World Politics

[Von Mises]

Peaceful protesters in Slavjansk in eastern Ukraine. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MFBmG3cbvw
They just happened to be very well armed and equipped. On saturday same peaceful protesters (same way very well equipped) seized different buildings in 6 different eastern Ukraine citizens.
Extremely spontaneous indeed. Pure coincidence that they are dresssed, armed and equpped identically, that they act in same time and same manner.

 

[blutto]

forgive me quoting myself, but i just gave a listen to the same france 24 channel - absolutely clearly the same report, except the correspondent said he spoke to 4 local policemen. absolutely the same impression - they are with the locals, with the protesters against the kiev putsch govt.

perhaps the french correspondent is the paid kgb agent...anyone wishing to check on their own, his name (if i heard it right and did not misspell) oliver craig (?)

...could be the glorious revolution has acknowledged the reality on the ground ( as in beyond some fascist thugs they don't have much institutional military sway ) and moving to Plan B....?....

"

Kiev (AFP) - Ukraine's interim president on Monday signalled support for a national referendum on turning the ex-Soviet republic into a federation with broader rights for its heavily Russified east.

Pro-Kremlin militias who have seized government buildings in regions such as Donetsk are demanding local referendums on either broader local rights or an option to join the Russian Federation.

Acting President Oleksandr Turchynov stopped well short of giving in to these demands by signalling support for a national referendum on Ukraine's future status -- a vote whose outcome is far less certain because most in Kiev and the Ukrainian speaking west reject the idea of federalisation.

Turchynov suggested that the national vote could coincide with snap presidential polls that Ukraine is set to hold on May 25 following the February ouster of Russian-backed president Viktor Yanukovych."

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/ukraine-leader-signals-support-national-referendum-status-092816358.html

Cheers

 

[python]

...could be the glorious revolution has acknowledged the reality on the ground ( as in beyond some fascist thugs they don't have much institutional military sway ) and moving to Plan B....?....

i dont think the kiev puppets have ANY contingency plans b/c their puppet masters in washington don't...they only respond like a broken record with the same, tired bombastic threats vlad ignored as a useless noise as he's implementing his plan b...

the case in point are the very 2 latest developments... of course you wont find it in the glorious free american media because it contradicts their govt lies.

take a look at the pic below. it is a copy from the ultra-right, pro-putsch site unian

just hours ago, a crowd of angry protesters seized another police office in the town of gorlovka. mind you, all while the draconian ultimatum against them is in force !

i cant find a single fire weapon on those protesters.

and in another ominous development for the putschists and their mindless american sponsors... 2 hours ago, a crowd of protesters in odessa (take a look at my post above where i predicted this) started to move towards the odessa sea port where an american military vessel is anchored off-shore. they are mad about the us role and provocations.

even the kgb could not come up with the better ploy for the glorious revolution.

obama and and kerry are amateurs diplomats if not the complete idiots

 

[Von Mises]

take a look at the pic below. it is a copy from the ultra-right, pro-putsch site unian

Yes, Unian is ultra right and its owner Gennadi Bogoljubov is well-known nazi. I guess it doesnt matter that Bogoljubov is jew and president of Ukrainian local jewish organization, if Kremlin propaganda says that he is driving a ultra-right nazi conpiracy, then it has to be true.

i dont think the kiev puppets have ANY contingency plans b/c their puppet masters in washington don'[/U]

No, no, no. Puppet masters are not in Washington. Havent you seen news?. Here is Dmitri Kiselev, the most popular news anchor in Russia nd friend of Vladimir Putin. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qnt1rNEI6y4

Here he explains that protests in Kiev were organized by Sweden. By Kiselev, Sweden wants revenge for battle of Poltava (it happened in 1709, Sweden lost to Russia in Poltava). + Sweden is a land of sexual perverts, I do not get it exactlu, but somehow it is very important for Kiselev to point out.

So, leave Washington alone, puppet masters are sexual perverts from Sweden. Kremlin says so, it must be true.

 

[Von Mises]

http://echo.msk.ru/news/1294132-echo.html

Russian senator Igor Morozov warns that if EU does not stop critizising, then Russia will withdraw from treaties concerning human rights and also will restore death penalty.

Way to go, lets rip our own people off human rights and lets start kill them again.

