World Politics

[mikeNphilly]

Re: Re:

Vladimir Putin authorises delivery of missile system to Iran
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/13/vladimir-putin-authorises-delivery-of-missile-system-to-iran

this is a very significant geopolitical development that would predictably raise anger in the us and israel. as we learned today, it sure did...

why did vlad decide to troll the us and israel NOW while himself being under the west's sanctions ?

to remind the contextual history... russia had concluded a deal with iran in 2007 according to which they obliged to supply one billion $$ worth of the most advanced surface-to-air s-300 missiles. most pundits commented at the time that if delivered, the missiles would essentially preclude ANY attack on the iranian nuclear sites. later, when the us and israel went berserk over the contract and put pressure, russia scrapped the contract. iran got pyssed and sued them for $4 billion.

this russian decision logic i don't understand...why now ? why so blatantly in the us face when both the us and the eu announced they will lift ANY sanction on iran only AFTER the new nuclear agreement with iran proves real ?

the only rational explanation for the in-your-face move i can see is - the 2 states currently under the west's sanctions decided to cooperate to reduce the sanctions effect and saying 'eff you, west'...?

perhaps the new development was also designed to send a message that the iran-russia common position in yemen and syria is going from now on receive an increasingly aggressive response if the west continued to support the saudi military escalation...this crap is too confusing

This missile system is entirely defensive, and was ordered before the last round of sanctions were instituted in 2007. If this prevents US or Israeli air strikes on Iran, then I say it's a good thing.

Eh, its an old SAM system and our technology can defeat it. Not sure why you think Iran with nukes is a good thing.

 

[blackcat]

Re: Re:

This missile system is entirely defensive, and was ordered before the last round of sanctions were instituted in 2007. If this prevents US or Israeli air strikes on Iran, then I say it's a good thing.

were these the russian land to sea ones that have effectively done a poison pill on the American and Israeli ambitions on regime change from military thrust, all they need to do is close the strait of hormuz and that is about 40% of world sea bound oil, or is it 60%, whatever, take out that much pil from the market,

sry, that was confusing.

the persians can take about 40% of the world oil off the market, (just some significant percentage like this). I think it is about 60% of seam bound oil passes thru the strait of hormuz, and it has a narrow choke point, the persians could close it with just mines and artillery, but they have some good land to sea ruski high tech missiles.

but amsterhammer might be talking about jdams or land air defensive missiles.

 

[python]

Re: Re:

Vladimir Putin authorises delivery of missile system to Iran
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/13/vladimir-putin-authorises-delivery-of-missile-system-to-iran

this is a very significant geopolitical development that would predictably raise anger in the us and israel. as we learned today, it sure did...

why did vlad decide to troll the us and israel NOW while himself being under the west's sanctions ?

to remind the contextual history... russia had concluded a deal with iran in 2007 according to which they obliged to supply one billion $$ worth of the most advanced surface-to-air s-300 missiles. most pundits commented at the time that if delivered, the missiles would essentially preclude ANY attack on the iranian nuclear sites. later, when the us and israel went berserk over the contract and put pressure, russia scrapped the contract. iran got pyssed and sued them for $4 billion.

this russian decision logic i don't understand...why now ? why so blatantly in the us face when both the us and the eu announced they will lift ANY sanction on iran only AFTER the new nuclear agreement with iran proves real ?

the only rational explanation for the in-your-face move i can see is - the 2 states currently under the west's sanctions decided to cooperate to reduce the sanctions effect and saying 'eff you, west'...?

perhaps the new development was also designed to send a message that the iran-russia common position in yemen and syria is going from now on receive an increasingly aggressive response if the west continued to support the saudi military escalation...this crap is too confusing

This missile system is entirely defensive, and was ordered before the last round of sanctions were instituted in 2007. If this prevents US or Israeli air strikes on Iran, then I say it's a good thing.

