World Politics

[blutto]

....don't look now but stuff is happenin'....gee I wonder if Merika was consulted ....

Turkey and Iran Reach Agreement on Conditions for Syria Peace

http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/37291-turkey-and-iran-reach-agreement-on-conditions-for-syria-peace

Cheers

 

[python]

....good 'un....thanks for posting that link...

Cheers[/quote]
Thanks for putting this up.

You've been a bit quiet on the latest happenings in the Ukraine. Any thoughts?
------------
from python: you're welcome folks ! pepe is sometimes a tad too predictable. but when he cares (or knows/studied the subject particularly well) he cuts it right to the meat and does it brilliantly...

@glenn
i largely lost my interest in ukraine, though i did manage to eek out a confused post 2 days ago on their crimean adventure...the ultra-nationalist fervor and predictability had turned whatever time i can spare to syria and turkey...not that i stopped being an armchair 'expert' in either.

....don't look now but stuff is happenin'....gee I wonder if Merika was consulted ....

Turkey and Iran Reach Agreement on Conditions for Syria Peace

http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/37291-turkey-and-iran-reach-agreement-on-conditions-for-syria-peace

Cheers

blutto, i am a tad carefull to take ANYTHING coming out of erdogan's startling bipolar behavior too seriously (though, the significance of your post isnt lost on me).

to add to the white house shyte list - not sure if it made the english-language media yet - TODAY an official chinese announcement: they are sending their military advisers to help the legitimate syrian govt

if anyone is till dreaming in toppling assad, they'll need to take some air. as to the russia-iran-turkey-china united position on syria supposedly opposite to the one america persues, i'd feel far more comfortable if turkey wasn't part of it...plus, i do belief that obama/kerry are trying what they can, given the neocon opposition, to work with vlad. if not for their own clear benefit, then simply b/c he - again - outplayed them.

 

[blutto]

Re:

....good 'un....thanks for posting that link...

Cheers

Thanks for putting this up.

You've been a bit quiet on the latest happenings in the Ukraine. Any thoughts?
------------
from python: you're welcome folks ! pepe is sometimes a tad too predictable. but when he cares (or knows/studied the subject particularly well) he cuts it right to the meat and does it brilliantly...

@glenn
i largely lost my interest in ukraine, though i did manage to eek out a confused post 2 days ago on their crimean adventure...the ultra-nationalist fervor and predictability had turned whatever time i can spare to syria and turkey...not that i stopped being an armchair 'expert' in either.

....don't look now but stuff is happenin'....gee I wonder if Merika was consulted ....

Turkey and Iran Reach Agreement on Conditions for Syria Peace

http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/37291-turkey-and-iran-reach-agreement-on-conditions-for-syria-peace

Cheers

blutto, i am a tad carefull to take ANYTHING coming out of erdogan's startling bipolar behavior too seriously (though, the significance of your post isnt lost on me).

to add to the white house shyte list - not sure if it made the english-language media yet - TODAY an official chinese announcement: they are sending their military advisers to help the legitimate syrian govt

if anyone is till dreaming in toppling assad, they'll need to take some air. as to the russia-iran-turkey-china united position on syria supposedly opposite to the one america persues, i'd feel far more comfortable if turkey wasn't part of it...plus, i do belief that obama/kerry are trying what they can, given the neocon opposition, to work with vlad. if not for their own clear benefit, then simply b/c he - again - outplayed them.

[/quote]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

....the takeaway I had on this was more along the lines of rats leaving the sinking ship...Erdogan, a once useful rat, is now scrambling to find a new home....don't think anyone in their right mind would trust him or rely on him but you have to admit it does make for a very, uhhh, interesting headline....

...gonna be interesting how the Western press covers this, or not.....and btw non-coverage will especially scream volumes about how the Western media really roll...

Cheers

 

[Maaaaaaaarten]

Re:

Putin, yet another beta male's dream propped up by men's feelings of inadequacy and a gigantic repression apparatus.

Lol what are you talking about? Putin is definitely the world leader with the best trained upper body. Obama needs to work on them pecks, bruh

 

[blutto]

....all hail the glorious revolution and the wonders it has produced, what a smashing success....the following from a survey of the most liveable cities in the world ( btw Soviet Canuckistan placed 3 in the top 5...yeah team... )....

