World Politics

[del1962]

So who are the refugees traitors to? ISIL or Assad?

Think the comment about them being traitors is a new low.

Anyway here is what former Islamist Maajid Nawiz says "“statement 'this has nothing to do with Islam' is disingenuous,unhelpful as saying this Islam"

https://twitter.com/MaajidNawaz/status/666959575241900032

 

[Amsterhammer]

Regarding so many comments in the media that "it's just a few fanatics who are perverting our religion", I wanted to post this story.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/18/world/paris-soccer-fans-turkey/?iid=ob_article_footer_expansion&iref=obinsite

Apparently during a moment of silence for the victims in Paris at a match in Istanbul between Greece and Turkey, there wasn't silence. There were chants of "Allahu akbar" during the moment.

So I get that the vast majority of muslims are decent people, as are the vast majority of any large group. I'm not asking for Syrian refugees to be barred from the US (for reasons unrelated to religion). But what I do see with some disturbing regularity is what appears to be support for acts of terrorism among many, many muslims. Cheering in the streets of some cities after 9/11 or Charlie Hebdo, this kind of thing we see in the story above. I understand that the reasons for the support are complex and have as much to do with global power as they do with religion. But what I don't see is muslims marching in protest against the attacks, I don't see muslim countries lining up to take the front lines agains the threat of Islamic terrorists. I do see and read about condemnation from many quarters, but I don't see any action.

I assume this is because there isn't great political support for it. Why not? More muslims are being killed than westerners by these cretins. Where is the outrage? Instead we get people shouting in support during a moment of silence.

It's not as simple as "they're all bad" and it's not as simple as "it's just a few extremists". Just more people talking past one another IMO.

Not that I am particularly fond of Turks, but you have the wrong ends of several sticks.

Turks don't have the same cultural background about a minute's silence. Turkish football fans are notorious for their noise, and for their lack of what we would call, respect. They shout and whistle during national anthems too. It's how they are, and that should certainly not be used as a reflection of Turks as whole.

I detest all this sanctimonious hand wringing and whinging about 'Muslims don't seem to be standing up and protesting or condemning'. Wrong. Individuals, groups, NGO's, imams, the president of Iran, and many many more have cursed and condemned the recent perps, and the warped ideology in whose name they thought they were acting. Murican Christians just like to whine about that, every single time.

 

[VeloCity]

Regarding so many comments in the media that "it's just a few fanatics who are perverting our religion", I wanted to post this story.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/18/world/paris-soccer-fans-turkey/?iid=ob_article_footer_expansion&iref=obinsite

Apparently during a moment of silence for the victims in Paris at a match in Istanbul between Greece and Turkey, there wasn't silence. There were chants of "Allahu akbar" during the moment.

So I get that the vast majority of muslims are decent people, as are the vast majority of any large group. I'm not asking for Syrian refugees to be barred from the US (for reasons unrelated to religion). But what I do see with some disturbing regularity is what appears to be support for acts of terrorism among many, many muslims. Cheering in the streets of some cities after 9/11 or Charlie Hebdo, this kind of thing we see in the story above. I understand that the reasons for the support are complex and have as much to do with global power as they do with religion. But what I don't see is muslims marching in protest against the attacks, I don't see muslim countries lining up to take the front lines agains the threat of Islamic terrorists. I do see and read about condemnation from many quarters, but I don't see any action.

I assume this is because there isn't great political support for it. Why not? More muslims are being killed than westerners by these cretins. Where is the outrage? Instead we get people shouting in support during a moment of silence.

It's not as simple as "they're all bad" and it's not as simple as "it's just a few extremists". Just more people talking past one another IMO.

Understand what you're saying but is it really any different than many American/European Catholics openly supporting the IRA, or many American/European Jews supporting terrorist acts by Israeli's, or even for that matter the "love it or leave it" never-acknowledge-wrongdoing-never-apologize-for-anything-no-matter-how-bad mentality of many Americans? It's hardly unique to Muslims and holding them to a higher standard is a bit unfair.

