World Politics

[auscyclefan94]

English? Not that I remember.

History and legal studies? Definitely.

Girls I know who became English teachers? Definitely left leaning.

My macro tutors at uni were the local Bathurst high school economics teachers. All right leaning. They taught economics the way it is. As a science. Marketing was taught as an offshoot of economics. Studying economics, well one thing became clear. There is a right and wrong way to do things. Labor's policies almost always were wrong in terms of subject context and application and thus we had a good chuckle at some former treasurers. Namely Paul Keating thinking printing more money would lower inflation. I think it must have been comedy central there whilst Swan was Treasurer. I can imagine all the laughing now.

That kid I mentioned in my reply to movingtarget, I suggested he hop in a car, head to CSU and simply sit in on a macro lecture or two and learn something. Had no reply to that. Too busy following what mummy and daddy have implanted in his brain from day one. He also did not like me suggesting the local high school teachers were left leaning. They were bad, but tolerable when I was in year 12, now...like I said. Private school for kids is the way to go.

BTW Monash Uni is not the best uni in Australia. No Victorian Uni is.

English certainly has become left-wing. Many of the current texts are on very left-wing issues such as Aboriginals, asylum seekers, war, etc which have a cultural left-wing view on them. The Economists pre-GFC certainly would have been more right leaning/followed the neo-classical school of economics. However, many of current economics tutors and lecturers are slightly more pro Keynesian economics now, which has obviously failed continually.

I didn't go to Monash University, I went to Melbourne ;-)

 

[darwin553]

English certainly has become left-wing. Many of the current texts are on very left-wing issues such as Aboriginals, asylum seekers, war, etc which have a cultural left-wing view on them. The Economists pre-GFC certainly would have been more right leaning/followed the neo-classical school of economics. However, many of current economics tutors and lecturers are slightly more pro Keynesian economics now, which has obviously failed continually.

I didn't go to Monash University, I went to Melbourne ;-)

Well I went to Griffith and not UQ up here in Queensland and before uni I was a conservative thinker and still am but the tackling of the left wing agenda that you do do mostly at Griffith with indigenous and immigration being big issues gives you a greater grounding in national and international affairs IMO.

Sorry I should also add that with uni melb having the former griffith v chancellor as their v chancellor it's not exactly the home to aspiring institute of public affairs contributors

 

[Echoes]

There are not that many prime ministers, presidents, chancellors... of important countries (Brazil?) that are female is what i meant.

Perhaps at this moment T but look at recent years (and key ministries)

i think Merkel is a strong leader if only because she will serve 3 terms.

Elections are an indication of power, for you?

Sure she can't withdraw from the EU (due to America as you say) but her party does not have that as a political view anyways/

Aggravating circumstance.

Germany could do a lot on the Euro policy.

Since when can a vassal do something and not the suzerain? The EU commission and ECB decide (with the USA behind). Not Merkel. She's submissive.

She approved of Papandreou's referendum while the EU said no! Has there been any referendum in Greece? No, there hasn't.

I know too about their union/ agree with your point somewhat.

So? Do you realize how much power the EU commission and the ECB have over all Euro nations?

Germany is not doing well at the moment, right? We should all realize that. The EU's libertarian policy is eventually going to sink Germany and the rest of us afterwards.

(by the way I apologize for the aggressive tone, last post, Greenedge. Reading Python's post made me mad, while it's not your fault.)

 

[thrawn]

This. Spot on.

I agree as well. The idea of funding industries over a decade long that can no support themselves is simply absurd. Cut the funding and either reduce taxes or put the money towards something useful.



The Federal Department of Education does not run an educational institution. It does not run TAFE's and while you could have specifically a department for Tertiary Education, it would only look after Universities and would be no way near the size the current Department of Education is. I would not abolish state governments, they can run services better than at a centralised level of government. Give the money to the states and let them direct the resources to the areas that are needed.

Teachers are definitely brainwashing kids. Blind Freddy can tell you that the Education system is full of left-wing teachers. Whether it be in History, English, Legal Studies, Science or almost any other class, it is veiled in a left-wing ideology. I don't know what you studied but you must have been pretty blind and/or deaf not to notice that Universities as well were/still are marinated in leftist BS. I certainly did not go to a **** Uni, I went to the best Uni in Australia.

