World Politics

[Anonymous]

The 30 yr old healthy, white , well employed, wink wink wink wink.=. Black pregnant, uninsured, hemorrhaging in childbirth at the county hospital.

So Blitzer's a racist now?

 

[rhubroma]

I'm with you 100% on this.

Many things about the USA make me feel sad, none more than it's avaricious so-called 'health' care system.

An older guy I know through work, about 75 now and retired, travels a lot. A couple of years ago he visited friends in the States. He met this guy through them who was missing two fingers. Said it was a boating accident. His friends recovered the severed digits, put them with ice in a bag and rushed him to emergency.

As he didn't have insurance - or rather the right kind or some such sophistry -The doc said it'll be five grand a finger, how much have you got?

He said he had just five grand. So, they sewed one back on and threw away the other two.

This is F.U.B.A.R.

It's what you get when you make docs swear to a pair of oaths to one god that doesn't exist (Apollo, the Hippocratic oath), and another that does (Mammon).

Repulsive and grotesque at once. How does, in any case, one put a price on sewing back on ones severed finger[s/I]? And does it matter which finger? Index $7,000, pinky $3000. Or could he have bargained down for a 3/4 - 1/4 deal, 3/4 index and 1/4 pinky? And keep everything within the $5000 budget?

I'm sure the hyer-rationalists would be able to come up with an answer, however disgusting.

 

[rhubroma]

Puke then.

We have had this argument several times. The only difference this time is that you are more vitriolic than the last. Wash, rinse, repeat.

You have one speed, one argument and it's boring.

And you one temperature, one emotion, one scent...and it is freezing, damp and icy.

 

[Anonymous]

Which is what happens when you let your wonderful, unfettered, unregulated, how-much-profit-is-there-to-be-made free market run health care!

Which is why the entire US health care system needs to be scrapped and made more equitable. I'm totally with Rhub on this (no surprise there). Sadly, this is likely to happen round about the same time that pigs start being able to fly.

You wrote that you have been a conservative your whole life - I always thought that 'young' and 'conservative' was an oxymoron.



This appalling, unbelievable story, simply reinforces the need to raze this totally f***ed up system to the ground and start from scratch.


Warning: do not view the following page in an altered state of consciousness!

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

Our heathcare system is the furthest thing from "free market" that you can imagine. Every detail is wrapped in regulation including profit.

I am intrigued. Let's say you scrapped US healthcare in favor of a "more equitable" system. What would that look like?

Yes, I began earning decent money at age 14 and have been questioning what happens with tax dollars ever since.

The story of the severed fingers sounds unbelievable because it is. That's not how our system works, but then that doen't fit the narrative around here so I'm quite sure I'll get blasted for not going along with the enlightened view... you know, govt is the only solution (and that the rich and private enterprise are revolting/evil or worse).

 

[Anonymous]

And you one temperature, one emotion, one scent...and it is freezing, damp and icy.

I thought I was the devil? Make up your mind.

 

[rhubroma]

I thought I was the devil? Make up your mind.

No he smells like sulfur, whereas your effluvient is more similar to digestion.

 

[Anonymous]

Repulsive and grotesque at once. How does, in any case, one put a price on sewing back on ones severed finger[s/I]? And does it matter which finger? Index $7,000, pinky $3000. Or could he have bargained down for a 3/4 - 1/4 deal, 3/4 index and 1/4 pinky? And keep everything within the $5000 budget?

I'm sure the hyer-rationalists would be able to come up with an answer, however disgusting.

Yes. It should be free. As everything should be.

Rhubroma's Utopia.

Funny thing, I have absolutely no interest in living there.

 

[Anonymous]

No he smells like sulfur, whereas your effluvient is more similar to digestion.

Maybe pre-digestion. Like fresh picked basil.

 

[Spare Tyre]

Our heathcare system is the furthest thing from "free market" that you can imagine. Every detail is wrapped in regulation including profit.

I am intrigued. Let's say you scrapped US healthcare in favor of a "more equitable" system. What would that look like?

(...)

One example is the Australian health system. Taxpayers pay a levy which funds subsidised health care for all citizens and some non-citizen residents. People on welfare are entitled to free treatment in some instances, or lower costs in others. Public hospitals will treat any emergencies and offer wait-listed treatments/surgeries for non-emergencies.

Alternatively, there is a "private" hospital system for people who can afford or choose to pay "private health insurance". This entitles them to select specialists of their choice, a more rapid access to surgery or expertise and a more comfortable/(possibly) higher quality of care in a private hospital. My insurer is a not-for-profit. Others are for-profit. "Not for profit" and "for profit" co-exist. See this link for Wikipedia's page on Australian health care.

