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Sorry, I don't watch alot of news but I don't recall Christians flying planes into buildings, shooting up cafe's, etc., generally mass scale atrocities while the remainder of the religion just mouths some platitudes about how this doesn't represent what they believe in. All the while living lives that you would find repulsive, if you were honest, which I doubt.
I know honesty in this discussion is a stretch because this reality is being mouthed on the right, albeit without thought. Hey, a *** up clock is right twice a day. Wingnuts start calling out this BS, Velocity etal defend it though if you peered past your navel, you would be repulsed of a world structured in what these 'cultures' believe in. Very predictable.
Cue Velocity etal noting the random act of christian nutjobs shooting up abortion clinics, etc. It's all the same. You win. Unfortunately while this continues, defended by the likes of you because of political points, lives are in danger. Too bad others are accountable for the BS of the politcally correct, spouting false equivalencies.
VeloCity said:
Sorry, I don't watch alot of news but I don't recall Christians flying planes into buildings, shooting up cafe's, etc., generally mass scale atrocities while the remainder of the religion just mouths some platitudes about how this doesn't represent what they believe in. All the while living lives that you would find repulsive, if you were honest, which I doubt.
I know honesty in this discussion is a stretch because this reality is being mouthed on the right, albeit without thought. Hey, a *** up clock is right twice a day. Wingnuts start calling out this BS, Velocity etal defend it though if you peered past your navel, you would be repulsed of a world structured in what these 'cultures' believe in. Very predictable.
Cue Velocity etal noting the random act of christian nutjobs shooting up abortion clinics, etc. It's all the same. You win. Unfortunately while this continues, defended by the likes of you because of political points, lives are in danger. Too bad others are accountable for the BS of the politcally correct, spouting false equivalencies.
- Dec 7, 2010
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His reply was predictable. Sorry to say many here are the same. They lack the ability to think without the political blinders on. They just want it to be something on the crazy right wing nut jobs are doing wrong.
Meanwhile like you said previously having some actual experience with trying to live in and among another culture such as the ones you find the Muzlims controlling is a eye opener.
On the other hand ---that they might not be using to wipe with ----you find them building a bomb.
His reply was predictable. Sorry to say many here are the same. They lack the ability to think without the political blinders on. They just want it to be something on the crazy right wing nut jobs are doing wrong.
Meanwhile like you said previously having some actual experience with trying to live in and among another culture such as the ones you find the Muzlims controlling is a eye opener.
On the other hand ---that they might not be using to wipe with ----you find them building a bomb.
Velocity being ***edited by mods*** is diversity you should celebrate! I'm sure he hasn't experienced what you or I have, so he should get a pass. Especially if he can slam Ted Cruz at the same time.
- Apr 3, 2009
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There is absolutely nothing random about abortion clinic shootings. They are targeted killings done by religious fantatics. The only difference is scale.
Christianity has moved on from the phase of creating religious states and warring over them, but it's had a 700 year head start on Islam.
Neither Christian or Islamic fanatics are existential threats, but it would be foolish to equate the two now. One is a major threat to our economy and our way of life. The other is a horrible side effect of our way of life and our culture, but doesn't threaten our entire economy.
Spawn of e said:
There is absolutely nothing random about abortion clinic shootings. They are targeted killings done by religious fantatics. The only difference is scale.
Christianity has moved on from the phase of creating religious states and warring over them, but it's had a 700 year head start on Islam.
Neither Christian or Islamic fanatics are existential threats, but it would be foolish to equate the two now. One is a major threat to our economy and our way of life. The other is a horrible side effect of our way of life and our culture, but doesn't threaten our entire economy.
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Well, feel free to make the argument I guess, but it seems clear you'll need to re-define what a straw man argument is to do it. Really strange statements, frankly.
I read a story on CNN and linked to it. I pointed out that the "vast majority of muslims are decent people". I gave other examples of muslims cheering for attacks on the west and noted that there are complex drivers for this kind of sentiment. I should have been more clear that I meant "muslims in the middle east" as lumping all muslims into this was incorrect. In Indonesia and many other muslim countries the culture does not support this kind of behavior, so I'm glad to clarify that. Your reaction here almost reads as if you're responding to another post.
