World Championships 2024: Men's Road Race (September 29)

[Danskebjerge]

Yes absolutely. This is the race that the Imola 2020 circuit could have provided but the riders and teams were still wedded to the old style of racing of waiting for the last lap.

Pogacar went with I think 42km and 2 laps to go but nobody went with him and he was nowhere near as strong as he is now.

Okay, then a 150 k solo break is next.

 

[Unchained]

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And then the next questions are: Okay, "amazing", but was it exciting - is this the way we want a world championship race to be?
[/QUOTE
Each person enjoys a race, any race for different reasons,
When I saw gap keep going down, not dramatically, but I saw O'Connor, Remco, Mollema, MvdP in the chase, each pulling to some extent, I knew like all have said Pogacar had overplayed, dumb move, ultimately a loser and from experience,100 k out is usually suicide. So everything, everyone that should have happened didn't. I am glad Wout Van Aert and I were not in the same room for last @25 k because that was awesome bike racing by anyone in any era.
I honestly thought that they had him when gap went to @325 metres, but I was wrong, happily.
This type of story is how you sell bike racing.. Ben O'Connor being chased,an underdog by proven champion. Good Vuelta
Marked champion pissed off about Olympic national snafu, goes to Switzerland with something to prove. Most of the best showing up w jerseys, Olympic medals, national championships, GT podiums.. Decent script..
And hometown Swiss guy shows up coming off double trouble, signed with Swiss professional team, leaving behind Pogacar and UAE and coasting into Zurich with 5 consecutive professional victories.. none won in a sprint..
MvdP post race interview " I thought it was a stupid move, suicide, but for Pogacar, obviously not, the guy was brilliant " or something close to that..
So can he hold it from 100k..exciting to me personally, will he be caught and almost was exciting for me!!
And the rider from my town who I woke up to see, lost contact on lap five, ultimately DNF..

 

[Sciatic]

Both Remco and MvDP stated post race that they had a short chattering with each other when Pogi went and agreed that it was a suicide attack and they were sure Pogi would go stone cold at some moment.
It is, after all, a different level than the Strade Bianche (Pogi on beforehand pics a point +80km before the finish line and then carries it out on the roads).
Myself I was in doubt until after the last descent, i.e. just with 8-9 km to go, I was thinking "Pogi has this in his bag".

Ofc it was way too late for the other favourites to discover the danger, and using sticks for a festival of counter attacks on the last lap didn't do any good. If MvDP, Hirschi, Remco, Skuijns, Healey, O'Conner, Simmons had found an unbroken collaboration with e.g. 60km to go, then in my world they would have timed it, so Pogi was out of the game in the final. Was my POV right since Pogi decided for an exploration of a journey.

But luckily, bike racing doesn't work like that with personalities.
And instead we got a poundingly intense race with our nerves on the outside of our clothes until three quarters of the way into the last lap.

At least I had an exhillerating time.
I can read others, between the lines, comparing the WC RR with other races where Pogi has finished it from far away and therefore with 100km again writes "race decided, how boring".

I think it's a shame, because you miss a lot of good details that way.

Details that for me made this edition one of the very best since I begun following the men's WC RR in 1980 Sallanches.

Aside from claims about boring, which I don’t agree with as long as I’m still watching, I think there is a combination frustration/disappointment with Pogacar’s very long distance attacks. Mainly because of the exasperation a lot of us feel with the failure of collaboration in the chasing group. It’s become so predictable these last few years.

 

[Peyroteo94]

When they were cooperating, they gained 15 seconds, no more after that. They just weren't strong enough against the best engine in the world in this type of terrain.

 

[Sciatic]

When they were cooperating, they gained 15 seconds, no more after that. They just weren't strong enough against the best engine in the world in this type of terrain.

Just because we see a chasing group in a paceline for a stretch doesn’t mean they are really collaborating to catch an opponent, because every rider measures their effort against the others and takes a two-second pull and then pulls off. It merely keeps the time gap stable without significantly reducing it. Had MVDP, Remco, Skujins (sp), and Hirschi committed to drive the pace as long as they needed, they could have caught him. But that’s wishful thinking that will happen.

 

[Sciatic]

Just because we see a chasing group in a paceline for a stretch doesn’t mean they are really collaborating to catch an opponent, because every rider measures their effort against the others and takes a two-second pull and then pulls off. It merely keeps the time gap stable without significantly reducing it. Had MVDP, Remco, Skujins (sp), and Hirschi committed to drive the pace as long as they needed, they could have caught him. But that’s wishful thinking that will happen.

That it took the MVDP-Remco such a long time to catch Skujins and Healy demonstrated how poorly that Grp 3 was cooperating.

 

[DaLong]

Maybe people are too aerodynamic nowadays, let's throw some type of sail on everyone's bike (say, +.20 CdA) so the benefit of working together and staying in the pack once again proves fatal for the breakaway.