I am happy with some of the cuts Labor made, but the Labor Government still spent and planned on spending on some ridiculous programs that were going to have little effect on the productivity or well-being of this country. They were a terrible government.

There's a significant difference between showing bias and brainwashing though. Could you be specific in identifying what kids are being brainwashed to think?

I did state in my post that the lecturers I had at university were pretty open with their biases, and yes most were left wing. I don't think they were trying to brainwash us, although they did present their view. Again, most did ask us to challenge their thoughts (provided we could back it up) and not just regurgitate their own opinions back to them.

English certainly has become left-wing. Many of the current texts are on very left-wing issues such as Aboriginals, asylum seekers, war, etc which have a cultural left-wing view on them. The Economists pre-GFC certainly would have been more right leaning/followed the neo-classical school of economics. However, many of current economics tutors and lecturers are slightly more pro Keynesian economics now, which has obviously failed continually.

I didn't go to Monash University, I went to Melbourne ;-)

Since when were Aboriginals a left-wing issue? The Coalition has a pretty reasonable track record on Indigenous issues. Abbott seems to take it pretty seriously, considering he is assuming responsibility of policy in the area.

p.s. Melbourne Uni isn't the best uni in the country either

 

[auscyclefan94]

[snip]
Since when were Aboriginals a left-wing issue? The Coalition has a pretty reasonable track record on Indigenous issues. Abbott seems to take it pretty seriously, considering he is assuming responsibility of policy in the area.

p.s. Melbourne Uni isn't the best uni in the country either

They were a left wing issue because the political left in this country since Keating have made it an issue which is there's and they love to take the moral high ground on the issue. Have a read of the History Wars at Melbourne University over past decades on this issue to see how the lefthave taken this issue as their own and modified history to suit their narrative. It is all the political correctness around this issue which has made it an issue which the Left believe it is their's. However, they would never have the balls to actually take real, tough action to stop these issues happening, unlike the Howard Government. The Left simply think that a referendum, an apology (which should not have happened), Redfern and Native Title are what really matters. All token acts, very little substance.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Well I went to Griffith and not UQ up here in Queensland and before uni I was a conservative thinker and still am but the tackling of the left wing agenda that you do do mostly at Griffith with indigenous and immigration being big issues gives you a greater grounding in national and international affairs IMO.

Sorry I should also add that with uni melb having the former griffith v chancellor as their v chancellor it's not exactly the home to aspiring institute of public affairs contributors

Like I said in my above post, the cultural left ideas on Indigenous issues have been and still are quite prominent at Melbourne University. You might want to take a look at History wars with Geoffrey Blainey to see how fierce the discussion was on such an issue. I think if you walked around Melbourne University today and went inside some of the classrooms, you would see how strong the debate on asylum seekers is and how hard the left fight. Luckily, the actual political left has been badly destroyed on that issue over the past 15-20 years. In general, the political left of the Labor Party has been destroyed since Keating due the Howard Government's movement of Australian politics and social policy specifically to the political right. The Left in the Labor Party are very weak as they lost these discussions so badly.

On your second point, I agree. I don't like Glyn Davis as a Vice Chancellor. He is too close to Kevin Rudd and additionally he has never supported/defended non-left wing political expression on campus.

 

[Cobber]

This. Spot on.

I agree as well. The idea of funding industries over a decade long that can no support themselves is simply absurd. Cut the funding and either reduce taxes or put the money towards something useful.



The Federal Department of Education does not run an educational institution. It does not run TAFE's and while you could have specifically a department for Tertiary Education, it would only look after Universities and would be no way near the size the current Department of Education is. I would not abolish state governments, they can run services better than at a centralised level of government. Give the money to the states and let them direct the resources to the areas that are needed.

Teachers are definitely brainwashing kids. Blind Freddy can tell you that the Education system is full of left-wing teachers. Whether it be in History, English, Legal Studies, Science or almost any other class, it is veiled in a left-wing ideology. I don't know what you studied but you must have been pretty blind and/or deaf not to notice that Universities as well were/still are marinated in leftist BS. I certainly did not go to a **** Uni, I went to the best Uni in Australia.

