World Championships 2024: Men's Road Race (September 29)

[Zoetemelk-fan]

This, although I cannot believe they thought he would fold. He's been doing that all year. They were playing Group 2 games that you normally see with 10k left, only with 100 to go.

Both Remco and MvDP stated post race that they had a short chattering with each other when Pogi went and agreed that it was a suicide attack and they were sure Pogi would go stone cold at some moment.
It is, after all, a different level than the Strade Bianche (Pogi on beforehand pics a point +80km before the finish line and then carries it out on the roads).
Myself I was in doubt until after the last descent, i.e. just with 8-9 km to go, I was thinking "Pogi has this in his bag".

Ofc it was way too late for the other favourites to discover the danger, and using sticks for a festival of counter attacks on the last lap didn't do any good. If MvDP, Hirschi, Remco, Skuijns, Healey, O'Conner, Simmons had found an unbroken collaboration with e.g. 60km to go, then in my world they would have timed it, so Pogi was out of the game in the final. Was my POV right since Pogi decided for an exploration of a journey.

But luckily, bike racing doesn't work like that with personalities.
And instead we got a poundingly intense race with our nerves on the outside of our clothes until three quarters of the way into the last lap.

At least I had an exhillerating time.
I can read others, between the lines, comparing the WC RR with other races where Pogi has finished it from far away and therefore with 100km again writes "race decided, how boring".

I think it's a shame, because you miss a lot of good details that way.

Details that for me made this edition one of the very best since I begun following the men's WC RR in 1980 Sallanches.

 

[Danskebjerge]

It's kind of positive to see how many people still apply the old logic to cycling, insisting that if a rider goes in a solo breakaway, he can be caught if only the others cooperate. I do think that's the way it should be in most cases. But it isn't any longer, and it hasn't been like that for some years. Why do people continue to believe that Pogacar's solo wins can always be prevented? It's like he has won like this a hundred times, and yet we still see that naive claim that his success is based on tactics. It's not. His success is based on his ability to push MANY more watts than the others. All the riders acknowledge this - he's on a totally different level. But a surprisingly big number of cycling fans won't realise it. It must have some kind of psychological reason.

 

[Salvarani]

It's kind of positive to see how many people still apply the old logic to cycling, insisting that if a rider goes in a solo breakaway, he can be caught if only the others cooperate. I do think that's the way it should be in most cases. But it isn't any longer, and it hasn't been like that for some years. Why do people continue to believe that Pogacar's solo wins can always be prevented? It's like he has won like this a hundred times, and yet we still see that naive claim that his success is based on tactics. It's not. His success is based on his ability to push MANY more watts than the others. All the riders acknowledge this - he's on a totally different level. But a surprisingly big number of cycling fans won't realise it. It must have some kind of psychological reason.

Some regonizes him as the GOAT. Like legends of the sport already does. Current riders as well.

Others, they dont. Maybe they need more time to see it.

 

[Zoetemelk-fan]

It's kind of positive to see how many people still apply the old logic to cycling, insisting that if a rider goes in a solo breakaway, he can be caught if only the others cooperate. I do think that's the way it should be in most cases. But it isn't any longer, and it hasn't been like that for some years. Why do people continue to believe that Pogacar's solo wins can always be prevented? It's like he has won like this a hundred times, and yet we still see that naive claim that his success is based on tactics. It's not. His success is based on his ability to push MANY more watts than the others. All the riders acknowledge this - he's on a totally different level. But a surprisingly big number of cycling fans won't realise it. It must have some kind of psychological reason.

To me it's highly due to I regard the worlds being a completely other level of competition.
In his spring of Strade Bianche I had no doubt that the race was over in the moment he went at Monte Sante Maria +80km from the finish line.

Still there is an ingredient of impressiveness for me.
And that what we are witnessing in these years is something very special and for me it is just about enjoying it while it is. Also regarding MvDP in P-R and likewise displays.

I don't know if I'm too indulgent (or too ignorant not to let myself indulge in the clinical debate[[content deleted]]).

Here a starting point for the debate on this subject:

Tadej Pogačar’s 80-kilometre Strade Bianche solo - Boring racing or an enjoyable spectacle?

The Slovenian’s performance evoked a sense of both amazement and defeat

www.rouleur.cc

Of course, I always prefer a race that has excitement all the way to the finish line.

