World Politics

[Anonymous]

""FOX news says: "Some people are talking about..."


This is one small example of how FOX brainwashes its viewers

FOX news: Change the channel before the channel changes you.""

I snipped the above for everyone's sanity.

The "DemocraticUnderground" accusing Fox of Brainwash is, um, rich.

 

[redtreviso]

I snipped the above for everyone's sanity.

The "DemocraticUnderground" accusing Fox of Brainwash is, um, rich.

1 blogger at DU.. That's really comparable to foxnews' effort to brainwash.

 

[Anonymous]

1 blogger at DU.. That's really comparable to foxnews' effort to brainwash.

You missed the point.

 

[redtreviso]

You missed the point.

Surely you wouldn't think I'd find something like that at NEWMAX or freerepublic?
They wouldn't dare..They like those little gold stars for their forehead like you do.

 

[rhubroma]

The entire park area has become a completely pummeled, ugly, smelly, rodent infested, near biohazard area, with people smoking weed, and even meth with two ODing in the last week or so, and several weapons were found on people in the park, including knives. Of the 100 people or so that were left down there last week before the crowds gathered to fight the cops and disobey the city's eviction notice, I'd say maybe 10 were principled to the cause, but even they didn't know how to properly organize and remain with little cohesion. Now, the people that have showed up to fight the eviction are opportunistic, anti-police, anti-everything it seems, with a fair number of them from out of town now. It's just an ugly mess.

Compounding this, I do not believe a city park in the heart of the city is a place to camp for weeks, let alone do drugs. I'd like to park to be back to what it was, so I can walk through it, enjoy the trees, the statues, the water fountain. This is what city parks are for, and why ordinances are written and enforced. I believe at this point probably 99% of the other 200,000 people or so that come into the city on a daily basis share my opinion.

As to police support. While I do not support them on every issue, every case, I believe just like most workers, the vast majority of them make the right decision the vast majority of the time. As to this situation, as I noted, they have used extreme care and caution, and shown great restraint and patience in not just going in with teargas and rubber bullets, which to me has been worthy of high praise. If they were to go in with clubs and start beating on people or shooting them, no I would not likely support that. But what they have done, and the methods they have taken, I fully support. And if they have to push a little harder, and arrest a few more people to get them out of there, so be it.

Furthermore, it is my opinion that the remaining protesters are hurting the original cause. This has been taken to such an extreme, and been taken over by such a fringe element of law breakers with no voice to call for any serious reform, that it's causing damage to whatever anti-corruption, pro-labor hopes there may have been to effectively organize and cause real change.

In Italian there's a word that beautifully describes your point of view, for which, unfortunately, we have no exact equivalent in English: benpensante.

And it signifies one that is in agreement with the predominant social, political and cultural views; which basically means a conservative who is usually form the bourgeoisie, is a bourgeois or capitalist, who has made life easy for himself by being able to exploit a certain set of favorable circumstances, without which, his world begins to fall apart. This is why such a figure is usually upset if not flat out disgusted and outraged by the ugliness, the untidy messiness and unlawful aspect (in the metaphorical and actual senses) of the counter-current fringe types, which goes against his need for orderliness and the respect for authority he likes, like those you describe, such as anarchists, or the anti-bourgeois and capitalist movements who directly challange the mainstream affairs of the state and its ordinances, its henchmen in law enforcement and, of course, the comfortable existence of the benpensante himself; to expose them for their hypocrisy (I'm not refering to you specifically, but generally), while making mischief in the pure spirit of upsetting and voicing disent about a system they find to be equally disgusting and outraging. At the same time, as Pasolini pointed out, often these same anarchists are just as apparently hypocritical as their targets, in attacking the policemen who were the sons of woking class families they never personlly knew, having grown up in the thows of a bourgeousie home and having studied at university. Though I'm not certain Pasolini's 60's era assessment of the composition of Italy's anti-establisment movement, is still applicable to middle class America today. Be that as it may. In any case, for them, law enforcement represents the strong arm of a state that's irrevokably repressive and against the true spirit of liberty and freedom, through promoting an established order congenial to the inersts of the benpensanti and the inevitable conformism that results.