I am happy with some of the cuts Labor made, but the Labor Government still spent and planned on spending on some ridiculous programs that were going to have little effect on the productivity or well-being of this country. They were a terrible government.

This is one of the dumbest things I've read.....

Do you honestly believe that all teachers are employed to brainwash people with left-wing ideology? Actually, you're probably correct. Teachers are brainwashing people........ to being more informed of facts, not political slogans. To being able to think critically for themselves and not simply regurgitate information force-fed to them by the media. By "brainwashing", you mean "educating", right?

Or maybe you are proposing that somewhere out there, there is a secret leftist organisation that is making sure that educators are only hired on their political beliefs. I work in a university, an nobody asked me if I vote for the Greens during my job interview. But maybe I fell through the cracks.....

 

[Amsterhammer]

A red letter day, people. Circle it on your calendars.

The presidents of the US and Iran spoke directly with each other. It may only have been on the phone, but even this small step was unthinkable a month ago. Anything, no matter how small or insignificant, that contributes to the reduction of tension and hostility, is a very welcome positive step in my book.

 

[Galic Ho]

This is one of the dumbest things I've read.....

Do you honestly believe that all teachers are employed to brainwash people with left-wing ideology? Actually, you're probably correct. Teachers are brainwashing people........ to being more informed of facts, not political slogans. To being able to think critically for themselves and not simply regurgitate information force-fed to them by the media. By "brainwashing", you mean "educating", right?

Or maybe you are proposing that somewhere out there, there is a secret leftist organisation that is making sure that educators are only hired on their political beliefs. I work in a university, an nobody asked me if I vote for the Greens during my job interview. But maybe I fell through the cracks.....

Your clearly have no understanding of the education system.

Infants, primary and secondary school ARE NOT tertiary education. That is a clear lack of understanding on your part.

Universities are packed full of morons who have no natural teaching ability. Some know their subject of expertise, most CANNOT impart knowledge onto others. They exist solely for the purpose of obtaining a research grant or writing some moronic dissertation. A system for the sake of a system. If you had to do a Dip Ed to be a uni lecturer (which if I ever get into parliament YOU WILL) then you'd be amazed at how effective universities would become.

Whilst I know a lot of teachers love their left leaning ideology in high school, all of them, except the math teachers (and the odd science teacher), all of them were natural born teachers. It's their gift. Same with the older generation of primary teachers. I have to really think hard to remember bad teachers from school. University lecturers on the other hand...there are so many it isn't funny. I was having a laugh with a guy I went to uni with at the pub last Saturday after hockey grand finals about the worst one we'd had. Sad story is we're importing these clowns. Well we were...don't know anymore.

Mind you I've had some brilliant lecturers at uni, but as a total % of the population who are in that role, universities have FAR MORE bad eggs than schools did when I was there. That needs to change.

As for Keynesian economics...I think ACF94 doesn't understand the meta structure in work globally. Like I said, if you don't know there are two classical financials systems at work in the western world, then you're way out of your depth. The middle ground, where balance is found, always has the best perspective regarding economics. Might have to do with it being the fulcrum, the balance point.

 

[Cobber]

Your clearly have no understanding of the education system.

Infants, primary and secondary school ARE NOT tertiary education. That is a clear lack of understanding on your part.

Universities are packed full of morons who have no natural teaching ability. Some know their subject of expertise, most CANNOT impart knowledge onto others. They exist solely for the purpose of obtaining a research grant or writing some moronic dissertation. A system for the sake of a system. If you had to do a Dip Ed to be a uni lecturer (which if I ever get into parliament YOU WILL) then you'd be amazed at how effective universities would become.

Whilst I know a lot of teachers love their left leaning ideology in high school, all of them, except the math teachers (and the odd science teacher), all of them were natural born teachers. It's their gift. Same with the older generation of primary teachers. I have to really think hard to remember bad teachers from school. University lecturers on the other hand...there are so many it isn't funny. I was having a laugh with a guy I went to uni with at the pub last Saturday after hockey grand finals about the worst one we'd had. Sad story is we're importing these clowns. Well we were...don't know anymore.