Alas, I was entertained - congrats to Pogacar.

 

[saunaking]

The only tactics in this race were bad tactics. Remco and MVDP should have been on Pogi's wheel every meter of this race, even when he was pissing in the bushes.

 

[joe_papp]

And then the next questions are: Okay, "amazing", but was it exciting - is this the way we want a world championship race to be?

I thought it was exciting. Good commentary helps a lot though. (And the coverage I watched via Tiz which featured Robbie McEwen was good.)
And the fact that Pog attacked w/ 100km to go meant the compelling part of the coverage was twice as long as I'd've expected.

 

[gregrowlerson]

Feels like the gap has been 40”-1’ for the last 3 laps. Insane.

Reading all of these posts later, the gap always being 40 seconds reminds me of "it's an 8".

 

[Salvarani]

The only tactics in this race were bad tactics. Remco and MVDP should have been on Pogi's wheel every meter of this race, even when he was pissing in the bushes.

They had one job. Respond when he attacks. Instead they relied on lesser riders to reel him back, when they knew he had Tratnik infront to tow him.

Then solo from 50k... 220k into the race. At that point you either have to be stronger than him or cooperate well with other riders. Neither was the case here.

 

[Danskebjerge]

And the fact that Pog attacked w/ 100km to go meant the compelling part of the coverage was twice as long as I'd've expected.

If it hadn't been the top favourite for the gold medal - a rider who was already the world number one, with countless solo wins in his career -, I might have agreed with you.

[[content deleted]]

 

[Danskebjerge]

Instead they relied on lesser riders to reel him back

Don't think they relied on anything. He was the top favourite. It was red alert when he attacked, and they knew it. They just couldn't follow him, and they couldn't catch him afterwards, even though they had 2-3 hours to do it.

It's happened a hundred times before - Pogacar goes early, and it's game over. And people have complained about the bad chasing in just as many cases. They just won't accept that there is something more important than tactics and cooperation, and that's pushing MANY more watts than all the others.

 

[Salvarani]

Don't think they relied on anything. He was the top favourite. It was red alert when he attacked, and they knew it. They just couldn't follow him, and they couldn't catch him afterwards, even though they had 2-3 hours to do it.

It's happened a hundred times before - Pogacar goes early, and it's game over. And people have complained about the bad chasing in just as many cases. They just won't accept that there is something more important than tactics and cooperation, and that's pushing MANY more watts than all the others.

Neither Remco and VdP seemed to be in a great position to be able to respond in the first place. They werent paying attention.

So that they couldnt follow is something we will never know. They definitely should have either way.

Because you cant tell me the ones who tried... Bagioli and a rider from US, who was dropped, was stronger than Mvdp or Remco at the point of the attack. I doubt Pog would have dropped either and that first attack would have been neutralized.

They were out of position or thought it was foolish, but it quickly changed when their teammates disappeared while Pog was being towed by Tratnik and got help from Sivakov until 50k.

 

[VO2 Max]

It's happened a hundred times before - Pogacar goes early, and it's game over. And people have complained about the bad chasing in just as many cases. They just won't accept that there is something more important than tactics and cooperation, and that's pushing MANY more watts than all the others.

It has to be both these things. For any move like to work it needs the attacker to be super strong and for the others to make mistakes. Pog had the ability to ask the others a really big question and Belgium, and Evenepoel in particular, fluffed their response. Remco can say what he likes afterwards but he was visibly panicking for 20 or 30km after Tadej got away.

 

[scribers]

MVP made the race the way it was with his presence. By heading up the road alone pogi left those behind to deal with mvp rather than himself. There are only a few ways to drop mvp on a course like this given mvps condition. And you don’t want to drag him to the line either from leading postion or from the chase

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Remco reminds me of Europa Universalis game player. As one of the majors, when up against the Vinge juggernaut (the military superpower of Prussia in the game), he allies himself with the unstoppable boss of the game, 18th century Ottoman Pog. But when the boss is threatening his interest, he leans himself towards another great power, van der Poel, maybe the Napoleonic France of the game. In process, he - the great emperor of Holy Roman Empire himself - throws tantrum and casus belli at will upon all the minnows around.

I don't dislike the guy, one hell of a bike rider that behave like an eternal kid, it's fine with me as far as entertainment goes.

until suddenly the surprise Ryukyu empire overthrows all

 

[cen]

Hoe Jan Tratnik op het WK wist dat Tadej Pogacar op komst was en bidons een sleutelrol speelden

Interview Was de ‘achterlijke aanval’ – zoals Tadej Pogačar het zelf noemde – op het WK afgelopen zondag nu wel zo achterlijk? Was het echt instinct, of toch een plan uit het bakje van de Slovenen? Want was het niet te toevallig dat Jan Tratnik wist dat zijn kopman eraan kwam? En was het niet […]

www.wielerflits.nl

Tratnik getting tips from race moto.. blatant moto doping if you ask me..

