World Politics

[blackcat]

Re:

it has less to do with the fatwa that was rescinded by the shia ayatollah in iran, (on rushdie), than the salafi wahhabi organisations that are the vanguard of the terrorist asymmetrical strike.

the context is more to do with the West's adventures in mesopotamia and afghanistan and managing to pass of islam as the sole cause. and like the Germans said communists as code for jews, when the West talks of terrorism, they talk in code for muslims.

Sorry Blackcat, I know you spout a load of garbage much of the time, but this statement is as detatched from the west I live in as I have seen from you, and I don't believe it is that much different down under than the uk.

does anyone else like to "second" del 1962's assertion?

indeed, I stand by my position, just like the Third Reich and Hitler "othered" a certain section of society, with demagogy and vile ends, the West is indeed "othering" western muslims when they speak is coded terms for "terrorism". It does not surprise me that demagogy is as successful today as it once was. Oh, I still dont like the clerics, but I dont mind the people.

 

[python]

Re: Re:

it has less to do with the fatwa that was rescinded by the shia ayatollah in iran, (on rushdie), than the salafi wahhabi organisations that are the vanguard of the terrorist asymmetrical strike.

the context is more to do with the West's adventures in mesopotamia and afghanistan and managing to pass of islam as the sole cause. and like the Germans said communists as code for jews, when the West talks of terrorism, they talk in code for muslims.

Sorry Blackcat, I know you spout a load of garbage much of the time, but this statement is as detatched from the west I live in as I have seen from you, and I don't believe it is that much different down under than the uk.

does anyone else like to "second" del 1962's assertion?

indeed, I stand by my position, just like the Third Reich and Hitler "othered" a certain section of society, with demagogy and vile ends, the West is indeed "othering" western muslims when they speak is coded terms for "terrorism". It does not surprise me that demagogy is as successful today as it once was. Oh, I still dont like the clerics, but I dont mind the people.

no, i dont agree with the dell characterization of your contributions, though, your interpretation of 'code' for germans vs jews and the west vs the muslims, i reckon was an involuntary gross simplification...

if i find time and inspiration i may post later my thoughts on the subject you touched upon later...may also add a comment on john swanson's post about the the new colonialism and the interventionist west which i also find an oversimplification, though, also close to mark.

 

[Echoes]

What a hypo, the Cat, he's the first to do what he's claiming. But yes, the West fantasised Islam in order to better conquer it, that has been so for centuries. It's called Orientalism.

 

[python]

the biggest, most significant news today: the successful conclusion of the nuclear negotiations with iran...israel, no doubt, hates the deal but knew it was coming.

i just read the publicly available summary of the deal:
http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-bu ... 531?page=2

one important thing that jumps at you is the deal is preliminary. yet to be filled with details.

another thing that i found MOST curious: the iran's capability to acquire enough fissile material for one weapon was extended from the current 2-3 month to 12 months WTF. seems israel will try to get most mileage out of this one.

who has gained here: the hell bent muslims or the 'civilized world' ?

 

[blackcat]

Re:

the biggest, most significant news today: the successful conclusion of the nuclear negotiations with iran...israel, no doubt, hates the deal but knew it was coming.

depends the definition of Israel.

Netanyahu and the far-right quasi fascist parties. Yep.

The more liberal part of the state and the people, no. But Netanyahu as the spokesman and chief, he hates it no doubt.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Re: Re:

"BREAKING"

Iraqi PM Al Abadi announces "liberation" of Tikrit.

About time the Iraqi army cowards step up to protect their own country, even if they are supported by the Iran revolutionary guard. The U.S. gave them everything they needed to fight ISIL, money, training, equipment, everything but a backbone. It's an Arab conflict, let those in the neighborhood fix it.

British Mandate and the Ottoman Empire. Look them up. There never was a homogenous country called country called Iraq until a bunch of white guys arbitrarily drew borders encompassing Asyrians, Kurds, Shia and others. All through this period the different groups did try to assert their independence but were ruthlessly crushed by an imposed Hashemite monarchy. And this was only a few generations ago, so don't think anyone in that area of the world has forgotten.

By virtue of smashing modern day Iraq into bits, the US has inadvertently allowed these groups to become independent and begin to fight for the nations that really should have existed in the first place.

Doesn't really fit your narrative of the middle east as a bunch of cowardly, backwards idiots, does it?