The five least livable:

• Kyiv, Ukraine
• Douala, Cameroon
• Harare, Zimbabwe
• Karachi, Pakistan
• Algiers, Algeria

Cheers

 

[movingtarget]

Re:

....all hail the glorious revolution and the wonders it has produced, what a smashing success....the following from a survey of the most liveable cities in the world ( btw Soviet Canuckistan placed 3 in the top 5...yeah team... )....

The five least livable:

• Kyiv, Ukraine
• Douala, Cameroon
• Harare, Zimbabwe
• Karachi, Pakistan
• Algiers, Algeria

Cheers

If Kiev is that bad how is the rest of Ukraine ? Nothing from Crimea ? Nothing from Syria, Iraq or Venezuela ? Even the USA has it's hits and misses.

 

[python]

Re: Re:

....all hail the glorious revolution and the wonders it has produced, what a smashing success....the following from a survey of the most liveable cities in the world ( btw Soviet Canuckistan placed 3 in the top 5...yeah team... )....

The five least livable:

• Kyiv, Ukraine
• Douala, Cameroon
• Harare, Zimbabwe
• Karachi, Pakistan
• Algiers, Algeria

Cheers

If Kiev is that bad how is the rest of Ukraine ? Nothing from Crimea ? Nothing from Syria, Iraq or Venezuela ? Even the USA has it's hits and misses.

i am sure blutto will soon be around to answer your questions...but i got curious, and frankly surprised, by such a low rating and googled a 'city livability' term. and indeed the economist 'intelligence unit' said something along the blutto source:

http://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2016/08/daily-chart-14

Damascus is the lowest-ranked city with a rating of just 30.2 out of 100, scoring poorly in all categories (understandably, due to Syria’s ruinous civil war). Kiev, the only European city in the bottom ten

quite frankly, damascus should NOT be even considered as there is currently real civil war waged on its streets (so much for the forking dumbness for the 'intelligence unit' )...just like any iraqi city would not be right. but kiev is qite far from their civil conflict war zone. even the spurious terror threats are lower than in almost any western European capital. the low rating seems entirely due to the horrendous living conditions, such as housing, health care etc...but of course, we all know the revolution has its price and the blame must be...vlad.

 

[May0maniac]

Re: Re:

....all hail the glorious revolution and the wonders it has produced, what a smashing success....the following from a survey of the most liveable cities in the world ( btw Soviet Canuckistan placed 3 in the top 5...yeah team... )....

The five least livable:

• Kyiv, Ukraine
• Douala, Cameroon
• Harare, Zimbabwe
• Karachi, Pakistan
• Algiers, Algeria

Cheers

If Kiev is that bad how is the rest of Ukraine ? Nothing from Crimea ? Nothing from Syria, Iraq or Venezuela ? Even the USA has it's hits and misses.

Kiev sucks badly, it makes Minsk look like a nice, Western European town.

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

....all hail the glorious revolution and the wonders it has produced, what a smashing success....the following from a survey of the most liveable cities in the world ( btw Soviet Canuckistan placed 3 in the top 5...yeah team... )....

The five least livable:

• Kyiv, Ukraine
• Douala, Cameroon
• Harare, Zimbabwe
• Karachi, Pakistan
• Algiers, Algeria

Cheers

If Kiev is that bad how is the rest of Ukraine ? Nothing from Crimea ? Nothing from Syria, Iraq or Venezuela ? Even the USA has it's hits and misses.

Kiev sucks badly, it makes Minsk look like a nice, Western European town.

Many people moved to Kiev to look for work and escape the chaos and many others went to Poland or Russia but if Kiev is that bad other cities have to be worse especially ones closer to the conflict zone. I don't think the Russian Resurrection is going too well in Crimea either or so some people have told me. You say that Minsk is not as bad but someone told me that other cities in Belarus like Vitebsk are pretty awful but that was quite a while ago when I was told that.

 

[blutto]

....some background to the glorious revolution.....helps flesh out a situation that is now being used to beat Trump up with....and do note this is part of the crew that was central to messing up the Russian economy by strip-mining it of "value" with considerable assistance from the oligarch friends it helped to bring to power ( also see Larry Summers' place in this mess for more insight on this matter )

Excerpt from Contagion:The Betrayal of Liberty; Russia and the United States in the Post-Cold War Era adapted for lewrockwell.com

……..Spooked out of Russia after the electorate’s gleeful elevation of political showman Vladimir Zhirinovsky and his party of sometimes fire-breathing, sometimes bungling Russian nationalists (LDP) to the Russian Duma in January 1994, Jeffrey Sachs and his fellow opportunist, Anders Aslund, took their crusade for the application of shock therapy to Kiev. There Aslund picked up work managing a small team of advisors in Ukraine funded by the New York-based George Soros Open Society Institute while doing public relations work for Ukraine, also on Soros’s dime.