I understand completely why Iraqi's and other people in the area would have strong anti-American feelings. They have them for good reason after suffering through what has been clearly the biggest foreign policy blunder (or crime) of my lifetime. I get it.
Frankly I've seen and heard a lot of europeans condemn the US for its foreign policy blunders, but I don't expect them to attack us. We're allies and frankly no one has any realistic chance against us. I do expect that countries in the middle east would do more than they have to combat ISIS, which is a potential existential threat to Syria, Iraq, Jordan, Lebanon, Israel and Saudi Arabia to name a few. They wait for us to deal with it because we always do. Partly our fault, partly theirs. But we can't ignore a regime which is directly threatening our cities.
At the end of the day I was appalled by the Turkish behavior and posted the article. The behavior was appalling. It does shine some light into the feelings of some in that part of the world, and denying that or explaining it away doesn't change that. I should not have conflated it with Islam in general, but attached it to the regional problems as they exist.
Well that's a fairly cowardly response which is meant to insult my views more than anything else. If you can't discuss it with me, exactly who can you discuss it with? Only people who see things exactly as you do? It's not like I'm some raving lunatic spouting nonsense. Disappointing response.
The rest of your comments made me think further about what I wrote. I think the problem here is that people are assuming malice and ignorance that isn't present. We have "sides", where one "side" won't allow for any discussion of the fact that this is an Islamic Terrorist State, by name and definition, and a few too many muslims in the region are on some level supportive of their attacks on the West. Which is understandable but still bothersome. On the other "side" you have people too quick and willing to take these facts and turn them into a very bigoted and hysterical worldview, free from self-analysis, historical context or a longer term view of foreign policy, which is exactly the reaction ISIS is looking for.
Read my posts with the correct assumption that I'm not on either of those "sides" and I doubt many here are. There is nuance to all this.
python said:
Well, feel free to make the argument I guess, but it seems clear you'll need to re-define what a straw man argument is to do it. Really strange statements, frankly.
I read a story on CNN and linked to it. I pointed out that the "vast majority of muslims are decent people". I gave other examples of muslims cheering for attacks on the west and noted that there are complex drivers for this kind of sentiment. I should have been more clear that I meant "muslims in the middle east" as lumping all muslims into this was incorrect. In Indonesia and many other muslim countries the culture does not support this kind of behavior, so I'm glad to clarify that. Your reaction here almost reads as if you're responding to another post.
I understand completely why Iraqi's and other people in the area would have strong anti-American feelings. They have them for good reason after suffering through what has been clearly the biggest foreign policy blunder (or crime) of my lifetime. I get it.
Frankly I've seen and heard a lot of europeans condemn the US for its foreign policy blunders, but I don't expect them to attack us. We're allies and frankly no one has any realistic chance against us. I do expect that countries in the middle east would do more than they have to combat ISIS, which is a potential existential threat to Syria, Iraq, Jordan, Lebanon, Israel and Saudi Arabia to name a few. They wait for us to deal with it because we always do. Partly our fault, partly theirs. But we can't ignore a regime which is directly threatening our cities.
At the end of the day I was appalled by the Turkish behavior and posted the article. The behavior was appalling. It does shine some light into the feelings of some in that part of the world, and denying that or explaining it away doesn't change that. I should not have conflated it with Islam in general, but attached it to the regional problems as they exist.
Well that's a fairly cowardly response which is meant to insult my views more than anything else. If you can't discuss it with me, exactly who can you discuss it with? Only people who see things exactly as you do? It's not like I'm some raving lunatic spouting nonsense. Disappointing response.
The rest of your comments made me think further about what I wrote. I think the problem here is that people are assuming malice and ignorance that isn't present. We have "sides", where one "side" won't allow for any discussion of the fact that this is an Islamic Terrorist State, by name and definition, and a few too many muslims in the region are on some level supportive of their attacks on the West. Which is understandable but still bothersome. On the other "side" you have people too quick and willing to take these facts and turn them into a very bigoted and hysterical worldview, free from self-analysis, historical context or a longer term view of foreign policy, which is exactly the reaction ISIS is looking for.
Read my posts with the correct assumption that I'm not on either of those "sides" and I doubt many here are. There is nuance to all this.