John Swanson

Don't care if the country formerly known as 'Iraq' ends up being 3 or 4 states, each a sect, a political idea, Shite, Sunni Kurd, Bath, whatever. Fine and dandy, but if threatened, like they were by a wee, aggressive force called ISIS/ISIL, whatever..either fight or bend over..locals, not the US, even if Bush 2 create this mess.

Actually, it does.

 

[TourOfSardinia]

Italy's new minister for Public Works Delrio arrives for his first day in the job!

 

[Amsterhammer]

(Reuters) - Islamic State has taken control of 90 percent of a Palestinian refugee camp on the Damascus outskirts where 18,000 civilians have suffered years of bombing, army siege and militia control, a monitoring group said on Saturday.

The hardline group's offensive in Yarmouk gives it a major presence in the capital. Islamic State, the most powerful insurgent group in Syria, is now only a few kilometers from President Bashar al-Assad's seat of power.

The United Nations has said it is extremely concerned about the safety and protection of Syrians and Palestinians in the camp. Civilians trapped there have long suffered a government siege that has led to starvation and disease.

"The situation in Yarmouk is an affront to the humanity of all of us, a source of universal shame," U.N. Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA) spokesman Chris Gunness said.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/04/ ... 8520150404

Assad and Hezbollah vs. ISIS and Al-Nusra.

 

[hrotha]

That's an oversimplification, I'd say. The Al-Nusra Front is, for the most part, at odds with ISIS, and they've fought often.

 

[python]

why is isis advancing at all...in any direction

we've been told the isis barbarians had been hammered daily with scores of them killed... the air forces of several countries, including the all-powerful united states air force, reported thousands of strikes with the most sophisticated weaponry.

pls help me to sort this out...

- we've been lied to about the successes against isis ?
- the air force geniuses invented a tactic by which isis fights only those 'we' want when we want ?
- the references to the civilian sufferings from isis were conveniently brought up to mask the mess we were told the bombing was supposed to fix, but, in fact multiplied many-fold ?

what did i miss ?

 

[Amsterhammer]

Re:

That's an oversimplification, I'd say. The Al-Nusra Front is, for the most part, at odds with ISIS, and they've fought often.

Very true. Hence it is a matter of some shock and worry to hear that they are working together here.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Re:

why is isis advancing at all...in any direction

we've been told the isis barbarians had been hammered daily with scores of them killed... the air forces of several countries, including the all-powerful united states air force, reported thousands of strikes with the most sophisticated weaponry.

pls help me to sort this out...

- we've been lied to about the successes against isis ?
- the air force geniuses invented a tactic by which isis fights only those 'we' want when we want ?
- the references to the civilian sufferings from isis were conveniently brought up to mask the mess we were told the bombing was supposed to fix, but, in fact multiplied many-fold ?

what did i miss ?

Forces are very diverse, hard to identify from the air. The era of carpet bombing an area is over. Hard to target plus limited intel on the ground..for targeting. As soon as the ISIL leadership is located, expect strikes there, BUT what's needed is Arab boots on the ground to combat these guys. NO conflict will be successful by an air campaign only. The people/nations in the neighborhood, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Iraq, Iran, Kuwait..need to step up and confront these guys but lots of conflicts among 'like' Muslim sects..Sunnis battling 'fellow' sunnis type crap.

 

[Amsterhammer]

Re:

why is isis advancing at all...in any direction

we've been told the isis barbarians had been hammered daily with scores of them killed... the air forces of several countries, including the all-powerful united states air force, reported thousands of strikes with the most sophisticated weaponry.

pls help me to sort this out...

- we've been lied to about the successes against isis ?
- the air force geniuses invented a tactic by which isis fights only those 'we' want when we want ?
- the references to the civilian sufferings from isis were conveniently brought up to mask the mess we were told the bombing was supposed to fix, but, in fact multiplied many-fold ?

what did i miss ?

You didn't miss anything. A quick look at a map should tell you that being turned back in Tikrit, and elsewhere on the Iraqi front, as well as being bombed in and around Raqqa, bears no relation to what might be happening in the suburbs of Damascus. Everybody knows by now how mobile these qwunts are, and nobody ever pretended that they would be defeated without the necessary boots on the ground. The question is whose boots go where?