Most people who can afford private health insurance also utilise the subsidised public system for some treatments or conditions.

One of the most loved and appreciated aspects of the Australian health system is the Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme, through which the Australian Government buys pharmaceuticals in bulk so they can be priced more cheaply at the retail level. Pensioners and those on very low incomes get an additional reduction. ..... We will have to fight to save this scheme because now that we have an FTA with the good ole US of A, Australia is under enormous pressure to jettison the scheme so that US pharmaceutical companies might enjoy the benefits of "free trade".

 

[Anonymous]

Meanwhile, more evidence that Obama is a one term(er).

Twin defeats spark Democratic fears

Weprin lost Weiner's seat by 8% in a district where Democrats outnumber Republicans 3 to 1.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0911/63466.html

Even before the polls closed, the recriminations – something short of panic, and considerably more than mere grumbling – had begun. On a high-level campaign conference call Tuesday afternoon, Democratic donors and strategists commiserated over their disappointment in Obama. A source on the call described the mood as “awful.”

“People feel betrayed, disappointed, furious, disgusted, hopeless,” said the source.

A senior Hill Democratic aide was more direct in attempting to explain the New York loss: “The approval ratings for the guy at the other end of Pennsylvania Avenue cratered.”

A Turner consultant, Steve Goldberg, validated that assessment: “It was all Obama — not even a thought of anything else.”

It was a nightmare scenario for Democrats that threatens to repeat itself on the national level, as major unions turn away from their traditional level of engagement. AFL-CIO leaders have talked about focusing their spending on state-level races. The giant SEIU has discussed replacing what had been an all-out campaign for Obama in 2008 with a campaign more focused on the issue of jobs.

And labor union leaders in Washington watched with frustration as a heavily Democratic, pro-union, blue-collar district slipped away.

 

[Stingray34]

Yes. It should be free. As everything should be.

Rhubroma's Utopia.

Funny thing, I have absolutely no interest in living there.

Big surprise. You know the cost of everything and the value of nothing.

 

[Anonymous]

Big surprise. You know the cost of everything and the value of nothing.

Wow. That's deep.

Rhubroma has a parrot.

 

[Stingray34]

And you one temperature, one emotion, one scent...and it is freezing, damp and icy.

Scott is a typical idealogue; everything fits together in an idealised, but patently error-prone, system. A type of anti-state fetishism.

Health care is only expensive because the underserving poor refuse to pay their way.

The poor only exist because there's too much big-government that's stifling free-trade.

Fairness is secondary to opportunity.

The huge rewards to executives are an inducement for men of such talent; without them, there's no motivation to get off one's arse.

And on and on...

He's seduced by a b'stardised version of Smith's, 'The Wealth of Nations,' the same man who wrote extensively on moral sentiments that's anathema to what's claimed in his name today.

It's also patently self-congratulatory: I'm a self-made man, if you can't do it, it's because you don't have any talent or grit. There is no such thing as life-crushing disappointments in Scott's world.

He's the John Wayne of brewers, hair-piece and all.

But whatever: God made him this way. The worldviews of all of us are fixed.

 

[Stingray34]

Wow. That's deep.

Rhubroma has a parrot.

Polly want a cracker *Squawk

 

[Stingray34]

Meanwhile, more evidence that Obama is a one term(er).

So, who you gonna be rooting for? Palin, Bachmann...or some other nut?

 

[Anonymous]

Scott is a typical idealogue; everything fits together in an idealised, but patently error-prone, system.

Health care is only expensive because the underserving poor refuse to pay their way.

The poor only exist because there's too much big-government that's stifling free-trade.

Fairness is secondary to opportunity.

The huge rewards to executives are an inducement for men of such talent; without them, there's no motivation to get off one's arse.

And on and on...

He's seduced by a b'stardised version of Smith's, 'The Wealth of Nations,' the same man who wrote extensively on moral sentiments that's anathema to what's claimed in his name today.

It's also patently self-congratulatory: I'm a self-made man, if you can't do it, it's because you don't have any talent or grit. There is no such thing as life-crushing disappointments in Scott's world.

He's the John Wayne of brewers, hair-piece and all.

But whatever: God made him this way. The worldviews of all of us are fixed.

Like so many others on this thread you've read three posts of mine and think you know me.

Health care is only expensive because the underserving poor refuse to pay their way.

No. I have never said this was the only reason.

