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Jul 4, 2009
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Scott SoCal said:
Wrong again. AP leans left which leads me to believe this may be the new target.

I'm so very glad we are friends.

...so what, in the USSR, Pravda was considered a centrist publication....the US has this very skewed political spectrum where the baseline is right of Attila the Hun and its all downhill ( read right-wing ) from there...in the real world AP would be considered an official organ of the powers that be which are very very right wing...

...in Canada, for instance the Progressive Conservative party ( which is the bastion of rightist thinking here ) was, until very recently, left of the US Democratic Party...and that was as loony toons as we got...we also had this weird political hybrid called a red tory which was something you guys would probably call a rabid communist ( and the governments they formed here, mostly on the provincial level, were some of the successful governments Canada ever had ) ...and in a recent poll to find our most popular politician we had a winner who was a former preacher who became the leader of our leading socialist party ( was the big push behind our healthcare system among other things )...

...and this political system produced a pretty nice country...a banking system that works, low crime rates, medicare, infrastructure that isn't teetering on implosion ( though there is the occasional Quebec exception )....all courtesy of a system that starts at your left wingyest and then goes long...you should try it on for size you might even like it...

Cheers

blutto
 
Jul 16, 2011
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rhubroma said:
There are plenty of satirists who have poked fun at Christ, or Moses, in the spirit of irony and to cause reflection, without the dreadful consequences.

rhubroma said:
Hence as controversial and indecorous as the French daily's satirical gesture may have been, above all in a moment like this, I'd rather live in a society in which such acts, while understood as a provocation, don't result in attempted mass murder, than one in which they would find a legal justification, or alibi, in sacred writ and religious law.

As I have previously stated, it is, as you say, unacceptable to reply to words with violence.

One problem is that a Westerner poking fun at Christ or Moses in the Western press is seen as being an inheritor of Western culture with its roots in Greek philosophy, Christianity and the enlightenment. On the other hand, satire of Islamic beliefs by Westerners will be seen by many Muslims as an attack from an alien culture.

Humour often dehumanises the target in the eyes of the teller and/or recipients and this is certainly more likely to be the case if the teller is from a different culture to who is being joked about. This should be taken in into account when using humour as a tool.

In the "battle" of ideals, the openness and diversity of Western culture can in many cases be a strength and many cases a weakness. A strength in promoting the freedom of individuals, but a weakness as it is difficult to put forward a unified vision of what Western culture stands for.

In addition, we should understand that some things that we see as being a negative of the Islamic way of life, may be seen in a completely different light in the Muslim world. For example, while we see the secondary role of women in Islam as being demeaning, many Muslims look at the treatment of women as sex objects in the Western world as demeaning. Much of the media (especially in the UK and Ireland) both strengthen this impression and these media are at the same time often seen as the source of attacks on the Islamic world.

The ideals of the enlightentment, freedom and tolerance would be best propagated by presenting a positive image of them. In this way, these ideals have taken a deep hold in "Christendom". In the same way they will take hold in other cultures, but it will be a long battle.
 
Jul 4, 2009
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Glenn_Wilson said:
Not really as there is a very large number of people who with the exact same beliefs as Scott's.
Not so hard to understand really when someone has a different opinion and is passionate about it than that is what commonly referred to as a “different opinion from a different political party”.
That is the exact reason why we vote.

...never actually could figure out why you vote because it always looks like a vote for either Twiddle-dee and Twittle-dum...just two sides of a very thin dime...and as SoCal so correctly points out both are as corrupt as the day is long ( and ironically corrupted by basically the same puppet-masters )...

Cheers

blutto
 
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Anonymous

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blutto said:
...so what, in the USSR, Pravda was considered a centrist publication....the US has this very skewed political spectrum where the baseline is right of Attila the Hun and its all downhill ( read right-wing ) from there...in the real world AP would be considered an official organ of the powers that be which are very very right wing...

...in Canada, for instance the Progressive Conservative party ( which is the bastion of rightist thinking here ) was, until very recently, left of the US Democratic Party...and that was as loony toons as we got...we also had this weird political hybrid called a red tory which was something you guys would probably call a rabid communist ( and the governments they formed here, mostly on the provincial level, were some of the successful governments Canada ever had ) ...and in a recent poll to find our most popular politician we had a winner who was a former preacher who became the leader of our leading socialist party ( was the big push behind our healthcare system among other things )...