 

[python]

Bustedknuckle:

...BUT what's needed is Arab boots on the ground to combat these guys. NO conflict will be successful by an air campaign only....

agree about the air campaign limited effectiveness w/o the boots on the ground...don't know if more arab boots will help. don't we already have plenty of arabs fighting in syria alone (lets stay with syria b/c the iraqi kettle of warms, though messy enough, is less complex imo).

even if we get 'the right arab boots' (supposedly those supporting pro-west rebels but against assad and his pro-iran allies), where is the guarantee they will neatly continue playing according to the western/american script when done ? plenty of the recent examples - they wont.

let's assume the turks or the jordanians decide to send troops to syria to iradicate isis...it is no brainer, they will do so only if they extract from the us certain conditions that may not agree with the us political-military goals (such as turkish plans for kurds future)

what i am saying - and i am by no measure an expert - we need first clear the eventual goals (remove isis ? remove assad ? weaken iran ? all of them ?) and only then adopt the appropriate strategy. if our goals, as it seems, are "all of the above', we are visibly not succeeding. it is obvious the MILITARY solution in this crazy neighborhood - as was shown by so many examples in iraq, lybia and now kuwait - is making things worse. yet we keep relying on more bombs, bombs - 'only if we had enough boots'

i dont know the solution ! but seeing how we just found the compromise with iran's atom while managing to engage iran's allies (russia and china) and our partners (england, france, germany) i believ the POLITICAL solution is the only one for syria.

we just need to find the balls to accept the region's realities - that is, iran's local interests mostly.

Amsterhammer:

...nobody ever pretended that they would be defeated without the necessary boots on the ground. The question is whose boots go where?...

agree that boots on the ground. yes, it was never assumed to be fast and neat. but as i said above, more boots imo will lead to more suffering for the innocent and NO practical, workable solution. too many recent example for the crazy region...

 

[blackcat]

@python what happens when all the goals of State Dp't and the CIA and the President's Office conflict?

i)need to have external enemy (ISIS/Syria/Iran/Shia islam/Sunni Wahabbi extremismterrorism)
ii)supposedly extolling virtues of "right to protect" doctrine at UN and humanitarian obligations
iii)Israel partnership
iv)Iran bullwark
v)China bullwark
vi)Russia sphere of influence
vii)regime change for compliant gov't (Iraq, libya, to be Lebanon(Hezbollah),Syria/Iran)
viii)keep Strait of Hormuz open and oil shipping lanes free
ix)making sure house of Saud are safe and Jordan hashemites safe. (both re: internal ructions revolution and any potential putsch)

you cant do the enemy of my enemy is my friend, cos it goes very meta, a house of mirrors enemy of my enemy of my enemy of my enemy of my enemy of my enemy of my enemy of my enemy...

then, there are the competing interest for the domestic government bureaucracies.
Pentagon, NSA, CIA, State Dep't, As I have written about in Michael Glennon's double government thesis, and I am not even starting on the think tanks yet. Brookings, American Enterprise Institute, RAND, Project For New American Century.... http://www.bostonglobe.com/arts/books/2 ... story.html

Then you have former Presidents going off the script, and doing their own missions like Jimmy Carter,

A coherent policy is just not workable. The POTUS is susceptible to the whims and winds not of his/her doing. What the POTUS can do, they can manage perception however, they can communicate the myth, the American exceptionalism, the manifest destiny(in this exception when manifest destiny points to the east to the orient to the ME. a "pivot"). there are lag times for operations on the ground versus the ephemeral strikes when JSOC goes into action in Tripoli or Kiev, where they work against operation objectives 24 months antecedent.

So, I leave you with... a coherent policy, is the simulcra of a coherent policy.

 

[blackcat]

anyone hear also that Obama managed to sideline Petraeus by leaking the material with his affair and the biographer. Any Australians here? Very Hawkey (former PM Bob Hawke and his biographer now his wife)

So, pay no heed to the denials, Petraeus did have grander ambitions than just the CIA, and was Murdoch willing to be his patron? Murdoch is willing to be anyone's patron for influence, he only backs the winning horse, notorious in UK and Australian politics for getting his hands dirty around election time. Pity Roger Ayles tv station does not quite tip elections.

