World Politics

[mr. tibbs]

I can only imagine you are speaking of a utopia-ish govt entity providing the means to pay for everyone's care. Now, we all are aware of how efficient the Federal Govt is so I'll just leave it at that.

the fear of a great many people. i want no part of health care that is run with the same efficiency as the irs or the dmv.

Medicare, anyone?

As for "You pay for yours; I pay for mine," doesn't a larger pool of insured mean less is paid by all, but we can still get the same coverage? Isn't pooled risk the premise that insurance is based on? And what about the savings involved in not passing health care dollars through for profit companies? Keep in mind that all the premium increases we've been seeing all these years have been cooked up by the industry--and it wasn't to pay for lawsuits.

@Scott, sorry about the "Good work" post earlier. That was kind of insulting, which you didn't deserve. I just get worked up. Maybe I should go back to ignoring this thread.

 

[buckwheat]

That is a winning combination right there. We'll reduce regulations and at the same time reduce the means people have of recouping losses when they are harmed by companies taking advantage of the reduce regulation to harm their customers. You never worked for the Bush administration, did you?

Be careful. I think he's John Yoo. You don't want to get tortured.

 

[Anonymous]

No, you're right. The rest of the Republican Party just wishes Strom Thurmond would have been POTUS.

Actually the Civil Rights Act was a part of Johnson's Great Society. Thanks to you and Newt for the meaningless distinction though.

http://www.ushistory.org/us/56e.asp

The Civil Rights Act of 1964 was part of Lyndon B. Johnson's "Great Society" reform package — the largest social improvement agenda by a President since FDR's "New Deal." Here, Johnson signs the Civil Rights Act into law before a large audience at the White House.

I think your side has a former Klansman that is still a sitting Senator.

Theres plenty of dirt to go 'round in Washington. Hopefully we can agree on that.

 

[Anonymous]

Medicare, anyone?

As for "You pay for yours; I pay for mine," doesn't a larger pool of insured mean less is paid by all, but we can still get the same coverage? Isn't pooled risk the premise that insurance is based on? And what about the savings involved in not passing health care dollars through for profit companies? Keep in mind that all the premium increases we've been seeing all these years have been cooked up by the industry--and it wasn't to pay for lawsuits.

@Scott, sorry about the "Good work" post earlier. That was kind of insulting, which you didn't deserve. I just get worked up. Maybe I should go back to ignoring this thread.

No worries. Being Conservative today means having a thick skin (among other things).

 

[Bala Verde]

Just to reinforce the right spirit and attitude - oddly enough in the perhaps most antagonizing thread, many discussion have remained very civil - let's stay cordial and respectful in agreement and disagreement.

(Makes my life a lot easier )

Please, don't hesitate to apologize, and re-read your post before you submit it. You'll sometimes find that you really didn't want to say that, or say it in that way. Nuanced speech doesn't always translate well to short written messages.

The stage is yours again...

 

[Hugh Januss]

No worries. Being Conservative today means having a thick skin (among other things).

Head?..........

 

[buckwheat]

That was liberal fluff. Ideals will always sound better than practicality......

Your's is the party of "Conservative Christianity," an oxymoron if I've ever heard one. Was Jesus being "practical" when he fed the 5,000 with the 2 fish and the 5 loaves of bread?

again, someone will have to pay for this..

Thomas Paine covered this more than 200 years ago when he advocated progressive taxation and guaranteed minimum income.

I want everybody to have health insurance, I really do. I just don't want to pay for it. I'll pay for mine, you pay for yours.

Oh you rugged individualist! You've thrown out that Constitution you guys are always perverting. We the people. In order to form a more perfect Union. Jeez, even cycling is a team sport in many respects.

Provide, (that means you too) for the Common defence, promote the General Welfare ....... for ourselves and our posterity. Do ordain (holy document I guess) and establish this Constitution.

You go out and be an island bitter old man.

 

[ChrisE]

I really want everybody to have their bunker busting bombs and unmanned drones causing collateral damage around the world, I really do. I just don't want to pay for it. I'll pay for my cool things to blow stuff up, you pay for yours.

 

[usedtobefast]

Your's is the party of "Conservative Christianity," an oxymoron if I've ever heard one. Was Jesus being "practical" when he fed the 5,000 with the 2 fish and the 5 loaves of bread?



Thomas Paine covered this more than 200 years ago when he advocated progressive taxation and guaranteed minimum income.




Oh you rugged individualist! You've thrown out that Constitution you guys are always perverting. We the people. In order to form a more perfect Union. Jeez, even cycling is a team sport in many respects.

Provide, (that means you too) for the Common defence, promote the General Welfare ....... for ourselves and our posterity. Do ordain (holy document I guess) and establish this Constitution.

You go out and be an island bitter old man.

we can send him over to the mango thread. that will sweeten him up.

 

[BroDeal]

On second thought, I think you are correct. It's just so much easier to allow some elected official in some far off city do your thinking for you based on what's good for the collective. This is especially true when some nameless, faceless chap is forced to pay for it.

