World Championships 2024: Men's Road Race (September 29)

[Danskebjerge]

We need more unpredictable races, like this one:

View: https://youtube.com/shorts/A8xYp3SZkao?si=uqK_GmF9i84T0klq

 

[DenisMenchov]

I was about to think so too at that point, but since I couldn't recall any similar situation where Pogacar has cracked, I didn't get too excited tbh.

It was, like RedRick wrote, just an illusion like when Vingegaard beat him in a sprint in the Tour.

Tactics is more or less dead in men's cycling, except for the lower rated races and in sprinter races.

You can call tactics dead all you want, but it was quite obvious during live broadcast that once Novak was done, his best chance of winning is attack the peloton then and there. Roglic looked like dogs**** and Belgium had 6! riders in the peloton with Netherlands having both Mollema and MVDP. His main goal in this race was to get in front of Remco and MVDP and that's what he did, Belgium and Netherlands instead of realizing the danger immediately wasted precious kilometers in first establishing the chase and then just controlling with Campenaerts vs Tratnik instead of reeling him in with everyone, they blew their whole team on the climb and destroyed both themselves and the peloton. Once the group was destroyed they wasted more energy in constant attacks then Pogi did upfront.

If Pogi doesn't go in front of Remco, MVPD and Hirshi I doubt he wins this. All it takes is one attack to stick and no one wants to work with him anymore.

Yes, Pogi was the strongest rider in the race, but he also won it with tactics. Belgium did horrible and ended up without a medal, that tells a lot about this race or are you telling me that Remco is just not good enough to beat BOC in a one day race?

 

[Danskebjerge]

If Pogi doesn't go in front of Remco, MVPD and Hirshi I doubt he wins this. All it takes is one attack to stick and no one wants to work with him anymore.

I would agree with you if it was about the last 20-30 kilometers. But this was 100. No matter how bad the chase is coordinated, such a solo ride wouldn't succeed under normal circumstances.

 

[KZD]

No one can deny that we were witnessing history in the 2004 Tour.

So?

What is your point exactly?

In 2004, I would have said the same thing about Armstrong difference being that Pogačar is a much more interesting rider in my opinion because he doesn't base his all season around the Tour and he wins with spectacular long solos.

 

[Leinster]

I would agree with you if it was about the last 20-30 kilometers. But this was 100. No matter how bad the chase is coordinated, such a solo ride wouldn't succeed under normal circumstances.

Gilbert got his Flanders win with the same kind of attacking, he just wasn’t as marked as Pogi. It’s *possible* for a mere 2/3* favourite to pull off an effort like that in front of a disjointed chase.

Tadej made it work because he IS the best in the world right now. But yes, a part of his tactics was clearly to be way out in front and riding his own race once the big teams had been whittled down to just the leaders.

 

[AmRacer]

I would agree with you if it was about the last 20-30 kilometers. But this was 100. No matter how bad the chase is coordinated, such a solo ride wouldn't succeed under normal circumstances.

Pogi had help for 50 km and could rest in the breakaway bunch for 20-25 km

 

[scribers]

We need more unpredictable races, like this one:

View: https://youtube.com/shorts/A8xYp3SZkao?si=uqK_GmF9i84T0klq

So you’re a remco fan eh? lol

 

[scribers]

Let’s game this out. Pogi doesn’t attack, follows and covers attacks until the final lap. Does he have enough to get away on that steep ramp?

The contenders attacked the climb vigorously yesterday and reduced pogis lead by 30+ seconds. That’s not nothing. With MVP in the thick of that accomplishment you begin to understand pogis pathway to victory had to come from two laps out. If remco has team strength, maybe not even two laps out would have worked.

I think pogi attacked to bridge to the breakaway group. Then he puts tratnik at the front of that group and told him to fuckng smash his pedals. You could see that moment of confusion on tratniks face right before he did exactly that. Pogi wanted to maximize his chance to win by risking everything. Fooling both mvp and remco who know pogi as well as anyone.

 

[scribers]

Pogi had help for 50 km and could rest in the breakaway bunch for 20-25 km

I don’t think he rested in the group that long. I’d have to go back and look. He quickly put tratnik in the front of it and asked him to go lights out

 

[Krzysztof_O]

100 km from the line:
Remco: Look at Pogacar, it's a suicide attack!
MVP: Yeah, it's stupid. He's doomed, we will smoke him later.
1 hour later:
Remco (making gestures): Oh s**t, we are doomed, not him! Move your a**es.
At the finish:
...

 

[AmRacer]

I don’t think he rested in the group that long. I’d have to go back and look. He quickly put tratnik in the front of it and asked him to go lights out

Tratnik told Pogi to rest in the bunch.

 

[Danskebjerge]

Pogi had help for 50 km and could rest in the breakaway bunch for 20-25 km

He was out in the wind for the last 2 hours. Unprecedented. From another planet.

 

[Danskebjerge]

Gilbert got his Flanders win with the same kind of attacking,

I believe that was from 50 k out. It was a sensation at the time. Pogacar did it with twice that distance left. More than an hour more alone in the wind. And it wasn't sensational.

 

[Barkintheeye]

T

I don’t think he rested in the group that long. I’d have to go back and look. He quickly put tratnik in the front of it and asked him to go lights out

As I recall it they just blast past and started pulling immediately

 

[AmRacer]

Let's play the scenario where Mathieu and Remco chased Tadej and the three of them arrive at the last km. Mathieu would win the sprint with Tadej as second. Remco was doomed when he couldn't drop Mathieu.