Mind you I've had some brilliant lecturers at uni, but as a total % of the population who are in that role, universities have FAR MORE bad eggs than schools did when I was there. That needs to change.

As for Keynesian economics...I think ACF94 doesn't understand the meta structure in work globally. Like I said, if you don't know there are two classical financials systems at work in the western world, then you're way out of your depth. The middle ground, where balance is found, always has the best perspective regarding economics. Might have to do with it being the fulcrum, the balance point.

You missed the point of my post

 

[gooner]

A red letter day, people. Circle it on your calendars.

The presidents of the US and Iran spoke directly with each other. It may only have been on the phone, but even this small step was unthinkable a month ago. Anything, no matter how small or insignificant, that contributes to the reduction of tension and hostility, is a very welcome positive step in my book.

Very welcome indeed and I watched Rouhani's interview with Christiane Amanpour and found it refreshing looking at it. Netanyahu is coming to the White House on Monday and it will be interesting to see what he makes of it.

 

[darwin553]

Mind you I've had some brilliant lecturers at uni, but as a total % of the population who are in that role, universities have FAR MORE bad eggs than schools did when I was there. That needs to change.

Have you ever wondered why that seems to be the case that there are more "bad eggs" than "good eggs" within the teaching ranks at university? Could it be because they couldn't hack it in the real world and would rather leech of the public purse through grants and the such?

Also, the old saying with university pay packets vs. corporate pay packets - 'pay peanuts, get monkeys'...

 

[Galic Ho]

Have you ever wondered why that seems to be the case that there are more "bad eggs" than "good eggs" within the teaching ranks at university? Could it be because they couldn't hack it in the real world and would rather leech of the public purse through grants and the such?

Also, the old saying with university pay packets vs. corporate pay packets - 'pay peanuts, get monkeys'...

Agreed.

10 char



But also consider what thrawn says below. Forcing lecturers to do a Dip Ed would weed out the bad ones and yes, there are bad ones who have horrible dissertations. They fit your definition and mine. Nice enough people...but their function at universities is to drain cash and burn time.

 

[Galic Ho]

You missed the point of my post

Fair enough then.

Was just adding my two cents. It's not going to change diddly squat in the education system Down Under at any rate. That whole thing is one giant mess in need of a massive fix.

 

[thrawn]

Have you ever wondered why that seems to be the case that there are more "bad eggs" than "good eggs" within the teaching ranks at university? Could it be because they couldn't hack it in the real world and would rather leech of the public purse through grants and the such?

Also, the old saying with university pay packets vs. corporate pay packets - 'pay peanuts, get monkeys'...

No Galic is on the money with this. Some university lecturers, who can be brilliant in their own fields make for lousy teachers. Lecturers are not required to go under any formal training in education or teaching. Subsequently, most do not. Making them do a DipEd before being allowed to teach at university would solve a lot of the problems.

 

[Echoes]

A red letter day, people. Circle it on your calendars.

The presidents of the US and Iran spoke directly with each other. It may only have been on the phone, but even this small step was unthinkable a month ago. Anything, no matter how small or insignificant, that contributes to the reduction of tension and hostility, is a very welcome positive step in my book.

Typically liberal discourse.

Rebel when it suits you but when it matters, always swears allegiance to whom it must: the USA.

Personally, I love tension and hostility !

 

[Cobber]

Fair enough then.

Was just adding my two cents. It's not going to change diddly squat in the education system Down Under at any rate. That whole thing is one giant mess in need of a massive fix.

My point was that ACF was saying everyone in the education system in Australia is left wing. I was subtly trying to imply that maybe it's just more likely that highly educated people are left wing, because they are more likely to understand the nuances of complex problems, and that they can't be distilled into simple campaign slogans that appeal to the masses.

To your point, the problem with the tertiary system in Australia is that lecturers are hired for their research, but they also have to teach. Running a research program is a full time job, and teaching should be a full time job. However, when forced to prioritize, teaching is almost always going to lose out to research commitments. The solution is to hire dedicated lecturers for teaching, and dedicated researchers for researching. But that would require an increase in funding to tertiary education, not cuts as were passed by Labor and likely to be continued (or expanded) under the LNP.