...and this political system produced a pretty nice country...a banking system that works, low crime rates, medicare, infrastructure that isn't teetering on implosion ( though there is the occasional Quebec exception )....all courtesy of a system that starts at your left wingyest and then goes long...you should try it on for size you might even like it...

Cheers

blutto

in the real world AP would be considered an official organ of the powers that be which are very very right wing...

This isn't the real world this is the USA. It's just a guess, but I think the AP has tipped their next target. Probably something to do with SS and Medicare cuts except for those above the poverty line.

Again, I'm guessing here... but if you see some on the left in this country talking about how the elderly can "afford" fewer benefits just remember you heard it here first.
 
Jul 4, 2009
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...while not possessing the gravitas of some commentators here is an interesting read that may offer an insight into how the Greek economess could be dealt with...sorry about the length but an edit would have invariably left out something important/interesting...

Posted on November 7, 2011 by WashingtonsBlog



What Iceland Teaches Us: “Let Banks Fail”

Agence France-Presse notes:



Three years after Iceland’s banks collapsed and the country teetered on the brink, its economy is recovering, proof that governments should let failing lenders go bust and protect taxpayers, analysts say.

***

“The lesson that could be learned from Iceland’s way of handling its crisis is that it is important to shield taxpayers and government finances from bearing the cost of a financial crisis to the extent possible,” Islandsbanki analyst Jon Bjarki Bentsson told AFP.

“Even if our way of dealing with the crisis was not by choice but due to the inability of the government to support the banks back in 2008 due to their size relative to the economy, this has turned out relatively well for us,” Bentsson said.

***

Nobel Prize-winning US economist Paul Krugman echoed Bentsson.

“Where everyone else bailed out the bankers and made the public pay the price, Iceland let the banks go bust and actually expanded its social safety net,” he wrote in a recent commentary in the New York Times.

“Where everyone else was fixated on trying to placate international investors, Iceland imposed temporary controls on the movement of capital to give itself room to maneuver,” he said.

During a visit to Reykjavik last week, Krugman also said Iceland has the krona to thank for its recovery, warning against the notion that adopting the euro can protect against economic imbalances.

***

Iceland’s former prime minister Geir Haarde, in power during the 2008 meltdown and currently facing trial over his handling of the crisis, has insisted his government did the right thing early on by letting the banks fail and making creditors carry the losses.

“We saved the country from going bankrupt,” Haarde, 68, told AFP in an interview in July.

As I noted last week:


Iceland told the banks to pound sand. And Iceland’s economy is doing much better than virtually all of the countries which have let the banks push them around.

Barry Ritholtz noted in May:


Rather than bailout the banks — Iceland could not have done so even if they wanted to — they guaranteed deposits (the way our FDIC does), and let the normal capitalistic process of failure run its course.

They are now much much better for it than the countries like the US and Ireland who did not.

Bloomberg pointed out in February:


Unlike other nations, including the U.S. and Ireland, which injected billions of dollars of capital into their financial institutions to keep them afloat, Iceland placed its biggest lenders in receivership. It chose not to protect creditors of the country’s banks, whose assets had ballooned to $209 billion, 11 times gross domestic product.

***

“Iceland did the right thing by making sure its payment systems continued to function while creditors, not the taxpayers, shouldered the losses of banks,” says Nobel laureate Joseph Stiglitz, an economics professor at Columbia University in New York. “Ireland’s done all the wrong things, on the other hand. That’s probably the worst model.”

Ireland guaranteed all the liabilities of its banks when they ran into trouble and has been injecting capital — 46 billion euros ($64 billion) so far — to prop them up. That brought the country to the brink of ruin, forcing it to accept a rescue package from the European Union in December.

***

Countries with larger banking systems can follow Iceland’s example, says Adriaan van der Knaap, a managing director at UBS AG.

“It wouldn’t upset the financial system,” says Van der Knaap, who has advised Iceland’s bank resolution committees.

***

Arni Pall Arnason, 44, Iceland’s minister of economic affairs, says the decision to make debt holders share the pain saved the country’s future.

“If we’d guaranteed all the banks’ liabilities, we’d be in the same situation as Ireland,” says Arnason, whose Social Democratic Alliance was a junior coalition partner in the Haarde government.