 

[red_flanders]

Not that I am particularly fond of Turks, but you have the wrong ends of several sticks.

Turks don't have the same cultural background about a minute's silence. Turkish football fans are notorious for their noise, and for their lack of what we would call, respect. They shout and whistle during national anthems too. It's how they are, and that should certainly not be used as a reflection of Turks as whole.

I detest all this sanctimonious hand wringing and whinging about 'Muslims don't seem to be standing up and protesting or condemning'. Wrong. Individuals, groups, NGO's, imams, the president of Iran, and many many more have cursed and condemned the recent perps, and the warped ideology in whose name they thought they were acting. Murican Christians just like to whine about that, every single time.

As I said, "I do see and read about condemnation from many quarters". Maybe you missed that. There's no question there is growing condemnation, and it happens much more than makes the front page.

I'm having a hard time understanding how Turks being boisterous and from a different culture is the same as chanting "Allahu akbar" during a moment of silence for the victims of a terrorist attack by people screaming "Allahu akbar" as they systematically shot and killed hundreds of innocent people.

It sounds like it was clearly intentional, and pointedly meant to show derision for the victims and support for the terrorists. If the article is wrong, and I'm taking what happened incorrectly, I would love to be set straight. But don't feed me some *** about boisterous Turks. If what was reported is accurate this was well beyond that.

 

[red_flanders]

Understand what you're saying but is it really any different than many American/European Catholics openly supporting the IRA, or many American/European Jews supporting terrorist acts by Israeli's, or even for that matter the "love it or leave it" never-acknowledge-wrongdoing-never-apologize-for-anything-no-matter-how-bad mentality of many Americans? It's hardly unique to Muslims and holding them to a higher standard is a bit unfair.

First of all it's but one example of many, and a particularly offensive one (to me at least) at that, coming just a few days after a brutal mass murder. The larger point is that there seems to be a fairly large segment of people in the middle east who are openly rooting for the terrorists when these kind of events happen. I'm not unsympathetic to the many reasons. What I am pointing out is that it's nonsense to suggest that this sentiment is isolated to a few extremists.

I'm not holding anyone to a higher standard. If there were a stadium half full of Americans cheering the deaths of innocents do you really think I'd be less revulsed? I can assure you I'd be a lot more pissed off about that.

 

[frenchfry]

Regarding so many comments in the media that "it's just a few fanatics who are perverting our religion", I wanted to post this story.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/18/world/paris-soccer-fans-turkey/?iid=ob_article_footer_expansion&iref=obinsite

Apparently during a moment of silence for the victims in Paris at a match in Istanbul between Greece and Turkey, there wasn't silence. There were chants of "Allahu akbar" during the moment.

So I get that the vast majority of muslims are decent people, as are the vast majority of any large group. I'm not asking for Syrian refugees to be barred from the US (for reasons unrelated to religion). But what I do see with some disturbing regularity is what appears to be support for acts of terrorism among many, many muslims. Cheering in the streets of some cities after 9/11 or Charlie Hebdo, this kind of thing we see in the story above. I understand that the reasons for the support are complex and have as much to do with global power as they do with religion. But what I don't see is muslims marching in protest against the attacks, I don't see muslim countries lining up to take the front lines agains the threat of Islamic terrorists. I do see and read about condemnation from many quarters, but I don't see any action.

I assume this is because there isn't great political support for it. Why not? More muslims are being killed than westerners by these cretins. Where is the outrage? Instead we get people shouting in support during a moment of silence.

It's not as simple as "they're all bad" and it's not as simple as "it's just a few extremists". Just more people talking past one another IMO.