For the anarchist, consequently, the objective of his protest is on the one hand to cause outrage to the state and its law enforcement, which he regards as thoroughly mendacious and corrupt, and on the other to be repulsive to the benpensante, whom he regards as a sort of radical of compliance and duplicity, who, by working the system and its rules, which he, the anarchist, inevitably regards as unjust and hypocritical, is a base opportunist driven purely by profit and material comfort.

In English we would perhaps say a priggish person in the moral majority. But benpenasante has a more specific and at the same time inclusive characterization and meaning, in the desciptive sense, than anything we have in English.

I mention these things well aware that I've painted a rather extreme portrait of both camps, which in extreme cases does exist, though generally, as in yours, is more tempered and nuanced; only to point out that in today's society the extreme elements on both sides have come out evidencing a period of mounting tension and growing uncertainty within it.

What seems to me apparent, though, as in the case with your park, is that presently the extremeness of those in the one camp, which has by now prevailed for decades in our society, has brought out the radicalness in the other; which is always latent and just waiting for the right set of circumstances to surface like those we have at the financial markets and democratic governments today.

The circmstances have arrived, Alpe, and what I think we're witnessing are the inevitable "road blocks" set up by some to disrupt a despicable race and thus cause a deviation from the desired (by many) historical route, when a system that has been working so inefficiently and so unjustly can no longe keep it on course. Taken in the best spirit, I think, they are a call to reason and critical analysis, whereas taken in the worst way they are simply an unsupportable nuisance to laissez-faire economics to be squashed like flies. Time will tell which action is taken, but if past history is any lesson, then the latter is certainly the more likely occurance. It all depends how much, or how, little democatic support they recieve by those who may not agree with their methods, but understand that if it's gotten to the point where the parks have degenerated to the extent they have, then something must not working and in need of change. Certainly they won't be the ones who get it done, but they are the first vapors of a steaming pressure-pot that acts as a warning before it explodes.

So it naturally seems to me that before mainsteam society can have its urban parks cleaned up and tidy again, then it better work on those circumstances that have caused the mounting tension and growing uncertainty. Otherwise chaos.

 

[Anonymous]

Surely you wouldn't think I'd find something like that at NEWMAX or freerepublic?
They wouldn't dare..They like those little gold stars for their forehead like you do.

A brainwashed blogger attempting to brainwash accusing Fox of brainwashing.

I'm not surprised you don't see it.

 

[VeloCity]

Once again, regulations are not the problem.

The two plants tell a complex story of what happens when regulations written in Washington ripple through the real economy. Some jobs are lost. Others are created. In the end, say economists who have studied this question, the overall impact on employment is minimal.

...Data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics show that very few layoffs are caused principally by tougher rules. Whenever a firm lays off workers, the bureau asks executives the biggest reason for the job cuts. In 2010, 0.3 percent of the people who lost their jobs in layoffs were let go because of “government regulations/intervention.” By comparison, 25 percent were laid off because of a drop in business demand.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/busin.../2011/10/19/gIQALRF5IN_story.html?tid=wp_ipad

Republicans need to find a new economic bugaboo. It ain't regulations that are depressing the economy.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

In Italian there's a word that beautifully describes your point of view, for which, unfortunately, we have no exact equivalent in English: benpensante.

And it signifies one that is in agreement with the predominant social, political and cultural views; which basically means a conservative who is usually form the bourgeoisie, is a bourgeois or capitalist, who has made life easy for himself by being able to exploit a certain set of favorable circumstances, without which, his world begins to fall apart. This is why such a figure is usually upset if not flat out disgusted and outraged by the ugliness, the untidy messiness and unlawful aspect (in the metaphorical and actual senses) of the counter-current fringe types, which goes against his need for orderliness and the respect for authority he likes, like those you describe, such as anarchists, or the anti-bourgeois and capitalist movements who directly challange the mainstream affairs of the state and its ordinances, its henchmen in law enforcement and, of course, the comfortable existence of the benpensante himself; to expose them for their hypocrisy (I'm not refering to you specifically, but generally), while making mischief in the pure spirit of upsetting and voicing disent about a system they find to be equally disgusting and outraging. At the same time, as Pasolini pointed out, often these same anarchists are just as apparently hypocritical as their targets, in attacking the policemen who were the sons of woking class families they never personlly knew, having grown up in the thows of a bourgeousie home and having studied at university. Though I'm not certain Pasolini's 60's era assessment of the composition of Italy's anti-establisment movement, is still applicable to middle class America today. Be that as it may. In any case, for them, law enforcement represents the strong arm of a state that's irrevokably repressive and against the true spirit of liberty and freedom, through promoting an established order congenial to the inersts of the benpensanti and the inevitable conformism that results.