 

[scribers]

I’m looking now. They met the lead group at 91k remaining. Quickly moved to the front with pogi raising the speed of the group at the front while downhill. On the back the Belgians are desperately drilling the peloton. Pogi continues out front until at 87k. Tratnik takes over in the front and Pogi drifts to the front/middle of the pack. They were unconsciously cooking the Belgians in the peloton. It’s tratnik vs campi from two different groups. The Belgians are gaining and Pogi can see this on the moto board. Pogi shelters for 6k before moving up to tratnik asking him to drill it at the lap start. Pogi sits behind tratnik for Pogi takes off for good at 78.5k when tratnik is cooked.

 

[AmRacer]

I’m looking now. They met the lead group at 91k remaining. Quickly moved to the front with pogi raising the speed of the group at the front while downhill. On the back the Belgians are desperately drilling the peloton. Pogi continues out front until at 87k. Tratnik takes over in the front and Pogi drifts to the front/middle of the pack. They were unconsciously cooking the Belgians in the peloton. It’s tratnik vs campi from two different groups. The Belgians are gaining and Pogi can see this on the moto board. Pogi shelters for 6k before moving up to tratnik asking him to drill it at the lap start. Pogi sits behind tratnik for Pogi takes off for good at 78.5k when tratnik is cooked.

Then Pogi got help from next teammate.

 

[Netserk]

What is your point exactly?

In 2004, I would have said the same thing about Armstrong difference being that Pogačar is a much more interesting rider in my opinion because he doesn't base his all season around the Tour and he wins with spectacular long solos.

That I found your conjunction pointless, illustrating that by an analogous example, and so asked what your point was: "So?"

"Sure there are some that may not like but no one can deny that we are witnessing history."

How does the latter relate to the former? You say the two are in tension by using "but" as your conjunction.

If someone didn't like Armstrong's dominance of the 2004 Tour, what kind of rejoinder is it to say that a 6th Tour win was a historic feat? That does absolutely nothing to mitigate the dread of Armstrong's reign. When he took his 3rd stage win in a row by sprinting past Klöden (who ended up never winning a Tour stage), the day after catching Basso (2nd in GC) in the MTT, how is anyone going to dislike that any less because "we are witnessing history"?

No one has denied that it's a historic feat. You might as well say "no one can deny that he won solo". Duh. So what?

 

[Netserk]

First British Tour winner!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"Sure there are some that may not like but no one can deny that we are witnessing history."

 

[gunara]

100 km from the line:
Remco: Look at Pogacar, it's a suicide attack!
MVP: Yeah, it's stupid. He's doomed, we will smoke him later.
1 hour later:
Remco (making gestures): Oh s**t, we are doomed, not him! Move your a**es.
At the finish:
...

Remco reminds me of Europa Universalis game player. As one of the majors, when up against the Vinge juggernaut (the military superpower of Prussia in the game), he allies himself with the unstoppable boss of the game, 18th century Ottoman Pog. But when the boss is threatening his interest, he leans himself towards another great power, van der Poel, maybe the Napoleonic France of the game. In process, he - the great emperor of Holy Roman Empire himself - throws tantrum and casus belli at will upon all the minnows around.

I don't dislike the guy, one hell of a bike rider that behave like an eternal kid, it's fine with me as far as entertainment goes.

 

[scribers]

Watching now to see how much work sivakov actually does. Pogi ships several seconds on the climb waiting for pavel to catch up. Pogi seems content with pavel on his wheel. Seems to understand how much pressure he is putting on everyone it’s 73k and pavel still on pogis wheel barely holding on constantly standing to stay on and pogi seated tempo. Gap goes out to 50 seconds. Feed zone at 72k pogi still in front of pavel. Gap goes down to 40 seconds as peloton attacks each other. We don’t see pogi for several km. Cut to 69k pavel is in front of pogi. Gap stays around 42 seconds. At 68k pavel and pogi swapping turns. 43 seconds. Showing mostly the chase as they are attacking each other and disorganized. Pogi in front at 66k stays there. Gap goes back out to 50 seconds. Pavel takes a turn in front at 63k. Gap comes back down to 43. Pogi quickly moves to front again. Storms downhill. A lot of mvp and remco in front of chase group behind trying to bring Pogi back. Pavel takes a turn at 60k. Gap comes back down to 39. Pogi will see this on the board. Knows there’s not enough benefit behind sivakov. 56k Pogi in front drilling. 54k sivakov takes a turn. Pogi quickly back to the front. Has a look at the lap screen for the situation. Pogi in front at 52k. I’m belly laughing at remcos tantrums. Pogi in front at beginning of climb. Untethers sivakov at 51.5k. Alone forever after.

Pogi leads the duo at least 80% of the time across 25k.

 

[scribers]

Then Pogi got help from next teammate.

Just did an analysis of that. Pogi lead the duo at least 80% of the time. Shipped several seconds waiting for sivakov at the split. And continually lost seconds to the chase every time sivakov lead the pair.

 

[Zoetemelk-fan]

I would agree with you if it was about the last 20-30 kilometers. But this was 100. No matter how bad the chase is coordinated, such a solo ride wouldn't succeed under normal circumstances.

To me it was very well helped with the situation of having Tratnik in the front group. Without Tratnik at this very crucial moment, besides having Sivakov doing pulls with him afterwards (French team manager can't be that happy about that one, but I bet Gianetti was) and the situation had been a pure solo race for Pogi, I'm of the conviction that the closing stages of the race would've been quite more delicate

 

[scribers]

Let's play the scenario where Mathieu and Remco chased Tadej and the three of them arrive at the last km. Mathieu would win the sprint with Tadej as second. Remco was doomed when he couldn't drop Mathieu.

MVP in the middle of all this doomed the chase. It was never going to organize use and work for the defending champion.

 

[Rob5091]

MvdP had only Mollema and no one would want to drag MvdP to the line for a sprint, so it was either Remco goes long too or it's a win for Pogi.