There is a great deal of cultural confusion in the suburbs where there is a large immigrant based population. Even if the terrorist element is a small minority, there are varying degrees of Islamation in the general Muslim population, and the line between what is good and what is bad is often very hazy. The role and value of women in society, for example, is not viewed in the same way by a large part of the Muslim population as non-Muslims. A lot of the youth will be ambigous about the terrorist attacks, not understanding how they are wrong and senseless. There is a distinct cultural difference with mainstream France, although this difference varies greatly on an individual basis. The terrorists aren't the parents, they are the children of immigrants. Integration is not happening as it should.

 

[frenchfry]

Regarding so many comments in the media that "it's just a few fanatics who are perverting our religion", I wanted to post this story.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/18/world/paris-soccer-fans-turkey/?iid=ob_article_footer_expansion&iref=obinsite

Apparently during a moment of silence for the victims in Paris at a match in Istanbul between Greece and Turkey, there wasn't silence. There were chants of "Allahu akbar" during the moment.

So I get that the vast majority of muslims are decent people, as are the vast majority of any large group. I'm not asking for Syrian refugees to be barred from the US (for reasons unrelated to religion). But what I do see with some disturbing regularity is what appears to be support for acts of terrorism among many, many muslims. Cheering in the streets of some cities after 9/11 or Charlie Hebdo, this kind of thing we see in the story above. I understand that the reasons for the support are complex and have as much to do with global power as they do with religion. But what I don't see is muslims marching in protest against the attacks, I don't see muslim countries lining up to take the front lines agains the threat of Islamic terrorists. I do see and read about condemnation from many quarters, but I don't see any action.

I assume this is because there isn't great political support for it. Why not? More muslims are being killed than westerners by these cretins. Where is the outrage? Instead we get people shouting in support during a moment of silence.

It's not as simple as "they're all bad" and it's not as simple as "it's just a few extremists". Just more people talking past one another IMO.

Understand what you're saying but is it really any different than many American/European Catholics openly supporting the IRA, or many American/European Jews supporting terrorist acts by Israeli's, or even for that matter the "love it or leave it" never-acknowledge-wrongdoing-never-apologize-for-anything-no-matter-how-bad mentality of many Americans? It's hardly unique to Muslims and holding them to a higher standard is a bit unfair.

Many wrongs don't make a right.

 

[python]

tried to stay away from the discussion of 'its just a few fanatics...' or the opposite of the sentiment. but seeing how the valid concern is sliding into a classic trap of 'us vs. them', decided to add my 2 pennies...

in such charged matters, particularly immediately following the series of terror attacks, it is important to keep the perspective ABOVE some sad facts (like the turkish soccer fans) or the media smacking such facts, but in reality trying to manipulate our western reflexes for self-defense.

1st-ly, attempting to make a reaction of some (may be many) football fans, as repulsive as it was, into a more general and common sentiment of the turkish or more generally muslim population is as inaccurate as trying to portray ALL americans using the stereotypes of police brutality or the neocon ideology. it is plain silly. the football fans are a well known fringe, a subculture all over europe, perhaps all over the world.. if the violent extremism is on the rise among the muslim communities, examining the issue by studying football fans is a guaranteed way to self righteousness.

2nd-ly, expecting the muslim states and communities to queue in condemnation is as realistic as was expecting the western democracies queuing to impose sanctions on the us in the aftermath of the illegal invasion of iraq most knew was based on blatant lies. i mean the expectation of others to feel empathy in one's grief and sorrow is very human and natural. and many muslims i am sure do. but expecting some sort of mass queuing is pure rhetoric. on either side such factors as peer pressure, powerlessness, intimidation or an individual preference for not 'sticking up' can and do mask true peoples feeling. rushing to interpret the unknown is a conversation with a mirror.

 

[red_flanders]

Re:

1st-ly, attempting to make a reaction of some (may be many) football fans, as repulsive as it was, into a more general and common sentiment of the turkish or more generally muslim population is as inaccurate as trying to portray ALL americans using the stereotypes of police brutality or the neocon ideology. it is plain silly. the football fans are a well known fringe, a subculture all over europe, perhaps all over the world.. if the violent extremism is on the rise among the muslim communities, examining the issue by studying football fans is a guaranteed way to self righteousness.