But when Pogi showed weakness on the last lap after no time with more than 1:30 min advance on his main competitors for an entire 100k of breakaway, well then it was a nice unknown who for me maintained the intensity in the race.

 

[Danskebjerge]

But when Pogi showed weakness on the last lap after no time with more than 1:30 min advance on his main competitors for an entire 100k of breakaway, well then it was a nice unknown who for me maintained the intensity in the race.

I was about to think so too at that point, but since I couldn't recall any similar situation where Pogacar has cracked, I didn't get too excited tbh.

It was, like RedRick wrote, just an illusion like when Vingegaard beat him in a sprint in the Tour.

Tactics is more or less dead in men's cycling, except for the lower rated races and in sprinter races.

 

[Barkintheeye]

Tactics is more or less dead in men's cycling, except for the lower rated races and in sprinter races.

Some truth in that yet MSR and PR will still prove a big challenge to him. Probably he can do it but it will be harder than this win.

 

[Danskebjerge]

We need more unpredictable races, like this one:

View: https://youtube.com/shorts/A8xYp3SZkao?si=uqK_GmF9i84T0klq

 

[DenisMenchov]

I was about to think so too at that point, but since I couldn't recall any similar situation where Pogacar has cracked, I didn't get too excited tbh.

It was, like RedRick wrote, just an illusion like when Vingegaard beat him in a sprint in the Tour.

Tactics is more or less dead in men's cycling, except for the lower rated races and in sprinter races.

You can call tactics dead all you want, but it was quite obvious during live broadcast that once Novak was done, his best chance of winning is attack the peloton then and there. Roglic looked like dogs**** and Belgium had 6! riders in the peloton with Netherlands having both Mollema and MVDP. His main goal in this race was to get in front of Remco and MVDP and that's what he did, Belgium and Netherlands instead of realizing the danger immediately wasted precious kilometers in first establishing the chase and then just controlling with Campenaerts vs Tratnik instead of reeling him in with everyone, they blew their whole team on the climb and destroyed both themselves and the peloton. Once the group was destroyed they wasted more energy in constant attacks then Pogi did upfront.

If Pogi doesn't go in front of Remco, MVPD and Hirshi I doubt he wins this. All it takes is one attack to stick and no one wants to work with him anymore.

Yes, Pogi was the strongest rider in the race, but he also won it with tactics. Belgium did horrible and ended up without a medal, that tells a lot about this race or are you telling me that Remco is just not good enough to beat BOC in a one day race?

 

[Danskebjerge]

If Pogi doesn't go in front of Remco, MVPD and Hirshi I doubt he wins this. All it takes is one attack to stick and no one wants to work with him anymore.

I would agree with you if it was about the last 20-30 kilometers. But this was 100. No matter how bad the chase is coordinated, such a solo ride wouldn't succeed under normal circumstances.

 

[KZD]

No one can deny that we were witnessing history in the 2004 Tour.

So?

What is your point exactly?

In 2004, I would have said the same thing about Armstrong difference being that Pogačar is a much more interesting rider in my opinion because he doesn't base his all season around the Tour and he wins with spectacular long solos.

 

[Leinster]

I would agree with you if it was about the last 20-30 kilometers. But this was 100. No matter how bad the chase is coordinated, such a solo ride wouldn't succeed under normal circumstances.

Gilbert got his Flanders win with the same kind of attacking, he just wasn’t as marked as Pogi. It’s *possible* for a mere 2/3* favourite to pull off an effort like that in front of a disjointed chase.

Tadej made it work because he IS the best in the world right now. But yes, a part of his tactics was clearly to be way out in front and riding his own race once the big teams had been whittled down to just the leaders.

 

[AmRacer]

I would agree with you if it was about the last 20-30 kilometers. But this was 100. No matter how bad the chase is coordinated, such a solo ride wouldn't succeed under normal circumstances.

Pogi had help for 50 km and could rest in the breakaway bunch for 20-25 km

 

[scribers]

We need more unpredictable races, like this one:

View: https://youtube.com/shorts/A8xYp3SZkao?si=uqK_GmF9i84T0klq

So you’re a remco fan eh? lol

 

[scribers]

Let’s game this out. Pogi doesn’t attack, follows and covers attacks until the final lap. Does he have enough to get away on that steep ramp?

The contenders attacked the climb vigorously yesterday and reduced pogis lead by 30+ seconds. That’s not nothing. With MVP in the thick of that accomplishment you begin to understand pogis pathway to victory had to come from two laps out. If remco has team strength, maybe not even two laps out would have worked.