Despite the criminal bonfire their advisory team had fueled in Moscow, U.S. Treasury generals considered both Sachs and Aslund to be good soldiers. Both were rewarded with comfy sinecures; the Carnegie Foundation in Washington would give Aslund a position from which he might pose as an allegedly objective analyst of U.S. policy toward Russia and Ukraine, and in June 1995, Harvard would reward Jeffrey Sachs with the leadership of the Harvard Institute for International Development (HIID), a plum position that would soon enough prove itself a poisoned chalice.

In Kiev, a USAID mission was already in place, along with the rest of the usual foreign aid plumage: the IMF, the World Bank, the European Bank for Reconstruction and Development, the International Finance Corporation, the European Union’s bilateral assistance programs, and those of Canada and the U.S.Treasury along with the National Endowment for Democracy (NED). All that was missing was an HIID mission.

https://www.lewrockwell.com/2016/08/anne-williamson/bloody-evil-george-soros/

Cheers

 

[May0maniac]

Re: Re:

....all hail the glorious revolution and the wonders it has produced, what a smashing success....the following from a survey of the most liveable cities in the world ( btw Soviet Canuckistan placed 3 in the top 5...yeah team... )....

The five least livable:

• Kyiv, Ukraine
• Douala, Cameroon
• Harare, Zimbabwe
• Karachi, Pakistan
• Algiers, Algeria

Cheers

If Kiev is that bad how is the rest of Ukraine ? Nothing from Crimea ? Nothing from Syria, Iraq or Venezuela ? Even the USA has it's hits and misses.

Kiev sucks badly, it makes Minsk look like a nice, Western European town.

Many people moved to Kiev to look for work and escape the chaos and many others went to Poland or Russia but if Kiev is that bad other cities have to be worse especially ones closer to the conflict zone. I don't think the Russian Resurrection is going too well in Crimea either or so some people have told me. You say that Minsk is not as bad but someone told me that other cities in Belarus like Vitebsk are pretty awful but that was quite a while ago when I was told that.

I don't know much about Vitebsk and I never visited the city, so I can't comment on that.
Not all of Ukraine is that bad, a few towns in the West are actually pretty nice, Chernivtsi for example is a great town.

 

[CheckMyPecs]

It is well known that Zhirinovsky's party is a KGB front, and that its only purpose is to steal votes from legitimate opposition parties.

 

[python]

a few days back i posted about a new significance of the russian bombers for the 1st time ever flying their syrian missions from the iranian base...
viewtopic.php?p=2002560#p2002560

i ended that post with a sign of confusion b/c the surprise development seemed too quick and sudden for the very complex state of affairs in the rotten hood:

this is all too optimistic to lift the confusion

sure enough, my anticipation came true... just a week later both sides announced the end of the deal...

the russians, somewhat disingenuously, declared the mission was fulfilled as planned. the iranians said it was a temporary arrangement all along.

did anything go wrong between vlad and the ayatollahs and what could that be ?

i found no reliable nor competent analysis. whatever deserved attention basically narrowed down to the fact that there was from get-go a substantial iranian opposition b/c the existence of a foreign base violates the iranian constitution article 146..perhaps so, but i find it too improbable that the sides would not account for the fact in advance. some other articles referred to the iranian criticism of russian 'rush to show off'

whatever happened, i dont think it was staged...

 

[blutto]

....more great news from the glorious revolution....

Public outcry is growing in Ukraine over the amount of money spent on the construction of what was supposed to be a ‘wall’ at the border between Ukraine and Russia, presented at the time by ex-PM Yatsenyuk as no less than ‘The European Rampart’; it turned out to be a metal fence, which “wouldn’t even stop a rabbit.”


One of Ukraine’s most widely discussed and costly projects from the times of the former Prime Minister Yatsenyuk – a giant wall on the border with Russia dubbed no less than ‘The European Rampart’ turns out to be a figment of our collective imagination.

‘The Wall’, which was once claimed to become an “arrangement of the Eastern border of Europe,” is actually a metal fence which “wouldn’t even stop a rabbit,” and by all accounts, the money that was chanelled into the grand scheme has been embezzled.