 

[python]

Ukraine: un général français démonte le mythe de l'"invasion russe"
http://fr.sputniknews.com/international ... 00534.html
(in french)
Ukraine: A French General destroys the myth of the russian invasion

according to the article, the director of french military intelligence general christophe gomart accused the american intelligence of falsifying facts. specifically, speaking before one of the committees of the french parliament, he said russia was NEVER preparing to invade ukraine. he referred to some france's own sources. moreover, he basically hinted at the us abusing its leading role within nato while referring to the falsehood.

my comment on the news validity after some research:
the accusation, if true, is so sensational, that it required a validation...to start, the source of the article is NOT a genuine french-based media. therefore, attempting to find an independent confirmation, i googled 'christophe gomart' both in english and french...among the heap of irrelevant finds, i could find only the sputnik reprints with NONE pointing to a main stream source. this seemed strange, as the french media would go bananas if it had sniffed out the piece. finally, i came across this link (also in french):
http://www.dedefensa.org/article-en_pas ... _2015.html

in summary, if i understood it correctly, the link refers to a 8132-word document, a report of the parliamentary hearing where the general was questioned. it seems the general made those accusations indirectly, as if a slip of tongue, while answering a question by Frédéric Lefebvre, about the relations with nato.

iow, the sensational statement appears genuine. why the french main stream media passed it, is not clear to me.

 

[blutto]

Re:

Ukraine: un général français démonte le mythe de l'"invasion russe"
http://fr.sputniknews.com/international ... 00534.html
(in french)
Ukraine: A French General destroys the myth of the russian invasion

according to the article, the director of french military intelligence general christophe gomart accused the american intelligence of falsifying facts. specifically, speaking before one of the committees of the french parliament, he said russia was NEVER preparing to invade ukraine. he referred to some france's own sources. moreover, he basically hinted at the us abusing its leading role within nato while referring to the falsehood.

my comment on the news validity after some research:
the accusation, if true, is so sensational, that it required a validation...to start, the source of the article is NOT a genuine french-based media. therefore, attempting to find an independent confirmation, i googled 'christophe gomart' both in english and french...among the heap of irrelevant finds, i could find only the sputnik reprints with NONE pointing to a main stream source. this seemed strange, as the french media would go bananas if it had sniffed out the piece. finally, i came across this link (also in french):
http://www.dedefensa.org/article-en_pas ... _2015.html

in summary, if i understood it correctly, the link refers to a 8132-word document, a report of the parliamentary hearing where the general was questioned. it seems the general made those accusations indirectly, as if a slip of tongue, while answering a question by Frédéric Lefebvre, about the relations with nato.

iow, the sensational statement appears genuine. why the french main stream media passed it, is not clear to me.

....just a wild assed guess here but maybe the French media is taking a page from the widely partisan reporting on the Ukrainian file by the American media... the Western media has over the last several decades had a rather strange relationship with things that stand in the way of "official" stories....and maybe that tendency has rubbed off on the French media, witness the way the French media dealt with the Libyan "liberation" ( they either lied thru their teeth or simply ignored contrary evidence not unlike the statement you commented on )...

Cheers

 

[The Hitch]

Re: Re:

"BREAKING"

Iraqi PM Al Abadi announces "liberation" of Tikrit.

About time the Iraqi army cowards step up to protect their own country, even if they are supported by the Iran revolutionary guard. The U.S. gave them everything they needed to fight ISIL, money, training, equipment, everything but a backbone. It's an Arab conflict, let those in the neighborhood fix it.

Really not fair to call Iraqi army cowards. It's a 10x more dangerous job than being in the US army with a fraction of the pay.

Also we are all human so the - let them fix their own problems argument doesn't feel right to me.

 

[The Hitch]

Re:

Okay, you're not getting it. The "Iraqi forces" don't give a **** about protecting the "Iraqi state" because it has zero value to them. They didn't drop gear and run. They actively supported the political entity that they do care about. You don't like ISIS. Got it. They cut people's heads off and are barbarians about the whole deal. Sure. From their perspective, that is small beer compared to white phosphorous, depleted uranium, Abu Ghraib and a million other equally barbarous acts. Except. Maybe, just maybe, these new political entities represent a large and disaffected population that is founding new national roots. Not like the US hasn't had a brutally fought revolution or a gruesome civil war...

Wow, you justify the murder of Iraqicivilians by pointing to the behaviour of a few individual US soldiers 10 years ago.

