Will Contador struggle without Bruyneel

[auscyclefan94]

Vino's comeback shows the resources are probably available to Conta. Vino may be his biggest problem.

Vino is as bigger threat as I am for this years tour...

 

[Mellow Velo]

Look you guys, if you don't ride in a long, blue line, you ain't a domestique, right?
No way would a real domestique do something like attack and try and break a stranglehold.
No way would a real domestique try and get in a break, for a stage win.

A real domestique should be riding so far up his "bosses" ass, he can see the dope cocktail he had for breakfast.

If you only watch one man in one race, there is simply no other way his minions should ride.

Vino has always ridden, "off the cuff", but he spent years as a domestique, unlike the King of Twitter, who proclaimed himself MR team leader within months of his arrival.

Bruyneel? With friends like him, Contador doesn't need enemies.

 

[Ferminal]

Look you guys, if you don't ride in a long, blue line, you ain't a domestique, right?
No way would a real domestique do something like attack and try and break a stranglehold.
No way would a real domestique try and get in a break, for a stage win.

A real domestique should be riding so far up his "bosses" ass, he can see the dope cocktail he had for breakfast.

If you only watch one man in one race, there is simply no other way his minions should ride.

Vino has always ridden, "off the cuff", but he spent years as a domestique, unlike the King of Twitter, who proclaimed himself MR team leader within months of his arrival.

Bruyneel? With friends like him, Contador doesn't need enemies.

So USPS has changed the way people think about team riders in a GC-minded team?

 

[Mellow Velo]

The are a number of factors that have change the way GT's are approached. A key one is why we have this place.
USPS took Banesto's blueprint and perfected it.

Doesn't mean it's the only way to ride a GT. Chiappucchi, Pantani?
Or just ask Oscar.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

RBR has other problems, like that douche Coolhand who banned everyone with an interesting opinion.

That guy Coolhand is well known to be a complete Lance chammy sniffer. He's stupid AND protective of his little moderating power. Truly the makings of an utter moron.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Hey Bro. You're absolutely correct.

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=193203

check out posts 23 and 24 and see what Lance fan boy Bry03Cobra called the LeMond supporters without a peep from the D PERSON.

Curious to see what that says, unfortunately (or maybe fortunately) my IP has a lifetime ban thanks to that a$$ coolhand thinking I was a TFF sockpuppet. I'm not the most internet savvy but while he was banning my IP wouldn't he have noticed that it in fact was not the sane as TFF's who lives on the other coast of the US? I guess fair play is not so important at RBR, but yeah that guy coolhand is a total Lance chamois sniffing moron.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Curious to see what that says, unfortunately (or maybe fortunately) my IP has a lifetime ban thanks to that a$$ coolhand thinking I was a TFF sockpuppet. I'm not the most internet savvy but while he was banning my IP wouldn't he have noticed that it in fact was not the sane as TFF's who lives on the other coast of the US? I guess fair play is not so important at RBR, but yeah that guy coolhand is a total Lance chamois sniffing moron.

You're not missing out on anything at RBR at all. You can still look at the reviews, etc. The forums are virtually worthless, with the exception of the Hot Deals. The quality of the discussion here is miles above the yapping that occurs at RBR.

 

[Escarabajo]

... That kinda is Vinos style, attack. solo.

Early kms before the climb to the Alpe d'Huez in 2001:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1C2c...DC2D917A&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=46

 

[Hugh Januss]

You're not missing out on anything at RBR at all. You can still look at the reviews, etc. The forums are virtually worthless, with the exception of the Hot Deals. The quality of the discussion here is miles above the yapping that occurs at RBR.

Yeah, but it was fun to go over there and yap back once in a while. Probably why they misstook me for TFF.
As for their reviews, I own a bike shop and have been in the biz for almost 40 years, their reviews mostly blow.

 

[Mellow Velo]

Never been at RBR, thank God. Had a quick read. There are none so thick as the ego driven ***.
Coolhand? Sounds more like Lance's Toolhand.


Anyhow, yes, Vino the rampant individualist, who can't become a decent domestique.
Now....let me think....loves to attack....big powerhouse engine...never gives up.
Oooh...sounds a lot like Jens Voigt to me!

