Will Froome ever win a GT again?

[movingtarget]

If this is just an off year form wise I can't see why he wouldn't be in the mix for another Tour win. Regaining the form of 2013 and only Contador will be able to match him over the course of a grand tour, with Nibali close behind unless he makes another improvement in his climbing and itt. There isn't anyone among the next generation that has the all around skills (climbing & itt) to potentially give them any reason to be worried with the possible exception of Quintana and Talansky. Porte is just too fragile and wishy-washy although he has shown in at least week-long stage races that he has the right combo in the mountains and against the clock to be a threat. Now if he can hold it together for 3 weeks, and he has yet to show it, he would be among the elite...on a team other than Sky.

Has not been a great year for Sky. As a team or as individuals. Froome can't stop crashing, back problems plus illness, the tactics are strange or laughable, Porte has been out of form for most of the year. But when all is said and done I think Froome can win another GT. Things can change pretty quickly. People forget the great rider Andy Schleck was in 2008 through to 2011 and then nothing. Last year Sky were riding great as a team, Porte was in the form of his life as was Froome. This year the gods are against them. Contador also had a terrible year last year by his standards but take out his crash in the Tour and his 2014 has been much better especially if he wins the Vuelta.

 

[SeriousSam]

I dont know why lots of people think that Froome cant get back to 2013 TdF shape. He had it already this year at Dauphine. But since then he crashed, which surely affected his training as well as confidence. Thats why the poor performances since then. Not that hard to find a reason behind this lack of form. After a solid winter, barring no accidents, Contador and Froome will boss the peleton the way they did until Dauphine

Exactly. How quick people are to forget his 35 second uphill sprint intervals: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKDgNRGUIuA

Simply out of this world. What happened between the Dauphine and now that supposedly makes it impossible for Froome to regain his form?

 

[del1962]

Exactly. How quick people are to forget his 35 second uphill sprint intervals: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKDgNRGUIuA

Simply out of this world. What happened between the Dauphine and now that supposedly makes it impossible for Froome to regain his form?

Crashes and injuries, should be fine if everything goes ok next year

 

[Netserk]

Exactly. How quick people are to forget his 35 second uphill sprint intervals: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKDgNRGUIuA

Simply out of this world. What happened between the Dauphine and now that supposedly makes it impossible for Froome to regain his form?

Burned out?

If he doesn't win the Tour next year, will he be able to reach peak fitness in 2016?

 

[RownhamHill]

Poor tactics?

Not having the legs (being dropped 6 times) and having to fight to keep up are not tactics, it's called having heart and mental strength. Nobody can accuse him of being mentally weak now.

Ok Cataldo on the front was a stupid decision but Froome would have been off the back not long after that anyway.

At the risk of being flamed by all and sundry, was it really such poor tactics on Froome's part yesterday - given that ultimately he didn't lose any time?

Presumably (given the final result), rather than being dropped and 'fighting back' he was just riding to a steady power output, as he didn't want changes in pace/power output, as he's not on form. And in that scenario your main worry is probably about one (or more) of your rivals taking off and going off at a pace higher than you want to manage - leaving you losing time at your own pace, or responding and getting dropped properly.

So how do you avoid that? Given that he didn't want to ride at the front himself (taking a 5 k pull up the climb), he put his team-mate on the front to set the 'right' pace he thought he could manage that would discourage attacks. Sure it looked really odd, but without pulling himself, I wonder what the alternative was - leave someone else to set an (uncontrolled by you) pace that might have been either too fast (and dropped him properly) or too slow and risked Contador/Valverde/Purito dancing off into the distance, leaving Froome to chase/lose time.

Maybe that's nonsense, but assuming Froome isn't in form, and got up about as fast as he could manage, and given that he didn't lose any time on the stage, I'd be interested to hear what a more optimal tactic would have been, and what the risks of other tactics might have been!