Btw, its funny that for someone who keeps promoting this racist split of the world into white and non white, you have somehow failed to realize that almost all of Isis victims are - non whites.

You nobly credit Isis with fighting this just battle against big bad US, and list a few things the US has done.

Yeah, you do realize most of what Isis has been doing has been massacring local peasants? Not Americans. Not that killing American civilians is any better, but it's astounding that you don't seem to realize Isis victims aren't even American to begin with.

I think you choose to ignore that because it doesnt suit the argument you seem desperate to force.

The al quaeda apologists were the same. Never mentioned the fact that 99.9% of people alq killed were Muslims, and hated when they were brought up.

So much easier to paint them as fighting this great social battle for justice against America than admit they are wackjob bloodthirsty psychopaths who blow up women and children for fun.

Anyone is better than uncle Sam. Even people who will kill 5 year old girls for going to school. Not America =good.

Even pythons hilarious conspiracy theory portrayals of Putin as an opressed champion of makind are light compared to you.

 

[movingtarget]

Re:

Ukraine: un général français démonte le mythe de l'"invasion russe"
http://fr.sputniknews.com/international ... 00534.html
(in french)
Ukraine: A French General destroys the myth of the russian invasion

according to the article, the director of french military intelligence general christophe gomart accused the american intelligence of falsifying facts. specifically, speaking before one of the committees of the french parliament, he said russia was NEVER preparing to invade ukraine. he referred to some france's own sources. moreover, he basically hinted at the us abusing its leading role within nato while referring to the falsehood.

my comment on the news validity after some research:
the accusation, if true, is so sensational, that it required a validation...to start, the source of the article is NOT a genuine french-based media. therefore, attempting to find an independent confirmation, i googled 'christophe gomart' both in english and french...among the heap of irrelevant finds, i could find only the sputnik reprints with NONE pointing to a main stream source. this seemed strange, as the french media would go bananas if it had sniffed out the piece. finally, i came across this link (also in french):
http://www.dedefensa.org/article-en_pas ... _2015.html

in summary, if i understood it correctly, the link refers to a 8132-word document, a report of the parliamentary hearing where the general was questioned. it seems the general made those accusations indirectly, as if a slip of tongue, while answering a question by Frédéric Lefebvre, about the relations with nato.

iow, the sensational statement appears genuine. why the french main stream media passed it, is not clear to me.

A Russian backed invasion is still a Russian invasion and who was in the coffins going back over the border ? Everyone knows that some of the fighters were Russian conscripts but of course it was not on Russian TV as usual. Some actually refused to go. Russian backed mercenaries and Russian soldiers not in Russian uniforms with Russian weapons sounds like an invasion to me. Putin has already admitted he had plans for Crimea before the *** hit the fan in Kiev. The French are selling arms to Russia and are playing a balancing act it seems.

 

[Tricycle Rider]

Re:

Italy's new minister for Public Works Delrio arrives for his first day in the job!

While I would prefer he wore a helmet and took on more of an aero position I like the general message.

Disclaimer - I live in the US

 

[blackcat]

Re: Re:

Okay, you're not getting it. The "Iraqi forces" don't give a **** about protecting the "Iraqi state" because it has zero value to them. They didn't drop gear and run. They actively supported the political entity that they do care about. You don't like ISIS. Got it. They cut people's heads off and are barbarians about the whole deal. Sure. From their perspective, that is small beer compared to white phosphorous, depleted uranium, Abu Ghraib and a million other equally barbarous acts. Except. Maybe, just maybe, these new political entities represent a large and disaffected population that is founding new national roots. Not like the US hasn't had a brutally fought revolution or a gruesome civil war...

Wow, you justify the murder of Iraqicivilians by pointing to the behaviour of a few individual US soldiers 10 years ago.

Btw, its funny that for someone who keeps promoting this racist split of the world into white and non white, you have somehow failed to realize that almost all of Isis victims are - non whites.

You nobly credit Isis with fighting this just battle against big bad US, and list a few things the US has done.

Yeah, you do realize most of what Isis has been doing has been massacring local peasants? Not Americans. Not that killing American civilians is any better, but it's astounding that you don't seem to realize Isis victims aren't even American to begin with.

I think you choose to ignore that because it doesnt suit the argument you seem desperate to force.

The al quaeda apologists were the same. Never mentioned the fact that 99.9% of people alq killed were Muslims, and hated when they were brought up.