 

[python]

...i will continue to ignore the useless babble as i dont give a fork regarding the ethnicity or religious inclinations of various servants of the glorious revolution...

i've read enough crap from various scoundrels and their ' sources' to ignore who they say they are as opposed to what they say and publish...the political prostitutes and sellouts know the smell of money and only money.

so, the same ultra-nationalist, pro-putsch source has now reported that the kiev putschists ( who kept issuing one ultimatum after another) are now requesting the united nations cooperation in the..... 'anti-terror operation in eastern Ukraine'. more objective sources refer to a request for a peacekeeping mission.

i guess too many local policemen went to side of protesters...

 

[Buffalo Soldier]

http://echo.msk.ru/news/1294132-echo.html

Russian senator Igor Morozov warns that if EU does not stop critizising, then Russia will withdraw from treaties concerning human rights and also will restore death penalty.

Way to go, lets rip our own people off human rights and lets start kill them again.

I can't imagine US would allow countries to restore death penalty

On the other hand, I also couldn't imagine people taking this armed bunch for protesters, but apparently some do:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmxBjsU2rig

 

[blutto]

http://echo.msk.ru/news/1294132-echo.html

Russian senator Igor Morozov warns that if EU does not stop critizising, then Russia will withdraw from treaties concerning human rights and also will restore death penalty.

Way to go, lets rip our own people off human rights and lets start kill them again.

...well, the good news is that it would put Russia on the same level as the Gold Standard on such matters, The Shiny City on the Hill, the US of A...very surprised you aren't celebrating that potential development with a happy dance...

Cheers

 

[python]

On the other hand, I also couldn't imagine people taking this armed bunch for protesters, but apparently some do:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmxBjsU2rig

since you insist on seeing the peaceful, unarmed protesters, here they are...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JmyLmPZjCQ

this was the peaceful gathering of civilians that PRECEDED the takeover by several armed men you were concerned with.

that clip (#10) is from the same series of clips you linked to, depicting the take over of the kramotorsk police station.

i am hardly surprised by their arms and tactics...you know glorious revolutions tend to give birth to counterrevolution. both, as vlad illich said, have to know how to protect themselves to survive...

btw, those overweight, elderly men with guns would hardly make out in any special forces of any army, much less the elite russian soldiers on a special mission to create revolts...

but i will give you, they are almost certainly former military men who know how to use weapons.

 

[python]

a whole bunch of interesting developments has taken place in the last few hours...too many to seek out and provide the individual links...

- the latest in kiev : 2-3 hrs ago several hundreds of the ultra-right activists from the right sector (some called them neo-nazis ) gathered around the ukrainian parliament building threatening to storm it. they demand the resignation of the current provisional president (turchinov) for being too soft on the demonstrators in the south east.

- america officially admitted (hello von mises ) that the cia chief indeed visited kiev last weekend. of course they deny he blessed the ultimatum. i wonder how the ultimatum was possible several hours after the cia chief visit ?...did the putschists dare to go against the will of it's chief supporter ? common sense is common sense - they would have not dared. the ukrainians are 'slow' slavs, not the saakashvili's hot tempered georgians...

-american military has reported today that the russian military attack plane flew 12 times over the american military vessel currently stationed in the black sea off russia's coast...they insisted the russian pilot ignored the mutually negotiated rules of conduct by being too aggressive. they neglected to explain what the fork was this vessel doing in the black sea ? if it was sent to intimidate the russkies, then the russkies sent a message they were not scared. if it was there to 'boost the allies', then it it is a shear stupidly considering the local superiority of the russians if they took an issue with the 'boost'. besides, wasn't it nato that broke off relations 'sanctioning' russia ? it sure was nato...but then why to whine about the russians behaving beyond the negotiated basis ? you want war, be ready for war. simple. frankly, if i was the russian commander, i'd shoot a missile into that american ship - seriously - except i'd load a bag of sand into the business end of that missile. the soviets once did it to a nato ship to never see them again off their northern naval base of murmansk.

- given all the above developments,
(revised a typo: it was vlad who called obama)

 

[del1962]

You sound like Putin's pr man

 

[python]

you sound like a blind and deaf man

 

[del1962]

http://echo.msk.ru/news/1294132-echo.html

Russian senator Igor Morozov warns that if EU does not stop critizising, then Russia will withdraw from treaties concerning human rights and also will restore death penalty.