 

[Netbalp]

I dont know why lots of people think that Froome cant get back to 2013 TdF shape. He had it already this year at Dauphine.

too easy question. reality is not within the limits crazy fanboys' and haters' interest.

the voices against froome are:
]
alcanelo (die hard ac fanboy, anti froomer)
BlurryVII (die hard ac fanboy)
carols (die hard ac fanboy, die hard anti froomer)
cineteq (die hard anti froomer)
DirtyWorks (die hard anti froomer)
LaFlorecita (maniacal ac fan, all the other rider were born to symbolize ac supremacy and that is their only mission, sure die hard anti froomer)
netserk (die hard ac fanboy, die hard anti froomer)
Red Rick (read Florecita above)
NoBalls and hog (the most die hard anti froomers, sure die hard ac fanboys)

the funniest thing is all of you know that im right. fate is gonna spit in your faces next year and many many many times more. keep sinking in fantasies under short term ray of hope.

 

[mrhender]

*deleted by mod*

That isn't really an argument for Froome winning another GT...

By that logic anti-contador posters and Froome fans, would never denounce him right?
Unless you are saying they are more realistic/objective in this hypothetical question?

So where does that leave us..

I'd say the discussion is warranted..

To me, Froome is a transformed man. This not limited to performances.

You have to consider the whole package..
(a few elements below)

-The well-documented history of SKY capatains being inconsistent in performances.
-Brailsford not wanting to talk much of Froome, now labelling him as one of his best riders
-Froome's accumulative insecurity on the bike
-Froomes different appraoch in assesment of his own capabilities and motives

I'am not implying any clinic stuff here..
It's about humans (psychology), (mis)management -and empiric data..

Did you see the interview with him yesterday on eurosport (before the race)?
He looked like he was almost shutting a tear, when talking of his progression.
Saying he's here to get a GT in his legs.....

I would never hold anything against him for beeing emotional, but he is transformed in a way that leaves me thinking of him as a fragile and insecure personality who's finally heading to, come to terms, with his new-found limitations and insecurity...

 

[sir fly]

I would never hold anything against him for beeing emotional, but he is transformed in a way that leaves me thinking of him as a fragile and insecure personality who's finally heading to, come to terms, with his new-found limitations and insecurity...

Yesterday's performance has certainly proved the thesis.

 

[SeriousSam]

Burned out?

If he doesn't win the Tour next year, will he be able to reach peak fitness in 2016?

Why shouldn't he? He's 29. And unlike some other racers, he led a quiet racing life up until the 2011 Vuelta. Let's put it another way: Froome is more likely to regain his 2013 form than Contador was to regain his great form (whatever that is) in 2013.

 

[Netserk]

Why shouldn't he?

Tim Kerrison/Sky training.

 

[theyoungest]

Froome currently seems to be below the level he had in his breakthrough Vuelta, which was reached by pure talent and not by the magic Kerrison training (if the stories are to be believed). Which sheds an interesting light on that training programme, indeed it seems to burn up riders pretty fast.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

I don't think a 2013 Froome would destroy Contador or Nibali on mutant 2014 Tour form, regardless (unless it was a flat ITT-heavy course.) It would probably be close.

 

[barmaher]

Although I think yesterday showed it is too early to write off Froome, I think next year is a big year for Froome.

Maybe Porte or Henao will come good, but I think if Froome isn't back to himself next year, Sky will get their cheque book out and buy a ready-made GT contender in the market.

 

[MBotero]

So Froome is having a crappy year and his"fans"strike again.Maybe some of you are forgetting that the guy is only 29,still got a few years in front of him at high level,so he could win some GT's in the next years. That of course is not a option if you believe the overtraining/Kerrison myth.Prior to Dauphine injuries he looked pretty good to me,at least at the same level with the other GT winner wannabes,so if he's not gonna win a GT in the future maybe those guys should be excluded too as potential winners.