***

“In the beginning, banks and other financial institutions in Europe were telling us, ‘Never again will we lend to you,’” Einarsdottir says. “Then it was 10 years, then 5. Now they say they might soon be ready to lend again.”

Even the IMF praises Iceland’s strategy:


As the first country to experience the full force of the global economic crisis, Iceland is now held up as an example by some of how to overcome deep economic dislocation without undoing the social fabric.



While the conditions in Iceland are in many ways different from the conditions in the U.S., Iceland’s lesson applies to America, as well.

Specifically, a study of 124 banking crises by the International Monetary Fund found that propping banks which are only pretending to be solvent hurts the economy:



Existing empirical research has shown that providing assistance to banks and their borrowers can be counterproductive, resulting in increased losses to banks, which often abuse forbearance to take unproductive risks at government expense. The typical result of forbearance is a deeper hole in the net worth of banks, crippling tax burdens to finance bank bailouts, and even more severe credit supply contraction and economic decline than would have occurred in the absence of forbearance.

Cross-country analysis to date also shows that accommodative policy measures (such as substantial liquidity support, explicit government guarantee on financial institutions’ liabilities and forbearance from prudential regulations) tend to be fiscally costly and that these particular policies do not necessarily accelerate the speed of economic recovery.

***


All too often, central banks privilege stability over cost in the heat of the containment phase: if so, they may too liberally extend loans to an illiquid bank which is almost certain to prove insolvent anyway. Also, closure of a nonviable bank is often delayed for too long, even when there are clear signs of insolvency (Lindgren, 2003). Since bank closures face many obstacles, there is a tendency to rely instead on blanket government guarantees which, if the government’s fiscal and political position makes them credible, can work albeit at the cost of placing the burden on the budget, typically squeezing future provision of needed public services.

Indeed, numerous Nobel prize winning and otherwise highly-regarded American economists say that our economy cannot recover until the big banks are broken up.

If the politicians are too corrupt to break up the big banks (because the banks have literally bought the politicians

Cheers

blutto
 
Tank Engine said:
As I have previously stated, it is, as you say, unacceptable to reply to words with violence.

One problem is that a Westerner poking fun at Christ or Moses in the Western press is seen as being an inheritor of Western culture with its roots in Greek philosophy, Christianity and the enlightenment. On the other hand, satire of Islamic beliefs by Westerners will be seen by many Muslims as an attack from an alien culture.

Humour often dehumanises the target in the eyes of the teller and/or recipients and this is certainly more likely to be the case if the teller is from a different culture to who is being joked about. This should be taken in into account when using humour as a tool.

In the "battle" of ideals, the openness and diversity of Western culture can in many cases be a strength and many cases a weakness. A strength in promoting the freedom of individuals, but a weakness as it is difficult to put forward a unified vision of what Western culture stands for.

In addition, we should understand that some things that we see as being a negative of the Islamic way of life, may be seen in a completely different light in the Muslim world. For example, while we see the secondary role of women in Islam as being demeaning, many Muslims look at the treatment of women as sex objects in the Western world as demeaning. Much of the media (especially in the UK and Ireland) both strengthen this impression and these media are at the same time often seen as the source of attacks on the Islamic world.

The ideals of the enlightentment, freedom and tolerance would be best propagated by presenting a positive image of them. In this way, these ideals have taken a deep hold in "Christendom". In the same way they will take hold in other cultures, but it will be a long battle.

I undrestand your points, that is, that part about living successfully in a pluralistic society meaning delicately finding a balance between accountability and appeasment.

But how much appeasement becomes a hinderence to accountability? While its true that being open to diversity is a fundamental value of modern democracy, how much openness, in terms of tolerance, is acceptable?

The battle is indeed on and the outcome, today, for this very issue under debate, seems rather uncetain. I only know, for what it's worth, where I stand on these issues.

In the meantime the religious fanatics continue to pose the greatest threat to the State of liberty and rights.

It seems to me that the West will arrive at a unified vision of values and principles, only when it resolves the rebus of the inherent contradictions which make it up. Until then, uncertainty.
 
Jul 4, 2011
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Tank Engine said:
As I have previously stated, it is, as you say, unacceptable to reply to words with violence.

One problem is that a Westerner poking fun at Christ or Moses in the Western press is seen as being an inheritor of Western culture with its roots in Greek philosophy, Christianity and the enlightenment. On the other hand, satire of Islamic beliefs by Westerners will be seen by many Muslims as an attack from an alien culture.