Basso had both him and Jakob Piil vying for every break in the 2004/5 Tour?
Anybody going to call them poor domestiques?

 

[Mellow Velo]

Early kms before the climb to the Alpe d'Huez in 2001:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1C2c...DC2D917A&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=46

Exactly. Doing a great job of train pulling, chasing Laurent Roux.
Laurent Roux? Now there's a guy who deserves a thread of his own, here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laurent_Roux

 

[isayic]

Maybe the better question would be, will Bruyneel struggle without Contador.

Or would Armstrong struggle without Bruyneel? He wrote in his book 'It's not about the Bike' that he isn't good with tactics. I think Contador is the better tactician. It was obvious when he attaked on the stage to Andorra Arcalis. He knew when he had to start his move to gain time without getting the Yellow Yersey as it was to early in the race to defend the jersey until arriving Paris. He won the time trial with his earpeace out of order.
On the other hand he won the Giro d'Italia practically with no preparation (this is impossible without some tactical knowledge) and Bruyneel was not there. Sean Yates was the Directeur Sportif. Bruyneel arrived when it was almost sure that Contador could win.

 

[Oldman]

Vino is as bigger threat as I am for this years tour...

Note I didn't say he had a prayer of winning. The discussion is will Conta succeed without Bruyneel on Astana. He should but the drama won't be over. Much like the overreaction to anything posted on this thread.

 

[cyclegeek]

He attacked in 2005 when he was trying to get on the podium and knew he was leaving for another team....and was chased by his own team. As good as Vino is he spent much of his career working for others.

And in the stage when Beloki crashed in front of LA while they were chasin Vino again. He's attacked many times on his own, solo. There is nothing wrong with that, actually I think it's refreshing. The point is, getting back to topic, I think AC will have a problem with that. I certainly don't think that Vino has a chance to contend for the TDF in the big picture.

 

[Hugh Januss]

And in the stage when Beloki crashed in front of LA while they were chasin Vino again. He's attacked many times on his own, solo. There is nothing wrong with that, actually I think it's refreshing. The point is, getting back to topic, I think AC will have a problem with that. I certainly don't think that Vino has a chance to contend for the TDF in the big picture.

Contador can follow the best uphill (and anywhere else), why not have a teammate who attacks and then follow the contenders when they chase? It puts more pressure on the other teams than it does on Astana and Contador.

 

[cyclegeek]

Contador can follow the best uphill (and anywhere else), why not have a teammate who attacks and then follow the contenders when they chase? It puts more pressure on the other teams than it does on Astana and Contador.

Again, I like that style, it's a refreshing break from the lets sit and wait style. I just don't think AC will handle it well.

 

[cyclegeek]

Note I didn't say he had a prayer of winning. The discussion is will Conta succeed without Bruyneel on Astana. He should but the drama won't be over. Much like the overreaction to anything posted on this thread.

Thats funny. I don't know if you've noticed but this whole site is the over reaction site. I thought I was the only one that noticed.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Again, I like that style, it's a refreshing break from the lets sit and wait style. I just don't think AC will handle it well.

No, Lance wouldn't handle it well, Contador is an attacker and not as much a calculator. He has said one of his favorite tour stages was the one where he bridged to teammate Popovich on the last major climb of the day and they tried to hold off the favorites group on the long descent to the small finish climb. They evenually got caught, but the point is where LA would have just sat in until the last climb and would have most likely considered AC's move to be wasted energy, Contador just likes to race his bike and isn't afraid to try and fail sometimes.

 

[cyclegeek]

No, Lance wouldn't handle it well, Contador is an attacker and not as much a calculator. He has said one of his favorite tour stages was the one where he bridged to teammate Popovich on the last major climb of the day and they tried to hold off the favorites group on the long descent to the small finish climb. They evenually got caught, but the point is where LA would have just sat in until the last climb and would have most likely considered AC's move to be wasted energy, Contador just likes to race his bike and isn't afraid to try and fail sometimes.

O.K. you win.