- Jul 4, 2009
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Sorry, I don't watch alot of news but I don't recall Christians flying planes into buildings, shooting up cafe's, etc., generally mass scale atrocities while the remainder of the religion just mouths some platitudes about how this doesn't represent what they believe in. All the while living lives that you would find repulsive, if you were honest, which I doubt.
I know honesty in this discussion is a stretch because this reality is being mouthed on the right, albeit without thought. Hey, a **** up clock is right twice a day. Wingnuts start calling out this BS, Velocity etal defend it though if you peered past your navel, you would be repulsed of a world structured in what these 'cultures' believe in. Very predictable.
Cue Velocity etal noting the random act of christian nutjobs shooting up abortion clinics, etc. It's all the same. You win. Unfortunately while this continues, defended by the likes of you because of political points, lives are in danger. Too bad others are accountable for the BS of the politcally correct, spouting false equivalencies.[/quote]
....of course not, they have cruise missiles, smart bombs, and other shiny expensive ordinance to do that sort of thing ( and there is this weird thing about blowing weddings to bits with drone stuff )....or sometimes just to change things up and keep everyone on their toes they just shoot up a hospital with something nicknamed Puff the Magic Dragon ( now isn't that so sweet, adding a bit of cute to the job of slaughtering people ...)...
...and as long as we are talking Puff....does anyone know how Puff would survive in an environment where the adversary has access to modern war toys like radar, ack ack and/or MANPADs..?....or is it a weapon just for third and fourth world situations...?....
Cheers
Sorry, I don't watch alot of news but I don't recall Christians flying planes into buildings, shooting up cafe's, etc., generally mass scale atrocities while the remainder of the religion just mouths some platitudes about how this doesn't represent what they believe in. All the while living lives that you would find repulsive, if you were honest, which I doubt.
I know honesty in this discussion is a stretch because this reality is being mouthed on the right, albeit without thought. Hey, a **** up clock is right twice a day. Wingnuts start calling out this BS, Velocity etal defend it though if you peered past your navel, you would be repulsed of a world structured in what these 'cultures' believe in. Very predictable.
Cue Velocity etal noting the random act of christian nutjobs shooting up abortion clinics, etc. It's all the same. You win. Unfortunately while this continues, defended by the likes of you because of political points, lives are in danger. Too bad others are accountable for the BS of the politcally correct, spouting false equivalencies.[/quote]
....of course not, they have cruise missiles, smart bombs, and other shiny expensive ordinance to do that sort of thing ( and there is this weird thing about blowing weddings to bits with drone stuff )....or sometimes just to change things up and keep everyone on their toes they just shoot up a hospital with something nicknamed Puff the Magic Dragon ( now isn't that so sweet, adding a bit of cute to the job of slaughtering people ...)...
...and as long as we are talking Puff....does anyone know how Puff would survive in an environment where the adversary has access to modern war toys like radar, ack ack and/or MANPADs..?....or is it a weapon just for third and fourth world situations...?....
Cheers
- Sep 10, 2009
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/spain/8622688/ETA-timeline-list-of-attacks-by-Basque-separatist-group.html
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2011/05/16/uk-britain-security-bombings-idUKTRE74F31Q20110516
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/corsican-terror-group-lays-down-arms-in-battle-for-independence-from-france-9569569.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_terrorism
We can go on if you like. We can also do the same for Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, any religion you'd prefer. Fundamentalist Christianity, as do most religions, espouses many of the same questionable "values" as does Islam toward women, gays, what's taught in schools, you name it. Pretending otherwise is being willfully blind. All fundamentalist extremism should be condemned yet you'd prefer to turn a blind eye to some and demonize others. That's where we differ - I have no issue with demonizing all of them equally. An act of terror is an act of terror, I don't give a flying f**k if it's Muslims flying planes into buildings or an ETA car bomb or Hindu Saffron terror cells, all the same to me, and probably to the victims as well. Apparently in your world not all terror is the same or should be condemned equally.
As I've said several times before, I am repulsed by the thought of a world "structured" under the aegis of any religion, bar none, be it Islam, Christianity, Judaism, whatever.