Last week the Ukrainian media reported that the country’s Specialized Anti-Corruption Prosecutor’s Office (SAP) opened a criminal case over the embezzlement of funds allocated for the implementation of the proposed barrier, which was supposed to act as a layered defense system on the border with Russia.

SAP’s head, Nazar Golodnitsky, told journalists that prosecutors will go to the site “to look, to describe and to examine.”

http://sputniknews.com/politics/20160821/1044490484/ukraine-russia-border-wall.html

Cheers

 

[blutto]

Re:

a few days back i posted about a new significance of the russian bombers for the 1st time ever flying their syrian missions from the iranian base...
viewtopic.php?p=2002560#p2002560

i ended that post with a sign of confusion b/c the surprise development seemed too quick and sudden for the very complex state of affairs in the rotten hood:

this is all too optimistic to lift the confusion

sure enough, my anticipation came true... just a week later both sides announced the end of the deal...

the russians, somewhat disingenuously, declared the mission was fulfilled as planned. the iranians said it was a temporary arrangement all along.

did anything go wrong between vlad and the ayatollahs and what could that be ?

i found no reliable nor competent analysis. whatever deserved attention basically narrowed down to the fact that there was from get-go a substantial iranian opposition b/c the existence of a foreign base violates the iranian constitution article 146..perhaps so, but i find it too improbable that the sides would not account for the fact in advance. some other articles referred to the iranian criticism of russian 'rush to show off'

whatever happened, i dont think it was staged...

....hmmm....I will venture a guess here and say it was just a bit of theatrics to get a point across....

Cheers

 

[Irondan]

Re:

....more great news from the glorious revolution....

Public outcry is growing in Ukraine over the amount of money spent on the construction of what was supposed to be a ‘wall’ at the border between Ukraine and Russia, presented at the time by ex-PM Yatsenyuk as no less than ‘The European Rampart’; it turned out to be a metal fence, which “wouldn’t even stop a rabbit.”


One of Ukraine’s most widely discussed and costly projects from the times of the former Prime Minister Yatsenyuk – a giant wall on the border with Russia dubbed no less than ‘The European Rampart’ turns out to be a figment of our collective imagination.

‘The Wall’, which was once claimed to become an “arrangement of the Eastern border of Europe,” is actually a metal fence which “wouldn’t even stop a rabbit,” and by all accounts, the money that was chanelled into the grand scheme has been embezzled.

Last week the Ukrainian media reported that the country’s Specialized Anti-Corruption Prosecutor’s Office (SAP) opened a criminal case over the embezzlement of funds allocated for the implementation of the proposed barrier, which was supposed to act as a layered defense system on the border with Russia.

SAP’s head, Nazar Golodnitsky, told journalists that prosecutors will go to the site “to look, to describe and to examine.”

http://sputniknews.com/politics/20160821/1044490484/ukraine-russia-border-wall.html

Cheers

Maybe when Trump is elected and builds the wall between the US and Mexico the Ukrainians can learn some construction techniques and cost control methods as we all know that 2000 mile wall is affordable and a great example of small government...

http://www.cnbc.com/2015/10/09/this-is-what-trumps-border-wall-could-cost-us.html

Sorry blutto, I couldn't control myself... I hear "wall" and immediately think of the "Great Wall of Trump".

 

[blutto]

Re: Re:

....more great news from the glorious revolution....

Public outcry is growing in Ukraine over the amount of money spent on the construction of what was supposed to be a ‘wall’ at the border between Ukraine and Russia, presented at the time by ex-PM Yatsenyuk as no less than ‘The European Rampart’; it turned out to be a metal fence, which “wouldn’t even stop a rabbit.”


One of Ukraine’s most widely discussed and costly projects from the times of the former Prime Minister Yatsenyuk – a giant wall on the border with Russia dubbed no less than ‘The European Rampart’ turns out to be a figment of our collective imagination.

‘The Wall’, which was once claimed to become an “arrangement of the Eastern border of Europe,” is actually a metal fence which “wouldn’t even stop a rabbit,” and by all accounts, the money that was chanelled into the grand scheme has been embezzled.

Last week the Ukrainian media reported that the country’s Specialized Anti-Corruption Prosecutor’s Office (SAP) opened a criminal case over the embezzlement of funds allocated for the implementation of the proposed barrier, which was supposed to act as a layered defense system on the border with Russia.

