Ah, yes, the well-known free-speech hub Russia. Where if you are openly gay and criticise Putin you are fired from your job as a news anchor. Ever thought that the 'imperialists' from the USA and the Russian elite are two sides of the same coin? I am never sure if you, blutto, support these things or post them just for debate and a different perspective. Putin is a tyrannical beast. The US are wrong to have their ships and aircraft so close to Russia, but that does not change that fact.
- Status
- May 14, 2010
- 5,303
- 4
- 0
Blutto, wasn't there a big spate of stories a few years back about Putin shutting down TV stations, critical magazines/newspapers, and investigative journalists? Not saying that hasn't happened in the US, but still it seems there was a concerted effort under Putin to bring them to heel. Correct?
- Jul 4, 2009
- 9,666
- 0
- 0
Re:
....and not a true believer in the normal black/white manner in which Western media often report things...and of the opinion that Western media at their worst is no better than the worst of the old USSR ( the reporting by the Western media on the glorious revolution, for instance, is just low grade propaganda that only the brain dead would swallow uncritically )....
...or put another way, I am the son of parents who survived the Stalinist USSR and I have a pretty good appreciation of the horrors that were part of my parent's early lives....but even given that , or maybe because of that, I do have a grudging respect for much of what Putin has done ( and please do remember that Putin's rise to power owes a great deal to the way in which the West treated Russia after the dissolution of the USSR...) and you probably have no idea how hard that is for someone of Ukrainian ancestry to say that ( and very strange given that the USSR was not Russia, and Stalin was Georgian...but there is lots of ugly history in this area and it infects everybody and everything, me included ).... .so is Putin perfect ?, a role model ?, well no, but he has made Russia much better for the average Russian citizen than what it was when he first rose to power ( that recent US presidents could say the same )...
Cheers
Brullnux said:
....and not a true believer in the normal black/white manner in which Western media often report things...and of the opinion that Western media at their worst is no better than the worst of the old USSR ( the reporting by the Western media on the glorious revolution, for instance, is just low grade propaganda that only the brain dead would swallow uncritically )....
...or put another way, I am the son of parents who survived the Stalinist USSR and I have a pretty good appreciation of the horrors that were part of my parent's early lives....but even given that , or maybe because of that, I do have a grudging respect for much of what Putin has done ( and please do remember that Putin's rise to power owes a great deal to the way in which the West treated Russia after the dissolution of the USSR...) and you probably have no idea how hard that is for someone of Ukrainian ancestry to say that ( and very strange given that the USSR was not Russia, and Stalin was Georgian...but there is lots of ugly history in this area and it infects everybody and everything, me included ).... .so is Putin perfect ?, a role model ?, well no, but he has made Russia much better for the average Russian citizen than what it was when he first rose to power ( that recent US presidents could say the same )...
Cheers
- Jul 30, 2011
- 7,645
- 150
- 17,680
Re: Re:
Even that article we discussed awhile back--which was programmatic and naive in some ways--suggested a more fluid media situation. The Pussy Riot accounts imply the same--when there's a stake.
blutto said:
Even that article we discussed awhile back--which was programmatic and naive in some ways--suggested a more fluid media situation. The Pussy Riot accounts imply the same--when there's a stake.
- May 14, 2010
- 5,303
- 4
- 0
There was a story a few months back about a Russian performance artist, Pyotr Pavlensky, who set fire to a big wooden door at the headquarters of the FSB (successor to the KGB). After he got the fire going, he stood with his back to the door, fuel can in hand, waiting to be arrested. He entitled his action The Burning Door of the Lubyanka.
Upon his arrest he was charged with hooliganism. Now, for contrast, imagine an artist trying this at CIA headquarters, and what he'd be charged with. Presuming he lived to be charged, of course.
Upon his arrest he was charged with hooliganism. Now, for contrast, imagine an artist trying this at CIA headquarters, and what he'd be charged with. Presuming he lived to be charged, of course.
- Jul 30, 2011
- 7,645
- 150
- 17,680
Might be more substantial than a malicious mischief charge.