You should probably pay closer attention then.Spawn of e said:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/spain/8622688/ETA-timeline-list-of-attacks-by-Basque-separatist-group.html
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2011/05/16/uk-britain-security-bombings-idUKTRE74F31Q20110516
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/corsican-terror-group-lays-down-arms-in-battle-for-independence-from-france-9569569.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_terrorism
We can go on if you like. We can also do the same for Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, any religion you'd prefer. Fundamentalist Christianity, as do most religions, espouses many of the same questionable "values" as does Islam toward women, gays, what's taught in schools, you name it. Pretending otherwise is being willfully blind. All fundamentalist extremism should be condemned yet you'd prefer to turn a blind eye to some and demonize others. That's where we differ - I have no issue with demonizing all of them equally. An act of terror is an act of terror, I don't give a flying f**k if it's Muslims flying planes into buildings or an ETA car bomb or Hindu Saffron terror cells, all the same to me, and probably to the victims as well. Apparently in your world not all terror is the same or should be condemned equally.
As I've said several times before, I am repulsed by the thought of a world "structured" under the aegis of any religion, bar none, be it Islam, Christianity, Judaism, whatever.
- Sep 10, 2009
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[quote="Jspear]
[quote="Jspear]
What exactly are the differences between the teachings of fundamentalist Islam and fundamentalist Christianity regarding women/women's rights, homosexuals, science, secularism, religious infallibility, what should be taught in schools, believers in other religions, and so on? Can't say I see much daylight between the two.
- Jul 4, 2009
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Many burdens and hurdles these muzlims face everyday.
Well we did touch on the burning down of the school where FrenchFry's wife taught ( now if we change school to Black Churches what do you get..a long standing Merikan tradition ).
Maybe they are used to raping their little girls ( why I heard somewhere that was just standard operating procedure among Merikan hillbilly good ole boys... )
..... and don't like them free schools to teach anything other than the sharia law ( as opposed to say evolution, science or history in Merika ).
They are also burdened by the fact that the Lesbians and Gays are allowed to roam around free and all ( yeah drives them thar fundamentalist hillbillies all buggy eyed and makes em go mental...and puts evil thoughts in their heads... ).
They are used to rounding those folks up and lobbing off some heads.( make that black folks and change lobbing off to lynching and bingo another long standing Merikan tradition )....
Cheers
Glenn_Wilson said:
Many burdens and hurdles these muzlims face everyday.
Well we did touch on the burning down of the school where FrenchFry's wife taught ( now if we change school to Black Churches what do you get..a long standing Merikan tradition ).
Maybe they are used to raping their little girls ( why I heard somewhere that was just standard operating procedure among Merikan hillbilly good ole boys... )
..... and don't like them free schools to teach anything other than the sharia law ( as opposed to say evolution, science or history in Merika ).
They are also burdened by the fact that the Lesbians and Gays are allowed to roam around free and all ( yeah drives them thar fundamentalist hillbillies all buggy eyed and makes em go mental...and puts evil thoughts in their heads... ).
They are used to rounding those folks up and lobbing off some heads.( make that black folks and change lobbing off to lynching and bingo another long standing Merikan tradition )....
Cheers
- Feb 23, 2014
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Fundamental Christianity would say "Love your neighbor as yourself."
Violence is antithetical to this statement. I think your problem is you don't understand what fundamental Christianity is. It could of course be discussed further in the religion thread.
VeloCity said:
Fundamental Christianity would say "Love your neighbor as yourself."
Violence is antithetical to this statement. I think your problem is you don't understand what fundamental Christianity is. It could of course be discussed further in the religion thread.
- Dec 7, 2010
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Would have been nice to read the personal attack part. Chris you have to tread lightly with Velo because he is a weakling when it comes to these debates within the realm of the worlds problems. He hates religion like you and I but he much more like ole girl rosey O and her hate for dem durr Christian fanatics and the attacks on Christmas plots.Spawn of e said:
- Apr 3, 2009
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Integration is a two-way street. If either or both sides are inflexible about the differences, you will have a certain lack of assimilation.
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It seems fairly obvious that most people understand the basic tenets of Christianity such as the one you quote.