SAP’s head, Nazar Golodnitsky, told journalists that prosecutors will go to the site “to look, to describe and to examine.”

http://sputniknews.com/politics/20160821/1044490484/ukraine-russia-border-wall.html

Cheers

Maybe when Trump is elected and builds the wall between the US and Mexico the Ukrainians can learn some construction techniques and cost control methods as we all know that 2000 mile wall is affordable and a great example of small government...

http://www.cnbc.com/2015/10/09/this-is-what-trumps-border-wall-could-cost-us.html

Sorry blutto, I couldn't control myself... I hear "wall" and immediately think of the "Great Wall of Trump".

....don't be sorry, glad you brought that up...was going to weave that into the post but got distracted and plum forgot ( hate wasting great opportunities like that because it would have been a very fanciful hyperbolic weave )....Great Wall of Trump, that is good, real good...

Cheers

 

[python]

another very significant development just took place short hours ago - turkey invades syria.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-37171995

the official turkish reports refer to an action against isis, but the invasion route is on a syrian kurdish town of jarablus...another report already quoted the kurdish complaints.

several factors complicate sifting thru the development. supposedly, the us airforce is supporting the action. it is absolutely unclear how the us can support an assault on their kurdish allies also, the russians must be informed of the turkish actions (if not approving them) b/c the turkish airforce is operating in the syrian airspace controlled by the russian surface-to-air missiles.

i truly dont understand what is going on.

 

[Brullnux]

Re:

another very significant development just took place short hours ago - turkey invades syria.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-37171995

the official turkish reports refer to an action against isis, but the invasion route is on a syrian kurdish town of jarablus...another report already quoted the kurdish complaints.

several factors complicate sifting thru the development. supposedly, the us airforce is supporting the action. it is absolutely unclear how the us can support an assault on their kurdish allies also, the russians must be informed of the turkish actions (if not approving them) b/c the turkish airforce is operating in the syrian airspace controlled by the russian surface-to-air missiles.

i truly dont understand what is going on.

From the article you gave the link to it says 'the operation was aimed against both IS and Kurdish fighters'. Which is a pretty disgusting move from Erdogan imo. It makes some sense from his point of view, damage the Kurds in Syria which have always been close to the Turkish Kurds so that they won't be able to help the Turkish Kurds to ask for greater autonomy or just become a separate nation. However, this is a stupid and disgusting move for many other reasons which have much more logic and sense behind them, such as actually helping Daesh, which of course has never hindered Erdogan before in the last so I guess it would be naive to expect it to do so now. It also moves him further and further away from the West, and this I guess shows a complete and clean divergence from the US foreign policy in the region. I think he may regret this in the long run.

 

[python]

Re: Re:

another very significant development just took place short hours ago - turkey invades syria.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-37171995

the official turkish reports refer to an action against isis, but the invasion route is on a syrian kurdish town of jarablus...another report already quoted the kurdish complaints.

several factors complicate sifting thru the development. supposedly, the us airforce is supporting the action. it is absolutely unclear how the us can support an assault on their kurdish allies also, the russians must be informed of the turkish actions (if not approving them) b/c the turkish airforce is operating in the syrian airspace controlled by the russian surface-to-air missiles.

i truly dont understand what is going on.

From the article you gave the link to it says 'the operation was aimed against both IS and Kurdish fighters'. Which is a pretty disgusting move from Erdogan imo. It makes some sense from his point of view, damage the Kurds in Syria which have always been close to the Turkish Kurds so that they won't be able to help the Turkish Kurds to ask for greater autonomy or just become a separate nation. However, this is a stupid and disgusting move for many other reasons which have much more logic and sense behind them, such as actually helping Daesh, which of course has never hindered Erdogan before in the last so I guess it would be naive to expect it to do so now. It also moves him further and further away from the West, and this I guess shows a complete and clean divergence from the US foreign policy in the region. I think he may regret this in the long run.

here's an objective attempt to add some clarity after a full day or convoluted reports and actions have gone by. my apologies for omitting links to the sources...there are too many to fit the short post and my time frame.

-the turkish attack in northen syria was indeed aimed at the isis controlled kurdish town of jarabulus. according to several sources, the kurdish fighetrs were in the vicinity, but were neither attacked nor offered a fight. also, the forces that now control the border town are the so called free syrian army fully supported by the turks.
-the turkish invasion was FULLY supported by the us. the us vice prez joe biden (now in turkey) loud and clear said just that

...and here is the relatively speculative news narratives:
a) according to those claiming to quote the biden statements, he issued the ultimatum to the syrian kurd (demanded by the turks) - withdraw to behind the Euphrates river or lose the us support. the sources i consider reliable report that the kurds indeed are heeding the us demands and are withdrawing.
b) the russian position appears ambiguous. on the one hand, they confirm being informed, but on the other they *** about the violation of the syrian sovereignty. my hunch is they aren't happy but have to play the complicated game due to the recent rapprochement attempts. i guess they want the kurds to get pissed with the us and the turks to put more conditions on obama (besides the gulen extradition) to promote themselves as an alternative. my hunch is that the us-kurdish games are likely to blow up in the biden face...