Humour often dehumanises the target in the eyes of the teller and/or recipients and this is certainly more likely to be the case if the teller is from a different culture to who is being joked about. This should be taken in into account when using humour as a tool.

In the "battle" of ideals, the openness and diversity of Western culture can in many cases be a strength and many cases a weakness. A strength in promoting the freedom of individuals, but a weakness as it is difficult to put forward a unified vision of what Western culture stands for.

In addition, we should understand that some things that we see as being a negative of the Islamic way of life, may be seen in a completely different light in the Muslim world. For example, while we see the secondary role of women in Islam as being demeaning, many Muslims look at the treatment of women as sex objects in the Western world as demeaning. Much of the media (especially in the UK and Ireland) both strengthen this impression and these media are at the same time often seen as the source of attacks on the Islamic world.

The ideals of the enlightentment, freedom and tolerance would be best propagated by presenting a positive image of them. In this way, these ideals have taken a deep hold in "Christendom". In the same way they will take hold in other cultures, but it will be a long battle.

Very well put. Violence isn't an answer to provocation by comic strips and I also consider that Muslims are alienated because of media depiction of their countries and more importantly the culture itself. Smaller things will also surely play a role in alienation. Usage of words like Islamist terrorists shows the whole religion in a bad light rather than saying 'radical' Islamist terrorists (something the BBC uses), a word which was well stressed when Breivik went on his shooting rampage. It's also a question of offending sensibilities of a section of the community and previously an insensitive satirical post (Muhammad depicted as a terrorist) also caused furore worldwide, he was courting controversy with full knowledge of the possible repercussions. I'm not defending the attacks but Hebdo would have been naive to believe that his publications would not have been attacked after his foolhardy satire.

Rhubroma, the other question that should be posed is- 'how much freedom is too much freedom?' I'm not disagreeing with you on your points about religious extremists posing a threat to society's smooth functioning in general but when there is simmering tension, why should a satirist try and flare it up. I don't think the attacks came due to his caricatures of Bin Laden or other terrorist groups. I think that the depiction of the religion isn't too dissimilar to what many rightly or wrongly believe to be true (not just in the west). That said, such attacks should not be condoned (be it in India, Britain, France or USA) and such groups should not be tolerated as well. I'm not saying anyone's wrong or contradicting myself, merely trying to reason why so many radical Islamist attacks take place and questioning why a man should fuel a fire.

usedtobefast said:
http://smileyandwest.ning.com/forum/topics/the-conversation-slavoj-zizek
a smiley and west podcast...for mature audiences only. zizek,yo...
Good piece. How much mileage has Zizek gained in the recent months in the USA with all these Occupy protests and his revolutionary and Marxist viewpoint.
 
ramjambunath said:
...

Rhubroma, the other question that should be posed is- 'how much freedom is too much freedom?' I'm not disagreeing with you on your points about religious extremists posing a threat to society's smooth functioning in general but when there is simmering tension, why should a satirist try and flare it up. I don't think the attacks came due to his caricatures of Bin Laden or other terrorist groups. I think that the depiction of the religion isn't too dissimilar to what many rightly or wrongly believe to be true (not just in the west). That said, such attacks should not be condoned (be it in India, Britain, France or USA) and such groups should not be tolerated as well. I'm not saying anyone's wrong or contradicting myself, merely trying to reason why so many radical Islamist attacks take place and questioning why a man should fuel a fire.


Good piece. How much mileage has Zizek gained in the recent months in the USA with all these Occupy protests and his revolutionary and Marxist viewpoint.

That's the $10,000 question.

I can only claim that the freedom of intellectual independence and self-sufficiency are the only things I hold sacrosanct. And there are those in our world, both within and outside of it, who want nothing less than to be provoked (and I'm not talking about by going to war in the Middle East, but merely through a basic conquest of secular society: freedom of expression; as an excuse to vent all their considerable social frustrations and incompatability with modernity because of their religions views), who thus wish to destroy the spirit of freedom and independence, the only natural spirit.

This isn't a question of the appropriateness or not of some satire, but the measure and means of the disent. And, here, the religious fanatics are simply not the ones to provide the answer to your $10,000 question.

In any case, the only way these radicals are going to be reformed is from within their community. We can't do it though reason or force alone. Until, however, a significant part of even the moderates within it feel that they have been victimized and alienated by the West, then change is not looming over the horizon. It will probably take decades, if not longer.
 