Oh well, at least we're not in the US, where the house GOP are about to shut down government because they don't want people to have healthcare, but that belongs in a different forum.

 

[Cobber]

Have you ever wondered why that seems to be the case that there are more "bad eggs" than "good eggs" within the teaching ranks at university? Could it be because they couldn't hack it in the real world and would rather leech of the public purse through grants and the such?

Also, the old saying with university pay packets vs. corporate pay packets - 'pay peanuts, get monkeys'...

And by this rationale, everyone in finance should work on Wall Street, every scientist should work for a pharmaceutical company, and every cyclist should ride for BMC. The only people in Australia should be those that work for mining companies.

Clearly the education system has failed this one.......

 

[darwin553]

Forcing lecturers to do a Dip Ed would weed out the bad ones and yes, there are bad ones who have horrible dissertations.

See I don't think I am in favour of this.

The practical aspect of a Dip Ed only gives you maybe a month's worth of exposure or work experience to the actual teaching part of the job which, if going for a tutor or lecturer job, can pretty much be observed on the job at a uni anyway through the sitting in of a few tutorials/lectures before you go it alone.

Also, the other aspect of doing a Dip Ed which is the gaining of a base knowledge in a specific field should have already been obtained if they have degree qualifications in the area that they wish to teach.

 

[darwin553]

My point was that ACF was saying everyone in the education system in Australia is left wing. I was subtly trying to imply that maybe it's just more likely that highly educated people are left wing, because they are more likely to understand the nuances of complex problems, and that they can't be distilled into simple campaign slogans that appeal to the masses.

Thanks for that. Now we know which side of the political fence you sit

To your point, the problem with the tertiary system in Australia is that lecturers are hired for their research, but they also have to teach. Running a research program is a full time job, and teaching should be a full time job. However, when forced to prioritize, teaching is almost always going to lose out to research commitments. The solution is to hire dedicated lecturers for teaching, and dedicated researchers for researching. But that would require an increase in funding to tertiary education, not cuts as were passed by Labor and likely to be continued (or expanded) under the LNP.

And from all reports that I hear from the faculty that used to teach me, it will only get worse as these cut backs mean that researchers/senior faculty staff have to take on more of a teaching role (do the lectures and tutorials) as there is less funding available to hire additional course program staff such as assistant lecturers or casual tutors. (this may or may not be such a bad thing if you view the lecturers/tutors as incompetent or not)

 

[Cobber]

Thanks for that. Now we know which side of the political fence you sit



And from all reports that I hear from the faculty that used to teach me, it will only get worse as these cut backs mean that researchers/senior faculty staff have to take on more of a teaching role (do the lectures and tutorials) as there is less funding available to hire additional course program staff such as assistant lecturers or casual tutors. (this may or may not be such a bad thing if you view the lecturers/tutors as incompetent or not)

Correct! Which also has an affect on research output. The solution is to hire lecturers whose primary job is to lecture, not to do research. This is how university teaching is handled in US institutions, and there are even post-doctoral fellowships that are teaching focused in the US. A DipEd for university lecturers, if you like. However, hiring dedicated teaching staff costs money, and as a result, tuition fees are higher in the US.

 

[darwin553]

Do you honestly believe that all teachers are employed to brainwash people with left-wing ideology?

I can't speak for primary and secondary school as it's been awhile since I was there but I don't remember that was the case. However, lecturers and tutors at university is a different kettle of fish. I didn't mind it as I was very much set in my political ways before I attended university and as it brought in the opposite views I just felt that it gave me more balance and perspective on certain issues; in particular social justice issues.

But it's not just the teachers that are pursuing political agendas at universities, it is the schools and faculties within the university themselves that have got particular political points of views that they would like to teach the students about. Before I enrolled I didn't realise the extent of the liberal agenda at my former university but it was alright because I could handle it. However, for the ignorant and nonchalant high school students that are looking to enrol out there I would hope that the students' parents, if they are aware of their child's political persuasions, would be able to impart some wisdom on them as to what would be the best choice of university to match their political beliefs.