 

[blutto]

Re: Re:

another very significant development just took place short hours ago - turkey invades syria.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-37171995

the official turkish reports refer to an action against isis, but the invasion route is on a syrian kurdish town of jarablus...another report already quoted the kurdish complaints.

several factors complicate sifting thru the development. supposedly, the us airforce is supporting the action. it is absolutely unclear how the us can support an assault on their kurdish allies also, the russians must be informed of the turkish actions (if not approving them) b/c the turkish airforce is operating in the syrian airspace controlled by the russian surface-to-air missiles.

i truly dont understand what is going on.

From the article you gave the link to it says 'the operation was aimed against both IS and Kurdish fighters'. Which is a pretty disgusting move from Erdogan imo. It makes some sense from his point of view, damage the Kurds in Syria which have always been close to the Turkish Kurds so that they won't be able to help the Turkish Kurds to ask for greater autonomy or just become a separate nation. However, this is a stupid and disgusting move for many other reasons which have much more logic and sense behind them, such as actually helping Daesh, which of course has never hindered Erdogan before in the last so I guess it would be naive to expect it to do so now. It also moves him further and further away from the West, and this I guess shows a complete and clean divergence from the US foreign policy in the region. I think he may regret this in the long run.

here's an objective attempt to add some clarity after a full day or convoluted reports and actions have gone by. my apologies for omitting links to the sources...there are too many to fit the short post and my time frame.

-the turkish attack in northen syria was indeed aimed at the isis controlled kurdish town of jarabulus. according to several sources, the kurdish fighetrs were in the vicinity, but were neither attacked nor offered a fight. also, the forces that now control the border town are the so called free syrian army fully supported by the turks.
-the turkish invasion was FULLY supported by the us. the us vice prez joe biden (now in turkey) loud and clear said just that

...and here is the relatively speculative news narratives:
a) according to those claiming to quote the biden statements, he issued the ultimatum to the syrian kurd (demanded by the turks) - withdraw to behind the Euphrates river or lose the us support. the sources i consider reliable report that the kurds indeed are heeding the us demands and are withdrawing.
b) the russian position appears ambiguous. on the one hand, they confirm being informed, but on the other they *** about the violation of the syrian sovereignty. my hunch is they aren't happy but have to play the complicated game due to the recent rapprochement attempts. i guess they want the kurds to get pissed with the us and the turks to put more conditions on obama (besides the gulen extradition) to promote themselves as an alternative. my hunch is that the us-kurdish games are likely to blow up in the biden face...

....the following may help bring some clarity to the situation....with a big emphasis on may...

...a key bit is the following....

However ‘inconvenient’ it may be for the most gung-ho (usually foreign-based) supporters of Syria to admit, Damascus and Ankara have been engaged in secret talks for months now in the Algerian capital of Algiers, as has been repeatedly confirmed by many multiple media sources ever since this spring. Moreover, Turkey just dispatched one of its deputy intelligence chiefs to Damascus a few days ago to meet with his high-level Syrian counterparts, so this might explain the reason why Russia and Iran aren’t condemning Turkey’s incursion into Syria, nor why the Syrian officials aren’t loudly protesting against it either. More and more, the evidence is pointing to Turkey’s operation being part of a larger move that was coordinated in advance with Syria, Russia, and Iran. Nevertheless, for domestic political reasons within both Syria and Turkey, neither side is expected to admit to having coordinated any of this, and it’s likely that bellicose rhetoric might be belched from Ankara just as much as it’s predictable that Damascus will rightfully speak about the protection of its sovereignty

.

...now here is a wild stab in the dark....Turkey decided a long while ago to leave the NATO orbit and settle in with Russia/Iran, the Syrian negotiations, if they in fact were as reported in the article, seems to confirm that...the US got wind of this late and had to act fast to head off the move of Erdogan to Russia/Iran....and this haste produced the botched coup attempt that we saw ( and ironically strengthened Erdogan's hold on Turkey and as a result he could move the chess pieces around with much greater speed further mucking up Merika's chance to head things off...)....just a thought produced by connecting the few dots that are visible....