Eh, its an old SAM system and our technology can defeat it. Not sure why you think Iran with nukes is a good thing.

ever since i posed the quoted question about the missile system, i tried to do some reading here and there from as a wide a sample of international media as i could find time for...the opinion i tend to merit at the moment is this. the sale, though technically a military matter, is in fact a complicated geo-political move. its eventual benefits to either russia or iran are far from obvious.

those who state the surface-to-air system is purely defensive are of course correct, but any military conflict is about both defensive and assaulting means. historically speaking, many conflicts started when one side feeling secure in its defense, assaulted another... the same russia is adamantly against the american anti-missile defense system in europe by arguing it undermines their nuclear deterrence capability. thus, when vlad or obama abuse the word 'defensive' they are mainly concerned with its pr effect, and both both know it.

as to the s-300 being old and ineffective, mike, check out some open source and the american generals characterizations of it as being fearsome and sophisticated. is it better than the american equivalent - the patriots - or can it be defeated easily by the americans are imo deflecting questions
also promoted by the american politicians

as was pointed earlier by some posters, the sale is more likely about sending political messages than the real military merits, about inflection points in policies.

as i posted earlier, russia was broadcasting via its 2-3 'experts' the missile sale for 2 weeks prior to vlad making the 'official' statement. why ? obviously, to soften the harsh effect of the reversal of its policy towards iran, that is, to let the israelis and the us react, and if they were too upset, try to see if those were interested in bargaining, in which areas and why (perhaps the sanctions ease whatever...). since we know only a small part of what's going on btwn the foreign ministries, we can only guess..

one thing i am reasonably sure, the sale is not about making the iranian airspace impenetrable, rather, to indicate where vlad was moving his bets and assess a reaction of his adversaries. are they ready to carry the costs of further escalation? who among the adversaries is LESS ready ? could a split of a united position be achieved ? or conversely, are they ready to compromise b/c of domestic pressure, or the unsuitability of ukrain's economy etc etc

it is a big game, imo, that vlad is good at, perhaps much better at than those he plays.

 

[blackcat]

MikenPhily, Iran aint after nuclear weapons, if they were, they would have had one before Pakistan and India.

the heads of the 7 US security agencies when they produced the NIE, nationalintelligence estimate, in 2007 managed to make an enemy in Cheney when they would not reconfigure the intelligence. Read the stuff from Mossad, the Israelis KNOW they are not after nukes.

Dont just listen to Bibi and Boehner in the capitol. Cos you will be one of the manipulated

 

[blackcat]

Re: Re:

Eh, its an old SAM system and our technology can defeat it. Not sure why you think Iran with nukes is a good thing.

they can close the strait of hormuz with just mines and artillery, and the world economy goes into a death spiral.

that is their greatest defense weapon, the geography of their state.

m8, you cant divorce any dialogue on Iran without speaking of 53 and Mossadegh.

has there ever been a more ironic eponymous nymous head of state?

 

[movingtarget]

Re:

australians are cnuts, take it from me, rolled gold pudendum, asked Oncearunner, he has a phd in pussy

But hang on they stopped the boats ! At the moment I am trying to outlast the ANZAC porn. One more day otherwise I will be putting my head under water maybe permanently. Interesting that the offer made to illegals to go to Cambodia and live as Monty Pythonesque as it sounds was taken up by one guy. He looked lonely getting on the plane. SBS interviewed the only family that has taken the offer and they have opened a restaurant. Did not seem to have many customers and in today's Guardian, Farage was commenting that Australia's immigration policy was too extreme ! But it seems both sides of politics in Australia think the same way and the Greens want an open door policy for everyone basically. I don't think many countries realize that Australia has done a deal with Cambodia to take illegals that landed in Australia. Of course that money given to the Cambodians will go straight into very deep pockets. Economic refugees are a reality but there is also many Tamils that no doubt meet the criteria for humanitarian status and some of the Iranians and Syrians as well. But it seems at the moment the majority attempting to get to Australia are Iranians. It seems the Sri Lankans have lost interest and don't want to end up in Camdodia or PNG.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Re: Re:

Vladimir Putin authorises delivery of missile system to Iran
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/13/vladimir-putin-authorises-delivery-of-missile-system-to-iran

this is a very significant geopolitical development that would predictably raise anger in the us and israel. as we learned today, it sure did...

why did vlad decide to troll the us and israel NOW while himself being under the west's sanctions ?

to remind the contextual history... russia had concluded a deal with iran in 2007 according to which they obliged to supply one billion $$ worth of the most advanced surface-to-air s-300 missiles. most pundits commented at the time that if delivered, the missiles would essentially preclude ANY attack on the iranian nuclear sites. later, when the us and israel went berserk over the contract and put pressure, russia scrapped the contract. iran got pyssed and sued them for $4 billion.

