Women’s RR - World Championships 2024 (September 28)

[Red Rick]

Well, who would you blame otherwise? Other than Gunnewijk, who once again has proved incapable of creating a fighting unit with one goal: to win, doesn't matter with whom. Rather than: to win, but only with Demi Vollering.


She was done though She did get a little lucky, even those who watch the race through a strictly Flemish lens would have to agree.

The whole idea of sending Vos up the road after she had been dropped the previous lap was godawful. She was never gonna be able to hang on, and it's completely expected that she finished over a minute down.

What it did is it forced Vollering to race defensively on the section where she could have attacked and definitively dropped her main rivals.

 

[yaco]

Ultimately, if Vollering was the one and only seed for Holland, then you need to line up riders to make it difficult, instead of, sending riders up the road.

 

[tobydawq]

The whole idea of sending Vos up the road after she had been dropped the previous lap was godawful. She was never gonna be able to hang on, and it's completely expected that she finished over a minute down.

What it did is it forced Vollering to race defensively on the section where she could have attacked and definitively dropped her main rivals.

In a four man group with a teammate and no big favourites?

 

[Red Rick]

In a four man group with a teammate and no big favourites?

They were basically already caught when Vollering attacked over the top of ELB

 

[theyoungest]

The whole idea of sending Vos up the road after she had been dropped the previous lap was godawful. She was never gonna be able to hang on, and it's completely expected that she finished over a minute down.

What it did is it forced Vollering to race defensively on the section where she could have attacked and definitively dropped her main rivals.

There was nothing stopping Vollering from attacking there and trying to drop her rivals. Thus joining her teammates in the front and having three Dutch riders in a group of 5. Instead she attacked when they had already caught Vos and Markus (and attacked, and attacked again... only dropping her teammates)

I understand that Vollering thinks it wasn't in her advantage to have Vos and Markus in front, but actually it was. She just had to play her cards a little smarter, which she is unable to do.

 

[Didinho]

Kopecky of course ? After you wrote Kopecky was done ! A true specialist. You can join the tv-director.

Was about the sprint. Everyone knew she was the one to beat. I really thought she was done when she got dropped.

 

[awavey]

EDIT: Anybody heard post race interviews with Dygert or ELB? Would like to know if they had anything interesting to say.

I've not seen,read or heard anything which is unusual as normally in a Wwt race at least there's plenty of post race chat with riders for their views and not just with the winners.

 

[awavey]

There was nothing stopping Vollering from attacking there and trying to drop her rivals. Thus joining her teammates in the front and having three Dutch riders in a group of 5. Instead she attacked when they had already caught Vos and Markus (and attacked, and attacked again... only dropping her teammates)

I understand that Vollering thinks it wasn't in her advantage to have Vos and Markus in front, but actually it was. She just had to play her cards a little smarter, which she is unable to do.

Though from Vollerings perspective Vos & Markus being up the road and her having to lead the chase to bring them in, wasn't optimal.

This comes back to my point about so what were the Dutch riders doing to support Demis chance to win ? I'd argue being 2 riders up the road like that was counter productive to Demis chances, even if both riders thought this is supporting the Dutch team goal to win.

Because Demi was never going to let that group carry on as it wad, she had to attack to bring it back to win.

 

[pmcg76]

Enjoyed this race even though tactics were bizarre as usual, it does make for an interesting race. Delighted to see Puck get the U-23 title.

 

[proffate]

And why not? Just saying saying what I saw, without of course knowing what was going on in their bodies or heads. Isn’t that what everyone is doing here?

I said that because dygert made the decision that made sense in the moment, without the benefit of hindsight. Kopecky looked done, not the biggest threat to win.

 

[proffate]

The whole idea of sending Vos up the road after she had been dropped the previous lap was godawful. She was never gonna be able to hang on, and it's completely expected that she finished over a minute down.

What it did is it forced Vollering to race defensively on the section where she could have attacked and definitively dropped her main rivals.

Makes no sense. If Vollering could attack and drop her rivals then having two teammates up the road when doing so is a good thing.

Makes sense to send Vos ahead if it makes other teams work instead of Vollering.

 

[Sciatic]

I said that because dygert made the decision that made sense in the moment, without the benefit of hindsight. Kopecky looked done, not the biggest threat to win.

I see what you’re saying, that makes sense.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I said that because dygert made the decision that made sense in the moment, without the benefit of hindsight. Kopecky looked done, not the biggest threat to win.

Kopecky is a good bluffer though, we've seen it before, and others have written her off as done and carried her to the line on many an occasion.

The fact she was actually done and not bluffing in Paris was the genuine shock, but paradoxically missing out on that gold medal may help her in the long run, because it might mean that she can continue to race that way because riders know that there is the chance that she actually is done like in Paris and they can get away like Faulkner did.

 

[awavey]

Agreed she's done it enough times before, and still ended up with a monster sprint that beats everyone, I can't believe any of the other riders fall for it or tow her around so much.

you'd think job 1 of any rider team wanting to win is isolate Kopecky primary objective, then worry about what the others are upto

 

[mrgmyers]

Aaand Dutch media is solely laying the blame on Vollering. Predictable and idiotic all at once.

Watching the race I have to say what I saw was Vollering riding for Vollering no matter what that did for the Dutch team. She appears a little obsessed with her rivalry with Kopecky and seems to feel everyone should work to her advantage she was upset that others in her group on the road were not working to assist her goals. I wonder what teams she is approaching for next season may be thinking if they have stable set ups right now.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Imagine Pogacar getting caught on the last lap. His move would be perceived as one of the most stupid in recent memory and as a big chance lost. Despite his victory, I still think it was too early and too risky. IMO he would've won more comfortably had he attacked inside the final 50 km but the winner is always right, right?