The poor only exist because there's too much big-government that's stifling free-trade.

No. I have never said this. There have been poor since the beginning. Every system in every nation has had a poor segment.

Fairness is secondary to opportunity.

No. I have never said this. In fact, my number one problem with our system is the rampant corruption on both the public and private side, which completely skewers fairness. There's nothing fair about corruption.

The huge rewards to executives are an inducement for men of such talent; without them, there's no motivation to get off one's arse.

Private companies? Really? We need the government now to tell private companies how to compensate correctly?

It's also patently self-congratulatory: I'm a self-made man, if you can't do it, it's because you don't have any talent or grit. There is no such thing as life-crushing disappointments in Scott's world.

Really? You have no idea how many times I have failed. Business, divorce, career...

You are just another arrogant liberal who thinks they know something when in fact you have no idea WTF you are talking about.

But you'll get a lot of support here, that much is sure.

 

[Anonymous]

So, who you gonna be rooting for? Palin, Bachmann...or some other nut?

Rubio. But he's not running.

or some other nut?

Condescend much? How is it you know everything?

Maybe you should run for office. Just think, you can set us all straight.

 

[Stingray34]

Like so many others on this thread you've read three posts of mine and think you know me.

No one likes being fixed in a formulated phrase.

No. I have never said this was the only reason.

Really? What about this:

That is one of the many reasons why healthcare is so effing expensive. Those that can pay, pay for those that can't (or won't).

No. I have never said this. There have been poor since the beginning. Every system in every nation has had a poor segment.

But...

Just more evidence of how important a vibrant economy is.

Private companies? Really? We need the government now to tell private companies how to compensate correctly?

There's nowhere in my statement that says the government needs to fix such things. Another straw man on your behalf and betrays the degree of your anti-state fetishism: everything bad comes down to how evil 'big government' is. I think a sense of proportion would dictate what's fair compensation.

Really? You have no idea how many times I have failed. Business, divorce, career...

What do you think of those people with no strength, or resources, to start again?

You are just another arrogant liberal who thinks they know something when in fact you have no idea WTF you are talking about.

I could start complaining that you don't know me, but that would sound too much like your style. Am I the only arrogant party to this conversation?

But you'll get a lot of support here, that much is sure.

It's not a popularity contest. I take no real comfort in numbers. I've always admired people who say unpopular things they believe in. In a strange way, I admire you a little too; because we're obviously very different.

The story of the severed fingers sounds unbelievable because it is. That's not how our system works, but then that doen't fit the narrative around here so I'm quite sure I'll get blasted for not going along with the enlightened view... you know, govt is the only solution (and that the rich and private enterprise are revolting/evil or worse).

So, either my friend or I am a liar? Or does it just not fit your narrative? I don't know if private enterprise is evil or not, but the evidence suggests it's not very good at delivering the riches to society it promises.
__________________

 

[Anonymous]

No one likes being fixed in a formulated phrase.





Really? What about this:






But...




There's nowhere in my statement that says the government needs to fix such things. Another straw man on your behalf and betrays the degree of your anti-state fetishism: everything bad comes down to how evil 'big government' is. I think a sense of proportion would dictate what's fair compensation.



What do you think of those people with no strength, or resources, to start again?

I could start complaining that you don't know me, but that would sound too much like your style. Am I the only arrogant party to this conversation?

It's not a popularity contest. I take no real comfort in numbers. I've always admired people who say unpopular things they believe in. In a strange way, I admire you a little too; because we're obviously very different.

So, either my friend or I am a liar? Or does it just not fit your narrative? I don't know if private enterprise is evil or not, but the evidence suggests it's not very good at delivering the riches to society it promises.
__________________

Here is what I wrote;

That is one of the many reasons why healthcare is so effing expensive. Those that can pay, pay for those that can't (or won't).

I highlighted the key word you missed.

There's nowhere in my statement that says the government needs to fix such things.

But your inference is clear.

What do you think of those people with no strength, or resources, to start again?

I have never, ever had a problem with helping people in need with either a hand or a hand up. Ever. However, I do not appreciated being gamed as I suspect this might be something we can agree upon.

A vibrant economy is the key. All things public eminate from all things private. I stand by that.

I could start complaining that you don't know me, but that would sound too much like your style. Am I the only arrogant party to this conversation?

You attacked me with the generalisms. I responded. That's how it goes.

It's not a popularity contest. I take no real comfort in numbers. I've always admired people who say unpopular things they believe in. In a strange way, I admire you a little too; because we're obviously very different.

