World Politics

[The Hitch]

Tom DeLay and Bill Frist are doing just swell with no complaints from you or scotty

And you know that Alpe made no complaints about those guys how?

 

[Semper Fidelis]

And you know that Alpe made no complaints about those guys how?

No worries hitch. He is able to call me out with mental institutions but if I follow the same it is deleted. BTW do not mention Tuesday in any post in the LA thread. WOW

 

[redtreviso]

No worries hitch. He is able to call me out with mental institutions but if I follow the same it is deleted. BTW do not mention Tuesday in any post in the LA thread. WOW

I never said anything about you and mental institutions.. or about your sister either.

 

[Hugh Januss]

And you know that Alpe made no complaints about those guys how?

Well I don't want to show up one of the top 3 posters and I have a lot trouble with "Red's" style, but........you could go back and read and see if Alpe posted any complaints about those guys in the past. (I'm guessing....no.)

 

[redtreviso]

Well I don't want to show up one of the top 3 posters and I have a lot trouble with "Red's" style, but........you could go back and read and see if Alpe posted any complaints about those guys in the past. (I'm guessing....no.)

Just like Scott I'm sure he didn't as 60 minutes didn't.. The real story behind congress people trading on inside information is Frist and Delay.. They had gdf trading desks going in their offices, on the tax payers dime no less.. Not a word from the right.. There's only an interest in this at all because they could make a thin accusation at Pelosi.. and then alp chimes in with kiss kiss to scotty..oh yea pelosi should go sis boom bah.. As if the right's concerns should be taken seriously.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

That's a load of crap. I commented on Pelosi as she was the topic at hand. The topic wasn't Tom DeLay, Bill Frist, Jim Wright, Jim Traficant, George Ryan, Rod Blagojevich, Scooter Libby or any other crooked politician in or out of office, retired, or headed to prison. To presume that because I didn't comment on someone who wasn't being discussed thus means I support them is an absurd argument.

No worries hitch. He is able to call me out with mental institutions but if I follow the same it is deleted.

You've both had posts deleted, and both been suspended, something I'm sure you're well aware of.

 

[redtreviso]

That's a load of crap. I commented on Pelosi as she was the topic at hand. The topic wasn't Tom DeLay, Bill Frist, Jim Wright, Jim Traficant, George Ryan, Rod Blagojevich, Scooter Libby or any other crooked politician in or out of office, retired, or headed to prison. To presume that because I didn't comment on someone who wasn't being discussed thus means I support them is an absurd argument.


You've both had posts deleted, and both been suspended, something I'm sure you're well aware of.

I wouldn't mind pelosi leaving congress. But right wing poutrage towards her regarding the 60 minutes story is stupid since they gave Frist and Delay a complete pass for truly blatant actions ON THE SUBJECT.. The idea that the scotty's should be given the benefit of the doubt when running with something like that is just you submitting to them. OH YEA YOU REASONABLE PERSON I SEE YOUR POINT CHEERS NEXT ROUND ON ME...pfffft..
BTW Louise Slaughter (D-NY) has been all over this for years..It is not a recent story.

As for glenn.. I said glenn beck came to fame from Houston talk radio and his coverage of Cindy Sheehan.. Probably Karl Rove got him that gig with headline news. Beck rose to fame calling Cindy Sheehan "the ***** in the ditch" Houston should have kept the mental hospital inmates in their rooms instead of making them talk radio hosts..None of this is aimed at Glenn Wilson.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

60 Minutes and CBS News have dedicated plenty of airtime to DeLay and plenty of Republicans. Here's a segment on DeLay when he was being investigated. They also point the difference there between what DeLay was doing, and what Wright did that sank his career. You make them sound like they're just one step from Fox News.

In case you're curious, as far as I am concerned Tom DeLay is a political turd of the most disgusting kind. He got a very light sentence (that he still hasn't served a day of), when he should have gotten 20 years of hard labor.

 

[redtreviso]

In case you're curious, as far as I am concerned Tom DeLay is a political turd of the most disgusting kind. He got a very light sentence (that he still hasn't served a day of), when he should have gotten 20 years of hard labor.

and he probably won't .. he thinks he is not subject to prosecution by people not of his kind..Not unlike a white mississippi jury doesn't recognize a crime against a black person by a white.

