World Politics

[Anonymous]

Hitch, haven't you gotten it by now? In democracy simulation and appearances are what matters to a distracted populous. Why with all the work and consumtion to be done, who has time to take notice. And that's just how the politicians and plutocrats love it, and why they spend gobs of money to keep us distracted and misinformed.

For them it's money well spent.

Having said that the neocons didn't even provide false hope.

Spectacularly good post.

There... happy now?

 

[rhubroma]

Spectacularly good post.

There... happy now?

I'm almost proud of you.

 

[Anonymous]

I'm almost proud of you.

Don't get carried away. You'll hate yourself in the morning.

 

[Cobblestones]

Spectacularly good post.

There... happy now?

Scott, we agree. (for completely different reasons).


Back to Egypt and ElBaradei. Remember when he was vilified by the US government when he was head of the IAEA and tried to run a softer course with Iran? Rice said something like that the IAEA shouldn't be in the business of doing international diplomacy. He was also heavily criticized when he (rightfully) claimed that Saddam Hussein did not have weapons of mass destruction. Oh dear.

 

[rhubroma]

Scott, we agree. (for completely different reasons).


Back to Egypt and ElBaradei. Remember when he was vilified by the US government when he was head of the IAEA and tried to run a softer course with Iran? Rice said something like that the IAEA shouldn't be in the business of doing international diplomacy. He was also heavily criticized when he (rightfully) claimed that Saddam Hussein did not have weapons of mass destruction. Oh dear.

I admit, I'm totally in the dark as to why you agree for completely reasons.

Just kidding.

 

[Cobblestones]

Scott, we agree. (for completely different reasons).


Back to Egypt and ElBaradei. Remember when he was vilified by the US government when he was head of the IAEA and tried to run a softer course with Iran? Rice said something like that the IAEA shouldn't be in the business of doing international diplomacy. He was also heavily criticized when he (rightfully) claimed that Saddam Hussein did not have weapons of mass destruction. Oh dear.

[Learning from theHog how to properly quote yourself]

Great post Cobblestones, here is a supportive link.

 

[Anonymous]

[Learning from theHog how to properly quote yourself]

Great post Cobblestones, here is a supportive link.

Scott SoCal thinks quoting oneself is ludicrous.

 

[usedtobefast]

Scott SoCal thinks quoting oneself is ludicrous.

as i was saying the other day, "vote for me and more beer for everyone!"

 

[redtreviso]

oh well...hey it could be worse...It could say "made in Israel"

 

[redtreviso]

kind of thing the Bush and Cheney families aspire to...

""Hosni Mubarak has taken real estate, liquid cash, royal yachts, and has 40 billion in cash and assets hidden away in banks around the world for easy access namely in: Germany, United States, UK, Switzerland, Scotland, England, Dubai, Madrid and other countries. The Alaa Mubarak has properties both inside the country or in the United States major cities of Washington, LA and New York on the finest streets of the land.

His wife Mrs. Suzanne Mubarak and their two sons also are incredibly wealthy and the first lady has another 3-5 billion for her own personal use.
Mubarak’s wealth also has ties to large corporate US interests such as:
Marlboro, Hermes, Mcdonalds, Vodafone, Hyundai, Chili and other large corporations.

It is no surprise that the people of Egypt are starving, jobless and have been robbed of their countries wealth because President Mubarak and his greedy relatives have stolen all from his own country.""

 

[The Hitch]

Maybe US hasnt been so pro Mubarak after all

http://www.jpost.com/MiddleEast/Article.aspx?id=205706

 

[rhubroma]

Maybe US hasnt been so pro Mubarak after all

http://www.jpost.com/MiddleEast/Article.aspx?id=205706

This merely demonstrates how politics is a double edged sword.

And for every pro democratic movement the US "supported", it has undermined just as many attempts at realizing the popular will in places like South America and the Middle East, whenever the people's choice went contrary to its national interests. And this is the point. Most Americans willingly accept, or would were they informed, the realpolitik and lies of the State its policies act out because it serves the ragion di stato, notwithstanding the hypocrisy and moral dubiousness.

I harbor no illusions in expecting something other than what is just a deplorable, though quite natural patriotic reponse. But please, let's not pass onward now to the purely comical and ridiculous.

 

[Anonymous]

Well we sure will if the US State Department has anything to say about it.

I read an interesting article today by Mohamed El Baradei in which he questions the following: Hillary Clinton declares that the Egyptian government is "stable" and "commited to responding to the needs and intersts of the Egyptian people".