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Imagine Pogacar getting caught on the last lap. His move would be perceived as one of the most stupid in recent memory and as a big chance lost. Despite his victory, I still think it was too early and too risky. IMO he would've won more comfortably had he attacked inside the final 50 km but the winner is always right, right?

Maybe it's just me, but I find it hard to imagine Pogačar getting caught on any lap of the women's race

 

[RedheadDane]

Maybe it's just me, but I find it hard to imagine Pogačar getting caught on any lap of the women's race

Attacking a whole day early would have been extreme, even for him...

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Attacking a whole day early would have been extreme, even for him...

He probably could have ridden the race as a domestique for Urška and Co. and still won the day after. Maybe he could even have ridden non-stop all week and kept a gap of around 40 seconds through all the road races.

 

[awavey]

Watching the race I have to say what I saw was Vollering riding for Vollering no matter what that did for the Dutch team. She appears a little obsessed with her rivalry with Kopecky and seems to feel everyone should work to her advantage she was upset that others in her group on the road were not working to assist her goals. I wonder what teams she is approaching for next season may be thinking if they have stable set ups right now.

and who were the Dutch team riding for then ? I believe Vollering was designated team leader right, so she'd expected to be supported by the team in riding for her personal aim which was very clearly stated as the goal was she was going for the win, no one expected her to ride any differently, except maybe some of the Dutch team, and her attack on the climb was pre-planned, so how did they box themselves into such a situation ?

Chloe Dygert summed it up best
"I think sometimes the Dutch can work very well together, and I think sometimes they don't," Dygert said carefully. "I think their biggest strengths are also their biggest weaknesses. I think everybody on that team wants to win and that sometimes causes everybody to lose."

and thats where the issue was, people are criticising Vollerings tactics, but she rode the race the way she did because she really wanted to win, and other riders on her team were riding they way they did because they wanted to win instead, and the combined outcome of those competing aims, especially in a race without radios, meant none of them could win, because they basically neutralised the advantage they could have created or used against other teams, in numbers.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Attacking a whole day early would have been extreme, even for him...

Come on, Pogacar's Z2 is like Z4 for top girls. He could attack from the gun and build a ridiculous advantage easily lapping the field.

 

[mrgmyers]

and who were the Dutch team riding for then ? I believe Vollering was designated team leader right, so she'd expected to be supported by the team in riding for her personal aim which was very clearly stated as the goal was she was going for the win, no one expected her to ride any differently, except maybe some of the Dutch team, and her attack on the climb was pre-planned, so how did they box themselves into such a situation ?

Chloe Dygert summed it up best
"I think sometimes the Dutch can work very well together, and I think sometimes they don't," Dygert said carefully. "I think their biggest strengths are also their biggest weaknesses. I think everybody on that team wants to win and that sometimes causes everybody to lose."

and thats where the issue was, people are criticising Vollerings tactics, but she rode the race the way she did because she really wanted to win, and other riders on her team were riding they way they did because they wanted to win instead, and the combined outcome of those competing aims, especially in a race without radios, meant none of them could win, because they basically neutralised the advantage they could have created or used against other teams, in numbers.

I do not hold Vollering alone for her failure, but she was getting very frustrated with people from other teams NOT her own team who appeared to be riding everyone for themselves.

 

[proffate]

and who were the Dutch team riding for then ? I believe Vollering was designated team leader right, so she'd expected to be supported by the team in riding for her personal aim which was very clearly stated as the goal was she was going for the win, no one expected her to ride any differently, except maybe some of the Dutch team, and her attack on the climb was pre-planned, so how did they box themselves into such a situation ?

Chloe Dygert summed it up best
"I think sometimes the Dutch can work very well together, and I think sometimes they don't," Dygert said carefully. "I think their biggest strengths are also their biggest weaknesses. I think everybody on that team wants to win and that sometimes causes everybody to lose."

and thats where the issue was, people are criticising Vollerings tactics, but she rode the race the way she did because she really wanted to win, and other riders on her team were riding they way they did because they wanted to win instead, and the combined outcome of those competing aims, especially in a race without radios, meant none of them could win, because they basically neutralised the advantage they could have created or used against other teams, in numbers.

Yeah but you remove Vollering and the Dutch might actually win. I mean look at Vos laying the smack down on Kopecky at gravel worlds. If I were the Dutch coach I would legit stop selecting Vollering (although it would probably get me fired).

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Yeah but you remove Vollering and the Dutch might actually win. I mean look at Vos laying the smack down on Kopecky at gravel worlds. If I were the Dutch coach I would legit stop selecting Vollering (although it would probably get me fired).

The Dutch have a long history of tactical blunders long predating Vollering though. It's just that often they could get bailed out by Vos thinking for herself, or van der Breggen or van Vleuten just being able to brute force a victory taking the tactics out of the equation.

 

[Red Rick]

Yeah but you remove Vollering and the Dutch might actually win. I mean look at Vos laying the smack down on Kopecky at gravel worlds. If I were the Dutch coach I would legit stop selecting Vollering (although it would probably get me fired).

Lmao.

Remove Vollering and the Dutch have 0 threats and other teams just drop the other Dutch riders no biggie.

She isn't the brightest and made plenty of errors, but the degree to which she's been solely blamed has been insane.