 

[darwin553]

Correct! Which also has an affect on research output. The solution is to hire lecturers whose primary job is to lecture, not to do research. This is how university teaching is handled in US institutions, and there are even post-doctoral fellowships that are teaching focused in the US. A DipEd for university lecturers, if you like. However, hiring dedicated teaching staff costs money, and as a result, tuition fees are higher in the US.

And if they get paid to solely lecture and not research, what will happen to the credibility of the lecturer to teach and in turn the university itself to offer the courses if the lecturers aren't writing the journal articles/textbooks which contributes to one of the main purposes of a university in the first place which is to be an institute of research to assist public policy and the like?

 

[Galic Ho]

See I don't think I am in favour of this.

The practical aspect of a Dip Ed only gives you maybe a month's worth of exposure or work experience to the actual teaching part of the job which, if going for a tutor or lecturer job, can pretty much be observed on the job at a uni anyway through the sitting in of a few tutorials/lectures before you go it alone.

Also, the other aspect of doing a Dip Ed which is the gaining of a base knowledge in a specific field should have already been obtained if they have degree qualifications in the area that they wish to teach.

This all comes down to a topic I learnt at university in my favourite subject Accounting Theory.

The topic is contract theory. If you understand the premise behind this and mix it with basic psychology fathoming what is wrong with tertiary education is simple. Degrees exist to attract revenue. Most are not worth the paper they are printed on and the actual legal loopholes that existed in the official paperwork a decade ago and probably still do was mind boggling. Universities do not care. They lie to attract numbers and feign consideration. The university I went to was so pathetic in their practices you could be downgraded from a HD to a Cr simply because that's how they rolled...your avenue to appeal? None. They don't give your actual marks out.

No regulation, just a place running on rep. Heck my mate topped the first degree I studied. Grade point average of 6.91 and first class honours. He failed a subject and they ALLOWED him to retake a final exam worth 70%. Mind you it was arguably the hardest subject at that university (Dynamics) but the system is not fair.

You have a bunch of people who are brown nosing and suck-up walking cliches pandering to a few quasi intellectuals who should not be anywhere near a class. You know the boring monotone idiots who take prejudice against anyone at the drop of a hat? Yeah those types. They apply for a job and get it because a piece of paper says they're qualified. In practice, the bulk of their job...imparting knowledge, that never happens. Dip Ed, a full year, it makes you ready. Or you realise it isn't for you. You can tell the natural born teachers...it's their passion. The rest are there to get paid. I were their boss, well I can pick them easily. I wouldn't hire them regardless of what their qualifications are. The students, the revenue source DESERVE to be taught well. Not like my aforementioned friend who after topping a subject, 3-6 months later remembered sweet ****** all about the content.

I could go on for this for days...put it this way. My first degree was a first for Australia and I was in the first year. They've changed the content subject wise MASSIVELY. The structure, which was wrong, when we complained about it, we were told to SHUT UP. Years later they changed all of it because we were right.

That is the problem though. Most people won't admit certain universities are crap. There are a lot. Others have certain schools within them that suck. Dip Ed is not about gaining knowledge...that part is needed theoretically wise, but the core is the ability to transfer and impart that knowledge concisely, clearly, without bias or confusion. You need specific training for that OR a natural gift. Most intellectual types lack the neuron configuration in their brain to do so. Just listen to them talk to other people and interact...that's the tell.

 

[Galic Ho]

But it's not just the teachers that are pursuing political agendas at universities, it is the schools and faculties within the university themselves that have got particular political points of views that they would like to teach the students about. Before I enrolled I didn't realise the extent of the liberal agenda at my former university but it was alright because I could handle it. However, for the ignorant and nonchalant high school students that are looking to enrol out there I would hope that the students' parents, if they are aware of their child's political persuasions, would be able to impart some wisdom on them as to what would be the best choice of university to match their political beliefs.

This. Nobody, not a single person I know was honest about the university I attended. Most lied or sadly, were too naive and ignorant to know what was really going on.

My sister, her boyfriend and I are all in strong agreement. Their two daughters, when they reach the age to go to uni, even though the one we went to is local, they even live in the town it's in, they will be told go to Sydney or else where. The standard is just not good enough.