In general though, performance art in the former Soviet Countries (and China) has a long history of being one of the only survivable forms of dissent. It was mostly illegible in Western countries. Ironic that it's now much more fraught. Part of that has to do with "security/terror" issues, but also as coming after Occupy. It's also a highly loaded practice in Central and South America.
In general though, performance art in the former Soviet Countries (and China) has a long history of being one of the only survivable forms of dissent. It was mostly illegible in Western countries. Ironic that it's now much more fraught. Part of that has to do with "security/terror" issues, but also as coming after Occupy. It's also a highly loaded practice in Central and South America.
- Aug 5, 2009
- 15,733
- 8,136
- 28,180
Re: Re:
I am not sure the average Russian or Ukrainian would agree with you at the moment. It is desperate times for many people in both countries but of course the problems with economies are outside Putin's control largely. This is why I am surprised that Russia has become so involved in Syria. Their defence spending is probably not helping and according to some experts neither is their military. But of course when Communism collapsed it was even more desperate. Putin has no real opposition at at the moment and will probably be around until he drops or until he decides it's time to rest up.
blutto said:
I am not sure the average Russian or Ukrainian would agree with you at the moment. It is desperate times for many people in both countries but of course the problems with economies are outside Putin's control largely. This is why I am surprised that Russia has become so involved in Syria. Their defence spending is probably not helping and according to some experts neither is their military. But of course when Communism collapsed it was even more desperate. Putin has no real opposition at at the moment and will probably be around until he drops or until he decides it's time to rest up.
- Jul 4, 2009
- 9,666
- 0
- 0
Re: Re:
...bunching together Russia and The Ukraine is a little odd....it does make for good theatre but the reality is that the per capita income of one is 4x that of the other....would be interesting how many from the 4x side would trade places with someone on the 1x side ( and do keep in mind the 1x side is crashing big time and the situation next year may be even more dire )...
Cheers
movingtarget said:
...bunching together Russia and The Ukraine is a little odd....it does make for good theatre but the reality is that the per capita income of one is 4x that of the other....would be interesting how many from the 4x side would trade places with someone on the 1x side ( and do keep in mind the 1x side is crashing big time and the situation next year may be even more dire )...
Cheers
- Aug 5, 2009
- 15,733
- 8,136
- 28,180
Re: Re:
No one is trying to be theatrical and I know one one is better off than the other but there is a lot of suffering going on in both countries more so in Ukraine of course. People were crossing the border for a reason. I have friends in Ukraine and they try to sound hopeful but often it seems it's too painful to talk about or too depressing. For the older ones it's too late or too upsetting to consider going elsewhere and they want to remain near their families but for the younger ones a percentage of them anyway just can't see a future and are trying to get out.
blutto said:
No one is trying to be theatrical and I know one one is better off than the other but there is a lot of suffering going on in both countries more so in Ukraine of course. People were crossing the border for a reason. I have friends in Ukraine and they try to sound hopeful but often it seems it's too painful to talk about or too depressing. For the older ones it's too late or too upsetting to consider going elsewhere and they want to remain near their families but for the younger ones a percentage of them anyway just can't see a future and are trying to get out.
- Sep 25, 2009
- 7,527
- 1
- 0
Re:
he's more like a traditional for those lands autocrat, an omnipotent tsar 2.0. if put simply, in the eyes of his subjects - and this is consistently misunderstood in the west - he's a benevolent ruler who cares for them.
we continue to get it wrong time and again b/c we have this arrogant way of looking at others social constructs from the point of our perceived superiority in values.
read any serious, unbiased research...while gorbachev is considered the greatest by us, he's massively hated there. by the same token, yeltsin is often cheered here as the '1st and true' democratic president, while to the russians he's the one who lead them into economic chaos and instability.
his popularity among the russians is real. that's what fits them and that's how i wish we look at - and coop with - the phenomena however unfitting it may be for our way of living.