El Baradei: "I'm at once stupified and perplexed. What does she mean by 'stable'? Perhaps she is refering to 29 years of emergency resolutions by a president with 30 years of imperial power, with a parliament that's a joke, with a judicial system that is anything but independent and impartial? This is what is called 'stability'? Really? For he that asks himself in America why the United States doesn't enjoy even a modicum of credibility in the Middle East, this is precisely why".

Do you have a link?

 

[Anonymous]

This merely demonstrates how politics is a double edged sword.

And for every pro democratic movement the US "supported", it has undermined just as many attempts at realizing the popular will in places like South America and the Middle East, whenever the people's choice went contrary to its national interests. And this is the point. Most Americans willingly accept, or would were they informed, the realpolitik and lies of the State its policies act out because it serves the ragion di stato, notwithstanding the hypocrisy and moral dubiousness.

I harbor no illusions in expecting something other than what is just a deplorable, though quite natural patriotic reponse. But please, let's not pass onward now to the purely comical and ridiculous.

Please do explain how this is vastly different from the ragion di stato of China or Russia? Yes, we have committed atrocities throughout the world, and probably to a greater extent than most (though I would venture to say that eastern Europe and southeast Asia supply plenty of examples of just how devastating the "support" of Russia and China were for various governments there.)

You love to portray the US as the Great Satan, filled with clueless automaton minions bent purely on satisfying their most base instincts.

Its funny, both Republicans and Democrats were clamoring in the last couple of days for the top of the "we helped foster this uprising" hill. I wonder, if honestly assessed, just how much responsibility we hold for anything that is happening or happened. You seem to misconstrue the necessities of conducting foreign policy with the regime in Egypt with conspiratorial idea that we had our hand up Mubarak's a$$, playing the puppet master. No, I would suggest that the US is neither responsible for the perpetuation of his regime, nor this uprising. It is possible for things to happen in this world that do not involve our government having controlled anything.

 

[redtreviso]

Ive had to put up with 3 years of the bbc and the entire world media telling me that Obama is the messiah. Just by getting elected, going to change the world for the best. Hope for the world. Militias would put down their arms, and join obama in the age of unity etc etc. You may think im exagerating, and i am a bit. But only a bit. People still here walk around with huge "Obama Hope"/ "Change we can believe in" t shirts, convinced that he is benevolent, omniscient omnipotent, believing in the hype. A recent advert for sky news here has Obama saying "yes we can" as a man holding a child smiles.

Support for a clear dictatorship under his administration is to me proof that they lied.

Where is the change? where is peace. Where is "rise of the oceans will begin to stop and the world will begin to heal" that was promised.

For every one man with a child smiling in the advert there are thousands crying as Mubarakk continues a brutal dictatorship.

Change we can believe in would involve opposing such a state, especially at a time of weakness. Not supporting it.

Where is the change the world media promised.
I personaly want an apology from the world media for this.

Yes you are exaggerating more than a bit.. BBC is not unlike you and teabaggers..Bush who? Compensating for 8 years of ""bring it on sis boom bah"

Meanwhile...

 

[The Hitch]

Yes you are exaggerating more than a bit.. BBC is not unlike you and teabaggers..Bush who? Compensating for 8 years of ""bring it on sis boom bah"

Meanwhile...

Like most of your posts this doesnt make much sence. You start by talking about something you know nothing about - bbc coverage, change mid sentence to something about me and tea baggers, follow with some random, unexplained onomatopoeia and then a cartoon of Bush.

Written in your traditional child like fashion of course.

What this has to do with the very real phenomenon of Obama world hype i have no idea.

But upset that something other than Bush/Palin is being discussed, you make your point by posting the random bush cartoon anyway.

You really cant stand the idea that this thread is occasionaly used for something other than your obsession with Palin and Fox news.

 

[redtreviso]

Like most of your posts this doesnt make much sence. You start by talking about something you know nothing about - bbc coverage, change mid sentence to something about me and tea baggers, follow with some random, unexplained onomatopoeia and then a cartoon of Bush.

Written in your traditional child like fashion of course.

What this has to do with the very real phenomenon of Obama world hype i have no idea.

But upset that something other than Bush/Palin is being discussed, you make your point by posting the random bush cartoon anyway.

You really cant stand the idea that this thread is occasionaly used for something other than your obsession with Palin and Fox news.

I gladly lower the discourse down to your right wing level..
While I know people who turned to the bbc to TRY to get some non rw spun news, the bbc and the uk in general have fanboyed Bush like the fundamentalist crackpots in this country who think he is a religious figure.. I doubt that any Obama hope tshirts seen by you make up for that.

pffft

 

[The Hitch]

I gladly lower the discourse down to your right wing level..

the key to trolling. Always the same comments, the same methods. Ignore everything that is said. Never change the method.