First, I'm not attempting to make a reaction of football fans into something larger, I'm noting it as another example among many (as I said) of visible public support for terrorist acts. It is part of a pattern, not one example blown out of proportion. I don't think it's a "general" sentiment (whatever that means), I think it's more "common" than it should be. It should be fairly uncommon. it should be shockingly uncommon. Further, to set up a straw man of something as ridiculous as stereotyping ALL Americans based on neocon ideology is in fact silly. It's a silly comparison on its face, but it's silly because at no point do I suggest or imply ALL muslims feel this way. I in fact made the point that there has been widespread condemnation. Opinion polls amongst muslim countries tend to indicate minority, but still double-digit support for various terrorist groups and acts. So clearly not ALL, clearly a small minority, but still more than one would expect.

2nd-ly, expecting the muslim states and communities to queue in condemnation is as realistic as was expecting the western democracies queuing to impose sanctions on the us in the aftermath of the illegal invasion of iraq most knew was based on blatant lies. i mean the expectation of others to feel empathy in one's grief and sorrow is very human and natural. and many muslims i am sure do. but expecting some sort of mass queuing is pure rhetoric. on either side such factors as peer pressure, powerlessness, intimidation or an individual preference for not 'sticking up' can and do mask true peoples feeling. rushing to interpret the unknown is a conversation with a mirror.

Well, they by and large have condemned the attacks, as so many people will note. And I am less concerned with condemnation than I am with the governments of the countries around Iraq and Syria actively stepping up to deal with the threat on their own borders. Why are the countries in the area not more willing to deal with this, since (as has been pointed out so many times) the victims of these people are mostly muslim? By a large percentage. Why do they not see it as the threat we do? It seems they're just more accepting of the damage, turmoil, economic devastation and chaos which groups like this bring than we are.

What does the US invasion of Iraq. and justifiable and understandable negative feelings about that have to do with people cheering on a massacre in Paris? Are you conflating antipathy toward the US with all western democracies?

 

[python]

it can be argued that you, red, set up a straw man by not only repeatedly referring to a fringe group, such as football fans reaction. not only that. you linked a cnn article to back it up, which, as was shown by several posters, was little more than a straw man itself. you also did a lot of conflating, as hard as you tried to not look it. why would several of your posts figure a fringe group reaction in the context of a muslim reaction ? i brought examples (since you are an american) of the american actions you have shown a strong disagreement with. expecting you could see the parallel. of course, parallels are never perfectly symmetrical. if you expect the muslims to queue you might imagine they also expect something. just like it would be unrealistic to expect the european to queue to condemn america for something it did we dont like. moreover, that illegal iraq invasion not only took many fold more lives, but unquestionably contributed to the alienation of millions of muslims as well as directly stimulated the extremists recruitment.

velocity referred to you expecting a different standard. i dont know if you mean it, but that's how i see it too. somehow seeing too much into a fringe group reaction tells me any further discussions with you are pointless.

 

[frenchfry]

Re:

tried to stay away from the discussion of 'its just a few fanatics...' or the opposite of the sentiment. but seeing how the valid concern is sliding into a classic trap of 'us vs. them', decided to add my 2 pennies...

in such charged matters, particularly immediately following the series of terror attacks, it is important to keep the perspective ABOVE some sad facts (like the turkish soccer fans) or the media smacking such facts, but in reality trying to manipulate our western reflexes for self-defense.

1st-ly, attempting to make a reaction of some (may be many) football fans, as repulsive as it was, into a more general and common sentiment of the turkish or more generally muslim population is as inaccurate as trying to portray ALL americans using the stereotypes of police brutality or the neocon ideology. it is plain silly. the football fans are a well known fringe, a subculture all over europe, perhaps all over the world.. if the violent extremism is on the rise among the muslim communities, examining the issue by studying football fans is a guaranteed way to self righteousness.