a tyrannical beast for sure was stalin. perhaps lenin. but this hyperbola imo does not fit vlad.Brullnux said:
he's more like a traditional for those lands autocrat, an omnipotent tsar 2.0. if put simply, in the eyes of his subjects - and this is consistently misunderstood in the west - he's a benevolent ruler who cares for them.
we continue to get it wrong time and again b/c we have this arrogant way of looking at others social constructs from the point of our perceived superiority in values.
read any serious, unbiased research...while gorbachev is considered the greatest by us, he's massively hated there. by the same token, yeltsin is often cheered here as the '1st and true' democratic president, while to the russians he's the one who lead them into economic chaos and instability.
his popularity among the russians is real. that's what fits them and that's how i wish we look at - and coop with - the phenomena however unfitting it may be for our way of living.
- Aug 5, 2009
- 15,733
- 8,136
- 28,180
Re: Re:
This may be true of the average Russian but for people who want to criticize Putin within Russia as journalists or politicians at a regional level or a national level the Western perspective is meaningless because the information comes from the critics themselves how they have been harassed out of the country or the region or worse. Maybe the trail does not lead directly back to the Kremlin in some cases but the Russian opposition or what is left of it is in no doubt who the puppet master is and this is different to the flawed democracy of countries like the USA. Putin has said more than few times that the end of the USSR was tragedy and for him personally there was no greater so there is no doubt where he stands politically.
python said:
This may be true of the average Russian but for people who want to criticize Putin within Russia as journalists or politicians at a regional level or a national level the Western perspective is meaningless because the information comes from the critics themselves how they have been harassed out of the country or the region or worse. Maybe the trail does not lead directly back to the Kremlin in some cases but the Russian opposition or what is left of it is in no doubt who the puppet master is and this is different to the flawed democracy of countries like the USA. Putin has said more than few times that the end of the USSR was tragedy and for him personally there was no greater so there is no doubt where he stands politically.
Yes, I've long had admiration for Putin for the way he kicked off the "Oligarchs" who had robbed the country under drunkard Eltsin (Berezowsky, Cherney, Khodorkowsky, ...) and who started expanding under Gorby.
Yet I note that Putin campaigns for a Eurasian Economic Union (EEU or EAEU) that would stretch from Lisbon to Vladivostok and which he wishes to be supranational, just like the European Union is supranational. That would work against the interest of the Russian people. Besides, Putin had ties with American banksters, such as Morgan Stanley (though the deal between Rosneft & Morgan Stanley seemed to have been scuttled) and most Russian assets are still in American/Western banks, aren't they?
But well, since he released the P*ssy Riots, praised Sepp Blatter and organised the Winter Olympics, I guess I've lost part of my respect for Putin. In my opinion he hasn't brought the antidote for the 1917 revolution. They system has only molted from state capitalism to private capitalism but the Orthodox Holy Russia hasn't been revived.
Stalin was a tyrant. So was Lenin but the worst of them all definitely was Trotsky. I can't understand or actually yes I do understand why Stalin is now seen as a monster even among left-wing circles : "Hitler painted in red", etc. Not wrongly so! But Trotsky who massacred marines in Kronstadt 1921 is still seen as a hero. Trotsky who started the NEP, making it possible for speculators to make money. I mean, Hitchens called him the symbol of the "left-wing resistance to Stalin" (sic). It's crazy but not surprising after all. Trotsky has as much blood on his hands than Stalin does.
Yet I note that Putin campaigns for a Eurasian Economic Union (EEU or EAEU) that would stretch from Lisbon to Vladivostok and which he wishes to be supranational, just like the European Union is supranational. That would work against the interest of the Russian people. Besides, Putin had ties with American banksters, such as Morgan Stanley (though the deal between Rosneft & Morgan Stanley seemed to have been scuttled) and most Russian assets are still in American/Western banks, aren't they?
But well, since he released the P*ssy Riots, praised Sepp Blatter and organised the Winter Olympics, I guess I've lost part of my respect for Putin. In my opinion he hasn't brought the antidote for the 1917 revolution. They system has only molted from state capitalism to private capitalism but the Orthodox Holy Russia hasn't been revived.