 

[The Hitch]

Oh and btw there have been several great right wing thinkers and writers. Going from West to East, Thomas Hobbes, Immanuel Kant, Dostoyevski, Sun Tzu. You never fail to demonstrate your total ignorance of the world outside Fox news studios.

And going back to your appauling lack of variation or knowledge in posts, most of your posts are just repeats of stuff you have said before. In fact all of it is. Over the last hundred pages all your posts have just been the same. Often word for word. Over 100 pages of this thread i have seen, repeatidly, the breadth of your intellect.

In fact Plutarch famously wrote.

"when Alexander saw the breadth of his domain he wept for there were no more worlds to conquer"

I have now seen the breadth of redtrevisios intellect, and i weep as there is no more intellect left to see.

But as i anticipate the "Hitch is a Lance fanboy/ David Duke fanboy/ teabagger" line that ive seen so many times before, ill just place you on the ignore list instead.

So no matter how many times you call me a Lance fanboy from now on, i wont know about it

Good luck with the trolling red

 

[redtreviso]

Oh and btw there have been several great right wing thinkers and writers. Going from West to East, Thomas Hobbes, Immanuel Kant, Dostoyevski, Sun Tzu. You never fail to demonstrate your total ignorance of the world outside Fox news studios.

And going back to your appauling lack of variation or knowledge in posts, most of your posts are just repeats of stuff you have said before. In fact all of it is. Over the last hundred pages all your posts have just been the same. Often word for word. Over 100 pages of this thread i have seen, repeatidly, the breadth of your intellect.

In fact Plutarch famously wrote.

"when Alexander saw the breadth of his domain he wept for there were no more worlds to conquer"

I have now seen the breadth of redtrevisios intellect, and i weep as there is no more intellect left to see.

But as i anticipate the "Hitch is a Lance fanboy/ David Duke fanboy/ teabagger" line that ive seen so many times before, ill just place you on the ignore list instead.

So no matter how many times you call me a Lance fanboy from now on, i wont know about it

Good luck with the trolling red

But it is the Palins and Bushes and Cheneys and Bandars and Thatchers and Armstrongs that you promote as having viewpoints worth consideration, when the only consideration they deserve is ridicule. Here is the obnoxious view or here is the offensive view or the bigot view or the randite view etc..The world would be a better place if you just stfu.

 

[rhubroma]

Please do explain how this is vastly different from the ragion di stato of China or Russia? Yes, we have committed atrocities throughout the world, and probably to a greater extent than most (though I would venture to say that eastern Europe and southeast Asia supply plenty of examples of just how devastating the "support" of Russia and China were for various governments there.)

You love to portray the US as the Great Satan, filled with clueless automaton minions bent purely on satisfying their most base instincts.

Its funny, both Republicans and Democrats were clamoring in the last couple of days for the top of the "we helped foster this uprising" hill. I wonder, if honestly assessed, just how much responsibility we hold for anything that is happening or happened. You seem to misconstrue the necessities of conducting foreign policy with the regime in Egypt with conspiratorial idea that we had our hand up Mubarak's a$$, playing the puppet master. No, I would suggest that the US is neither responsible for the perpetuation of his regime, nor this uprising. It is possible for things to happen in this world that do not involve our government having controlled anything.

In fact it isn't.

I guess it's just my calling. Being American, you know, means that I expect more from my State than either China or Russia.

If I'm so hard on the US in stating things so baldly, it's because I'm responding merely to a patriotic duty. Given that the US likes to publicly portray itself as the beacon of modernity, enlightenment principles, democracy and that its way of life is to be taken as an example of such values, which are of course universal, unalienable, etc. etc., I would hope that its ragion di stato was, in practice, somewhat more consist with them. This might make me decidedly unpopular among my compatriots (and I have even experienced hatred, when it makes them unconfortable and slowly raises their ire, their neck vains all swollen and red). Though this is entirely their problem, not mine. And, unfortunately, TFF, there is a widespread ignornace in that land that is simply indecorous, as I can attest to both from my students and tourists I encounter. Again this is not my fault

It's a big calling (America's, of course, not mine) to which those other cases you cited do not aspire. It doesn't make their ragion di stato any less criminal at times, though it at least saves them from a certain "accountability". Whereas in light of the mission and considering what America has always self-claimed in terms of moral righteousness and given the actual power and force it has to condition global events, the US will per force be held much more accountable for itself before the eyes of the world.

Great power comes with great responsibility. All the more this great power is abused, all the more ferocious will be denouncements and criticism.