It also seems fairly obvious that violence by religious extremists includes violence perpetrated by fundamentalist Christians who espouse things like "biblical literacy" (as if that's possible) and "biblical inerrancy". "Fundamentalist" is a well understood term describing a certain viewpoint.
You can't change the definition of words to deflect a point.
Jspear said:
It seems fairly obvious that most people understand the basic tenets of Christianity such as the one you quote.
It also seems fairly obvious that violence by religious extremists includes violence perpetrated by fundamentalist Christians who espouse things like "biblical literacy" (as if that's possible) and "biblical inerrancy". "Fundamentalist" is a well understood term describing a certain viewpoint.
You can't change the definition of words to deflect a point.
- Apr 3, 2009
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Some very good points. One point of contention though is the addition of the Basque and Corsican separatists groups into a discussion of Christian terrorism. These are groups primarily motivated by political, nationalists issues rather than religion. The Basques tend to be extreme leftists or even Marxist if I recall.
Not that there aren't examples of terrorism by Christians motivated by religion, but not sure why you're lumping these groups into it. I see the same on other social media all the time now, people lumping right-wing anti-government terrorists into the "Christian terrorist" bucket because some of these people may happen to also be Christian, but clearly the primary drivers are political and not religious. Weakens the point. Confuses the discussion. Keeps people away from gaining understanding.
VeloCity said:
Some very good points. One point of contention though is the addition of the Basque and Corsican separatists groups into a discussion of Christian terrorism. These are groups primarily motivated by political, nationalists issues rather than religion. The Basques tend to be extreme leftists or even Marxist if I recall.
Not that there aren't examples of terrorism by Christians motivated by religion, but not sure why you're lumping these groups into it. I see the same on other social media all the time now, people lumping right-wing anti-government terrorists into the "Christian terrorist" bucket because some of these people may happen to also be Christian, but clearly the primary drivers are political and not religious. Weakens the point. Confuses the discussion. Keeps people away from gaining understanding.
- Dec 7, 2010
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So how many abortion clinic mass shootings have there been in the past 10 years.
700 year head start ho hum we could get these guys up to speed but that is not where they want to be. The FACT that you ignore that is appalling and telling.
Yadah yadah .red_flanders said:
So how many abortion clinic mass shootings have there been in the past 10 years.
700 year head start ho hum we could get these guys up to speed but that is not where they want to be. The FACT that you ignore that is appalling and telling.
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I'm ignoring that they're not where we want them to be? No idea how you get that. Or I don't understand your point.
Glenn_Wilson said:
I'm ignoring that they're not where we want them to be? No idea how you get that. Or I don't understand your point.
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hey don't look now but some other radicals have gotten loose in Mali. I would guess there is a shortage of goats in mali to keep the radicals entertained. YMMV
The dumb Christians were trapped in a age with no communication and lack of democracy. The fact that it is modern times with communication everywhere tends me to belive these guys da radical muzlims want to live that way regardless of the world and respect and understanding for each others rights.red_flanders said:
hey don't look now but some other radicals have gotten loose in Mali. I would guess there is a shortage of goats in mali to keep the radicals entertained. YMMV
- Apr 3, 2009
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This sounds absolutely amazing to me. It always seemed to me that the Loyalists had been gaining ground over the rebel by autumn 2013. The rebels lost the support from Western nations at that time, the House of Commons in the UK voted against a direct intervention (thanks Mr Galloway!), etc. The Assad regime was definitely at his highest. Kerry was then negotiating with Lavrov for a military deal, he surrendered. Western media provisionally stopped talking about Syria. Very soon they would switch to Ukraine (it seems that ISIS armement partly comes from Ukraine via Turkey, needs verif though).
Isis appeared by January 2014. The period that established themselves as "THE sunny authority on Jihad" (sic) is January to June 2014. Since then, they relentlessly attacked the regime. The second Battle of Raqqa (January to February 2014) even showed the Al Nusra Front being very quick to ask for a ceasefire. By July the latter reoriented their fight against the loyalists instead of Isis but in the meantime many Al Nusra members joined Isis (though the opposite is also true).