Way to go, lets rip our own people off human rights and lets start kill them again.

Strange one from the Russians, if you euro's don't stop criticing us we are going to repress our own people more, they have the man to do it in the former KGB man Putin, I expect he is looking for those Gulag plans, he needs somewhere to transport the "Ukranian troublemakers" to.

 

[del1962]

you sound like a blind and deaf man

Don't worry even a blind and deaf man can see what is going on in the Ukraine, what is your excuse for be so badly misinformed though

 

[python]

my excuse is that i stay away from listening to ignorants like you and do my own research. much was shared here. if i happened to see american hypocrisy in almost everything taking place in ukraine, it is hardly mine problem. but if you want to engage in the informed discussion, please proceed and i will engage you. you seem unable to beyond the simplistic tags..

 

[Von Mises]

i just watched the france24 news report...and could not quite believe my ears at how the coverage tone changed !

France24 reports funny detail from Kharkiv (major city in Ukraine) how "local" self defense forces mistook city theater for town hall.
Locals? Sure, it is perfectly normal that locals do not now where is theater and where is town hall. They have to be locals if python and Kremlin say so.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

...well, the shooting has started in eastern Ukraine....here is a report from one of the major media outlets....be interesting to find out what actually happened because a report on CBC radio this morning, while reporting the official account, also reported that eye-witnesses had stories that were diametrically opposite to the official reports....a false flag?....whose false flag?...were American or other mercs involved?....were Russian troops involved?...does anyone actually have a plan or is it just the brain-dead fascist element raising $hyte hoping good things will magically happen...

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/ukraine-special-forces-sent-eastern-city-retake-buildings-082049113.html

Cheers

Yep, like the guy said, the CIA is behind the supra national, anti Russia conspiracy..hello???

WhereTF is Europe? Germany, France? The old war horse, McCain says let's arm the Ukranians, 'for god's sake'...why the USA??

Oh, wait, Gas supplies...Time for Europe to step up, find their own natural gas and get off the Russian teat.

 

[del1962]

my excuse is that i stay away from listening to ignorants like you and do my own research. much was shared here. if i happened to see american hypocrisy in almost everything taking place in ukraine, it is hardly mine problem. but if you want to engage in the informed discussion, please proceed and i will engage you. you seem unable to beyond the simplistic tags..

It probably is the root of your problems

Am I Amercan? No
Do I think that America has lots of problems? Hell yes, lack of medical care, to much poverty, lack of gun control to name a few
Do I think America or any other nation is to blame for all that is wrong in the world? No
Is Amerca behind Ukraines problems? Hell no, but it may be in the mind of the arch conspiracy seeker.

Let me put it this way

If in most of Europe, you say your government stinks, you will probably be ignored
If in the US, you say your govenrment stinks, there will be a few patriots who slag you off
If in Russia you say your governemnt stinks, beware one of Vlads men knocking on the door.

 

[Buffalo Soldier]

America might not be behind Ukraine's problems, it's definitely an important actor.

 

[Ferminal]

Amazing what retirement does for the IQ.

No revolving doors for him

 

[aphronesis]

It probably is the root of your problems

Am I Amercan? No
Do I think that America has lots of problems? Hell yes, lack of medical care, to much poverty, lack of gun control to name a few
Do I think America or any other nation is to blame for all that is wrong in the world? No
Is Amerca behind Ukraines problems? Hell no, but it may be in the mind of the arch conspiracy seeker.

Let me put it this way

If in most of Europe, you say your government stinks, you will probably be ignored
If in the US, you say your govenrment stinks, there will be a few patriots who slag you off
If in Russia you say your governemnt stinks, beware one of Vlads men knocking on the door.

The difference between your last two claims is narrower than you might think. Depending on the context of say.....

 

[Von Mises]

i am hardly surprised by their arms and tactics...you know glorious revolutions tend to give birth to counterrevolution. both, as vlad illich said, have to know how to protect themselves to survive...

Indeed, indeed. All these people of Maidan, despite massive support from NATO and America and despite the fact that they had 4 months to prepare, at the end they still had sticks and stones. Wow, how powerful of America, they were providing stones...