Jul 4, 2011
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rhubroma said:
That's the $10,000 question.

I can only claim that the freedom of intellectual independence and self-sufficiency are the only things I hold sacrosanct. And there are those in our world, both within and outside of it, who want nothing less than to be provoked (and I'm not talking about by going to war in the Middle East, but merely through a basic conquest of secular society: freedom of expression; as an excuse to vent all their considerable social frustrations and incompatability with modernity because of their religions views), who thus wish to destroy the spirit of freedom and independence, the only natural spirit.

This isn't a question of the appropriateness or not of some satire, but the measure and means of the disent. And, here, the religious fanatics are simply not the ones to provide the answer to your $10,000 question.

I think we are in agreement here, I realise that the radicals aren't the ones to answer that question.
The counter question to some wanting to be provoked is that there are others who want to provoke. This could go on forever but in my mind, the intelligentsia (which I consider Hebdo to be a part of) could avoid topics that could flare up into such incidents just as the radical fanatics could avoid an overreaction to a small bit of satire.
 
ramjambunath said:
I think we are in agreement here, I realise that the radicals aren't the ones to answer that question.
The counter question to some wanting to be provoked is that there are others who want to provoke. This could go on forever but in my mind, the intelligentsia (which I consider Hebdo to be a part of) could avoid topics that could flare up into such incidents just as the radical fanatics could avoid an overreaction to a small bit of satire.

Yes but some provocation isn't a bad thing. When it's done in the best spirit of satire a la Juvenal, Erasmus and Swift, who wrote like a sacred monster, then how could I be against it?

It's a call to be mindful of our folly. And only the fools don't take it as such.
 
Jul 4, 2011
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Agreed and on a personal note a bit of satire, no matter how bad in taste, would not make me throw a fit of rage and attack the satirist. The old adage 'the pen is mightier than the sword' holds true in so many ways and such attacks only further ostracise the community. I was just trying to reason why it happened and was the problem unilateral. After this good discussion, I believe it wasn't unilateral but definitely the response wasn't justified and far more than the cause warranted.
 
Jul 4, 2011
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What's happening in Italy? Berlusconi just won a finance bill but the opposition abstained and BBC World service are saying he may have lost his majority.
 
Jul 4, 2011
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Sarkozy called Israeli PM Netanyahu 'liar'

French President Nicolas Sarkozy called Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu a "liar" in remarks to US President Barack Obama overheard by journalists.

"I can't stand him any more, he's a liar," Mr Sarkozy said in French.

"You may be sick of him, but me, I have to deal with him every day," Mr Obama replied.

The exchange at the G20 summit was quoted by a French website, Arret sur Images, and confirmed by other media.

The remarks - during a private conversation - were overheard by a few journalists last week but were not initially reported, the BBC's Christian Fraser in Paris says.

Journalists at the bilateral press conference had been handed translation boxes but had been told not to plug in their headphones until the backroom conversation had finished. But those who did heard the revealing comments.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-15635476

This is just Gordon Brown-esque and as a third person made me chuckle.
Here's the link to refresh the memory
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/apr/28/gordon-brown-bigoted-woman
 
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Anonymous

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ramjambunath said:
Sarkozy called Israeli PM Netanyahu 'liar'

French President Nicolas Sarkozy called Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu a "liar" in remarks to US President Barack Obama overheard by journalists.

"I can't stand him any more, he's a liar," Mr Sarkozy said in French.

"You may be sick of him, but me, I have to deal with him every day," Mr Obama replied.

The exchange at the G20 summit was quoted by a French website, Arret sur Images, and confirmed by other media.

The remarks - during a private conversation - were overheard by a few journalists last week but were not initially reported, the BBC's Christian Fraser in Paris says.

Journalists at the bilateral press conference had been handed translation boxes but had been told not to plug in their headphones until the backroom conversation had finished. But those who did heard the revealing comments.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-15635476

This is just Gordon Brown-esque and as a third person made me chuckle.
Here's the link to refresh the memory
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/apr/28/gordon-brown-bigoted-woman


This reflects poorly particularly on Obama. But it's no real surprise.
 