this russian decision logic i don't understand...why now ? why so blatantly in the us face when both the us and the eu announced they will lift ANY sanction on iran only AFTER the new nuclear agreement with iran proves real ?

the only rational explanation for the in-your-face move i can see is - the 2 states currently under the west's sanctions decided to cooperate to reduce the sanctions effect and saying 'eff you, west'...?

perhaps the new development was also designed to send a message that the iran-russia common position in yemen and syria is going from now on receive an increasingly aggressive response if the west continued to support the saudi military escalation...this crap is too confusing

This missile system is entirely defensive, and was ordered before the last round of sanctions were instituted in 2007. If this prevents US or Israeli air strikes on Iran, then I say it's a good thing.

Except, even tho 'state of the art' for a Russian system, still blind to F-22/B-2/F-35

 

[python]

Re: Re:

Vladimir Putin authorises delivery of missile system to Iran
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/13/vladimir-putin-authorises-delivery-of-missile-system-to-iran

this is a very significant geopolitical development that would predictably raise anger in the us and israel. as we learned today, it sure did...

why did vlad decide to troll the us and israel NOW while himself being under the west's sanctions ?

to remind the contextual history... russia had concluded a deal with iran in 2007 according to which they obliged to supply one billion $$ worth of the most advanced surface-to-air s-300 missiles. most pundits commented at the time that if delivered, the missiles would essentially preclude ANY attack on the iranian nuclear sites. later, when the us and israel went berserk over the contract and put pressure, russia scrapped the contract. iran got pyssed and sued them for $4 billion.

this russian decision logic i don't understand...why now ? why so blatantly in the us face when both the us and the eu announced they will lift ANY sanction on iran only AFTER the new nuclear agreement with iran proves real ?

the only rational explanation for the in-your-face move i can see is - the 2 states currently under the west's sanctions decided to cooperate to reduce the sanctions effect and saying 'eff you, west'...?

perhaps the new development was also designed to send a message that the iran-russia common position in yemen and syria is going from now on receive an increasingly aggressive response if the west continued to support the saudi military escalation...this crap is too confusing

This missile system is entirely defensive, and was ordered before the last round of sanctions were instituted in 2007. If this prevents US or Israeli air strikes on Iran, then I say it's a good thing.

Except, even tho 'state of the art' for a Russian system, still blind to F-22/B-2/F-35

perhaps as a former military pilot you know more than us, the open-sources mortals, but it is still a 'may be'...an interesting story in this regard was how the serbians shot down an 'invisible' american f-117
with a russian missile designed in the 60s that was also 'not capable' killing a stealth fighter until it did kill one.
http://www.defenceaviation.com/2007/02/how-was-f-117-shot-down-part-1.html

but as i said in the previous post, the real military worth of the sale to iran imo is irrelevant...the vlad move was a political chess, that i'm not sure he'll benefit from.

 

[blackcat]

Re: Re:

Vladimir Putin authorises delivery of missile system to Iran
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/13/vladimir-putin-authorises-delivery-of-missile-system-to-iran

this is a very significant geopolitical development that would predictably raise anger in the us and israel. as we learned today, it sure did...

why did vlad decide to troll the us and israel NOW while himself being under the west's sanctions ?

to remind the contextual history... russia had concluded a deal with iran in 2007 according to which they obliged to supply one billion $$ worth of the most advanced surface-to-air s-300 missiles. most pundits commented at the time that if delivered, the missiles would essentially preclude ANY attack on the iranian nuclear sites. later, when the us and israel went berserk over the contract and put pressure, russia scrapped the contract. iran got pyssed and sued them for $4 billion.

this russian decision logic i don't understand...why now ? why so blatantly in the us face when both the us and the eu announced they will lift ANY sanction on iran only AFTER the new nuclear agreement with iran proves real ?

the only rational explanation for the in-your-face move i can see is - the 2 states currently under the west's sanctions decided to cooperate to reduce the sanctions effect and saying 'eff you, west'...?

perhaps the new development was also designed to send a message that the iran-russia common position in yemen and syria is going from now on receive an increasingly aggressive response if the west continued to support the saudi military escalation...this crap is too confusing

This missile system is entirely defensive, and was ordered before the last round of sanctions were instituted in 2007. If this prevents US or Israeli air strikes on Iran, then I say it's a good thing.

