World Politics

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

Are you black?

No, I'm Hungarian. Does that count?

 

[Anonymous]

I wonder when small biz is going to get a break from the banks. I have awesome credit, very little debt vs. income, tons of collateral, and I can't even get a 10k loan from my bank to invest into the carbon wing of my bike wheel company, which isn't much of a starting inventory for something like that. Is there some kind of freeze on small biz loans? I couldn't get a straight answer from my banker, just "no, not at this time, nobody's getting anything". Before the fiscally conservative Conservatives just about single-handedly killed our economy, a 10k loan to small biz was standard issue. What's going on?

Reg-U-lations.

Banks are so closely watched regarding cash reserves... even the banks that took TARP funds held the money to increase ratios so the FDIC would leave them alone. Banks have figured out they can make nearly as much money without lending... lending has significant risk and govt oversight. Not a great combination. It's a pretty good deal for the bankers. They pay you 75 basis points for your deposits and make 500 basis points on their investment portfolio AND keep federal regulators off their ass.

Conventional lending is dead, at least for the time being.

 

[ihavenolimbs]

Reg-U-lations.

Banks are so closely watched regarding cash reserves... even the banks that took TARP funds held the money to increase ratios so the FDIC would leave them alone. Banks have figured out they can make nearly as much money without lending... lending has significant risk and govt oversight. Not a great combination. It's a pretty good deal for the bankers. They pay you 75 basis points for your deposits and make 500 basis points on their investment portfolio AND keep federal regulators off their ass.

Conventional lending is dead, at least for the time being.

To you that may have seemed like a good theory, but I live in a whole other county, no FDIC, no TARP, no additional regulations, yet still no credit (unless you want to pay credit-card type interest-rates).

 

[rhubroma]

I wonder when small biz is going to get a break from the banks. I have awesome credit, very little debt vs. income, tons of collateral, and I can't even get a 10k loan from my bank to invest into the carbon wing of my bike wheel company, which isn't much of a starting inventory for something like that. Is there some kind of freeze on small biz loans? I couldn't get a straight answer from my banker, just "no, not at this time, nobody's getting anything". Before the fiscally conservative Conservatives just about single-handedly killed our economy, a 10k loan to small biz was standard issue. What's going on?

Of course you can't get a small business loan from the same banks who have so graciously refilled their coffers from all of our (unwilling) contributions, because that's capitalism. Your good and responsible behavior counts for nothing and, to the contrary, it would have been more advantagious for you to have behaved as unscrupulously and without compunction as the so called finacial gurus of Wall Street had you wanted to get ahead as they say.

It's the best system ever invented in which the colossal financial aparatus gets to comport itself however it deems fit: when there are gargantuan profits to be made, just as when it faces insovency. Irrespective of its ethical status or justice, it is the master of a game in which the rules are estabilshed by it and for it and is backed by a politcal class whose very existance depends upon it.

We only decieve ourselves in thinking we live in the so called democatic State, with its so called liberties, so called egalitarianism and so called prinicple of justice.

 

[Anonymous]

Of course you can't get a small business loan from the same banks who have so graciously refilled their coffers from all of our (unwilling) contributions, because that's capitalism. Your good and responsible behavior counts for nothing and, to the contrary, it would have been more advantagious for you to have behaved as unscrupulously and without compunction as the so called finacial gurus of Wall Street had you wanted to get ahead as they say.

It's the best system ever invented in which the colossal financial aparatus gets to comport itself however it deems fit: when there are gargantuan profits to be made, just as when it faces insovency. Irrespective of its ethical status or justice, it is the master of a game in which the rules are estabilshed by it and for it and is backed by a politcal class whose very existance depends upon it.

We only decieve ourselves in thinking we live in the so called democatic State, with its so called liberties, so called egalitarianism and so called prinicple of justice.

Wrong.

Very few banks took TARP money. The fed regulators are monitoring EVERY bank in the US weather they took TARP or not.

Banks are (largely) still private institutions and don't (yet) have to loan money to anybody. If banks can't see a way to be profitable by lending then exactly who's fault is that?

RDV4ROUBAIX wants to borrow money to put capital at risk. Probably looking for a return on his investment. Might even result in business growth and additional employment opportunities... We clearly can't have this. The govt ought to nationalize his company.