2nd-ly, expecting the muslim states and communities to queue in condemnation is as realistic as was expecting the western democracies queuing to impose sanctions on the us in the aftermath of the illegal invasion of iraq most knew was based on blatant lies. i mean the expectation of others to feel empathy in one's grief and sorrow is very human and natural. and many muslims i am sure do. but expecting some sort of mass queuing is pure rhetoric. on either side such factors as peer pressure, powerlessness, intimidation or an individual preference for not 'sticking up' can and do mask true peoples feeling. rushing to interpret the unknown is a conversation with a mirror.

I reread red_flanders' post and I really don't see how you interpreted it the way you did.

There are a majority of muslims that condemn the violence and very few that applaud it, but there is also a grey area where there is a lot of ambiguity especially among the youth.

A few weeks ago there was someone on the radio trying to convince that there are only a very few radical Islamists and all other Muslims reject radicalisation. To make his point, he said that only 4% of mosques are radicalised. Today I heard that there are over 2,000 mosques in France. This means there are approx 80 radicalised mosques. This might be a small percentage, but that is a lot of mosques and a lot of radical Islamists. Then there will be a certain percentage that are only somewhat radical - the world isn't black and white no matter how much we would like it to be. There is a problem, and simply saying there isn't won't make it disappear.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

First of all it's but one example of many, and a particularly offensive one (to me at least) at that, coming just a few days after a brutal mass murder. The larger point is that there seems to be a fairly large segment of people in the middle east who are openly rooting for the terrorists when these kind of events happen. I'm not unsympathetic to the many reasons. What I am pointing out is that it's nonsense to suggest that this sentiment is isolated to a few extremists.

I'm not holding anyone to a higher standard. If there were a stadium half full of Americans cheering the deaths of innocents do you really think I'd be less revulsed? I can assure you I'd be a lot more pissed off about that

I told you what was about to happen just after you made the post.

These terrorist being cheered on by those weaklings in the stadium is disgusting and show's just how low people can be.
The only thing missing is someone posting up a video on how the west demonizes all Muslims. It will come as a reply to your post and everyone here will slap each other on the back and shake hands so to speak.

 

[Spawn of e]

What the posters that are dog piling RF seem to miss is what he said about words vs action. Other than sporadic instances of combatting this BS, nothing on the scale of the west, it is all just words. And, like RF said they are killing alot of muslims.

Why is that? Obviously it is because of the sentiment of the root cause. Western style liberal democracy is not compatible with the basic tenets of Islam. All religions were like this at one time, but most have evolved. People have been fighting over religion forever, it's just that Islam is the last one to emerge from this BS, and it is not to the point where respect for others and freedom still are no longer trumped by their ruthless sky buddy.

If SA for example invested the amount of $ and lives into combatting this scourge, there would be an uprising in that country. The 'cultural' respect argument is getting tired. Eventually the liberal hand wringers will need to come to that conclusion and realize that the 'culture' is the problem. The culture needs to start coinciding with liberal democracy and respecting and standing up for people to be different in peace, with ACTIONS, both combating these neanderthals and by exhibiting respect for way others choose to live their life.

Women, other religions, gays, atheists, western culture...all still fair game that only warrants mealy mouth condemnations when an atrocity happens that sheds light on sharia law. No actions required, just words. lest their 'culture' will have a hissy fit. Funny that the ones that defend this religious buffoonery the most are on the left. The political alignment is out of whack on the left, and it will eventually be shown to be a non-winner. Up is down.

 

[frenchfry]

Re:

What the posters that are dog piling RF seem to miss is what he said about words vs action. Other than sporadic instances of combatting this BS, nothing on the scale of the west, it is all just words. And, like RF said they are killing alot of muslims.