 

[ILovecycling]

too easy question. reality is not within the limits crazy fanboys' and haters' interest.

the voices against froome are:
]
alcanelo (die hard ac fanboy, anti froomer)
BlurryVII (die hard ac fanboy)
carols (die hard ac fanboy, die hard anti froomer)
cineteq (die hard anti froomer)
DirtyWorks (die hard anti froomer)
LaFlorecita (maniacal ac fan, all the other rider were born to symbolize ac supremacy and that is their only mission, sure die hard anti froomer)
netserk (die hard ac fanboy, die hard anti froomer)
Red Rick (read Florecita above)
NoBalls and hog (the most die hard anti froomers, sure die hard ac fanboys)

the funniest thing is all of you know that im right. fate is gonna spit in your faces next year and many many many times more. keep sinking in fantasies under short term ray of hope.

the problem is, even if he reaches 2013 form again (which he did this year imo) it won't be enough to beat contador or quintana (if less than 45km of tt)

Im no big Froome hater, I dont like him too much,but I respect him as an attractive cyclist,an attacker.
IMO Froome 2013 was very good,but there was bad competition.Even in same form (2013) he is slighly worse GT rider than Contador,and worse climber than Quintana.A bit better Tour (not GT) contender than Nibali.

And thats just not enough for Tour win,barring crashes.

 

[Jspear]

the problem is, even if he reaches 2013 form again (which he did this year imo) it won't be enough to beat contador or quintana (if less than 45km of tt)

Im no big Froome hater, I dont like him too much,but I respect him as an attractive cyclist,an attacker.
IMO Froome 2013 was very good,but there was bad competition.Even in same form (2013) he is slighly worse GT rider than Contador,and worse climber than Quintana.A bit better Tour (not GT) contender than Nibali.

And thats just not enough for Tour win,barring crashes.

Its not just your opinion. Chris Froome and his team said he was in better form this year over last year.

 

[SeriousSam]

IMO Froome 2013 was very good,but there was bad competition.Even in same form (2013) he is slighly worse GT rider than Contador,and worse climber than Quintana.A bit better Tour (not GT) contender than Nibali.

Quintana hasn't shown anything like Froome's Ventaux or Ax3. Until he actually does he isn't a better climber than Froome.

 

[MBotero]

the problem is, even if he reaches 2013 form again (which he did this year imo) it won't be enough to beat contador or quintana (if less than 45km of tt)

Im no big Froome hater, I dont like him too much,but I respect him as an attractive cyclist,an attacker.
IMO Froome 2013 was very good,but there was bad competition.Even in same form (2013) he is slighly worse GT rider than Contador,and worse climber than Quintana.A bit better Tour (not GT) contender than Nibali.

And thats just not enough for Tour win,barring crashes.

Come on man you are blinded,Contador ,Quintana,Purito,Valverde they were all there in TDF 2013 and they were trashed by Froome.Froome doesn't need long TT's to win he destroyed them in the mountains,maybe you forgot he's not Wiggo.Froome 2013 was insane,to say he's worse than Contador or worse climber than Quintana is hilarious.That weak competition argument doesn't hold,try another one.Why is Nibali weaker than Contador or Quintana?

 

[damian13ster]

Exactly, although Contador wasnt in great shape in 2013, Quintana was, and in 2014 he is much less convincing. And we all know how GC looked and what was the gap to Froome.......

I stand by my opinion. If everyone arrives at top shape (even with 45k or less TT), this is what GC is going to look like:

1. Froome/Contador (within a minute of each other)
2. Nibali 2 minutes down
3. Quintana 3 minutes down or more if more TT
Everybody else at least 4 minutes down.

 

[ILovecycling]

Come on man you are blinded,Contador ,Quintana,Purito,Valverde they were all there in TDF 2013 and they were trashed by Froome.Froome doesn't need long TT's to win he destroyed them in the mountains,maybe you forgot he's not Wiggo.Froome 2013 was insane,to say he's worse than Contador or worse climber than Quintana is hilarious.That weak competition argument doesn't hold,try another one.Why is Nibali weaker than Contador or Quintana?