 

[The Hitch]

I never said anything about you and mental institutions.. or about your sister either.

Glenn - a poster from Houston, made a general comment (had nothing to do with Tom Delay) and you responded with a line about the Houston mental health establishment.

Hey glad to see Y'all are not tired of beating up the USA! Man you guys are like a Chiwawah (sp?)dog humping! Lmao

I forgot..Houston's mental health establishment gave the world Glenn Beck..

Good luck trying to argue that it was just a random observation about Tom Delay that just happened to come into your head at that particular time and that you quoted the Houston poster by accident.

Lets not forget you have quite a history of hurling abuse at posters.

Well I don't want to show up one of the top 3 posters and I have a lot trouble with "Red's" style, but........you could go back and read and see if Alpe posted any complaints about those guys in the past. (I'm guessing....no.)

Only that the forum opened in 2009, a while after either of those had been in power.

 

[rhubroma]

off topic, but is that an avatar of Karel V?

Nope, Martin van Heemskirck and the Colosseum.

 

[Anonymous]

Just like Scott I'm sure he didn't as 60 minutes didn't.. The real story behind congress people trading on inside information is Frist and Delay.. They had gdf trading desks going in their offices, on the tax payers dime no less.. Not a word from the right.. There's only an interest in this at all because they could make a thin accusation at Pelosi.. and then alp chimes in with kiss kiss to scotty..oh yea pelosi should go sis boom bah.. As if the right's concerns should be taken seriously.

Wow, a tacit admission from you that a Dem "could" be less than perfectly honest.

I call that progress.

 

[Anonymous]

An interesting take on where the world is politically.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2080534/Loss-faith-democracy-make-2012-frightening-year-ever.html

 

[redtreviso]

Wow, a tacit admission from you that a Dem "could" be less than perfectly honest.

I call that progress.

I don't even know why you and your heroes like Andrew Breitbart would even object to Pelosi at all..or Obama for that matter..Nothing and no one has interrupted the Republican dominated ENRONing of the government and the economy. OTOH..If Frist and Delay had only done what Pelosi did with investments we would have never heard a word about them...Of course you don't mind that frist and delay suffered no consequences.. I guess in their case you just admire the fsh** out of them for seeing what they want and taking it.

 

[rhubroma]

An interesting take on where the world is politically.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2080534/Loss-faith-democracy-make-2012-frightening-year-ever.html

Apart from the doomsday tone and a continued reliance on all too easy and oversimplistic comparisons, which disregard a myriad of political and social issues today that are in fact vastly different from the Great Depression years; the actuality of this statement about what is politically happening in Europe today caught my eye: "Eighty years on, we have no room for complacency. Although the far Right remains no more than a thuggish and eccentric minority, the elected prime ministers of Greece and Italy have already been booted out to make way for EU-approved technocrats for whom nobody has ever voted.

In the new Europe, the will of the people seems to play second fiddle to the demands of Paris and Berlin. And if the Eurozone crisis intensifies, then it is no idle fantasy to imagine that Angela Merkel, Nicolas Sarkozy and their Brussels allies will demand an even greater centralization of powers, provoking nationalist outrage on the streets of Europe’s capitals."

First of all it should be pointed out that in Italy and Greece the exceptional circumstances, which have brought about the installation of such technocratic governments, is something that has been born within a modality that's perfectly constitutional. Obviously nobody would have desired it to be this way, though legally there isn't anything illegitimate about it.

Secondly, it is the global financial and internal economic crisis which themselves have "necessitated" such drastic measures; and thus these states are simply responding to the will of the strong powers. And this allows us to exactly see just how much the people really count in Western democracy today and how much the lobbies and finance does. They represent an in extremis measure to reassure the notorious markets and the central banks, as well as their "strong" European partners, in an effort to re-stabilize favorably both the concrete and psychological appearances these countries project before these entities. So nothing to be happy about.