...and if this true this is really gonna piss off Israel and their lapdogs, errr, close friends in Washington...and this also means goodbye to the Qatari pipeline dreams....and Europe is now most likely going to have to re-engage with Russia, since Russia now holds the big energy cards again....

https://off-guardian.org/2016/08/25/turkey-crosses-into-syria-unipolar-conspiracy-or-multipolar-coordination/


Cheers

 

[blutto]

.....hot on the heels of the ideas tentatively presented above we have the following, which can be , what, a rather abrupt U-turn, a blossoming of sanity among the cretins running Merikan foreign policy....????.....

The main architect of Washington’s plan to rule the world has abandoned the scheme and called for the forging of ties with Russia and China. While Zbigniew Brzezinski’s article in The American Interest titled “Towards a Global Realignment” has largely been ignored by the media, it shows that powerful members of the policymaking establishment no longer believe that Washington will prevail in its quest to extent US hegemony across the Middle East and Asia. Brzezinski, who was the main proponent of this idea and who drew up the blueprint for imperial expansion in his 1997 book The Grand Chessboard: American Primacy and Its Geostrategic Imperatives, has done an about-face and called for a dramatic revising of the strategy.

http://www.unz.com/mwhitney/the-broken-chessboard-brzezinski-gives-up-on-empire/

Cheers

 

[python]

Re: Re:

another very significant development just took place short hours ago - turkey invades syria.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-37171995

the official turkish reports refer to an action against isis, but the invasion route is on a syrian kurdish town of jarablus...another report already quoted the kurdish complaints.

several factors complicate sifting thru the development. supposedly, the us airforce is supporting the action. it is absolutely unclear how the us can support an assault on their kurdish allies also, the russians must be informed of the turkish actions (if not approving them) b/c the turkish airforce is operating in the syrian airspace controlled by the russian surface-to-air missiles.

i truly dont understand what is going on.

From the article you gave the link to it says 'the operation was aimed against both IS and Kurdish fighters'. Which is a pretty disgusting move from Erdogan imo. It makes some sense from his point of view, damage the Kurds in Syria which have always been close to the Turkish Kurds so that they won't be able to help the Turkish Kurds to ask for greater autonomy or just become a separate nation. However, this is a stupid and disgusting move for many other reasons which have much more logic and sense behind them, such as actually helping Daesh, which of course has never hindered Erdogan before in the last so I guess it would be naive to expect it to do so now. It also moves him further and further away from the West, and this I guess shows a complete and clean divergence from the US foreign policy in the region. I think he may regret this in the long run.

here's an objective attempt to add some clarity after a full day or convoluted reports and actions have gone by. my apologies for omitting links to the sources...there are too many to fit the short post and my time frame.

-the turkish attack in northen syria was indeed aimed at the isis controlled kurdish town of jarabulus. according to several sources, the kurdish fighetrs were in the vicinity, but were neither attacked nor offered a fight. also, the forces that now control the border town are the so called free syrian army fully supported by the turks.
-the turkish invasion was FULLY supported by the us. the us vice prez joe biden (now in turkey) loud and clear said just that

...and here is the relatively speculative news narratives:
a) according to those claiming to quote the biden statements, he issued the ultimatum to the syrian kurd (demanded by the turks) - withdraw to behind the Euphrates river or lose the us support. the sources i consider reliable report that the kurds indeed are heeding the us demands and are withdrawing.
b) the russian position appears ambiguous. on the one hand, they confirm being informed, but on the other they *** about the violation of the syrian sovereignty. my hunch is they aren't happy but have to play the complicated game due to the recent rapprochement attempts. i guess they want the kurds to get pissed with the us and the turks to put more conditions on obama (besides the gulen extradition) to promote themselves as an alternative. my hunch is that the us-kurdish games are likely to blow up in the biden face...

....the following may help bring some clarity to the situation....with a big emphasis on may...

...a key bit is the following....