I think I'm right. You think you are right. We are probably both wrong. The thing is (my perception) my side and your side can't discuss politics in a civil way anymore.

So, either my friend or I am a liar? Or does it just not fit your narrative? I don't know if private enterprise is evil or not, but the evidence suggests it's not very good at delivering the riches to society it promises.

I'm not calling you a liar but I'm not buying the story you were told. Sorry.

Private Enterprise? Show me a better way and I'm in. 100%. But please don't go the way of theory and if you point to Norway and Sweden then tell me how a system like thiers (highly socialized, highly taxed, small population, big energy resources) works in the USA?

 

[redtreviso]

A vibrant economy is the key.

We had that once.. but your kind wanted a deeee arrrrr youuuuuuu ennnnnnn----- to take over..

Those were the days..

 

[Stingray34]

Here is what I wrote;



I highlighted the key word you missed.



But your inference is clear.



I have never, ever had a problem with helping people in need with either a hand or a hand up. Ever. However, I do not appreciated being gamed as I suspect this might be something we can agree upon.

A vibrant economy is the key. All things public eminate from all things private. I stand by that.



You attacked me with the generalisms. I responded. That's how it goes.



I think I'm right. You think you are right. We are probably both wrong. The thing is (my perception) my side and your side can't discuss politics in a civil way anymore.



I'm not calling you a liar but I'm not buying the story you were told. Sorry.

Private Enterprise? Show me a better way and I'm in. 100%. But please don't go the way of theory and if you point to Norway and Sweden then tell me how a system like thiers (highly socialized, highly taxed, small population, big energy resources) works in the USA?

Your country had a vibrant economy. The govt of the day even deregulated it further to make it even more vibrant. But look what happened. Oh wait, I know: the govt didn't go far enough...it was those Dems, after all.

So I missed your keyword? Still, I think "your inference is clear." Again, I in no way infered the govt needs to fix salaries for executives. My keyword: proportion.

So, if my friend or I aren't liars, we must be fools, then? That inference is clear.

But you can't believe a better system can be out there because "All things public emanate from all things private." You stand by that. Even if I could demonstrate a better system, you wouldn't accept it. In a philosophical sense, you're may actually right about private goods preceding public goods, if thinkers like Rousseau are to be believed: before someone first claimed to owning anything, there was no society, but a so-called 'state of nature.'

Enmity reciprocated is enmity increased, but you're not to blame because you were just responding to my obvious, wanton slander, I get it. I remember this from school: but he did it first! Now, if only me and my kind could come to the party and discuss things civily...

 

[redtreviso]

would you really want to hear the gibberish from this 25 years later????

or ever?

 

[Stingray34]

Is he saying: I should be strung up in irons?

 

[Anonymous]

We had that once.. but your kind wanted a deeee arrrrr youuuuuuu ennnnnnn----- to take over..

Those were the days..

If Bubba were to run I'd vote for him.

 

[Anonymous]

Your country had a vibrant economy. The govt of the day even deregulated it further to make it even more vibrant. But look what happened. Oh wait, I know: the govt didn't go far enough...it was those Dems, after all.

So I missed your keyword? Still, I think "your inference is clear." Again, I in no way infered the govt needs to fix salaries for executives. My keyword: proportion.

So, if my friend or I aren't liars, we must be fools, then? That inference is clear.

But you can't believe a better system can be out there because "All things public emanate from all things private." You stand by that. Even if I could demonstrate a better system, you wouldn't accept it. In a philosophical sense, you're may actually right about private goods preceding public goods, if thinkers like Rousseau are to be believed: before someone first claimed to owning anything, there was no society, but a so-called 'state of nature.'

Enmity reciprocated is enmity increased, but you're not to blame because you were just responding to my obvious, wanton slander, I get it. I remember this from school: but he did it first! Now, if only me and my kind could come to the party and discuss things civily...

Our country will have a vibrant economy again.

proportion.

And whom shall set a standard for exec compensation that's in "proportion"? You?

So, if my friend or I aren't liars, we must be fools, then? That inference is clear.

I don't believe the story as it was told to you. I don't think you are a fool. I don't believe the story as it was told to you.

Even if I could demonstrate a better system, you wouldn't accept it.

Try me. I'm probably more open minded than you think.

Enmity reciprocated is enmity increased, but you're not to blame because you were just responding to my obvious, wanton slander, I get it. I remember this from school: but he did it first! Now, if only me and my kind could come to the party and discuss things civily.

Okay. Say whatever you want to me and I will not respond. It's hard to have a dialogue that way but I suspect you never wanted one.