Why is that? Obviously it is because of the sentiment of the root cause. Western style liberal democracy is not compatible with the basic tenets of Islam. All religions were like this at one time, but most have evolved. People have been fighting over religion forever, it's just that Islam is the last one to emerge from this BS, and it is not to the point where respect for others and freedom still are no longer trumped by their ruthless sky buddy.

If SA for example invested the amount of $ and lives into combatting this scourge, there would be an uprising in that country. The 'cultural' respect argument is getting tired. Eventually the liberal hand wringers will need to come to that conclusion and realize that the 'culture' is the problem. The culture needs to start coinciding with liberal democracy and respecting and standing up for people to be different in peace, with ACTIONS, both combating these neanderthals and by exhibiting respect for way others choose to live their life.

Women, other religions, gays, atheists, western culture...all still fair game that only warrants mealy mouth condemnations when an atrocity happens that sheds light on sharia law. No actions required, just words. lest their 'culture' will have a hissy fit. Funny that the ones that defend this religious buffoonery the most are on the left. The political alignment is out of whack on the left, and it will eventually be shown to be a non-winner. Up is down.

Interesting analysis, a number of good points made.

 

[Spawn of e]

I don't have to be drunk in a piano bar in the Latin Quarter to come up with some coherent thoughts.

 

[frenchfry]

Re:

I don't have to be drunk in a piano bar in the Latin Quarter to come up with some coherent thoughts.

Piano bar still there, unless it has been blown up recently.

Maybe your time in Muslim country helped shape your thoughts.

I just discovered there is a curfew in a neighborhood in the city near where I live after police found guns and false papers. It wasn't reported if those in possession were "good" Muslims or "bad" Muslims. Same neighborhood where a group of well educated Arab kids torched my wife's school last year. No outrage, until classes were temporarily moved to another school 5 minutes away then outrage about inconvenience. Too far to walk when encumbered by burka?

Complicated problem, no easy solutions.

 

[Spawn of e]

Re: Re:

I don't have to be drunk in a piano bar in the Latin Quarter to come up with some coherent thoughts.

Piano bar still there, unless it has been blown up recently.

Maybe your time in Muslim country helped shape your thoughts.

I just discovered there is a curfew in a neighborhood in the city near where I live after police found guns and false papers. It wasn't reported if those in possession were "good" Muslims or "bad" Muslims. Same neighborhood where a group of well educated Arab kids torched my wife's school last year. No outrage, until classes were temporarily moved to another school 5 minutes away then outrage about inconvenience. Too far to walk when encumbered by burka?

Complicated problem, no easy solutions.

Maybe, or perhaps there is nowhere convenient to splash water on your ass and wipe with your hand if you suddenly need to take a dump.

 

[VeloCity]

Understand what you're saying but is it really any different than many American/European Catholics openly supporting the IRA, or many American/European Jews supporting terrorist acts by Israeli's, or even for that matter the "love it or leave it" never-acknowledge-wrongdoing-never-apologize-for-anything-no-matter-how-bad mentality of many Americans? It's hardly unique to Muslims and holding them to a higher standard is a bit unfair.

First of all it's but one example of many, and a particularly offensive one (to me at least) at that, coming just a few days after a brutal mass murder. The larger point is that there seems to be a fairly large segment of people in the middle east who are openly rooting for the terrorists when these kind of events happen. I'm not unsympathetic to the many reasons. What I am pointing out is that it's nonsense to suggest that this sentiment is isolated to a few extremists.

I'm not holding anyone to a higher standard. If there were a stadium half full of Americans cheering the deaths of innocents do you really think I'd be less revulsed? I can assure you I'd be a lot more pissed off about that.