Stalin was a tyrant. So was Lenin but the worst of them all definitely was Trotsky. I can't understand or actually yes I do understand why Stalin is now seen as a monster even among left-wing circles : "Hitler painted in red", etc. Not wrongly so! But Trotsky who massacred marines in Kronstadt 1921 is still seen as a hero. Trotsky who started the NEP, making it possible for speculators to make money. I mean, Hitchens called him the symbol of the "left-wing resistance to Stalin" (sic). It's crazy but not surprising after all. Trotsky has as much blood on his hands than Stalin does.
- Jul 30, 2011
- 7,645
- 150
- 17,680
- Sep 25, 2009
- 7,527
- 1
- 0
Re: Re:
the point of my post was that the western standards and values should NOT be automatically assumed as optimum for others.
many of those we were NEVER told were/are in opposition to putin, are in fact anarchists, religious fanatics, extreme nationalists, militarists, neo-nazis etc.
the opposition that we DO hear about are several unpopular individuals that believe in in a pro-western direction for russia. that's fair, but for what it's worth, the majority of russians consider them discredited when they look back at the results of rapid privatization under the yeltsin's american consultants. undoubtedly, the putin pr machine gets a lot of mileage here, but for the simple people what matters is stability and jobs vs the hypothetical western freedoms. and to begin with, like in poland for instance, a lot of them are conservative, deeply religious and 'old-fashioned'. putin no doubt nurtures this and feeds off it...
i strongly recommend reading this piece by a pole whose sympathy isn't pro-russian. for sure, not !:
Why the West is Not Ready for a Democratic Russia
http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/why-the-west-not-ready-democratic-russia-16056
i think it would be incorrect to deny some facts. as i once already noted, there is imo more competitive and electoral democracy in such a 'tyrannical' country like iran than russia. and even the latest objects of my consistent criticism - the sultan and his sultanate - with their real political opposition and the powerful independent trade unions, despite all the erdogan efforts, can claim more democracy than the vlad's modelmovingtarget said:
the point of my post was that the western standards and values should NOT be automatically assumed as optimum for others.
many of those we were NEVER told were/are in opposition to putin, are in fact anarchists, religious fanatics, extreme nationalists, militarists, neo-nazis etc.
the opposition that we DO hear about are several unpopular individuals that believe in in a pro-western direction for russia. that's fair, but for what it's worth, the majority of russians consider them discredited when they look back at the results of rapid privatization under the yeltsin's american consultants. undoubtedly, the putin pr machine gets a lot of mileage here, but for the simple people what matters is stability and jobs vs the hypothetical western freedoms. and to begin with, like in poland for instance, a lot of them are conservative, deeply religious and 'old-fashioned'. putin no doubt nurtures this and feeds off it...
i strongly recommend reading this piece by a pole whose sympathy isn't pro-russian. for sure, not !:
Why the West is Not Ready for a Democratic Russia
http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/why-the-west-not-ready-democratic-russia-16056
- Jul 30, 2011
- 7,645
- 150
- 17,680
On the matter of Christian values in Russia and the press
"The relationship between Russia and Europe is often – on both sides – described as a conflict of values: in one version it is the traditional bastion Russia vs decadent Gayropa; in another it is the bureaucratic but lawful Brussels labyrinth vs the autocratic Kremlin matrix where "nothing is true and everything is possible", as Peter Pomerantsev puts it in his analysis of the value-laden nihilism of Putin's Russia. It is in the context of this media-driven hybrid war that Putin's chief spin doctor Dmitry Kiselyov, without the slightest hesitation or irony, can claim that Swedish children are encouraged to have sex from the age of nine. "Fortunately", Kiselyov added in the weekly show Vesti on the state television channel Rossiya, "they suffer from erectile dysfunction from the age of twelve. European values by all means – that's the way it works". Or as Russia's foreign minister Sergey Lavrov recently commented: "If the West's view of human rights develops towards general licentiousness, they are ignoring the fact that this is contrary to the foundations of our culture, which are based on orthodox religion – Christianity."