But all these spontaneous self-defense units in eastern Ukraine, heavily armed and equipped. Carrying RPG-30s (used only in Russain armed forces), carrying RPK machine guns - sure, you can buy them from every shop etc etc.

Like these guys... oops, at 3:25 he admits that he is actually from Russian military forces...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0Z8ymyhx8A


Or these guys yesterday from city of Gorlovka (Eastern Ukraine)... Oops, man giving orders to locals indetifies himself as Russian colonel.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DinMf_7dQK4

Or this from Donetsk, Eastern Ukraine.
Russian radio station is talking with commander of "local" self-defense units. Oops, little blunder in the middle of the interview, man says that he is not from Donetsk, but from Russia. (They understand a blunder, panick a bit, from the background you can hear how microphone is grabbed and talking stops).

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10152340479423766


And so on and so on and so on...

 

[Von Mises]

It probably is the root of your problems

Am I Amercan? No
Do I think that America has lots of problems? Hell yes, lack of medical care, to much poverty, lack of gun control to name a few
Do I think America or any other nation is to blame for all that is wrong in the world? No
Is Amerca behind Ukraines problems? Hell no, but it may be in the mind of the arch conspiracy seeker.

Let me put it this way

If in most of Europe, you say your government stinks, you will probably be ignored
If in the US, you say your govenrment stinks, there will be a few patriots who slag you off
If in Russia you say your governemnt stinks, beware one of Vlads men knocking on the door.

Beware? You are too soft. Killing critical journalist (or at best firing them) and jailin opoosition politicians is normal practice in Putins Russia.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Yeah Von Mises... You are the one...

Everybody blaming the US imperialists and EU for the situation in Ukraine are CTs. The informed poster you are, you own the truth via MSM and youtube. Not that USA would also engage in propaganda wars, hell no... They are the good guys, the peacekeepers.

I thought del1962 and buffalo soldier (who at least sees that the USA is to blame too) were hitting a low point. But you best them all... Are you from Wyoming or something like this? Learning the world as some kind of Garp sees it (trou youtube & Fox News)...

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

It probably is the root of your problems

Am I Amercan? No
Do I think that America has lots of problems? Hell yes, lack of medical care, to much poverty, lack of gun control to name a few
Do I think America or any other nation is to blame for all that is wrong in the world? No
Is Amerca behind Ukraines problems? Hell no, but it may be in the mind of the arch conspiracy seeker.

Let me put it this way

If in most of Europe, you say your government stinks, you will probably be ignored
If in the US, you say your govenrment stinks, there will be a few patriots who slag you off
If in Russia you say your governemnt stinks, beware one of Vlads men knocking on the door.

Let me correct some important details of your one sided POV:

Do I think America or any other nation is to blame for all that is wrong in the world? No
Correction; Yes for basically every country they entered in the name of freedom & democracy (in reality: freedom of free markets owned by a few, to suck the natives to death), they left behind torched earth. And there are a "hell" lot of countries, to use your saying.

Is Amerca behind Ukraines problems? Hell no, but it may be in the mind of the arch conspiracy seeker.
Correction; Hell yes! But may be not for those who solely believe the western MSM, which are in the hands of 200 rich families (source; Scholl-Latour and others).

If in most of Europe, you say your government stinks, you will probably be ignored
Correction; Depends who you pi§§ on. If you go directly vs the owners of god (in the capitalism money that is; whom owners stand behind the politic puppets) you easily end up in jail or at least in a psychatric clinic (see for example Mollath in Germany).
If in the US, you say your govenrment stinks, there will be a few patriots who slag you off
Correction; Or end up in jail if you go to far; see for example Manning and Snowden (if he was back in the USA).
If in Russia you say your governemnt stinks, beware one of Vlads men knocking on the door
Correction; Certainly true, but OTOH, USA uses 3rd parties to do their dirty jobs vs critics; see Guantanamo, drones war, rendition program, etc.
That is cowardly. Don´t make your hands dirty, tell the world you are the bringer of freedom & democracy, but behind the scenes, be the one of the worst bastereds as they come in the 3rd world.

So you are in some way correct with your simplistic POV of the beautiful west:
If you work from 9-7, be a handsome yes-man, you go trou the whole mess unscathed. But let me enlighten you: If you behave the same way in Russia, you´ll also make it trou pretty much unharmed...