No,he wasnt That impressive.He was the strongest (except climbing, he was on par, or little worse than quintana) obviously,but... because Contador was utter ****, Nairo too much itt and inexperience (also not designeted leader for half of the race).Purito and Valverde I never mentioned them,they were/are nowhere near Dawg.
We can discuss it point by point, but Ive got evidence for it.
So it does hold,doesnt mean if some MBotero,who probably knows not much **** about cycling, say it doesnt hold, I have to come up with something else lol

To Nibali.He is weaker than both of them because the most important thing in a GT - Climbing.
If all of them are in top form,Nibali is just not on their climbing level.

 

[ILovecycling]

Exactly, although Contador wasnt in great shape in 2013, Quintana was, and in 2014 he is much less convincing. And we all know how GC looked and what was the gap to Froome.......

I stand by my opinion. If everyone arrives at top shape (even with 45k or less TT), this is what GC is going to look like:

1. Froome/Contador (within a minute of each other)
2. Nibali 2 minutes down
3. Quintana 3 minutes down or more if more TT
Everybody else at least 4 minutes down.

You will have hard times to follow GT's in years to come you are such a quintana troll

 

[DirtyWorks]

Just a note, characterizing me as "die hard anti froomer" is not correct.

I have strong doubts discussed in the clinic thread, but characterizing me as die hard anything when it comes to elite cyclists not only isn't accurate, but it doesn't contribute to discussion.

Die hard beer drinker? Yeah. You got me.

 

[MBotero]

No,he wasnt That impressive.He was the strongest (except climbing, he was on par, or little worse than quintana) obviously,but... because Contador was utter ****, Nairo too much itt and inexperience (also not designeted leader for half of the race).Purito and Valverde I never mentioned them,they were/are nowhere near Dawg.
We can discuss it point by point, but Ive got evidence for it.
So it does hold,doesnt mean if some MBotero,who probably knows not much **** about cycling, say it doesnt hold, I have to come up with something else lol

To Nibali.He is weaker than both of them because the most important thing in a GT - Climbing.
If all of them are in top form,Nibali is just not on their climbing level.

You got i don't know nothing about cycling,but still don't understand how he was on par or worse than Quintana given the fact the he won the damn thing.Show me the evidences,which make Quintana better than Froome
cause a noob cycling fan like me can't see them
How can you rate Nibali weaker since his form in TDF 2014 was his best ever,nobody really knows if Contador or Froome would have beat him.

 

[MBotero]

No,he wasnt That impressive.He was the strongest (except climbing, he was on par, or little worse than quintana) obviously,but... because Contador was utter ****, Nairo too much itt and inexperience (also not designeted leader for half of the race).Purito and Valverde I never mentioned them,they were/are nowhere near Dawg.
We can discuss it point by point, but Ive got evidence for it.
So it does hold,doesnt mean if some MBotero,who probably knows not much **** about cycling, say it doesnt hold, I have to come up with something else lol

To Nibali.He is weaker than both of them because the most important thing in a GT - Climbing.
If all of them are in top form,Nibali is just not on their climbing level.

You got i don't know nothing about cycling,but still don't understand how he was on par or worse than Quintana(at climbing) given the fact the he won the damn thing.Show me the evidences,which make Quintana better than Froome
cause a noob cycling fan like me can't see them
How can you rate Nibali weaker since his form in TDF 2014 was his best ever,nobody really knows if Contador or Froome would have beat him.

 

[ILovecycling]

You got i don't know nothing about cycling,but still don't understand how he was on par or worse than Quintana(at climbing) given the fact the he won the damn thing.Show me the evidences,which make Quintana better than Froome
cause a noob cycling fan like me can't see them
How can you rate Nibali weaker since his form in TDF 2014 was his best ever,nobody really knows if Contador or Froome would have beat him.

1st point:
Time Quintana gained in 3rd week (except tt and paris) on Froome
0s
1m 6s
0s
29s

2nd point:
I compare riders in top form,Im almost hundred per cent sure if Froome would be his 2013v. and Contador 2011v. Nibali would lose.
(with 2014 Nibali in mind)