I think pogi attacked to bridge to the breakaway group. Then he puts tratnik at the front of that group and told him to fuckng smash his pedals. You could see that moment of confusion on tratniks face right before he did exactly that. Pogi wanted to maximize his chance to win by risking everything. Fooling both mvp and remco who know pogi as well as anyone.

 

[scribers]

Pogi had help for 50 km and could rest in the breakaway bunch for 20-25 km

I don’t think he rested in the group that long. I’d have to go back and look. He quickly put tratnik in the front of it and asked him to go lights out

 

[Krzysztof_O]

100 km from the line:
Remco: Look at Pogacar, it's a suicide attack!
MVP: Yeah, it's stupid. He's doomed, we will smoke him later.
1 hour later:
Remco (making gestures): Oh s**t, we are doomed, not him! Move your a**es.
At the finish:
...

 

[AmRacer]

I don’t think he rested in the group that long. I’d have to go back and look. He quickly put tratnik in the front of it and asked him to go lights out

Tratnik told Pogi to rest in the bunch.

 

[Danskebjerge]

Pogi had help for 50 km and could rest in the breakaway bunch for 20-25 km

He was out in the wind for the last 2 hours. Unprecedented. From another planet.

 

[Danskebjerge]

Gilbert got his Flanders win with the same kind of attacking,

I believe that was from 50 k out. It was a sensation at the time. Pogacar did it with twice that distance left. More than an hour more alone in the wind. And it wasn't sensational.

 

[Barkintheeye]

T

I don’t think he rested in the group that long. I’d have to go back and look. He quickly put tratnik in the front of it and asked him to go lights out

As I recall it they just blast past and started pulling immediately

 

[AmRacer]

Let's play the scenario where Mathieu and Remco chased Tadej and the three of them arrive at the last km. Mathieu would win the sprint with Tadej as second. Remco was doomed when he couldn't drop Mathieu.

 

[scribers]

I’m looking now. They met the lead group at 91k remaining. Quickly moved to the front with pogi raising the speed of the group at the front while downhill. On the back the Belgians are desperately drilling the peloton. Pogi continues out front until at 87k. Tratnik takes over in the front and Pogi drifts to the front/middle of the pack. They were unconsciously cooking the Belgians in the peloton. It’s tratnik vs campi from two different groups. The Belgians are gaining and Pogi can see this on the moto board. Pogi shelters for 6k before moving up to tratnik asking him to drill it at the lap start. Pogi sits behind tratnik for Pogi takes off for good at 78.5k when tratnik is cooked.

 

[AmRacer]

I’m looking now. They met the lead group at 91k remaining. Quickly moved to the front with pogi raising the speed of the group at the front while downhill. On the back the Belgians are desperately drilling the peloton. Pogi continues out front until at 87k. Tratnik takes over in the front and Pogi drifts to the front/middle of the pack. They were unconsciously cooking the Belgians in the peloton. It’s tratnik vs campi from two different groups. The Belgians are gaining and Pogi can see this on the moto board. Pogi shelters for 6k before moving up to tratnik asking him to drill it at the lap start. Pogi sits behind tratnik for Pogi takes off for good at 78.5k when tratnik is cooked.

Then Pogi got help from next teammate.

 

[Netserk]

What is your point exactly?

In 2004, I would have said the same thing about Armstrong difference being that Pogačar is a much more interesting rider in my opinion because he doesn't base his all season around the Tour and he wins with spectacular long solos.

That I found your conjunction pointless, illustrating that by an analogous example, and so asked what your point was: "So?"

"Sure there are some that may not like but no one can deny that we are witnessing history."

How does the latter relate to the former? You say the two are in tension by using "but" as your conjunction.

If someone didn't like Armstrong's dominance of the 2004 Tour, what kind of rejoinder is it to say that a 6th Tour win was a historic feat? That does absolutely nothing to mitigate the dread of Armstrong's reign. When he took his 3rd stage win in a row by sprinting past Klöden (who ended up never winning a Tour stage), the day after catching Basso (2nd in GC) in the MTT, how is anyone going to dislike that any less because "we are witnessing history"?

No one has denied that it's a historic feat. You might as well say "no one can deny that he won solo". Duh. So what?

 

[Netserk]

First British Tour winner!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"Sure there are some that may not like but no one can deny that we are witnessing history."