Except, even tho 'state of the art' for a Russian system, still blind to F-22/B-2/F-35

perhaps as a former military pilot you know more than us, the open-sources mortals, but it is still a 'may be'...an interesting story in this regard was how the serbians shot down an 'invisible' american f-117
with a russian missile designed in the 60s that was also 'not capable' killing a stealth fighter until it did kill one.
http://www.defenceaviation.com/2007/02/how-was-f-117-shot-down-part-1.html

but as i said in the previous post, the real military worth of the sale to iran imo is irrelevant...the vlad move was a political chess, that i'm not sure he'll benefit from.

but strait of hormuz is the poison pill. they hold the world economy blackmail. this is why Israel and America are constrained, even just employing tactical nukes to destroy the mtn centrifuges, Iran will then close the strait. so you have the current stalemate where the west wages a soft war with sanctions

 

[python]

Re: Re:

blackcat wrote:

but strait of hormuz is the poison pill. they hold the world economy blackmail. this is why Israel and America are constrained, even just employing tactical nukes to destroy the mtn centrifuges, Iran will then close the strait. so you have the current stalemate where the west wages a soft war with sanctions

i know you brought this up several times already - but, even though closing the strait is a nuclear option for iran, it is by far not the preferred one, nor the only one. moreover, being the last resort option, if exercised, it would almost certainly invite a devastation to iran's economy, while the world would experience a temporary deep hickup.

2-3 years back, when the israeli attack on iran was actively discussed, i posted some interesting military-economic studies of the very effects of the closure. i can't recall all the details, but those authors basically concluded that the mining in and of itself would be just a temporary disruption lasting several weeks at the worst...that the west's overwhelming military assets to remove the mines and to suppress the relatively modest iranian military attempting to prevent the mines removal was a plausible scenario. i do believe the ayatollahs know that.

otoh, vlad's missiles expand the iranian range of responses and thus enormously complicate ANY plan of an attack if it is to be a success. in the annals of military history one can find that sometimes just the perceived complicated logistics (never mind the high projected casualties) resulted in the cancellation of operations.

no doubt, the iranians want the missiles - what is vlad's gain is still not clear to me.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Re: Re:

Except, even tho 'state of the art' for a Russian system, still blind to F-22/B-2/F-35

perhaps as a former military pilot you know more than us, the open-sources mortals, but it is still a 'may be'...an interesting story in this regard was how the serbians shot down an 'invisible' american f-117
with a russian missile designed in the 60s that was also 'not capable' killing a stealth fighter until it did kill one.
http://www.defenceaviation.com/2007/02/how-was-f-117-shot-down-part-1.html

but as i said in the previous post, the real military worth of the sale to iran imo is irrelevant...the vlad move was a political chess, that i'm not sure he'll benefit from.[/quote]

'Golden BB', and the F-117 had other issues. One 117 downed after a LOT of 117 missions.

PLUS, the frequency that these 'new' Russian missiles operate in..that info is already in the USN/USAF/IAF IronHand aircraft. PLUS a relatively complicated system..operated perhaps with Russians on the ground but because of above, a 'few' Russians are going to be sent home in metal boxes. A air campaign will not happen in isolation. It will have many layers, of many different types of aircraft. It will be a one night mission, not a sustained campaign. Add into the mix some weak Iranian pilots, wandering around at night..more than a few of them will be bagged by their own missiles. It will be risky, but it will also be wildly successful..if it ever happens. A few S-300..the locations of which will be known. Walk in the Park..

 

[python]

busted, i have no reason to disbelieve your claim of being a retired navy pilot, but sometimes your dismissive, simplistic and cavalier statements about america's adversaries being drunkards and only fit for body bags make me wonder...your 'walk in the park' attitude seems the shortest way to seeing more americans coming home in body bags...

One real us air force colonel (2,000 flight hours and 240 combat hours) with his up-to-date training) feels almost opposite of you. here's what he said:

We have studied it and trained to counter it for years. While we are not scared of it, we respect the S-300 for what it is: a very mobile, accurate, and lethal missile system.

if interested, read about his take further here:
Russia’s Sale of the S-300 to Iran Will Shift Military Balance Across the Middle East
http://blogs.cfr.org/davidson/2015/04/20/russias-sale-of-the-s-300-to-iran-will-shift-military-balance-across-the-middle-east/
he goes further by telling the truth that a full 1/2 of american pilots 'are not trained to the level necessary for the “high-end fight.” In light of proliferation developments such as this Russian deal with Iran, that is not a reassuring statistic'

 

[ray j willings]

Walk in the Park ,,,,that's worked out well for the US in the past. The US are the reason half the world is at war. Military complex of power and cash. Life is cheap always has been. The fox news fan boys are mind controlled idiots.

