win as cool as Ventoux. Plus, staying back with Lance will mean Andy Schleck wins it anyway.

 

[Publicus]

...you're actually not even watching the Tour, are you?

And to the OP, no, why would Contador pass up a win on Mt Ventoux? Sure he made a mistake the other day but hardly worth giving away a win as cool as Ventoux. Plus, staying back with Lance will mean Andy Schleck wins it anyway.

I watch it everyday. Saturday isn't a 5 mountain climb with steep gradients. So I don't see him dropping Wiggins or anyone else for that matter (well ok Menchov is a given )

But I agree with your post otherwise.

 

[saphblue]

who aside from predominately Lance supporting US readers gives a flying f*k what wilcockson says?

You're attributing a level of influence and/or knowledge that isn't there.

Wilcockson has some insight on what the rest of the peleton feels? Maybe some contacts in Lance-ville, maybe Vaughters and a parts of Columbia. The rest of the peleton, the spanish cycling fans, the other euro fans, most of the cycling world - why would they give a crap what a reporter from some 2nd rate US cycling mag has to say?

It's been interesting to see how the European fans are responding to this tempest in a teapot vs. U.S. fans.

So, winning Ventoux was one of Lance's reasons for returning to racing? Fantastic. He should race his *** off and win it then.

 

[frizzlefry]

Hell Lance can't drop Wiggins

I'm speechless.

 

[Publicus]

I'm speechless.

Ok, my bad. It wasn't the Schlecks accelerations and the accumulation of steep climbs. It was purely Lance just dropping him.

My bad.

 

[frizzlefry]

Ok, my bad. It wasn't the Schlecks accelerations and the accumulation of steep climbs. It was purely Lance just dropping him.

My bad.

Ok did we watch the same race. Lance attacks Wiggins. Wiggins responds and closes. Lance attacks again later, drops Wiggins, puts 1 minute into Wiggins. The Schlecks were up the friggin road with AC.

 

[fulcrum]

Are you saying it's IMPOSSIBLE that Contador will help Armstrong on Ventoux?

Ninety, all these people getting on your case and you are absolutely right. Contador is going to help Lance up Mont Ventoux. He will help Lance for sure. Alberto will set the tempo for Armstrong for about the same amount of km-s Lance set the tempo for Alberto during all these tour stages. It is only fair to recognize the domestique that way. In fact, Alberto has already stated publicly that he has no problem helping Lance get into the podium.

http://www.as.com/ciclismo/articulo/ciclismo-orgullo-comparen-indurain/dasclm/20090724dasdaicic_8/Tes

Interviewer: Armstrong ha recuperado el tercer puesto (Armstrong got his 3rd spot back)
AC: Es una buena noticia para nosotros. Ojalá pueda echarle una mano para que mantenga esa posición, como me encantaría que Klöden entrara en el podio de París. A ver si acaban ambos entre los tres primeros.
That is good news for us. I hope I can lend him a hand so he can keep that spot, I'd be delighted if Kloden would get in the podium in Paris. Let's see if they both finish between the top three.


Oh Alberto, always saying the right things

According to my calculations, as a domestique Lance has accumulated zero km of tempo riding for Contador so far, so that is exactly the amount Lance will get from Contador at Ventoux. Wait and see, take a pen and paper and count the distance.

 

[Publicus]

Ok did we watch the same race. Lance attacks Wiggins. Wiggins responds and closes. Lance attacks again later, drops Wiggins, puts 1 minute into Wiggins. The Schlecks were up the friggin road with AC.

Watched the exact same race. You attribute it to Lance's attack, I attribute it to the accumulation of trying to close the gap to the Schlecks (recall save Lance's initial "attack" VdV and Wiggins did all the work--so I attribute it to fatigue and not Lance (just like I attributed fatigue to Sastre dropping Lance on Verbier)). Wiggins out climbed him today and all the other mountain days he made the selection, even days when Lance couldn't (see, example Verbier).

 

[jamfra67]

Bruyneel should help Lance

Why should AC help Lance as opposed to Kloden? This whole mess at Astana was created by Bruyneel pandering to Lance. Lance is the past and contador the future. AC should stamp his authority and win ventoux himself. Kloden deserves to be on the podium more than Lance. For too long kloden has worked his **** for others. Lance has had his glory for 7 years and he gave nobody nothing. AC has to do othing but wait for all the attacks from the schleck and others and counter them at the end for the stage win. Who can follow will follow. Sorry there are no gifts there according to the badger it's the one who can smash the pedals harder.