You know, it comes with the turf as they say.

I honestly wouldn't know if and how much responsibilty the US shares in Mubarak's power. Mrs. Clinton's confused statements, however, along with any ruling power in a land with the Suez Cannal, leads me to believe that America has at the very least had a vested interest in maintaining a "stability" that is convenient to its interests. And this is the conclusion that El Baradei has apparantly also made.

Have a nice day.

 

[Anonymous]

In fact it isn't.

I guess it's just my calling. Being American, you know, means that I expect more from my State than either China or Russia.

If I'm so hard on the US in stating things so baldly, it's because I'm responding merely to a patriotic duty. Given that the US likes to publicly portray itself as the beacon of modernity, enlightenment principles, democracy and that its way of life is to be taken as an example of such values, which are of course universal, unalienable, etc. etc., I would hope that its ragion di stato was, in practice, somewhat more consist with them. This might make me decidedly unpopular among my compatriots (and I have even experienced hatred, when it makes them unconfortable and slowly raises their ire, their neck vains all swollen and red). Though this is entirely their problem, not mine. And, unfortunately, TFF, there is a widespread ignornace in that land that is simply indecorous, as I can attest to both from my students and tourists I encounter. Again this is not my fault

It's a big calling (America's, of course, not mine) to which those other cases you cited do not aspire. It doesn't make their ragion di stato any less criminal at times, though it at least saves them from a certain "accountability". Whereas in light of the mission and considering what America has always self-claimed in terms of moral righteousness and given the actual power and force it has to condition global events, the US will per force be held much more accountable for itself before the eyes of the world.

Great power comes with great responsibility. All the more this great power is abused, all the more ferocious will be denouncements and criticism.

You know, it comes with the turf as they say.

I honestly wouldn't know if and how much responsibilty the US shares in Mubarak's power. Mrs. Clinton's confused statements, however, along with any ruling power in a land with the Suez Cannal, leads me to believe that America has at the very least had a vested interest in maintaining a "stability" that is convenient to its interests. And this is the conclusion that El Baradei has apparantly also made.

Have a nice day.

That's actually a fair assessment. Honestly, I do believe that sometimes, your detachment because of geography (you may very well visit the US frequently, so if my assumption is incorrect, please forgive me.), leads you to believe that there is little to know challenge to the simplicity that is the conservative message. I can assure you that in my life, I have many friends who are anything but ill-informed cousumerists.

But you are correct, with great power, there is a great responsibility. I also know that international diplomacy is more complicated an interaction than any domestic policy, and that because of our wealth and power, any interaction we have with any specific government will garner significant opposition. The fact is that much of the world would relish our destruction. I am not among them.

 

[redtreviso]

Confused statements? Just think.. John McCain would have died in his sleep last summer and President Palin would be telling the world that Israel better be ready to bomb Cairo when this Muslim Brotherhood take over of Egypt is complete..and get those construction crews ready to take down that dome thingy so Jesus can come..You betcha..

Hmmm Wonder what Pam Geller is up to...I hate to look

 

[rhubroma]

That's actually a fair assessment. Honestly, I do believe that sometimes, your detachment because of geography (you may very well visit the US frequently, so if my assumption is incorrect, please forgive me.), leads you to believe that there is little to know challenge to the simplicity that is the conservative message. I can assure you that in my life, I have many friends who are anything but ill-informed cousumerists.

But you are correct, with great power, there is a great responsibility. I also know that international diplomacy is more complicated an interaction than any domestic policy, and that because of our wealth and power, any interaction we have with any specific government will garner significant opposition. The fact is that much of the world would relish our destruction. I am not among them.

Oh, I think that's played up far too much. And this only serves a certain political agenda.

I'd like to think of my position as being in line with the great humanists, like that masterful manipulator of print Erasmus of Rotterdam (even if I only have about 5% of the great Renaissance scholar's wit and intelligence). I'd also like to think that this wouldn't change if I were Italian, French, Ethiopian or what ever. And I certainly have bore witness to like-minded Italians treating their state with no less caustic scrutiny.

I'd like to think this is what makes me someone from the left.

I'm also aware that not all Americans are ignorant consumerists, but we must constantly focus our attention on those that are if we are to live a critical existence, which is the only life worth living TFF.

 

[sublimit]

the key to trolling. Always the same comments, the same methods. Ignore everything that is said. Never change the method.

Sounds familiar huh? er like you?? .

I've seen enough of your posts to not take you particularly seriously but I realise other people do for reasons I've yet to understand, but you have respect other posters without resorting to this BS. You need to listen and show respect.

Just saying feller.