 

[MarkvW]

Re:

Walk in the Park ,,,,that's worked out well for the US in the past. The US are the reason half the world is at war. Military complex of power and cash. Life is cheap always has been. The fox news fan boys are mind controlled idiots.

"Half the world" is not at war.

I just wanted to check out this thread to see whether the criticisms of you are valid.

They are.

 

[blackcat]

Re:

Walk in the Park ,,,,that's worked out well for the US in the past. The US are the reason half the world is at war. Military complex of power and cash. Life is cheap always has been. The fox news fan boys are mind controlled idiots.

smedley butler had it in one

 

[ray j willings]

Re: Re:

Walk in the Park ,,,,that's worked out well for the US in the past. The US are the reason half the world is at war. Military complex of power and cash. Life is cheap always has been. The fox news fan boys are mind controlled idiots.

"Half the world" is not at war.

I just wanted to check out this thread to see whether the criticisms of you are valid.

They are.

Do you read the news what part of the world is not at war "war on terror"
its actually more than half the world but I was using it to make a point.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/politics/world-peace-these-are-the-only-11-countries-in-the-world-that-are-actually-free-from-conflict-9669623.html

"I just wanted to check out this thread to see whether the criticisms of you are valid" You need to get out more

 

[blackcat]

Re: Re:

i know you brought this up several times already - but, even though closing the strait is a nuclear option for iran, it is by far not the preferred one, nor the only one. moreover, being the last resort option, if exercised, it would almost certainly invite a devastation to iran's economy, while the world would experience a temporary deep hickup.

but it is not a nuclear option. it is just a game of brinkmanship, or brinksmanship. It is an option on the table, that will never be used. In corporate Wall Street terms, or politics journalism leaker/source terms... Like Israel's Samson option. The fact that most jewish people live in the diaspora, they would not use a Samson option destroying the world.

This is not a legitimate option for Iran. It is however, a tool that is unsaid, on the negotiating table.

In about 2002 when the had Talibs and Al Qaeda militants in custody, and were ready to hand them over to the Americans, but there were no diplomatic pathways to reignite communication and operation n cooperation, they(the persians) kept on developing the nuclear centrifuges, NOT FOR A NUKE, but for energy, *~2-3%enrichement, medical isotopes ~20% enrichment, for procedures such as x-rays and other $hit)

THEY NEVER DEVELOPED THE CENTRIFUGES FOR NUKES BUT FOR NEGOTIATION HAND.

it was a meta, or counter-factual asset to negotiate away. They only developed the capacity, to negotiate away, dialectic tactic. (building something false, to use it to negotiate for things like removal of sanctions.)

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Re:

busted, i have no reason to disbelieve your claim of being a retired navy pilot, but sometimes your dismissive, simplistic and cavalier statements about america's adversaries being drunkards and only fit for body bags make me wonder...your 'walk in the park' attitude seems the shortest way to seeing more americans coming home in body bags...

One real us air force colonel (2,000 flight hours and 240 combat hours) with his up-to-date training) feels almost opposite of you. here's what he said:

We have studied it and trained to counter it for years. While we are not scared of it, we respect the S-300 for what it is: a very mobile, accurate, and lethal missile system.

if interested, read about his take further here:
Russia’s Sale of the S-300 to Iran Will Shift Military Balance Across the Middle East
http://blogs.cfr.org/davidson/2015/04/20/russias-sale-of-the-s-300-to-iran-will-shift-military-balance-across-the-middle-east/
he goes further by telling the truth that a full 1/2 of american pilots 'are not trained to the level necessary for the “high-end fight.” In light of proliferation developments such as this Russian deal with Iran, that is not a reassuring statistic'

Only 2000 hours and a O-5? I guess a staff guy too. Ya know, the SA-2 during VietNam was a real terror also until we learned how to 'fight' it. It's no different than the S-300 now. Two things I will mention.
First, any air interdiction campaign will be multi layered, with lots of intel. No more large formations of B-52s flying into a SAM envelope. It will be at night.
Second, the military is given a mission, by the civilian leadership. It's the job of the military to carry it out..with knowledge, confidence, and to do it successfully. Because the mission of the military is to kill people and break things and force the adversary to the negotiation table. Nobody dislikes combat more than those who have to do it..and hopefully the civilians who then negotiate don't goon it up(Second Gulf War).