 

[Psalmon]

I was training in the basement last night and came across this on the tape during the 2007 TdF Stage 15. At this point recall Rasmussen still was in yellow, Contador 2nd, fresh of their first mountain top duel in stage 14.

Crag Hummer interviewing Bruyneel: "You didn't expect Contador to be in this position...Does he have your permission to fly if he can and he feels good?"

JB: "Oh he has every permission to do what ever he wants if he feels like it. I've been following Contador for a long time since he turned professional, and he's been one of my favorites. There's certain riders you have a little weekness for and I've been following him all the time. I've always wanted him on the team. What I've seen this year, this Tour de France from him, he's one of the greatest climbers that I've ever seen, and he has a very strong mind, and there's certain things that made me think little bit of a guy I worked with a long time ago. I don't know if he can win the Tour this year. It might be a little early, but he's definitely going to win the Tour in the future, so I think we might be looking at the next Lance Armstrong."

That seems to answer the question and says a lot more with respect to the change in tune this year.

I've always been surprised at how JB treated AC in 2009. JB knew where the next 6-8 years of the Tour could go, but has totally bet on Lance, who has only 2 years left. JB gets a new US team platform out of it, but may be driving the team car in 2nd position or worse for a long while. You'd think savvy business guys (who knew Lance didn't have it) would have been at the very least cordial, keeping the door open down the road. Nothing like ego getting in the way of rationality. A strategic mistake like that deserves at least six more straight for AC.

 

[Colonel]

What with the smiley face after all your stupid posts?

 

[Hugh Januss]

I was training in the basement last night and came across this on the tape during the 2007 TdF Stage 15. At this point recall Rasmussen still was in yellow, Contador 2nd, fresh of their first mountain top duel in stage 14.

Crag Hummer interviewing Bruyneel: "You didn't expect Contador to be in this position...Does he have your permission to fly if he can and he feels good?"

JB: "Oh he has every permission to do what ever he wants if he feels like it. I've been following Contador for a long time since he turned professional, and he's been one of my favorites. There's certain riders you have a little weekness for and I've been following him all the time. I've always wanted him on the team. What I've seen this year, this Tour de France from him, he's one of the greatest climbers that I've ever seen, and he has a very strong mind, and there's certain things that made me think little bit of a guy I worked with a long time ago. I don't know if he can win the Tour this year. It might be a little early, but he's definitely going to win the Tour in the future, so I think we might be looking at the next Lance Armstrong."

That seems to answer the question and says a lot more with respect to the change in tune this year.

I've always been surprised at how JB treated AC in 2009. JB knew where the next 6-8 years of the Tour could go, but has totally bet on Lance, who has only 2 years left. JB gets a new US team platform out of it, but may be driving the team car in 2nd position or worse for a long while. You'd think savvy business guys (who knew Lance didn't have it) would have been at the very least cordial, keeping the door open down the road. Nothing like ego getting in the way of rationality. A strategic mistake like that deserves at least six more straight for AC.

Maybe a strategic mistake, maybe a refreshing degree of loyalty in a sport where teammates and alliances change quite often.
Have to disagree with JB's characterization of Contador as the "next Armstrong" as even if he does win 7 or more tours he will do it more with attacking panache than with LA's calculated efficiency. Which also might mean even if he does win more he probably will never win as many in a row.

 

[Hugh Januss]

What with the smiley face after all your stupid posts?

Village idiot?
I'm just kidding.

 

[cyclegeek]

Maybe a strategic mistake, maybe a refreshing degree of loyalty in a sport where teammates and alliances change quite often.
Have to disagree with JB's characterization of Contador as the "next Armstrong" as even if he does win 7 or more tours he will do it more with attacking panache than with LA's calculated efficiency. Which also might mean even if he does win more he probably will never win as many in a row.

Truer words were never said.

 

[carl spackler]

Its been touched on a little, but I guess the question I was really getting at, was to what extent is the lack of the Bruyneel doping program/uci connections gonna hurt Contador?

I'm wondering, explicitly, what advantages will he no longer have this year? methodolgy, etc. etc.

That said this has still been an interesting discussion thusfar.