I've never lost side of the fact that Israel's ultimate aim is the "Greater Israel" which goes from the Nile to the Euphrate river. It's on the Israeli coin. The plan by Oded Yinon is known to the public (map available on the net). I note that the Isil map of the "Caliphate" (sic) [not exactly but to some extent]. Israel in its present-day borders is not viable, too small, not enough natural resources, it's a desert and that's why they are dépendent from the USA. But the day the American people realise that their foreign policy of unconditional support for Israel runs against their own interest (because that's a fact, the US have no interest in hostility towards Iran for example, it's just all Israeli control of the US foreign policy towards the Middle East), then Israel is done. So the aim is for them to get independent from the US material support and extended their territory (Israel is the only country in the world whose territory is not clearly defined in the constitution).
Let us remember that ISIL is an American creation. We have comments from the former head of the DIA - Lt General Michael Flynn -, from General Wesley Clark, from French General Vincent Desportes (so not lunatic CT, right?), from Edward Snowden, we got declassified documents from the DIA to support this. Denying it is like denying there's doping in cycling.
Let us remember that ISIL is NOT Islamic at all. That's just for the show. Fact is that their main leaders are former officers in Saddam Hussein's army, which means a secular army. Bagdadi is one of them but a quick look at their organization chart and you realise that they are all secularists, formerly serving the Iraqi Baa'th party.
It all started in an American prison camp in Iraq. The US retrained them. Just like they retrained former SS and Wehrmacht leaders after 1945 (remember Werner von Braun, Klaus Barbie, Walter Hallstein, ...).
UK is secular. Only element of religiosity is that the Queen reigns by Divine rights, but since she's got no power at all, it's just a joke. The BBC is the most violently and ridiculously Christophobic broadcaster I've ever seen. It's Jimmy Saville's channel, remember.
The USA are secularists and Freemasonic in their institution. That's why they want to dominate the whole world.
Jewishness is an ethnicity that is handed down by the mother. You can be Jewish and Christian at the same time, you can be Jewish and Muslim at the same time, you can be Jewish and atheist at the same time. As it happens, Israel was created by Marxist atheists and secularists (read Chaim Weizmann) and all the Jewish intellectuals who are currently breaking my balls by making us feel solidary to Israel in their conflict with the Arab nations are secularists (Jewish intellectuals in Europe, I mean or in the US). The "religious" Jews are anti-Zionist because according to the Torah, the Jewish State should only come in the Messianic era and the Messiah hasn't come yet (according to them).
There's no difference between Apartheid South Africa and present-day Israel.
Yes sure. You are comfortably living in the West, in the USA, so you are unaware of the massive terrorist attack perpetrated by Atheistic/secular regimes (such as your own country). I've already cited them all but well, ever talked to a Hiroshima survivor ??? Ever been to Vietnam? Because atheistic/secularist terrorism does not cause hundreds of dead each attack, it counts by thousands or millions ...
So stop this crap.
I don't see why? Violence is sometimes necessary. To defend ourselves, to achieve justice. When Jesus kicked the merchants off of the Temple, one may argue He was being violent. Does not change the fact He is the perfect embodiment of Love.
Christians are not hippies. Muslims often blame us for being push-overs because Jesus was too peaceful. I'd always reply with the Mt 23:13-33 speech: "Woe unto you, Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites." That's Christ. Christ is not just "turning the cheek". He's also a fighter. That's why all the Mexican peones fought in the name of Christ against anticlerical governments between 1914 & ~1930.
hrotha said:
This sounds absolutely amazing to me. It always seemed to me that the Loyalists had been gaining ground over the rebel by autumn 2013. The rebels lost the support from Western nations at that time, the House of Commons in the UK voted against a direct intervention (thanks Mr Galloway!), etc. The Assad regime was definitely at his highest. Kerry was then negotiating with Lavrov for a military deal, he surrendered. Western media provisionally stopped talking about Syria. Very soon they would switch to Ukraine (it seems that ISIS armement partly comes from Ukraine via Turkey, needs verif though).
Isis appeared by January 2014. The period that established themselves as "THE sunny authority on Jihad" (sic) is January to June 2014. Since then, they relentlessly attacked the regime. The second Battle of Raqqa (January to February 2014) even showed the Al Nusra Front being very quick to ask for a ceasefire. By July the latter reoriented their fight against the loyalists instead of Isis but in the meantime many Al Nusra members joined Isis (though the opposite is also true).