There are indeed stadiums and stadiums and stadiums full of Americans who are cheering on the deaths of innocents. Read the comment sections of some right-wing blogs and political sites if you don't believe me, they're every bit as hateful and offensive as someone shouting allah akbar or whatever it is during a moment of silence.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Understand what you're saying but is it really any different than many American/European Catholics openly supporting the IRA, or many American/European Jews supporting terrorist acts by Israeli's, or even for that matter the "love it or leave it" never-acknowledge-wrongdoing-never-apologize-for-anything-no-matter-how-bad mentality of many Americans? It's hardly unique to Muslims and holding them to a higher standard is a bit unfair.

First of all it's but one example of many, and a particularly offensive one (to me at least) at that, coming just a few days after a brutal mass murder. The larger point is that there seems to be a fairly large segment of people in the middle east who are openly rooting for the terrorists when these kind of events happen. I'm not unsympathetic to the many reasons. What I am pointing out is that it's nonsense to suggest that this sentiment is isolated to a few extremists.

I'm not holding anyone to a higher standard. If there were a stadium half full of Americans cheering the deaths of innocents do you really think I'd be less revulsed? I can assure you I'd be a lot more pissed off about that.

There are indeed stadiums and stadiums and stadiums full of Americans who are cheering on the deaths of innocents. Read the comment sections of some right-wing blogs and political sites if you don't believe me, they're every bit as hateful and offensive as someone shouting allah akbar or whatever it is during a moment of silence.

Which stadiums? At what games?

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Re: Re:

I don't have to be drunk in a piano bar in the Latin Quarter to come up with some coherent thoughts.

Piano bar still there, unless it has been blown up recently.

Maybe your time in Muslim country helped shape your thoughts.

I just discovered there is a curfew in a neighborhood in the city near where I live after police found guns and false papers. It wasn't reported if those in possession were "good" Muslims or "bad" Muslims. Same neighborhood where a group of well educated Arab kids torched my wife's school last year. No outrage, until classes were temporarily moved to another school 5 minutes away then outrage about inconvenience. Too far to walk when encumbered by burka?

Complicated problem, no easy solutions.

Maybe, or perhaps there is nowhere convenient to splash water on your ass and wipe with your hand if you suddenly need to take a dump.

Both do indeed present problems.

 

[VeloCity]

Regarding so many comments in the media that "it's just a few fanatics who are perverting our religion", I wanted to post this story.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/18/world/paris-soccer-fans-turkey/?iid=ob_article_footer_expansion&iref=obinsite

Apparently during a moment of silence for the victims in Paris at a match in Istanbul between Greece and Turkey, there wasn't silence. There were chants of "Allahu akbar" during the moment.

So I get that the vast majority of muslims are decent people, as are the vast majority of any large group. I'm not asking for Syrian refugees to be barred from the US (for reasons unrelated to religion). But what I do see with some disturbing regularity is what appears to be support for acts of terrorism among many, many muslims. Cheering in the streets of some cities after 9/11 or Charlie Hebdo, this kind of thing we see in the story above. I understand that the reasons for the support are complex and have as much to do with global power as they do with religion. But what I don't see is muslims marching in protest against the attacks, I don't see muslim countries lining up to take the front lines agains the threat of Islamic terrorists. I do see and read about condemnation from many quarters, but I don't see any action.

I assume this is because there isn't great political support for it. Why not? More muslims are being killed than westerners by these cretins. Where is the outrage? Instead we get people shouting in support during a moment of silence.

It's not as simple as "they're all bad" and it's not as simple as "it's just a few extremists". Just more people talking past one another IMO.

Understand what you're saying but is it really any different than many American/European Catholics openly supporting the IRA, or many American/European Jews supporting terrorist acts by Israeli's, or even for that matter the "love it or leave it" never-acknowledge-wrongdoing-never-apologize-for-anything-no-matter-how-bad mentality of many Americans? It's hardly unique to Muslims and holding them to a higher standard is a bit unfair.

Many wrongs don't make a right.

Didn't say they did. Saying it's hardly unique.

 

[Spawn of e]

Re: Re:

I don't have to be drunk in a piano bar in the Latin Quarter to come up with some coherent thoughts.