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

Well, it seems the only sure fire way for responsible people to borrow money these days is to get a home equity loan. I finished remodeling last year without borrowing a dime, now that I'm at a crossroads with my biz I have to do something. Really wanted to keep my personal assets out of the equation, but I have no choice.

Sucks that a few people at the top can totally screw it up for the rest of us. Something wrong with the system, and it doesn't matter who's leading the way, we're just trading off one train wreck for another. I say throw 'em all out on their asses!!! I'm actually starting to believe that this fake 'democracy' and the 'capitalist' system that supports it is one big pyramid scheme, just like the ones that flyer everybody's cars in college parking lots.

 

[buckwheat]

Sucks that a few people at the top can totally screw it up for the rest of us.

Apparently you didn't get the memo.

It's the blacks, (see how Obama is covering up and orchestrating?)

if not them, the Jews, (aren't they the guys who run the banks and Hollywood?)

Perhaps as Seinfeld suggested it's the Dentists. Mine had a photo of himself with GWB.

Off to the Teabaggers.

 

[fatandfast]

Things that are very clear while watching the Goldman hearings
Do we need some kind of banking reform? yes
Are the Goldman reps 1 to 20 million times more intelligent than anybody that is questioning them? yes
Are any of the questioning members of congress able to manage these guys in any way? no
If congress does a cycling investigation they will hone in on terms like"attack" and "dropped" "hitting the wall" . Why would you want to do this to another human?They have not a clue about the content and context of the questions they are asking.

 

[buckwheat]

Things that are very clear while watching the Goldman hearings
Do we need some kind of banking reform? yes
Are the Goldman reps 1 to 20 million times more intelligent than anybody that is questioning them? yes
Are any of the questioning members of congress able to manage these guys in any way? no
If congress does a cycling investigation they will hone in on terms like"attack" and "dropped" "hitting the wall" . Why would you want to do this to another human?They have not a clue about the content and context of the questions they are asking.

I haven't been watching so it may be as bad as you say.

Is is possible the interlocutors are being intentionally obtuse?

However, isn't there a huge conflict of interest?

Doesn't Wall St. contribute huge amounts of money to both parties.

 

[usedtobefast]

I haven't been watching so it may be as bad as you say.

Is is possible the interlocutors are being intentionally obtuse?

However, isn't there a huge conflict of interest?

Doesn't Wall St. contribute huge amounts of money to both parties.

i heard a lot of today's testimony and the folks from GS were not being clear with the response they gave. the old "baffle them with bullshi-t" idea.
i think Levin will torpedo these aholes.

 

[Anonymous]

To you that may have seemed like a good theory, but I live in a whole other county, no FDIC, no TARP, no additional regulations, yet still no credit (unless you want to pay credit-card type interest-rates).

It's not a theory, it's a market condition.

I could be wrong but I don't think RDV is trying to borrow money from a New Zealand bank. I don't know why the banking conditions there are what they are. It may very well be the banks there can make money without lending.

 

[fatandfast]

ihavenolimbs, I don't know if you are able to watch US TV, and even if you were able I am not sure this bank reform hearings in front of US politicians would be that interesting for you. One thing that keeps coming up over and over is how the availability of super easy credit made mostly Americans act like crackheads. Lots of banks outside the US have higher credit standards and higher cash reserves. Lots of the damage caused to other economies was from investors looking at the party and wanting to participate, even though they had listened to all the stories about crack.Non Americans thought they could take one hit and not get hooked. Feel lucky that AU and NZ both still have stable housing prices and stable banks. Part of these hearings has exposed that if the US adopts really strict standards that we will all be weaned off cheap credit too fast...cold turkey. Just like crack when you can't get it you freak out. We still need dealers only the government wants to check in on them from time to time. I can't wait to see the mag and newspaper cartoons of Blankfein. Have yourself a flat white and feel lucky.

 

[ChrisE]

http://www.aolnews.com/nation/artic...crowd-attacks-three-men-in-nazi-garb/19455732

I see ravens is out of the hospital after the beating he got at the LA white supremacy rally. He must have used up his quota in free hospital visits in LA, so decided to go fark with some people in Philly.

 

[Hugh Januss]

http://www.aolnews.com/nation/artic...crowd-attacks-three-men-in-nazi-garb/19455732

I see ravens is out of the hospital after the beating he got at the LA white supremacy rally. He must have used up his quota in free hospital visits in LA, so decided to go fark with some people in Philly.