For the anarchist, consequently, the objective of his protest is on the one hand to cause outrage to the state and its law enforcement, which he regards as thoroughly mendacious and corrupt, and on the other to be repulsive to the benpensante, whom he regards as a sort of radical of compliance and duplicity, who, by working the system and its rules, which he, the anarchist, inevitably regards as unjust and hypocritical, is a base opportunist driven purely by profit and material comfort.

In English we would perhaps say a priggish person in the moral majority. But benpenasante has a more specific and at the same time inclusive characterization and meaning, in the desciptive sense, than anything we have in English.

I mention these things well aware that I've painted a rather extreme portrait of both camps, which in extreme cases does exist, though generally, as in yours, is more tempered and nuanced; only to point out that in today's society the extreme elements on both sides have come out evidencing a period of mounting tension and growing uncertainty within it.

What seems to me apparent, though, as in the case with your park, is that presently the extremeness of those in the one camp, which has by now prevailed for decades in our society, has brought out the radicalness in the other; which is always latent and just waiting for the right set of circumstances to surface like those we have at the financial markets and democratic governments today.

The circmstances have arrived, Alpe, and what I think we're witnessing are the inevitable "road blocks" set up by some to disrupt a despicable race and thus cause a deviation from the desired (by many) historical route, when a system that has been working so inefficiently and so unjustly can no longe keep it on course. Taken in the best spirit, I think, they are a call to reason and critical analysis, whereas taken in the worst way they are simply an unsupportable nuisance to laissez-faire economics to be squashed like flies. Time will tell which action is taken, but if past history is any lesson, then the latter is certainly the more likely occurance. It all depends how much, or how, little democatic support they recieve by those who may not agree with their methods, but understand that if it's gotten to the point where the parks have degenerated to the extent they have, then something must not working and in need of change. Certainly they won't be the ones who get it done, but they are the first vapors of a steaming pressure-pot that acts as a warning before it explodes.

So it naturally seems to me that before mainsteam society can have its urban parks cleaned up and tidy again, then it better work on those circumstances that have caused the mounting tension and growing uncertainty. Otherwise chaos.

All of this just post to tell Alp to sit back and enjoy having his park look, and smell like a shi! Hole! Thanks for all the great information.

 

[redtreviso]

All of this just post to tell Alp to sit back and enjoy having his park look, and smell like a shi! Hole! Thanks for all the great information.

I guess he has special ownership to "his park",, There must be bronze plaques scattered all around with his name on them. A special place only for the unique and obedient.

 

[VeloCity]

Alpe, you may have been on to something:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/weigel/2011/11/14/spencer_bachus_rogue_trader.html

Last night, 60 Minutes ran a report on the shocking normalcy of stock trades by members of Congress. The world's greatest deliberative bodies are exempt from insider trading laws, even though its members get quicker access to market-moving information than almost anyone else.

60 Minutes transcript: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18560_1...side-information/?tag=contentMain;cbsCarousel

So basically Bachus - and many other Reps too - were betting on, and making money off of, the economy tanking, inside info on health care legislation, etc. And all apparently perfectly legal, because Congress is "deemed exempt" from insider trading rules.

Wonderful system we have here.

 

[redtreviso]

Alpe, you may have been on to something:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/weigel/2011/11/14/spencer_bachus_rogue_trader.html


60 Minutes transcript: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18560_1...side-information/?tag=contentMain;cbsCarousel

So basically Bachus - and many other Reps too - were betting on, and making money off of, the economy tanking, inside info on health care legislation, etc. And all apparently perfectly legal, because Congress is "deemed exempt" from insider trading rules.

Wonderful system we have here.

They don't even mention Bill Frist and Tom DeLay having DAY TRADERS working out of their congressional offices... It would really get thick if they found the trading firms that handled their transactions and how much they were able to put behind mirroring these trades.

""CBS is Lying to Protect Congress: No One is Immune to Insider Trading Laws

In the United States and many other jurisdictions, however, “insiders” are not just limited to corporate officials and major shareholders where illegal insider trading is concerned, but can include any individual who trades shares based on material non-public information in violation of some duty of trust.