Dec 7, 2010
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Hugh Januss said:
Yes but in your world every action of Obama reflects poorly on him and only him.:rolleyes:

Please Hugh do not forget to add me on that list. :p

Seriously what would we expect President Obama to say? Israel - US polices present some serious problems for the USA and the entire region. That area is a cluster F. :eek:
 
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Hugh Januss said:
Yes but in your world every action of Obama reflects poorly on him and only him.:rolleyes:

Well HJ, I just call 'em like I see 'em.

You think this to be a bright spot for the Prez? And of Sarkozy?

And to demonstrate some objectivity... this reflects positively on Obama in my view;

In a move that could escalate hostilities with Congress, President Obama may be planning to use his executive authority to publicize special funding requests that lawmakers make for pet projects.

http://www.nationaljournal.com/whitehouse/name-and-shame-obama-may-go-public-with-lawmakers-funding-requests-20111105
 
Sep 10, 2009
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Hugh Januss said:
Yes but in your world every action of Obama reflects poorly on him and only him.:rolleyes:
You get the feeling that Obama could save 10 orphans from a burning building and conservatives would criticize him for not saving the cat too.

Come to think of it, that did sort of happen:

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/political-animal/2011_10/limbaugh_just_cant_help_himsel032841.php

Limbaugh, meanwhile, is so blinded by hatred for America’s president that he’s siding with terrorists on the air, hoping to convince his audience that Obama is targeting Ugandan Christians.
 
Jul 4, 2011
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Hugh Januss said:
Yes but in your world every action of Obama reflects poorly on him and only him.:rolleyes:

True with a strong Jewish lobby (I believe) the last thing a President has to do is to spew off carelessly about an Israeli PM. You'd think that after Bush Blair incident and the Gordon Brown incident a person in such a media active job would know how to turn off the microphone.
 
Jul 16, 2011
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rhubroma said:
Yes but some provocation isn't a bad thing. When it's done in the best spirit of satire a la Juvenal, Erasmus and Swift, who wrote like a sacred monster, then how could I be against it?

It's a call to be mindful of our folly. And only the fools don't take it as such.

My final word on this issue. Hebdo's cartoons were certainly not a la Swift, but done in the spirit of sensationalism and he knew what the repercussions might well be (maybe the added sales were worth it). Such satirical sensationalism is like a badly aimed flamethrower. In order for satire to work, it has to make readers think. Extreme Islamists are not open to such satire and it alienates the moderates.

Of course the reaction was way out of proportion. I'm not saying that we should appease the terrorists, but provoking them with words will not work. Those who carry out terrorist attacks of any kind must be brought to justice. With moderates of any kind, we should always use tolerance and reason. As I said, the extremists must be seen as extremists in "their own camp".
 
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VeloCity said:
You get the feeling that Obama could save 10 orphans from a burning building and conservatives would criticize him for not saving the cat too.

Come to think of it, that did sort of happen:

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/political-animal/2011_10/limbaugh_just_cant_help_himsel032841.php

Here's the actual quote;

Limbaugh, meanwhile, is so blinded by hatred for America’s president that he’s siding with terrorists on the air, hoping to convince his (suckers, lined thru) audience that Obama is targeting Ugandan Christians.

That's disparaging 20,000,000+ million people per week.

There are some things Americans simply shouldn’t do, and some lines that shouldn’t be crossed.

Yes, like Obama pitting one group of Americans against another.

Here’s an idea: given that Limbaugh is one of the nation’s most prominent Republican leaders,

No, actually he's not. In fact, there is a fair amount of displeasure between RL and the Repub establishment (Kristol, Krauthammer, etc).

Mr. Benen seems to be a who's who of left wing political commentary all over the interwebz. Just anther angry lib in front of a computer.
 
May 23, 2010
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Gould also obtained a controlling interest in the Western Union telegraph company, and, after 1881, in the elevated railways in New York City. Ultimately, he was connected with many of the largest railway financial operations in the United States from 1868-1888. During the Great Southwest Railroad Strike of 1886 he hired strikebreakers; according to labor unionists, he said at the time, "I can hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jay_Gould
 
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redtreviso said:
Gould also obtained a controlling interest in the Western Union telegraph company, and, after 1881, in the elevated railways in New York City. Ultimately, he was connected with many of the largest railway financial operations in the United States from 1868-1888. During the Great Southwest Railroad Strike of 1886 he hired strikebreakers; according to labor unionists, he said at the time, "I can hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jay_Gould

Sounds like you found the inspiration for the current administration.

Congrats.
 
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