We have already seen the result of letting some accountant in a private company in a far off city do your thinking for you based on what is good for his company's bottom line instead of your health. This is especially true when some nameless, facelss chap is forced to die for the sake of insurance company profits.

Streamlined regulations will reduce costs because insurance companies won't have to design state specific policies.

Business's who provide insurance don't have much to choose from because of heavy regulation insurance companies are saddled with.

The old conservative battle cry: Less regulation and the world will magically be made better. Those reduced banking regulations sure worked out well.

 

[BroDeal]

I really want everybody to have their bunker busting bombs and unmanned drones causing collateral damage around the world, I really do. I just don't want to pay for it. I'll pay for my cool things to blow stuff up, you pay for yours.

You don't understand. Spending three trillion borrowed dollars to invade a couple of worthless patches of wasteland is a good. Raising and spending one trillion dollars helping the less fortunate Americans is bad. It is really pretty simple.

 

[Ripper]

You don't understand. Spending three trillion borrowed dollars to invade a couple of worthless patches of wasteland is a good. Raising and spending one trillion dollars helping the less fortunate Americans is bad. It is really pretty simple.

Well, either way, China owns you

 

[slowoldman]

Your's is the party of "Conservative Christianity," an oxymoron if I've ever heard one. Was Jesus being "practical" when he fed the 5,000 with the 2 fish and the 5 loaves of bread?

No He was being ideal.....and Divine. Paul did preach in his epistles that you were to get a job first before preaching the word, so people would listen to you and not think you were just mooching....sounds conservative to me...

Thomas Paine covered this more than 200 years ago when he advocated progressive taxation and guaranteed minimum income.

Well, we do have both of those. Thomas Paine never said anything about national healthcare though.

Oh you rugged individualist! You've thrown out that Constitution you guys are always perverting. We the people. In order to form a more perfect Union. Jeez, even cycling is a team sport in many respects.

Provide, (that means you too) for the Common defence, promote the General Welfare ....... for ourselves and our posterity. Do ordain (holy document I guess) and establish this Constitution.

You go out and be an island bitter old man.

Thank you, I do consider myself an individualist. Our taxes already do exactly that. I don't believe it says that we should be taxed to pay for people coming into this country ILLEGALLY. Which this will do.

To your surprise, I pay exorbitantly high insurance rates. I have a son that is currently on the lung/heart transplant list. He has been declined procedures and coverage before but I have done what it has taken to get him covered. Again, I will pay for mine, you pay for yours......

I really want everybody to have their bunker busting bombs and unmanned drones causing collateral damage around the world, I really do. I just don't want to pay for it. I'll pay for my cool things to blow stuff up, you pay for yours.

I will let buckwheat answer your clever little alteration. Read above in red....

 

[slowoldman]

we can send him over to the mango thread. that will sweeten him up.

Thanks, but I am allergic to mangoes..... (don't get any ideas....)

 

[usedtobefast]

That was liberal fluff. Ideals will always sound better than practicality.....again, someone will have to pay for this. I want everybody to have health insurance, I really do. I just don't want to pay for it. I'll pay for mine, you pay for yours.

ok bitterman. next time you or i get a Nobel prize in economics, we will drink
our beer in our own, undisclosed location. separate, but equal. except for some
minor details.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Krugman

 

[slowoldman]

ok bitterman. next time you or i get a Nobel prize in economics, we will drink
our beer in our own, undisclosed location. separate, but equal. except for some
minor details.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Krugman

I am willing to drink with anybody here......I am really not bitter at all, but you all can continue to think otherwise.....don't really get the separate but equal, if you knew me you would laugh at that too. I grew up in Rubidoux (very mixed community), had buddies of every color,creed and (gasp!) sexual orientation..... you all really don't know me.

 

[shawnrohrbach]

I have had private health insurance for the better part of thirty years. Through payroll deductions, I have paid over $60,000 into these "private" plans. In return, I have had a physical every three years to the total sum of $6,000 paid out by the insurance companies. I was feeling silly the other day and called my insurance company up and tried to make a deal. Could I get paid back the $54,000 I haven't used? I know, silly me. The agent explained that my contributions go toward a general fund, see, so the guy who is a total douche and weighs 75 lbs more than he should and the woman who smokes and drinks like a sailor, well their illnesses eat that $54,000 up right quick. He said this all with a big laugh. Now, my employers have paid more than I have over these three decades, and maybe that part goes to the $24,000,000 salary paid to the CEO of my insurance company, so my generous contributions can be used to pay for someone elses self inflicted illnesses and his salary is for collecting premiums for "private" insurance and cut people off when they really get sick. Socialism where someone else pays for their medical treatments, what? The interesting part of my job has been from time to time to protect the integrity and privacy of medical data. Wanna know who the most pernicious attackers are who try and get that data on millions of Americans? Yeah "private" insurance companies. Spying on Americans Citizens, what? If you don't like it, do what Rush Limbaugh promised to do if it passed; move to Costa Rica where there is ONLY government owned health insurance. Unless, of course, you're a vet retired down there, then the American government pays for your health insurance.