The activities of both sides in these situations make me truly proud to be an American.

 

[Oncearunner8]

The activities of both sides in these situations make me truly proud to be an American.

"freedom isnt free,,,,,there is a heafty ****ing fee"

"America .......**** Yeah"

LMAO

name that movie!

 

[Hugh Januss]

"freedom isnt free,,,,,there is a heafty ****ing fee"

"America .......**** Yeah"

LMAO

name that movie!

This movie? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BN1jSpiyIM

 

[buckwheat]

Things that are very clear while watching the Goldman hearings
Do we need some kind of banking reform? yes
Are the Goldman reps 1 to 20 million times more intelligent than anybody that is questioning them? yes
Are any of the questioning members of congress able to manage these guys in any way? no
If congress does a cycling investigation they will hone in on terms like"attack" and "dropped" "hitting the wall" . Why would you want to do this to another human?They have not a clue about the content and context of the questions they are asking.

What a complete misrepresentation of what happened. I'll know not to trust anything you have to say from now on.

 

[buckwheat]

i heard a lot of today's testimony and the folks from GS were not being clear with the response they gave. the old "baffle them with bullshi-t" idea.
i think Levin will torpedo these aholes.

My conclusion is that usedtobefast is more "attentive" than fatandfast.

 

[rhubroma]

Wrong.

Very few banks took TARP money. The fed regulators are monitoring EVERY bank in the US weather they took TARP or not.

Banks are (largely) still private institutions and don't (yet) have to loan money to anybody. If banks can't see a way to be profitable by lending then exactly who's fault is that?

RDV4ROUBAIX wants to borrow money to put capital at risk. Probably looking for a return on his investment. Might even result in business growth and additional employment opportunities... We clearly can't have this. The govt ought to nationalize his company.

I'm aware that only some, not all, banks took tax payers money. Though it is today's menacing psychological factor that has contaminated the entire system that was caused by the near meltdown of the whole capitalist financial aparatus, for which a new stingyness and era of no-confidence has put a freeze on the "generosity" of the loan industry. This in conjunction with a neo-pragmatism and prudence on the part of all banks, who have now realized that far too many volks had been getting far too much cash than their paultry incomes could justify in terms of repayment. And this because in the Land of the American Dream to have, "to have" underlined, became right, not priviledge and the logic of being able to actually afford a bigger house was replaced by the logic (which wasn't at all logical) of creative financing that was driving the speculative construction boom for years.

So, no, I wasn't wrong; just speaking more-or-less metaphorically.

The private, so called, banks of which you speak in any case had followed the same logic of financial capitalism which is the current global economic culture as established by the giant market financeers and traders on a smaller scale. When the colossal financial lending institutions were on the brink of failure and the fed stepped in to bail them out with public funds, the natural consequence of this has been that all banks now have been made to follow the new logic of closing the drains. For this those few responsible for the dilema have been helped and, in some cases, even benefited; by contrast the masses without responsiblity have been made by the political class to be the providers of such help and benefits while simultaneously being penalized, not only in their increased taxes, but also in not being able to get those reasonable loans they need to survive.

Nice system.

 

[rhubroma]

Sucks that a few people at the top can totally screw it up for the rest of us.

That pretty much sums it up.

We need a revolution.

 

[fatandfast]

What a complete misrepresentation of what happened. I'll know not to trust anything you have to say from now on.