The members of the military show confidence and use their training and superior equipment to get it done. The above O-5, in spite of low flight time(I have 5000 hrs+, in 20 years of flying), does the military no favors by saying that the aircrew are not traoned..maybe in the USAF...

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Re:

Walk in the Park ,,,,that's worked out well for the US in the past. The US are the reason half the world is at war. Military complex of power and cash. Life is cheap always has been. The fox news fan boys are mind controlled idiots.

Remember the messes are created by civilian politicians, not the military. The military is given a mission, they do it with aplomb, no whining and mincing, like 'some' civilians. The ones who dislike combat the most are those who must do it. So 'civilians', who cower in their penthouse apartments can have their latte in the morning.

BTW-again, I dislike Faux news. Never watch it, not MSNBC, not that either.

I can tell you have never been in the military ray..I wonder if you are from a more 'liberal' Euro nation..Netherlands perhaps, Denmark?

 

[blackcat]

Busted, Chris Hedges, War Gives Us Meaning.

Maslow's Hammer-standing army. MERC. K-Street.

4 star ambitions. gotta get ur combat experience.

 

[ray j willings]

Re: Re:

Walk in the Park ,,,,that's worked out well for the US in the past. The US are the reason half the world is at war. Military complex of power and cash. Life is cheap always has been. The fox news fan boys are mind controlled idiots.

Remember the messes are created by civilian politicians, not the military. The military is given a mission, they do it with aplomb, no whining and mincing, like 'some' civilians. The ones who dislike combat the most are those who must do it. So 'civilians', who cower in their penthouse apartments can have their latte in the morning.

BTW-again, I dislike Faux news. Never watch it, not MSNBC, not that either.

I can tell you have never been in the military ray..I wonder if you are from a more 'liberal' Euro nation..Netherlands perhaps, Denmark?

I Agree with you. I am from London. Born in Hackney "mean streets, not joking"
Dad was English My mum was Irish.
I am a musician so I get where your coming from in your assumptions. We are so easy to pin down.

 

[python]

busted, i can't quite figure your logic...

your statements on the us military mission success and the winning attitude can be read on every wall of any us army recruiting office. i don't think those dogmatic stamps added anything to my understanding of the missile sales...but that's your legitimate opinion, and i am fine with that.

but you putting down an opinion of a fellow military pilot b/c he flew fewer hours than you is just puzzling b/c it narrows down to a classic fallacy, 'i am right b/c my dijk is bigger' his comments imo sound more relevant than yours b/c he was trained, as he said, to avoid the very s-300, you never were....
.
even more puzzling was your criticizing him for telling the truth about half of the us pilots not being fit for the iran-like mission. here was the american officer who most likely was trying to alert his compatriots to the sad truth - perhaps he was concerned with his fellow untrained pilots coming home in the body bag - and you found him 'not doing the military favours

i doubt the officer said anything not in the public domain. he probably said it to enhance his opinion of the s-300 being a serious threat if approached with a cavalier attitude like yours, but you criticized him b/c of inferences with your stateted attitude of a 'walk in the park'

look, i respect your opinions but this was the last time i addressed them should they deal with any military matters.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Re:

busted, i can't quite figure your logic...

your statements on the us military mission success and the winning attitude can be read on every wall of any us army recruiting office. i don't think those dogmatic stamps added anything to my understanding of the missile sales...but that's your legitimate opinion, and i am fine with that.

but you putting down an opinion of a fellow military pilot b/c he flew fewer hours than you is just puzzling b/c it narrows down to a classic fallacy, 'i am right b/c my dijk is bigger' his comments imo sound more relevant than yours b/c he was trained, as he said, to avoid the very s-300, you never were....
.
even more puzzling was your criticizing him for telling the truth about half of the us pilots not being fit for the iran-like mission. here was the american officer who most likely was trying to alert his compatriots to the sad truth - perhaps he was concerned with his fellow untrained pilots coming home in the body bag - and you found him 'not doing the military favours

i doubt the officer said anything not in the public domain. he probably said it to enhance his opinion of the s-300 being a serious threat if approached with a cavalier attitude like yours, but you criticized him b/c of inferences with your stateted attitude of a 'walk in the park'

look, i respect your opinions but this was the last time i addressed them should they deal with any military matters.