 

[Publicus]

Why should AC help Lance as opposed to Kloden? This whole mess at Astana was created by Bruyneel pandering to Lance. Lance is the past and contador the future. AC should stamp his authority and win ventoux himself. Kloden deserves to be on the podium more than Lance. For too long kloden has worked his **** for others. Lance has had his glory for 7 years and he gave nobody nothing. AC has to do othing but wait for all the attacks from the schleck and others and counter them at the end for the stage win. Who can follow will follow. Sorry there are no gifts there according to the badger it's the one who can smash the pedals harder.

I hope Kloden recovers enough between tonight and Saturday. I really would like to see him leap frog up to 3rd.

 

[bigmatt24]

Yes, it is impossible that Contador will help Armstrong, at least directly. The yellow jersey is not there to help. Helpers occasionally blow a gasket. You don't risk blowing a gasket if that is the only way you can lose the Tour. You gain stature in the peloton and the media by winning the Tour, not by helping people while you're winning the Tour. Contador does not, nor should he, care whether his teammates are 2nd, 3rd, and 4th or 150th, 151st, and 152nd. He earned the right to have the team ride for him and subordinate their ambitions to his.

 

[Ninety5rpm]

I think the question is will Armstrong serve as his domestique or put his own podium ambitions first.

You mean the way Hushovd put his green jersey ambitions aside to be a domestique for his leader, Sastre? Oh wait, he didn't do that.
Or how about the way Flecha put his stage win ambitions aside to be a domestique for his leader, Menchov. Oh, wait, he didn't do that.
How about the way Wiggins put his GC ambitions aside to help his leader, CVDV? Oh wait, ...
How about the way Mark Cavendish...

Does anyone except relatively unknown true domestiques, much less a 7 time Tour champion, ride the way you expect Armstrong to ride in your unrealistic fantasies?

Remember when FLandis did too well in a time trial? Bruyneel and Armstrong chewed him out for wasting energy that could be used for supporting Armstrong in the mountains. Does anyone think that Bruyneel was screaming at Lance after the time trial?

You think Bjarne Riis screamed, or should have screamed, at Cancellara for wasting his energy? Oh wait, that's different. Yeah, well, a 7-time tour champion is different too.

Stop trying to apply the distinct and rarely used team model that was used by Postal/Disco on Astana (while forgetting to apply on it anyone else).

 

[patriot]

will cantador help Armstrong on Ventoux

Contador does not have to help Lance, he has to just focus on Frank and Andy and respond to the attacks when they come. If Armstrong is to maintain the 3rd place he has to ensure he stays with Andy, Kloden, Frank and Wiggins that is all. Contador has nothing to do but maintain his position. Contador just cannot help Armstrong has to help himself plain and simple, the strongest will survive and take the other podium spots.

Team work my *** Lance and Bruyneel has just ****ed Astana

 

[BroDeal]

You think Reese yelled, or should have screamed, at Cancellara for wasting his energy? Oh wait, that's different. Yeah, well, Armstrong is different too.

Stop trying to apply the distinct and rarely used team model that was used by Postal/Disco on Astana (while forgetting to apply on it anyone else).

It seems fitting to apply to Armstrong and Bruyneel the very standards they applied to other riders.

Since Riis has always used a model that gives lots of his rider the opportunity to win then there is no reason to apply the Bruyneel school of throught to Saxo.

If you could get over your man love for Armstrong, you might see the hypocrisy of Armstrong and Bruyneel.

 

[jamfra67]

very possible for kloden. It's going to be fire works and the law of the freshest apply. Sastre says he is in the hunte for that stage and Frank Schleck wants to get back up there. Wiggins wants to be up there so it is going to be a dogfight for 3rd. On ventoux is either u have it or u dont. It's going to be rough out there

 

[Ninety5rpm]

In every race each team has a team leader who is the rider that will be the highest placed rider at the end of the race.
We all know how much some of you love lance but he is a Domestic and that is it he should set the pace infront of AK and AC and when he has done his job of protecting his leader and cant keep up the pace peel off just like any other domestic for any team.
Lance has had his glory days, it is now his chance to help his team and protect his leader.

Do you guys even follow this sport?

Can you name even one team from this year's Tour in which there is one leader and eight pure domestiques each of which have no ambitions expect to support their leader on GC?

Of course not. Why do you expect this of Astana?

The illogic is perplexing.

 

[joeags]

Liquigas announced two leaders at the start of the race, Nibali and Kreuzinger. They were also hedging on what Pellizotti would be able to do. In theory, they had 3 leaders. Pellizotti is busy winning the King of the Mountains jersey, has he helped Nibali much? I don't remember seeing Kreuzinger turning himself inside out to help Nibali, when it was clear that he was the stronger of the two. Nibali is less than 2 minutes off the podium.

Maybe you guys should take some time out from Astana and your hatred or love of Armstrong and jump on the Liquigas screw-up. Obviously they should have had only one leader.

(edit - didn't really expect to be going along 95's train of thought...!!!)