So much easier to paint them as fighting this great social battle for justice against America than admit they are wackjob bloodthirsty psychopaths who blow up women and children for fun.

Anyone is better than uncle Sam. Even people who will kill 5 year old girls for going to school. Not America =good.

Even pythons hilarious conspiracy theory portrayals of Putin as an opressed champion of makind are light compared to you.

dont think that the sunni/wahabbi miltancy, is not part of the incoherent US foreign policy to cleave the muslim world and the ME.

 

[ToreBear]

Re: Re:

Ukraine: un général français démonte le mythe de l'"invasion russe"
http://fr.sputniknews.com/international ... 00534.html
(in french)
Ukraine: A French General destroys the myth of the russian invasion

according to the article, the director of french military intelligence general christophe gomart accused the american intelligence of falsifying facts. specifically, speaking before one of the committees of the french parliament, he said russia was NEVER preparing to invade ukraine. he referred to some france's own sources. moreover, he basically hinted at the us abusing its leading role within nato while referring to the falsehood.

my comment on the news validity after some research:
the accusation, if true, is so sensational, that it required a validation...to start, the source of the article is NOT a genuine french-based media. therefore, attempting to find an independent confirmation, i googled 'christophe gomart' both in english and french...among the heap of irrelevant finds, i could find only the sputnik reprints with NONE pointing to a main stream source. this seemed strange, as the french media would go bananas if it had sniffed out the piece. finally, i came across this link (also in french):
http://www.dedefensa.org/article-en_pas ... _2015.html

in summary, if i understood it correctly, the link refers to a 8132-word document, a report of the parliamentary hearing where the general was questioned. it seems the general made those accusations indirectly, as if a slip of tongue, while answering a question by Frédéric Lefebvre, about the relations with nato.

iow, the sensational statement appears genuine. why the french main stream media passed it, is not clear to me.

A Russian backed invasion is still a Russian invasion and who was in the coffins going back over the border ? Everyone knows that some of the fighters were Russian conscripts but of course it was not on Russian TV as usual. Some actually refused to go. Russian backed mercenaries and Russian soldiers not in Russian uniforms with Russian weapons sounds like an invasion to me. Putin has already admitted he had plans for Crimea before the **** hit the fan in Kiev. The French are selling arms to Russia and are playing a balancing act it seems.

The French are currently not selling arms to Russia, or more correctly not delivering. Though the French did deliver Catherine thermal sights to Russian tanks quite a few years back. I think it was back in the late 90s or something.

The article above is likely not correct. Sputniknews is a part of the Russian propaganda apparatus. They like to add a grain of truth, then you are not likely to find any way to corroborate that information. The French general probably said something, but Sputnink news used part of what he said, and added/removed for the desired effect. Had the situation been as presented by sputnik, some the French media would have followed it up.

In this case it's to invoke memories of the run up to the invasion of Iraq where the US was providing misleading satellite images to convince countries to join. The French had a national capability and could debunk it. The Germans were given the French info. The point for the Russians is to sow division among Nato/EU countries.

Otherwise you are correct. Additionally back in august when it looked like the "rebels" would loose, Russia intervened with regular units to change the balance of power.

Their current strategy is to recruit contract soldiers then assemble them into new units. Some conscripts have been pressured/tricked into signing as well. Though I don't think this is policy. Likely more about commanders struggling to fill quotas.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Re: Re:

"BREAKING"

Iraqi PM Al Abadi announces "liberation" of Tikrit.

About time the Iraqi army cowards step up to protect their own country, even if they are supported by the Iran revolutionary guard. The U.S. gave them everything they needed to fight ISIL, money, training, equipment, everything but a backbone. It's an Arab conflict, let those in the neighborhood fix it.

Really not fair to call Iraqi army cowards. It's a 10x more dangerous job than being in the US army with a fraction of the pay.

Also we are all human so the - let them fix their own problems argument doesn't feel right to me.

Equipped to the teeth, better than any nation in the region including Iran, backed by a decade of training, and huge amounts of $..when faced by a numerically inferior force, both in training, equipment and support, their officers first, then the rest, took off their uniforms and hit the road. Seems none of them read the chapter from Sun Tzu or Clausiwitz.

All Human..some in ISIL seem to not be.

Before members of the US military AGAIN dies for their country, they had better step up and decide who's side they are on.