A very wise USN O-6 once told me, "they don't know how bad it is unless you tell them". It's not this lower ranking USAF officer job, particularly if he indeed was on active duty, to comment on aircrew readiness, unless that was his job as directed by a superior. THAT'S why I criticize him. And how do you know I never trained to fly in the S-300 envelope? I mentioned VietNam, common knowledge, LineBacker and Rolling Thunder.

You get your mission, you do it to the best of your ability. No whining. If this O-5 is unhappy or feels he is untrained, he should vote with his feet. If his squadron mates are 'untrained', as a O-5, train them as good as you can. I suspect he isn't in command of a squadron either nor has he been.

 

[rhubroma]

Re: Re:

Yes, all that and worse. Go play on 'stormfront' or on some other fascist, white supremacist page with your like minded far right goons. Your views are grossly offensive to any rational folks. I am severely biting my lip here so as to avoid a ban.

Yo lol. Saw it coming... Serious, everything I wrote has got nothing to do with "Stormfront", "white supremacist", or else slaps you try to make below waist line... Go back to school to improve your reading skills. That is all advice I can give.

All I did was (as usual) linking hard facts. And, also as usual, you counter with insults. Why? Because you have no arguments, thus playing the same old dumb game of calling those who don´t follow the ideologies of the blinded fake lefties as fascists.
If I take your thinking 100% serious, you also mean to call whole Australia as fascist, because they don´t follow your line.
Wow! The last guy I remember to insult a whole country was Lance Armstrong. You made it, going as low as him. Congrats.

Australians want to control immigration precisely to the degree that they don't need the riff raff and are safely ensconsed in their remote, prosperous, post-aboriginal haven. Funny how that works, doesn't it?

The only thing that is certain about the poor in Africa, is that they don't have a voice and they certainly don't have the right to a passport of access to the so called developed world.

The corollary of this, of course, has been the centuries of colonialism and overpowering that the West has brought, and certainly without even the need of a passport, into their domain.

 

[42x16ss]

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australians are cnuts, take it from me, rolled gold pudendum, asked Oncearunner, he has a phd in pussy

But hang on they stopped the boats ! At the moment I am trying to outlast the ANZAC porn. One more day otherwise I will be putting my head under water maybe permanently. Interesting that the offer made to illegals to go to Cambodia and live as Monty Pythonesque as it sounds was taken up by one guy. He looked lonely getting on the plane. SBS interviewed the only family that has taken the offer and they have opened a restaurant. Did not seem to have many customers and in today's Guardian, Farage was commenting that Australia's immigration policy was too extreme ! But it seems both sides of politics in Australia think the same way and the Greens want an open door policy for everyone basically. I don't think many countries realize that Australia has done a deal with Cambodia to take illegals that landed in Australia. Of course that money given to the Cambodians will go straight into very deep pockets. Economic refugees are a reality but there is also many Tamils that no doubt meet the criteria for humanitarian status and some of the Iranians and Syrians as well. But it seems at the moment the majority attempting to get to Australia are Iranians. It seems the Sri Lankans have lost interest and don't want to end up in Camdodia or PNG.

Australian refugee policy is embarassing and horrific, it makes me sick to my stomach to think that there is a serious percentage who think it's good policy. Then Tony Abbott has the nerve to say that Australians are sick of being lectured to by the UN. WTF? He certainly doesn't speak for me.

The dog whistling and appeals to the lowest common denominator is beyond disgusting. I'm getting scared by what could eventuate with some of the lunatics getting around. Those stupid Reclaim Australia rallies had actual neo Nazis present yet there were several prominent political commentators who chose to obect to the counter protestors - in the mainstream media no less!

Which side would people here choose in this confrontation?

For a good scare check these out:

https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&...sTEgJEmoMLCy55yIRC02LXw&bvm=bv.91665533,d.eXY

Yes, Islam has serious issues but this is going off the charts. These guys are whack jobs hoping for a reaction.