"The relationship between Russia and Europe is often – on both sides – described as a conflict of values: in one version it is the traditional bastion Russia vs decadent Gayropa; in another it is the bureaucratic but lawful Brussels labyrinth vs the autocratic Kremlin matrix where "nothing is true and everything is possible", as Peter Pomerantsev puts it in his analysis of the value-laden nihilism of Putin's Russia. It is in the context of this media-driven hybrid war that Putin's chief spin doctor Dmitry Kiselyov, without the slightest hesitation or irony, can claim that Swedish children are encouraged to have sex from the age of nine. "Fortunately", Kiselyov added in the weekly show Vesti on the state television channel Rossiya, "they suffer from erectile dysfunction from the age of twelve. European values by all means – that's the way it works". Or as Russia's foreign minister Sergey Lavrov recently commented: "If the West's view of human rights develops towards general licentiousness, they are ignoring the fact that this is contrary to the foundations of our culture, which are based on orthodox religion – Christianity."
- May 14, 2010
- 5,303
- 4
- 0
movingtarget said:
Putin also said, "Anyone who doesn't think the end of the Soviet Union was a tragedy doesn't have a heart, but anyone who thinks we can go back to that doesn't have a brain."
As I understand it, there is a significant number of people in Russia who are nostalgic for the Soviet Union, and think their lives are worse now. Putin is a politician, so I think his many statements like the above are merely for domestic consumption, pandering to public sentiment about the demise of socialism.
According to an article in The New Yorker, "By the late Soviet period . . . KGB officers . . . were nearly as dismissive of Communist ideology as the dissidents were. 'The Chekists (KGB) in (Putin's) time laughed at official Soviet ideology,' Gleb Pavlovsky, a former adviser to Putin, (said). 'They thought it was a joke.'”
Putin was highly placed in the KGB, resigning (officially) in 1991 when the KGB backed an abortive coup against Gorbachev. The man most directly responsible for breakup of the Soviet Union and the end of socialism was Boris Yeltsin, who had resigned from the Communist Party in 1990. In 1991, shortly after becoming president of Russia, Yeltsin issued a decree outlawing Communist Party activities in Russia. Around this time, if not before, Putin came to be seen as Yeltsin's protege. In 1998, Yeltsin appointed Putin head of the FSB, successor to the KGB. In 1999, according to the above mentioned article, Putin said "that Communism had been a 'blind alley, far away from the mainstream of civilization.'”
Given the historic power of the KGB, the intriguing question for me is when and how Putin became the protege, and at what point the hand of the supposed protege assumed, behind the scenes, the levers of presidential power. It was only after Yeltsin became so alcoholic that he was no longer effective that Putin pushed him aside and took direct control, but prior to that Putin had certainly been pulling Yeltsin's strings for a long time, perhaps even prior to Yeltsin's ascension to the presidency.
It's sometimes said that Putin is the richest man in the world. Whether that's true or not I've no idea, but he clearly has a lot of wealth and power. This did not happen by accident. If it wasn't Putin himself who directed the breakup of the Soviet Union and the end of socialism, he was certainly as close to it as possible, and has personally benefited by it as much as possible.
- Sep 25, 2009
- 7,527
- 1
- 0
@aphro
the religious component of the putin doctrine, as far as i understand it, is very significant, deliberate and real. just like it ever was over there, excepting the communist era. the orthodox christianity institution, exactly as it was during all their tsars, is essentially a tool of the state. the church was NEVER independent there. NEVER. to stress the fact, it is now customary for the orthodox priests to bless all any new military gear with holy water. it is done very publicly and deliberately. also, nowadays, every unit of their military, not unlike the us military chaplain corps, is staffed with the fully official, state-paid military clergy...the rabbis and and the muslim sheikhs included among the majority orthodox priests. vlad, as i said many times, took the most politically impacting page out of the tsarist book. just like he, the utmost politician, did with many populist ideas of the modern-day communists lead by zhuganoff. vlad steals ideas, adapts them, comes with his own...all to serve his political ends, which, at the end of the day, are the real-time cross section of the majority striving. didn't pres carter rule like that, except using the purely american tools and means ??