 

[Anonymous]

Your's is the party of "Conservative Christianity," an oxymoron if I've ever heard one. Was Jesus being "practical" when he fed the 5,000 with the 2 fish and the 5 loaves of bread?



Thomas Paine covered this more than 200 years ago when he advocated progressive taxation and guaranteed minimum income.




Oh you rugged individualist! You've thrown out that Constitution you guys are always perverting. We the people. In order to form a more perfect Union. Jeez, even cycling is a team sport in many respects.

Provide, (that means you too) for the Common defence, promote the General Welfare ....... for ourselves and our posterity. Do ordain (holy document I guess) and establish this Constitution.

You go out and be an island bitter old man.

You really have no concept of the word 'liberty'.

 

[usedtobefast]

I am willing to drink with anybody here......I am really not bitter at all, but you all can continue to think otherwise.....don't really get the separate but equal, if you knew me you would laugh at that too. I grew up in Rubidoux (very mixed community), had buddies of every color,creed and (gasp!) sexual orientation..... you all really don't know me.

i know Rubidoux. my family business was in Colton and i used train in that area
a lot. separate, but equal is not supposed to be allowed under the US Constitution. it was my attempt at humor.

 

[Anonymous]

We have already seen the result of letting some accountant in a private company in a far off city do your thinking for you based on what is good for his company's bottom line instead of your health. This is especially true when some nameless, facelss chap is forced to die for the sake of insurance company profits.



The old conservative battle cry: Less regulation and the world will magically be made better. Those reduced banking regulations sure worked out well.

You mean those banking regulation didn't work. Neither did those SEC reg's stop Madoff. Corruption exists even in the vaunted halls of Washington DC. But WTF... just let the govt handle it.

 

[BroDeal]

You really have no concept of the word 'liberty'.

Maybe he has no concept of the conservative definition of liberty, which is, "I get to do whatever I want without any responsibility or concern for what effect my actions will have on the rest of society." You know, the type of liberty that you find in Third World sh!tholes with no law and everything you have has to be protected with an AK-47. For some reason the conservatives are not big on moving to one of these Third World libertarian paradises. They are big on sending other people's sons to such places to fight and die, though.

 

[slowoldman]

i know Rubidoux. my family business was in Colton and i used train in that area
a lot. separate, but equal is not supposed to be allowed under the US Constitution. it was my attempt at humor.

gotcha, no worries, you're still invited for a beer.....

 

[Anonymous]

Well, it's clear you know little of the medical profession. You have any idea of what the average (wealthy??) doctor makes today as opposed to 25 years ago?

Talk about crying me a river.

BTW, loser pays means the team of lawyers representing the plaintiff are pretty damned sure there going to prevail or they don't bring the suit.

Well, its clear you know little of the legal profession. Maybe you watch too much law and order? Lawsuits are never about getting to the truth of the matter, and when million dollar legal teams face you and your one attorney because "loser pays" keeps you from having an effective case (cause see, when you face 4 lawyers each of whom has a paralegal or two to use, it is easy for them to run you raged with procedural motions, etc) that you just take the $1000 bucks for your kids arm and hope he can do well in the paralympics.

Effects of Loser Pays



http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/cjr_11.htm



But, we can't upset the trail lawyer or the campaign contributions will dry up. Corruption? Yup.

It is corrupt for trial lawyers to make campaign contributions. This coming from the party that wants unlimited money from corporations for their campaign. Did you not think of the irony of your statement before you made it?

Uh, yea, tort reform really drives down those premiums...http://www.delcotimes.com/articles/2009/01/11/opinion/doc4969649e298a2161605350.txt

 

[BroDeal]

You mean those banking regulation didn't work. Neither did those SEC reg's stop Madoff.

You mean the financial regulatons that Reagan's political children spent twenty five years rolling back and hobbling until the whole system collapsed in an avalanche of systemic risk? Those regulations? The ones that were put in place in the aftermath of the Great Depression but one by one eliminated by "free" market kooks who believe that no regulation at all is needed?

 

[Anonymous]

Had to laugh. Virtually everything he writes in this article is propaganda. Krugman even has to mis-quote Gingrich to make his "point."

Editors' Note:
This column quotes Newt Gingrich as saying that “Lyndon Johnson shattered the Democratic Party for 40 years” by passing civil rights legislation, a quotation that originally appeared in The Washington Post. After this column was published, The Post reported that Mr. Gingrich said his comment referred to Johnson’s Great Society policies, not to the 1964 Civil Rights Act.

Nice try. Just because Gingrich is in damage control does not mean he was quoted wrong. Just means that Gingrich tried to clarify after he opened his stupid mouth: http://voices.washingtonpost.com/44/2010/03/gingrich-like-lbj-obama-risks.html?wprss=44