Congressional members are US Citizens and subject to all of our laws, whether they or CBS want to admit it or not.

I have yet to see one argument which explains WHY they are immune to these laws?

They are not.

Just because no one has held them accountable, does not mean they cannot be held accountable.""

http://getsmartnews.com/news/270863

 

[Anonymous]

Once again, regulations are not the problem.



http://www.washingtonpost.com/busin.../2011/10/19/gIQALRF5IN_story.html?tid=wp_ipad

Republicans need to find a new economic bugaboo. It ain't regulations that are depressing the economy.

This is silly.

economists who have studied this question

Krugman is an economist. He's also an idealogue. A vague reference to 'economists' is not very impressive.

In 2010, 0.3 percent of the people who lost their jobs in layoffs were let go because of “government regulations/intervention.” By comparison, 25 percent were laid off because of a drop in business demand.

Regulations certainly have direct and indirect effects on demand. Take the examples of the coal plant in the article. Spending millions on "scrubbers", both in material and labor does what to the cost of energy? As energy costs rise what happens to purchasing behavior to those on the margins (the middle even)? Do they buy as much at the grocery store? Do they frequent restaurants as much? Do they buy new furniture or clothing as often?

It's like asking how do people die? It's nearly always the case that the persons heart stopped. So there you have it... nearly everyone dies due to cardiac arrest.

A major reason for the current economic condition is lack of demand. Of course employers will cite this. But what are the reasons for the lack of demand?

 

[Anonymous]

Alpe, you may have been on to something:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/weigel/2011/11/14/spencer_bachus_rogue_trader.html


60 Minutes transcript: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18560_1...side-information/?tag=contentMain;cbsCarousel

So basically Bachus - and many other Reps too - were betting on, and making money off of, the economy tanking, inside info on health care legislation, etc. And all apparently perfectly legal, because Congress is "deemed exempt" from insider trading rules.

Wonderful system we have here.

What?!? Our politicians are corrupt??

Pelosi fires back at '60 Minutes' report on 'soft corruption'

And what does the politician do? Destroy the messenger of course...

"Congress has never done more for consumers nor has the Congress passed more critical reforms of the credit card industry than under the Speakership of Nancy Pelosi," Pelosi spokesman, Drew Hammill, said in a statement soon after the report aired Sunday night.

"It is very troubling that 60 Minutes would base their reporting off of an already-discredited conservative author who has made a career of out attacking Democrats," he added.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/11/13/politics/60-minutes-pelosi/index.html?hpt=hp_c2

You just have to wonder how these bottom-feeders sleep at night.

 

[Bala Verde]

Once again, regulations are not the problem.



http://www.washingtonpost.com/busin.../2011/10/19/gIQALRF5IN_story.html?tid=wp_ipad

Republicans need to find a new economic bugaboo. It ain't regulations that are depressing the economy.

I posted a similar article a couple of weeks ago; see Misrepresentations, Regulations and Jobs

By:

Bruce Bartlett held senior policy roles in the Reagan and George H.W. Bush administrations and served on the staffs of Representatives Jack Kemp and Ron Paul.

As he stated:

In my opinion, regulatory uncertainty is a canard invented by Republicans that allows them to use current economic problems to pursue an agenda supported by the business community year in and year out. In other words, it is a simple case of political opportunism, not a serious effort to deal with high unemployment.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

In Italian there's a word that beautifully describes your point of view, for which, unfortunately, we have no exact equivalent in English: benpensante.

If you think I'm a member of the benpensante you are out of your mind.

I guess he has special ownership to "his park",, There must be bronze plaques scattered all around with his name on them. A special place only for the unique and obedient.

Wrong. The park belongs to the people. Owned by the city, equally shared by all. A socialist concept actually.

Under your thinking it should be allowed to be selfishly occupied in entierty by a group of law breakers who ruin the place and don't give a damn about the rest of us.

All of this just post to tell Alp to sit back and enjoy having his park look, and smell like a sh!t Hole! Thanks for all the great information.

It's not my park, but you've got the gist of it. That's literally what these people did. They moved in, made their point, then stayed long after that point was made and worn out, and turned the place into a sh!t hole in the process.

Oh, and I guess I'm a bourgeois conservative because I (along with a LOT of other people) wanted them out. Right.