It's all probably available on video. You should pay special attention to the part where GS rep is asked what he thinks cash reserve standards will do to small banks. They both have a tone like when you put a dog to sleep. Most law makers from both sides of isle know that with tighter standards there will be little to no loan origination from small institutions. The chair of the investigation spent lots of time grilling everybody about taking public money. You should also pay close attention to the part where they continue to assert that " Goldman took 2.7 billion dollars of tax payer money!!" the calm Blankfien said yes and tried to explain that he was forced to take the money. He further explained that he had insurance and a private agreement with Warren Buffett. Bulldog Levin was having no part of it. Goldman Sachs was blamed for packaging of crap and other people buying it. You should also pay close attention to most panel members saying ever so quickly and quietly that selling short is OK from time to time. Lots of them even said they had done it before.The sad part of yesterdays circus will be that the airing of how out of control the US money supply is the new more conservative/sound standards will put the services that small banks can offer to maybe some car loans or kitchen improvement offerings. The huge banks with deep pockets will only get bigger. Goldman execs were asked "Is Goldman to big to fail?" The answer was no yesterday,if the bandaid is put on the financial system the answer will be yes next time.Crack or heroine are good comparisons to free money. All the politicians are blaming Goldman Sachs for handing it out and putting almost no blame on all the people waiting in line with a dump truck to get 1st and second mortgages with 10 dollar an hour jobs,no savings,and tons of credit card debt. None of it's their fault.If our government creates another FDIC group that actually runs the banks when they go on the rocks we are all in lots of trouble. It was discussed yesterday that thus far the FDIC takes the assets of failed banks and liquidates everything never really trying to manage anything. Just an auction house that pays all the depositors and then sell the desks and equipment.

 

[buckwheat]

You don't mention this part of the testimony;

The Goldman crowd was certainly cosmopolitan. Blankfein dropped a Latin phrase (Goldman had a “de minimis” business in direct home loan mortgages) and French peppered Senate Exhibit No. 62, from the petite, handsome Fabrice Tourre, the S.E.C. target who called himself “the fabulous Fab” in a 2007 e-mail.

“More and more leverage in the system, l’edifice entier risqué de s’effondrer a tout moment. ... Seul survivant potentiel,” gushed the highflying Frenchman charged with creating subprime mortgage investment deals intended to fail. That translates loosely to: the cheese stands alone.

Continuing to talk about himself in the third person, he wrote, “Standing in the middle of all these complex, highly levered, exotic trades he created without necessarily understanding all the implications of those monstruosities!!! Anyway, not feeling too guilty about this. ...”

In an e-mail to his girlfriend, he called his “Frankenstein” creation “a product of pure intellectual masturbation, the type of thing which you invent telling yourself: ‘Well, what if we created a “thing,” which has no purpose, which is absolutely conceptual and highly theoretical and which nobody knows how to price?’ ”

In another e-mail to her, he blithely joked that he was selling toxic bonds “to widows and orphans that I ran into at the airport.”

No it's not Goldman's fault, they made 13 Billion despite their de minimis business in direct home mortgages. They just repackaged the $hit in a way to rip people off.

The guy who made $10 an hour and has nowhere to live. Right, it's his fault.

 

[buckwheat]

or this;

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/28/business/28goldman.html?pagewanted=2&ref=business

Later, asked if he knew the housing market was doomed, Mr. Blankfein replied, “I think we’re not that smart.”

Mr. Blankfein was asked repeatedly whether Goldman sold securities that it also bet against, and whether Goldman treated those clients properly.

“You say betting against,” Mr. Blankfein said in a lengthy exchange. But he said the people who were coming to Goldman for risk in the housing market got just that: exposure to the housing market. “The unfortunate thing,” he said, “is that the housing market went south very quickly.”

Senator Levin pressed Mr. Blankfein again on whether his customers should know what Goldman workers think of deals they are selling, and Mr. Blankfein reiterated his position that sophisticated investors should be allowed to buy what they want.

Mr. Blankfein was also pressed on the deal at the center of the S.E.C. case. He said the investment was not meant to fail, as the S.E.C. claims, and in fact, that the deal was a success, in that it conveyed “risk that people wanted to have, and in a market that’s not a failure.”

To which Senator Jon Tester, Democrat of Montana, replied, “It’s like we’re speaking a different language here.”


Well Mr. Blankfein, was it a risk that you personally would want to have?

Congratulations to you sir, you have fatandfast selling your bs for you.

 

[fatandfast]

You don't mention this part of the testimony;

The Goldman crowd was certainly cosmopolitan. Blankfein dropped a Latin phrase (Goldman had a “de minimis” business in direct home loan mortgages) and French peppered Senate Exhibit No. 62, from the petite, handsome Fabrice Tourre, the S.E.C. target who called himself “the fabulous Fab” in a 2007 e-mail.

“More and more leverage in the system, l’edifice entier risqué de s’effondrer a tout moment. ... Seul survivant potentiel,” gushed the highflying Frenchman charged with creating subprime mortgage investment deals intended to fail. That translates loosely to: the cheese stands alone.