Piano bar still there, unless it has been blown up recently.

Maybe your time in Muslim country helped shape your thoughts.

I just discovered there is a curfew in a neighborhood in the city near where I live after police found guns and false papers. It wasn't reported if those in possession were "good" Muslims or "bad" Muslims. Same neighborhood where a group of well educated Arab kids torched my wife's school last year. No outrage, until classes were temporarily moved to another school 5 minutes away then outrage about inconvenience. Too far to walk when encumbered by burka?

Complicated problem, no easy solutions.

Maybe, or perhaps there is nowhere convenient to splash water on your ass and wipe with your hand if you suddenly need to take a dump.

Both do indeed present problems.

So solution is to not blow up the school, else you find yourself not having a garden hose to wash your ass with or you tire from wearing a burka on a hot summer day. Or, we could just stop being infidels. Such a conundrum.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Re: Re:

So solution is to not blow up the school, else you find yourself not having a garden hose to wash your ass with or you tire from wearing a burka on a hot summer day. Or, we could just stop being infidels. Such a conundrum.

Probably would have been a great idea to leave the school alone. Unless they were trying to use the Core Value system then maybe they just wanted to be left behind and blew it up / burned it down.

A garden hose and Burka are just a couple of the hurdles these Muslims in France face everyday. Not to mention the goats.

 

[Spawn of e]

Re: Re:

So solution is to not blow up the school, else you find yourself not having a garden hose to wash your ass with or you tire from wearing a burka on a hot summer day. Or, we could just stop being infidels. Such a conundrum.

Probably would have been a great idea to leave the school alone. Unless they were trying to use the Core Value system then maybe they just wanted to be left behind and blew it up / burned it down.

A garden hose and Burka are just a couple of the hurdles these Muslims in France face everyday. Not to mention the goats.

Yes, many hurdles in France. This freedom of others to do what they want and the inability to stone to death women adulterers and other general shitty treatment of women are other hardships they must endure. Their chicks seem to be OK with it, but watching those infidel hotties all over Paris must be a level of blasphemy that is not easily overcome. The lack of call to prayer blasting over speakers in Paris or Lyon every few hours also piles onto the culture. Hamsterslammer will be along shortly to defend their victimhood and put this in the proper perspective, I'm sure we are missing something here Glenn.

Are goats not prevalent in France? I always enjoy Eid, it signals the end of a month of even greater laziness than normal.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Re: Re:

So solution is to not blow up the school, else you find yourself not having a garden hose to wash your ass with or you tire from wearing a burka on a hot summer day. Or, we could just stop being infidels. Such a conundrum.

Probably would have been a great idea to leave the school alone. Unless they were trying to use the Core Value system then maybe they just wanted to be left behind and blew it up / burned it down.

A garden hose and Burka are just a couple of the hurdles these Muslims in France face everyday. Not to mention the goats.

Yes, many hurdles in France. This freedom of others to do what they want and the inability to stone to death women adulterers and other general shitty treatment of women are other hardships they must endure. Their chicks seem to be OK with it, but watching those infidel hotties all over Paris must be a level of blasphemy that is not easily overcome. The lack of call to prayer blasting over speakers in Paris or Lyon every few hours also piles onto the culture. Hamsterslammer will be along shortly to defend their victimhood and put this in the proper perspective, I'm sure we are missing something here Glenn.

Are goats not prevalent in France? I always enjoy Eid, it signals the end of a month of even greater laziness than normal.

Many burdens and hurdles these muzlims face everyday. Well we did touch on the burning down of the school where FrenchFry's wife taught. Maybe they are used to raping their little girls and don't like them free schools to teach anything other than the sharia law. They are also burdened by the fact that the Lesbians and Gays are allowed to roam around free and all. They are used to rounding those folks up and lobbing off some heads.

I don't know about the goats but from what I can tell they don't just let everyone in Paris or Lyon have goats roaming the esplanades.