 

[scribers]

Hoe Jan Tratnik op het WK wist dat Tadej Pogacar op komst was en bidons een sleutelrol speelden

Interview Was de ‘achterlijke aanval’ – zoals Tadej Pogačar het zelf noemde – op het WK afgelopen zondag nu wel zo achterlijk? Was het echt instinct, of toch een plan uit het bakje van de Slovenen? Want was het niet te toevallig dat Jan Tratnik wist dat zijn kopman eraan kwam? En was het niet […]

www.wielerflits.nl

Tratnik getting tips from race moto.. blatant moto doping if you ask me..

That’s cool. I was wondering how he knew to drop back and just assumed the chalk board must have showed it somehow

 

[tobydawq]

Picture this: you get to see one of the most impressive performances in the history of the sport you like and someone few find a reason to complain about that too. I couldnt agree more what you typed and were truly lucky to witness this I sure am and what a time to be alive to watch cycling and that im young and appriciate something everyone will miss and be the measure mark for everyone to come when its all said and done and a rider that will be talked about for centuries to come. Chapeau. Its like getting to watch that Maradona goal live every person talked about for ages which younger generation never got to see live, its pure epic and were all incredible lucky thats all.

I think this is quite a forced take. It cannot be considered a surprise or unreasonable that many people think it a sad thing that the competitiveness of bike racing has taken a hit.

After all, this sport is, unlike most other get-to-the-line-first sports, by its nature a sport where high speed, wind resistance and duration allow for scenarios where the strongest doesn't always win. The fact that Pogi has somehow managed to almost circumvent that is of course lamentable to a lot of people and obviously takes something from the sport. People were not universally thrilled by Merckx' dominance either.

I myself will be watching Il Lombardia from 10 AM and also have a hard time understanding people who call themselves cycling fans who say they are not going to watch a monument at all but to disregard the sentiment that the sport has become poorer for the extreme dominance of a few riders is quite unreasonable.

 

[tobydawq]

wasnt it the Giro of last year anynone miss tha edition? I for my part cant understand why anyone would want that snooze fest over whats literally history but thats just my take on it difference in opinion and what like to watch is okei, just personally think there will always be those few who naturally like to complain no matter what aswell.
Ratings are extremely high though and climbing so theres that too.

This has nothing to do with my point. Giro 2023 was an abhorrent race and doesn't at all encapsulate what I was talking about. 2024 was better but still not nearly as good as the Giri from 2015 to 2018.

 

[tobydawq]

Dont think its that strange to not watch something you think you are not going to enjoy

I'm just saying that there's more to a bike race than just who wins it and you cannot be that interested in cycling if you miss a monument at your own volition.

To give an example, I don't call myself a big F1 fan and I certainly stopped watching last season when Verstappen won 90% of all races. Yet I imagine that real fans stuck with it and found other story lines to pay attention to.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

Not at all. I can only speak for myself but I disagree I wouldnt watch so frequently if it was Nicki Terspra vs Hushovd sprinting to the line who won.

Can't see any race in the 194 where they shared a startline when they finished in a two up sprint (only time they were both top ten outside of timetrials was 2009 Omloop; I have no strong recollection of that edition, but Omloop is normally a very watchable race.)

But a putative race in which they had been head to head at the end would surely have been tactically and by parcours an intriguing one that I would have wanted to see.

 

[Berflamand]

Can't see any race in the 194 where there shared a startline when they finished in a two up sprint (only time they were both top ten outside of timetrials was 2009 Omloop, I have no strong recollection of that edition, but Omloop is normally a very watchable race.)

But a putative race in which they had been head to head at the end would surely have been tactically and by parcours an intriguing one that I would have wanted to see.

I would assume he meant Terpstra vs Kristoff at RVV a few years back.

Either that or just an imaginary situation.

Also, I guess Paris-Roubaix would have been the most realistic race to have had a possible head to head between Terpstra and Hushovd.

Both RVV and PR are obviously races which are almost always enjoyable to watch, especially if there is a two up sprint at the end which means the race hadn't been decided an hour before the end like this year.

 

[scribers]

I'm just saying that there's more to a bike race than just who wins it and you cannot be that interested in cycling if you miss a monument at your own volition.

To give an example, I don't call myself a big F1 fan and I certainly stopped watching last season when Verstappen won 90% of all races. Yet I imagine that real fans stuck with it and found other story lines to pay attention to.

I've stopped watching sports when the funding creates a lopsided advantage. I stopped watching when sky dominated everything for so long. As someone has said, Pogi is going to win even if the 7 dwarves are on his team, in spite of sportswashing oil grub. I don't mind at all witnessing this sort of strength and would have loved to be old enough to watch Merckx do it in real time.