@max
if you are really interested in exploring the egg-chicken phenomena re. yeltsin and putin, i suggest you google the works of fiona hill... i only read some of her articles. in all she came across as the most serious western researcher of all things putin. virtually no fluff or any demonizing saliva. not sure which think tank she works for now, but she was, iirc, working for the british secret service before her academic career.
the religious component of the putin doctrine, as far as i understand it, is very significant, deliberate and real. just like it ever was over there, excepting the communist era. the orthodox christianity institution, exactly as it was during all their tsars, is essentially a tool of the state. the church was NEVER independent there. NEVER. to stress the fact, it is now customary for the orthodox priests to bless all any new military gear with holy water. it is done very publicly and deliberately. also, nowadays, every unit of their military, not unlike the us military chaplain corps, is staffed with the fully official, state-paid military clergy...the rabbis and and the muslim sheikhs included among the majority orthodox priests. vlad, as i said many times, took the most politically impacting page out of the tsarist book. just like he, the utmost politician, did with many populist ideas of the modern-day communists lead by zhuganoff. vlad steals ideas, adapts them, comes with his own...all to serve his political ends, which, at the end of the day, are the real-time cross section of the majority striving. didn't pres carter rule like that, except using the purely american tools and means ??
@max
if you are really interested in exploring the egg-chicken phenomena re. yeltsin and putin, i suggest you google the works of fiona hill... i only read some of her articles. in all she came across as the most serious western researcher of all things putin. virtually no fluff or any demonizing saliva. not sure which think tank she works for now, but she was, iirc, working for the british secret service before her academic career.
- Jun 30, 2014
- 7,060
- 2
- 0
Re:
The Russian LGBT propaganda law should also be viewed in that context, Putin wants to appeal to the (mostly rural) conservative and deeply religious masses. Those who want reforms (intellectuals, the well educated urban youth and the liberal bourgeoisie) and hoped that Medvedev would be more than a puppet despise him and many of them have supported the protesters, so Putin has joined forces with those who could be viewed as their antagonists.
Yeah, you could compare it to the classic alliance between church and tsar, Patriach Kirill's various statements about the Human Rights should also be viewed within that context, just like their own definition of the Human rights.
The Russian Orthodox Church and Human Rights by Kristina Stoeckl is a great book about that subject, I share many of her views.
Yeah, but the ties between Putin and the Russian Orthodox Church became much closer after his re-election and the following protests in 2012, from there on Putin's rhetoric really changed, he started giving speeches about the values of the traditional family and the importance of the Russian Orthodox Church as a moral institution and the backbone of the "healthy" Russian society.python said:
The Russian LGBT propaganda law should also be viewed in that context, Putin wants to appeal to the (mostly rural) conservative and deeply religious masses. Those who want reforms (intellectuals, the well educated urban youth and the liberal bourgeoisie) and hoped that Medvedev would be more than a puppet despise him and many of them have supported the protesters, so Putin has joined forces with those who could be viewed as their antagonists.
Yeah, you could compare it to the classic alliance between church and tsar, Patriach Kirill's various statements about the Human Rights should also be viewed within that context, just like their own definition of the Human rights.
The Russian Orthodox Church and Human Rights by Kristina Stoeckl is a great book about that subject, I share many of her views.
- Jul 30, 2011
- 7,645
- 150
- 17,680
Thanks for the reference.
@python: Yes, especially given the way the church was brought back under the state's benevolence. (Not doing so would have been counterproductive, obviously.) I think the key thing you point out is Putin's method's of assimilation. Many low-watt readings of him from the West react as if he'd be covertly bound to earlier 20th century ideological models in terms of what is and isn't acceptable--or even desirable.