Continuing to talk about himself in the third person, he wrote, “Standing in the middle of all these complex, highly levered, exotic trades he created without necessarily understanding all the implications of those monstruosities!!! Anyway, not feeling too guilty about this. ...”

In an e-mail to his girlfriend, he called his “Frankenstein” creation “a product of pure intellectual masturbation, the type of thing which you invent telling yourself: ‘Well, what if we created a “thing,” which has no purpose, which is absolutely conceptual and highly theoretical and which nobody knows how to price?’ ”

In another e-mail to her, he blithely joked that he was selling toxic bonds “to widows and orphans that I ran into at the airport.”

No it's not Goldman's fault, they made 13 Billion despite their de minimis business in direct home mortgages. They just repackaged the $hit in a way to rip people off.

The guy who made $10 an hour and has nowhere to live. Right, it's his fault.

People making 10 dollars an hour are important. They make up a huge segment of the US population and economy. They have plenty of places to live..it often involves roommates. Single family homes with taxes and insurance and saving can not be maintained on this salary level but in only a few locations in the US. releasing private emails was the a subject that many people touched on during the performance yesterday. I am sure that if emails from lots of execs and politicians were made public the word masturbation would come up a few times. Your words not mine "loose translation" and I agree with you very loose. terms about old dogs and all things French are not easy to translate,2 different ways of speaking and writing. Many times they can never be translated. Most credit counseling experts have people who are out of control use cash, so they can have a visual representation of how much money they are actually spending. Often times numbers on paper are too abstract for the financially undereducated. The 400 dollar paycheck yield minus taxes, food, savings and expenses would have gleaned an ugly reality that maintaining a car and a house is impossible at this income level. Sitting down and applying for a home loan with debt and no savings(the 10 dollar guy I described) is best done with a magician. Now that the spell has worn off, home ownership for everybody at every income level is not available with the current magic levels . 1 thing that a couple of the politicians had the courage to say was that we pay them for oversight and they let us down at every level. I just hope the over adjustment doesn't cause any more contraction. I really thought this whole blame the French guy thing was gone when Bush left..I was wrong. If the French had helped us we would have won the war in Iraq also. You can be anything you want in America..just not a homeowner at 10 bucks an hour. How much money did Fortune 500 companies make ? Why is the profit they made so disturbing?

 

[Anonymous]

I'm aware that only some, not all, banks took tax payers money. Though it is today's menacing psychological factor that has contaminated the entire system that was caused by the near meltdown of the whole capitalist financial aparatus, for which a new stingyness and era of no-confidence has put a freeze on the "generosity" of the loan industry. This in conjunction with a neo-pragmatism and prudence on the part of all banks, who have now realized that far too many volks had been getting far too much cash than their paultry incomes could justify in terms of repayment. And this because in the Land of the American Dream to have, "to have" underlined, became right, not priviledge and the logic of being able to actually afford a bigger house was replaced by the logic (which wasn't at all logical) of creative financing that was driving the speculative construction boom for years.

So, no, I wasn't wrong; just speaking more-or-less metaphorically.

The private, so called, banks of which you speak in any case had followed the same logic of financial capitalism which is the current global economic culture as established by the giant market financeers and traders on a smaller scale. When the colossal financial lending institutions were on the brink of failure and the fed stepped in to bail them out with public funds, the natural consequence of this has been that all banks now have been made to follow the new logic of closing the drains. For this those few responsible for the dilema have been helped and, in some cases, even benefited; by contrast the masses without responsiblity have been made by the political class to be the providers of such help and benefits while simultaneously being penalized, not only in their increased taxes, but also in not being able to get those reasonable loans they need to survive.

Nice system.

You seem very conflicted. The banks are being forced to positions that make lending a risk from not only a repayment stance but a regulatory stance as well. Stingy? Hardly.

You criticize the banks for not making "reasonable loans" to those "without responsibility", yet if those banks post a profit (from the lending) you criticize the profiteering. Then of course if the banks post losses from their lending and take public money to buoy themselves then you criticize for that. You advocate regulations, then when they don't work your solution is more regulations. Then when those regulations have unintended consequences it becomes intelluctually lazy to just heep the blame on the institutions.

Then, of course, the natural progression for you is to blame the system, government, engage in the populist class warfare rhetoric, etc., etc.

I'm bored.