I've never lost side of the fact that Israel's ultimate aim is the "Greater Israel" which goes from the Nile to the Euphrate river. It's on the Israeli coin. The plan by Oded Yinon is known to the public (map available on the net). I note that the Isil map of the "Caliphate" (sic) [not exactly but to some extent]. Israel in its present-day borders is not viable, too small, not enough natural resources, it's a desert and that's why they are dépendent from the USA. But the day the American people realise that their foreign policy of unconditional support for Israel runs against their own interest (because that's a fact, the US have no interest in hostility towards Iran for example, it's just all Israeli control of the US foreign policy towards the Middle East), then Israel is done. So the aim is for them to get independent from the US material support and extended their territory (Israel is the only country in the world whose territory is not clearly defined in the constitution).
Let us remember that ISIL is an American creation. We have comments from the former head of the DIA - Lt General Michael Flynn -, from General Wesley Clark, from French General Vincent Desportes (so not lunatic CT, right?), from Edward Snowden, we got declassified documents from the DIA to support this. Denying it is like denying there's doping in cycling.
Let us remember that ISIL is NOT Islamic at all. That's just for the show. Fact is that their main leaders are former officers in Saddam Hussein's army, which means a secular army. Bagdadi is one of them but a quick look at their organization chart and you realise that they are all secularists, formerly serving the Iraqi Baa'th party.
It all started in an American prison camp in Iraq. The US retrained them. Just like they retrained former SS and Wehrmacht leaders after 1945 (remember Werner von Braun, Klaus Barbie, Walter Hallstein, ...).
Brullnux said:
UK is secular. Only element of religiosity is that the Queen reigns by Divine rights, but since she's got no power at all, it's just a joke. The BBC is the most violently and ridiculously Christophobic broadcaster I've ever seen. It's Jimmy Saville's channel, remember.
The USA are secularists and Freemasonic in their institution. That's why they want to dominate the whole world.
Jewishness is an ethnicity that is handed down by the mother. You can be Jewish and Christian at the same time, you can be Jewish and Muslim at the same time, you can be Jewish and atheist at the same time. As it happens, Israel was created by Marxist atheists and secularists (read Chaim Weizmann) and all the Jewish intellectuals who are currently breaking my balls by making us feel solidary to Israel in their conflict with the Arab nations are secularists (Jewish intellectuals in Europe, I mean or in the US). The "religious" Jews are anti-Zionist because according to the Torah, the Jewish State should only come in the Messianic era and the Messiah hasn't come yet (according to them).
There's no difference between Apartheid South Africa and present-day Israel.
VeloCity said:
Yes sure. You are comfortably living in the West, in the USA, so you are unaware of the massive terrorist attack perpetrated by Atheistic/secular regimes (such as your own country). I've already cited them all but well, ever talked to a Hiroshima survivor ??? Ever been to Vietnam? Because atheistic/secularist terrorism does not cause hundreds of dead each attack, it counts by thousands or millions ...
So stop this crap.
Jspear said:
I don't see why? Violence is sometimes necessary. To defend ourselves, to achieve justice. When Jesus kicked the merchants off of the Temple, one may argue He was being violent. Does not change the fact He is the perfect embodiment of Love.
Christians are not hippies. Muslims often blame us for being push-overs because Jesus was too peaceful. I'd always reply with the Mt 23:13-33 speech: "Woe unto you, Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites." That's Christ. Christ is not just "turning the cheek". He's also a fighter. That's why all the Mexican peones fought in the name of Christ against anticlerical governments between 1914 & ~1930.
- Jul 4, 2009
- 9,666
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Re: Re:
....so what you are sayin' then is the real problem that Mooselims have with the Crusades is that they weren't brutal enough, just a mamby pamby peaceful holiday excursion to see some sites they were then...
....well that clears up a heap of mysteries....
Cheers
Echoes said:
....so what you are sayin' then is the real problem that Mooselims have with the Crusades is that they weren't brutal enough, just a mamby pamby peaceful holiday excursion to see some sites they were then...
....well that clears up a heap of mysteries....
Cheers
- Jul 23, 2009
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