However ‘inconvenient’ it may be for the most gung-ho (usually foreign-based) supporters of Syria to admit, Damascus and Ankara have been engaged in secret talks for months now in the Algerian capital of Algiers, as has been repeatedly confirmed by many multiple media sources ever since this spring. Moreover, Turkey just dispatched one of its deputy intelligence chiefs to Damascus a few days ago to meet with his high-level Syrian counterparts, so this might explain the reason why Russia and Iran aren’t condemning Turkey’s incursion into Syria, nor why the Syrian officials aren’t loudly protesting against it either. More and more, the evidence is pointing to Turkey’s operation being part of a larger move that was coordinated in advance with Syria, Russia, and Iran. Nevertheless, for domestic political reasons within both Syria and Turkey, neither side is expected to admit to having coordinated any of this, and it’s likely that bellicose rhetoric might be belched from Ankara just as much as it’s predictable that Damascus will rightfully speak about the protection of its sovereignty

.

...now here is a wild stab in the dark....Turkey decided a long while ago to leave the NATO orbit and settle in with Russia/Iran, the Syrian negotiations, if they in fact were as reported in the article, seems to confirm that...the US got wind of this late and had to act fast to head off the move of Erdogan to Russia/Iran....and this haste produced the botched coup attempt that we saw ( and ironically strengthened Erdogan's hold on Turkey and as a result he could move the chess pieces around with much greater speed further mucking up Merika's chance to head things off...)....just a thought produced by connecting the few dots that are visible....

...and if this true this is really gonna piss off Israel and their lapdogs, errr, close friends in Washington...and this also means goodbye to the Qatari pipeline dreams....and Europe is now most likely going to have to re-engage with Russia, since Russia now holds the big energy cards again....

https://off-guardian.org/2016/08/25/turkey-crosses-into-syria-unipolar-conspiracy-or-multipolar-coordination/


Cheers

don't know what to say...the analysis you linked to is interesting if not plausible and your' stab in the dark' aint all that impossible.

it is very difficult to know what is really going on with the turkish invasion as much is not reported and some of what has been presented officially is likely an intentional misinformation. my typical approach under the circumstance is to read as wide a sample of the original sources as possible, particularly from the conflicting sides, as they would try to report/leak what an opponent would be reluctant to..sooo, i am fairly sure of the following findings so far:

-the pre-invasion cooperation btwn turkey, russia, syria and iran seems a fact. it was confirmed by the turkish intelligence officer in an interview with spuntik. also, it is an open information: vlad and erdogan telencoed TODAY while their military chiefs are meeting as i type...

-the us involvement in the turkish coup i doubt, but would be quite sure they knew of it and did not fully inform erdogan. it is unclear to me if the invasion is related to the coup or its failure, but i am fairly sure it hastened the erdogan decision to go in NOW as he's riding the understandable wave of public outcry.

-most sources agree that the size of the turkish invasion contingent is rather small - about 20 tanks and a few hundred troops. most of the fighting was allocated to the 'free syrian army' numbering about 5,000. this indicates they are careful NOT to step in too deep YET. if the us will fail to convince the kurds withdrawal to the east of Euphrates river, i see the expansion of the invasion big time. my hunch is that the russians, iranians, assad and the us told erdogan he'll be supported ONLY unless he goes full *** invasion..

-this leads to the kurds...will they pull back thus preventing a bigger war with the turks in syria ? the reports so far are contradictory. yesterday, the ypg spokesman said they will heed the us ultimatum, but today he reversed himself according to 2 arab sources. this one is the biggest and most crucial unknown. if i was their commander, i'd act rationally and withdraw even if temporarily b/c they stand to lose much more if intransigent.
not only they aren't a military match to a nato member (no heavy weapons and own airforce), but they would get no supplies to last. of course, then the us could forget of fighting isis with kurdish lives. so, the grand design of the 'co-conspirators' (turkey, iran, assad, russia, the us) is (in theory) to displace isis from the 60 km border zone, fill it with the 'moderate' rebels and if the kurds 'behave' to perhaps invite them to a geneva all-syrian talks. this is where turkey will resist by any means and everything can blow up again.

-the russian game appears to play along as long as they extract from turkey and the us some sort of future for the assad govt. i have no idea what vlad contingency plans are if he cant.

 

[blutto]

....yeah agreed...all interesting but we have to find and connect more dots which at this time are very few and could be booby-trapped with mines ( if you get my drift....ok simpler...disinformation...but as you noted can also have valuable information teased out..like run it out of phase and the correct answer pops out )....the Zbig-goof article is real interesting by its proximity ain't it ?....

Cheers

 

[blutto]

....here is an article from someone who I read at every opportunity....he doesn't speak ex cathedra like but he has a pretty good track record....some good background maybe ?

http://www.unz.com/tsaker/assessing-the-russian-military-as-an-instrument-of-power/

Cheers