Thirdly, what the resigned and exasperated infamous people want and hope for, talking about the collective and not merely certain individuals with extremely large appetites, is economic growth. But economic growth presupposes investments, the investments presuppose an increase in demand, whereas this augmentation presupposes greater buying power. Finally this sequence of causes and effects that interact among themselves presupposes trust, a change in expectations, a mobilization of resources and equality in the distribution of sacrifices and benefits. All of which seems like an irresolvable a rebus, the great problem of homo economicus and our age among the advanced world: how to increase salaries and cut labor costs? How to fire more easily and make labor cuts and decrease unemployment in a market where entire sectors are being moved overseas in the interests of an elite?

Regretably thus far though only the usual suspects have been called upon to make the greatest sacrifices, while, in the same vein, the benefits wind up where they have always gone. For example in Italy while the pensionable age has been raised by 7 years with cuts, no patrimony tax has been placed on the luxury goods of the super-rich (their top-line automobiles, second and third villas, yachts etc.), because the former Berlsuconi coalition, now in the opposition, has vehemently opposed such a tax. Albeit the actual financial sum the state would recoup against the national debt would be a near pittance, however, to scale it is in direct proportion to the gigantic image of self-interest and callousness such policy to cushion the rich makes before the majority in the struggling masses who are living from paycheck to paycheck.

Most people are well aware of the onerous sacrifices that need to be made and of a shift in policy to jump-start economic growth, though they are not willing to be the bearers of all their brunt. What they desire in short from the new leadership is a policy that responds to the dire import of the crisis, but that at once promotes liberty, justice and solidarity. Meanwhile in Italy with the new tax quotas and the fight against evasion measures that the Monti government has recently imposed, in most timely fashion 11 billion euro of private earnings has mysteriously taken flight to Swizerland and elswhere among the fiscal paradises. Again what this represents to the guy living from paycheck to paycheck, and who of course has all of his taxes automatically detracted from them, is as devestating as it is unconscionable. Other than a show of solidarity. Rather a theft against the millions who pay their taxes, not to mention while making decidedly less.

Without these demands being met, then, France and Germany hypothetically demanding greater centralization powers being established within the EU, may very well cause a rise in extreme right-wing nationalism, though also leftist protests against those strong powers that are in many ways central to the global economic crisis the world faces today. The former would be most lamentable, while the latter would simply be unavoidable.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Apart from the doomsday tone and a continued reliance on all too easy and oversimplistic comparisons....

Good post Rhubroma.

 

[python]

<snip> And if the Eurozone crisis intensifies, then it is no idle fantasy to imagine that Angela Merkel, Nicolas Sarkozy and their Brussels allies will demand an even greater centralization of powers,

i'm a convinced euro sceptic. said it many times. yet i dont believe in quitting marriage on a whim...

if any sort of stability is to be preserved on the old continent in the next 12 months we need more centralization and, particularly (!) more independent power to european bank. as terrible as it sounds, it's the only rational solution NOW. this subject is very complex, many talking heads had their say but it boils down to a couple of elementary issues that unfortunately are binary - you either unite and share or you disintegrate.

the button line is that our bloated and disjoint europe to survive economically unfortunately has to become the UNITED STATES of EUROPE. just a brief look at the 2 only successful federal models - the us and the new united germanay - tell us that you need a cenral bank (federal reserve) to establish consistent and transparent credit policy and central government (for coordinating budgets). you can not have the south constantly running deficits at the expense of the north. never will work.

provoking nationalist outrage on the streets of Europe’s capitals."

may be but as i said this closer integration over time must also result in a more coordinated european foreign policy (which is totally absent atm and is essentially subservient to the us) and eventually the new type of a EUROPEAN CITIZEN.

an example.. i asked my finnish friends 10 years ago when the euro was just introduced, do you feel finns or europeans first...the overwhelming answer was 'finns first', today the same friends call themselves europeans first...

imo, new germany deserves credit rather than scorn for trying to lead...after all, it's a peaceful, bloodless lead that germany is yet to learn.