 

[fatandfast]

question for Italians..you don't have property taxes? A tax based on the size or value of your property? I was listening to the radio and the reporter stated that Berlusconi championed a legal change that did away with property tax. This can't be right..right?

 

[rhubroma]

If you think I'm a member of the benpensante you are out of your mind.

Wrong. The park belongs to the people. Owned by the city, equally shared by all. A socialist concept actually.

Under your thinking it should be allowed to be selfishly occupied in entierty by a group of law breakers who ruin the place and don't give a damn about the rest of us.


It's not my park, but you've got the gist of it. That's literally what these people did. They moved in, made their point, then stayed long after that point was made and worn out, and turned the place into a sh!t hole in the process.

Oh, and I guess I'm a bourgeois conservative because I (along with a LOT of other people) wanted them out. Right.

I'm surely out of my mind.

However, the park, precisely because it is a public space, becomes a forum for all types of expession.

Otherwise what type of public space is it? For those who only maintain a certain decorum? Or what's convenient? Nice to see? In times like this?!!! I ask you.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Glad to see several links to the excellent 60 Minutes piece. Really showed just how f'd up and rotten corrupt our political system is. That look on Pelosi's face when Steve Kroft asked her about her sweet deals was worth a thousand words. Sadly, as we later saw, no one in Congress at all wants to change things, or even touch this issue. And they wonder why their approval rating is in single digits.

 

[rhubroma]

question for Italians..you don't have property taxes? A tax based on the size or value of your property? I was listening to the radio and the reporter stated that Berlusconi championed a legal change that did away with property tax. This can't be right..right?

Berlusconi proposed to abolish the property tax on first homes. Evidently this was to be an incentive to invest in more properties, and hence make the housing market grow, coming from a real estate mogul such as Berlusconi himself.

Naturally it was fallimentary.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

However, the park, precisely because it is a public space, becomes a forum for all types of expession.

Illegal camping, doing drugs, defecating and urinating, and generally destroying a public space enjoyed by others is not a form of worthy or justifiable expression. And that's what this had become.

Otherwise what type of public space is it? For those who only maintain a certain decorum? Or what's convenient? Nice to see? In times like this?!!! I ask you.

It's a place for people to relax, enjoy the peace, the small slice of nature and unwind from the busyness of the city. And every once in a while for someone to organize a meeting, give a speech, or hold a protest - for a few hours perhaps.

That's why we have laws. Laws we all agreed upon after much debate and reflection. Don't like the laws? Seek to get them changed. I'm certain if the occupy people tried to get a referendum or signatures allowing them to legally take over the park on a permanent basis they would hardly get more than a handful of votes, as most people agree with my assessment and were sick of them. And I live in one of the most "liberal" cities in the USA.

 

[redtreviso]

Oh, and I guess I'm a bourgeois conservative because I (along with a LOT of other people) wanted them out. Right.

next you can just get the po po to smack the head of anyone that "looks" like they might go there...and God Bless Richard Nixon

 

[Semper Fidelis]

If you think I'm a member of the benpensante you are out of your mind.

Wrong. The park belongs to the people. Owned by the city, equally shared by all. A socialist concept actually.

Under your thinking it should be allowed to be selfishly occupied in entierty by a group of law breakers who ruin the place and don't give a damn about the rest of us.


It's not my park, but you've got the gist of it. That's literally what these people did. They moved in, made their point, then stayed long after that point was made and worn out, and turned the place into a sh!t hole in the process.

Oh, and I guess I'm a bourgeois conservative because I (along with a LOT of other people) wanted them out. Right.

I knew what you mean Alpe. I think it is sad that you can’t speak your own mind.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

next you can just get the po po to smack the head of anyone that "looks" like they might go there...and God Bless Richard Nixon

Hey Redtreviso I just ****ed all over Dallas FtWorth area.... next up I will take a dump!

 

[redtreviso]

Hey Redtreviso I just ****ed all over Dallas FtWorth area.... next up I will take a dump!

I'm sure it will smell like home to you.

 

[patricknd]

I'm surely out of my mind.

However, the park, precisely because it is a public space, becomes a forum for all types of expession.

Otherwise what type of public space is it? For those who only maintain a certain decorum? Or what's convenient? Nice to see? In times like this?!!! I ask you.

crappin in the grass is expression?