To that end, here's the fall of the CCCP quote
"Above all, we should acknowledge that the collapse of the Soviet Union was a major geopolitical disaster of the century. As for the Russian nation, it became a genuine drama. Tens of millions of our co-citizens and co-patriots found themselves outside Russian territory. Moreover, the epidemic of disintegration infected Russia itself."
http://www.eurozine.com/articles/2016-05-06-fredriksson-en.html
@python: Yes, especially given the way the church was brought back under the state's benevolence. (Not doing so would have been counterproductive, obviously.) I think the key thing you point out is Putin's method's of assimilation. Many low-watt readings of him from the West react as if he'd be covertly bound to earlier 20th century ideological models in terms of what is and isn't acceptable--or even desirable.
To that end, here's the fall of the CCCP quote
"Above all, we should acknowledge that the collapse of the Soviet Union was a major geopolitical disaster of the century. As for the Russian nation, it became a genuine drama. Tens of millions of our co-citizens and co-patriots found themselves outside Russian territory. Moreover, the epidemic of disintegration infected Russia itself."
http://www.eurozine.com/articles/2016-05-06-fredriksson-en.html
- Jul 4, 2009
- 9,666
- 0
- 0
Re: Re:
....this religious connection seems to get a lot of press and is relied upon to prove all kinds of things Russian ( read its a major part of the West's Russia narrative )....ran into an article this morning that has a graph in it that looks at religiosity in various nations...
...check the place that Russia has in the rank ordering...btw the rest of the article is a reasonably good read...
...and if the above is correct seems to explain why Trump has been doing so well in this election cycle...seems Trump is Merika...
http://www.alternet.org/media/compared-rest-world-americans-are-delusional-prudish-selfish-religious-nuts-study
Cheers
Mayomaniac said:
....this religious connection seems to get a lot of press and is relied upon to prove all kinds of things Russian ( read its a major part of the West's Russia narrative )....ran into an article this morning that has a graph in it that looks at religiosity in various nations...
...check the place that Russia has in the rank ordering...btw the rest of the article is a reasonably good read...
.
...and if the above is correct seems to explain why Trump has been doing so well in this election cycle...seems Trump is Merika...
http://www.alternet.org/media/compared-rest-world-americans-are-delusional-prudish-selfish-religious-nuts-study
Cheers
- Aug 5, 2009
- 15,733
- 8,136
- 28,180
Re: Re:
I take surveys with a pinch of salt. USA sees religion as much more important than Mexico, Israel and Poland ? Hard to believe. A pretty one sided article about the USA. As for the figures for Russia if that is correct then that just shows the power of propaganda. Interestingly Stalin was a novice priest before getting involved with the Communist Party.
blutto said:Mayomaniac said:
....this religious connection seems to get a lot of press and is relied upon to prove all kinds of things Russian ( read its a major part of the West's Russia narrative )....ran into an article this morning that has a graph in it that looks at religiosity in various nations...
...check the place that Russia has in the rank ordering...btw the rest of the article is a reasonably good read...
.
...and if the above is correct seems to explain why Trump has been doing so well in this election cycle...seems Trump is Merika...
http://www.alternet.org/media/compared-rest-world-americans-are-delusional-prudish-selfish-religious-nuts-study
Cheers
I take surveys with a pinch of salt. USA sees religion as much more important than Mexico, Israel and Poland ? Hard to believe. A pretty one sided article about the USA. As for the figures for Russia if that is correct then that just shows the power of propaganda. Interestingly Stalin was a novice priest before getting involved with the Communist Party.
- Status
TRENDING THREADS
-
World Championship 2025: Men’s RR, September 28- Started by Berniece
- Replies: 2K
-
Il Lombardia 2025, monument, October 11- Started by Krzysztof_O
- Replies: 792
-
Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread- Started by DNP-Old
- Replies: 35K
-
European Championship 2025: Men’s RR, October 5- Started by Berniece
- Replies: 854
-
Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread- Started by Lequack
- Replies: 40K
-
Teams & Riders The Great Big Cycling Transfers, Extensions, and Rumours Thread- Started by RedheadDane
- Replies: 13K
-
World Championship 2025: Men’s ITT, September 21- Started by Berniece
- Replies: 942
Facebook
Twitter
Instagram