 

[rhubroma]

i'm a convinced euro sceptic. said it many times. yet i dont believe in quitting marriage on a whim...

if any sort of stability is to be preserved on the old continent in the next 12 months we need more centralization and, particularly (!) more independent power to european bank. as terrible as it sounds, it's the only rational solution NOW. this subject is very complex, many talking heads had their say but it boils down to a couple of elementary issues that unfortunately are binary - you either unite and share or you disintegrate.

the button line is that our bloated and disjoint europe to survive economically unfortunately has to become the UNITED STATES of EUROPE. just a brief look at the 2 only successful federal models - the us and the new united germanay - tell us that you need a cenral bank (federal reserve) to establish consistent and transparent credit policy and central government (for coordinating budgets). you can not have the south constantly running deficits at the expense of the north. never will work.


may be but as i said this closer integration over time must also result in a more coordinated european foreign policy (which is totally absent atm and is essentially subservient to the us) and eventually the new type of a EUROPEAN CITIZEN.

an example.. i asked my finnish friends 10 years ago when the euro was just introduced, do you feel finns or europeans first...the overwhelming answer was 'finns first', today the same friends call themselves europeans first...

imo, new germany deserves credit rather than scorn for trying to lead...after all, it's a peaceful, bloodless lead that germany is yet to learn.

And let me be clear, I, too, have ever been an EU skeptic. As I have always said, any union based solely on a currency and on an economic collaboration is destined to be a poor union, especially in light of the lack of an all binding and coherent supranational economic policy, with a federalized system of the US type and under the guidance of a central bank. Yet the United States of Europe, apart from the sheer concept being incongruous and alien to the continental DNA, how would such a USE actually work? There are simply too many differences in culture, mentality, language (which isn't just a manner of communication, but way to perceive the world), traditions, etc. How is it possible, in other words, that in Germany a sublime cheese that's made properly only in the Emilia and known as Parmigiano-Reggiano can be called parmesan and be thought of as the same product? In short, this market based union has begun to destroy that unique cultural patrimony, like a series of delicate ecosystems, which is at the very core of European civilization and identity, while promoting a type of insipid homogenization more suited to McDonalds and Wal-Mart. And I'm not for the McDonaldization of Europe. I left that behind years ago when I left the US.

This essentially because I'm for returning to a form of a pre-globalization economy that values regional and sub-regional strengths and differences, which is to say their irreplaceable and not imitable cultures, without, however, the brutal type of international rivalry that lead to the early 20th century catastrophes: in short one that fosters international cooperation rather than conflict, while still maintaining one's identity. A return to a more local and sustainable market system.

I don't know how this is to be done, only that it must be to save us from the chaotic and totalitarian forms of policy and leadership that this type of economic globalization has wrought through the banks and the multinationals (and the armies). Though this is not to say I'm anti-progressive, or against innovation, or that I'm ingenuous enough to think that arresting the forces of modernity is possible or even desirable - it is not, leave that to the radical nationalists - but that a union that cancels all the things that I value, while enforcing those I detest is simply intolerable. Permitting new air is welcome, in other words, though it can’t be exclusively in the form of an obsequious bow before the tyrannous forces of the market. Though this is what is happining, as I have been witnessing now for the last 20 years and as has been confirmed by the current crisis and the implacable reactions to it.

But what else was to be expected when only the economists had all the say in how the union was to be put together and which forces would predominate?

 

[El Pistolero]

Nope, Martin van Heemskirck and the Colosseum.

Ah

Kinda look alike

 

[rhubroma]

Ah

Kinda look alike

Touché!

 

[Amsterhammer]

the button line is that our bloated and disjoint europe to survive economically unfortunately has to become the UNITED STATES of EUROPE....

...may be but as i said this closer integration over time must also result in a more coordinated european foreign policy (which is totally absent atm and is essentially subservient to the us) and eventually the new type of a EUROPEAN CITIZEN.....

....imo, new germany deserves credit rather than scorn for trying to lead...after all, it's a peaceful, bloodless lead that germany is yet to learn.

Agree with this. (Of course, you mean 'bottom' line.)

I think that greater integration has to be the way to go now in order to avoid total meltdown...I also believe, as I have mentioned before, that the UK should be set an ultimatum: either all the way in, or all the way out, no more fence sitting while trying to have it both ways.....though I suppose you could argue that in order for the (utopian) Brave New World that Rhubroma and I would both like to see to have any chance of coming about, you first have to let the existing corrupt and economically perverse system implode. But, the possible consequences of such an implosion for ordinary people, are both unforeseeable and incalculable.

Happy ****ing New Year.

European leaders have warned of a difficult year ahead, as many economists predict recession in 2012.

German Chancellor Angela Merkel said Europe was experiencing its "most severe test in decades" but that Europe was growing closer in the debt crisis.

France's President Sarkozy said the crisis was not finished, while Italy's president called for more sacrifices.

Growth in Europe has stalled as the debt crisis has forced governments to slash spending.

The leaders' new year messages came as leading economists polled by the BBC said they expected a return to recession in Europe in the first half of 2012.

The cost of borrowing for some of the eurozone's largest economies, including Italy and Spain, has shot up in recent months as lenders fear governments will not be able to pay back money they have already borrowed.

With growth stalled, the pressure is on governments across Europe, not just ones using the single currency, to cut spending in order to meet debt obligations.

Fears are now focusing on a potential second credit crunch, triggered by the exposure of banks across Europe to Italy's huge debt.

The president of Italy, the eurozone's third-largest economy, urged people to make sacrifices to prevent the "financial collapse of Italy".

President Giorgio Napolitano said: "Sacrifices are necessary to ensure the future of young people, it's our objective and a commitment we cannot avoid."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16377010

 

[python]

somehow, i’ve become very interested in the subject of american and israeli pressure on iran and the eventualities.

curiously, the article from the faraway source (australia ) stands out. it strips away all the fluff and presents the available options clearer than anything i’ve read so far...really worth a read.

http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/po...t-of-options-against-iran-20120102-1pi8q.html

 

[Cobblestones]

somehow, i’ve become very interested in the subject of american and israeli pressure on iran and the eventualities.

curiously, the article from the faraway source (australia ) stands out. it strips away all the fluff and presents the available options clearer than anything i’ve read so far...really worth a read.

http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/po...t-of-options-against-iran-20120102-1pi8q.html

It basically lists all the well known facts, but there's not much analysis in there.

Here's something to ponder: the US would like Iran to give up its enrichment program (which, as long as it is civilian in nature, is not illegal under NPT or IAEA rules). Basically, the US would like to make Iran dependent on import of nuclear fuel while they conduct one of the most comprehensive trade and financial boycotts the world has ever seen.

Let's turn it around. How would the US react if oil rich countries conducted a boycott of the US unless we stop drilling for oil ourselves and become even more dependent on imports. It's not a perfect analogy of course, but it should bring the point across.

 

[rhubroma]

somehow, i’ve become very interested in the subject of american and israeli pressure on iran and the eventualities.

curiously, the article from the faraway source (australia ) stands out. it strips away all the fluff and presents the available options clearer than anything i’ve read so far...really worth a read.

http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/po...t-of-options-against-iran-20120102-1pi8q.html

Just goes to show you that the US' wars in Afghanistan and especially Iraq have played right into Iran's hand in potentially permitting it to emerge as the premier regional power.

 

[python]

It basically lists all the well known facts, but there's not much analysis in there.

i was not looking for a comprehensive analysis when i read the article i recommended. i read plenty of analysis that all lacked an answer to the main question in my mind, 'what's likely to happen after iran's oil exports are targeted ?' the article seemed to exposed the options naked.

Here's something to ponder: the US would like Iran to give up its enrichment program (which, as long as it is civilian in nature, is not illegal under NPT or IAEA rules).

it all boils down to whether one believes if iran is seeking to build a nuclear weapon. if they do, any enrichment program is dangerous.

i happened to believe they did not intend until recently (2008-09). but now they do and only maneuver for time. i don't blame iran however, i blame the us for mismanaging its iran policies. let's not forget that it was the us who first introduced both the nuclear material and the nuclear technology to iran. somehow it became a bad thing 40 years after the us pioneered the 'sin'. we also need to keep in mind that those who were determined to acquire nuclear weapons, never joined the NPT and thus stupidly exposing themselves to inspections. iran did which means the goal changed midroad. i keep the us mismanagement responsible. much much more is to be said...