World Politics

[ChrisE]

Nice trolling commentary there, Chris.

In California we spend , by law, nearly half of every dollar taken in State revenue in public education and we are 49th out of 50 when compared to the other states. It is ALWAYS the same argument. The teachers union swears up and down if they only had more funding they could improve. If Social Security had more funding it would not be nearing insolvency. If Veterans Administration had more funding they could provide decent care. If the DMV had more funding the lines wouldn't be so long, and on and on and on.

If GM and AIG could have just raised taxes and taken more money out of your pocket then they would have been much more effective... See how much different that sounded?

Your confidence placed in corrupt policymakers in misplaced, IMHO.

Do you agree that the profession of teaching is in open competition with other careers? If so, and their salaries depend on state funding, then how would more money be a bad thing when trying to attract better qualified teachers? I don't follow.

SS is not nearing insolvency (you should stop treating us like Beck watchers), and if they would raise the cut off (I think it is right around 100k right now) then this problem would go away completely within our lifetime.
Some of us don't care to have the market dictate our basic retirement fallback, and this comes from somebody that has hundreds of thousands in the stock market.

You can believe in capitalism (regulated to an extent IMO) and still believe government is a solution to some problems in society. There is corruption everywhere....somebody upthread said where do you choose it to reside? I don't cut my nose off to spite my face, and I put more faith in political democracy than corporations whose job it is to drive up profit by any "legal" means.

 

[Anonymous]

FWIW I'm from the US and I live in and work in a "hybrid system" (believe TFF coined it in here somewhere), and have been here for just over 2 years now.

Highly skeptical, but open-minded, when I moved here and all I can say, that hasn't already been said in the thread, is it works pretty dang well, and I'm happy.

I can only really nit-pick some very arbitrary stuff that's not worth mentioning.

While I tend to agree with TFFs assessment of why it won't happen in the US, I certainly can't see why it wouldn't work in the US.

To date most, if not all, of my concerns and misconceptions have been dispelled. Taxes are higher here but, for the most part, cost out of pocket is comparable.

I certainly don't feel any less "free"...to the contrary actually.

Very interesting post, and again, some days I do believe it might just work. Then I read the newspaper...I mean, people carry signs with images that depict Obama as Hitler. I am fairly certain on this, but I don't think Hitler rose to real power based on the idea of a public option.

Also, I understand people being concerned when public school students are chanting our presidents name. I think it is mostly harmless, but can understand why it might be unsettling. However, I wonder how those people feel about this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-y2QghS2gU&feature=related
I have to say, when I see that, I get a bit fearful when the old woman starts to speak in tongue, and the children start to worship at the feet of the cardboard depiction of President Bush...so I guess I see their point about the chanting...

 

[ruamruam]

Very interesting post, and again, some days I do believe it might just work. Then I read the newspaper...I mean, people carry signs with images that depict Obama as Hitler. I am fairly certain on this, but I don't think Hitler rose to real power based on the idea of a public option.

Also, I understand people being concerned when public school students are chanting our presidents name. I think it is mostly harmless, but can understand why it might be unsettling. However, I wonder how those people feel about this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-y2QghS2gU&feature=related
I have to say, when I see that, I get a bit fearful when the old woman starts to speak in tongue, and the children start to worship at the feet of the cardboard depiction of President Bush...so I guess I see their point about the chanting...

Looked at the video, it's scary stuff!!!

 

[Anonymous]

Most opinion like your comes from a position of ingnorance and insulation....ignorance from understanding the benefit of litigation in making products safe for the consumer in general. Insulation meaning you probably haven't lost somebody due to negligence of another. If you have, I bet you were all for limiting what types of damages you could seek. Right.

Well, in your free market if MDs are less because insurance is high, then insurance should come down because the demand is less. If they get passed on to the end user then the end user should have a choice to go to a doctor or hospital that sends less of this cost to the end user. That will drive all of this bad stuff away and we can all hold hands and sing about the great virtue of the free market in healthcare!

I'm willing to wade thru the code words the right tosses out about lazy people, mostly minorities, and "lawyers" winning millions in litigation when somebody produces a product that endangers the consumer. We all benefit from that, at a fraction of the cost if it didn't exist, even if some of us don't realize it.

One of my favorite spectator events is watching wingnuts run to lawyers when they get in some type of trouble. Hypocrisy runs rampant in your world.

I'll cut this one off as now you are embassasing yourself.

For your info, assuming you know something does not mean you do. You know nothing of me or my experiences with the medical world. What you have is a sharp toungue and no respect for anyone who disagrees with your view.

 

[TRDean]

Very interesting post, and again, some days I do believe it might just work. Then I read the newspaper...I mean, people carry signs with images that depict Obama as Hitler. I am fairly certain on this, but I don't think Hitler rose to real power based on the idea of a public option.

Also, I understand people being concerned when public school students are chanting our presidents name. I think it is mostly harmless, but can understand why it might be unsettling. However, I wonder how those people feel about this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-y2QghS2gU&feature=related
I have to say, when I see that, I get a bit fearful when the old woman starts to speak in tongue, and the children start to worship at the feet of the cardboard depiction of President Bush...so I guess I see their point about the chanting...

Don't fall into the media frenzy...I get sick and tired of being labeled a racist if I don't fall in lock step with everything Obama wants. Not everyone is calling Obama Hitler. Bush was called names too...I didn't suport Bush by the way..just saying.

Let me say this...most of you know how I stand on the issue...but when a bill is passed (and I hope this will be over soon) no matter what...I will support it. If it means I make too much and have to do things differently I will. If it is better for the country and the majority of people agree...lets do it.

Last thing...I hear a lot of negativity about the US. Some of it is founded, but some is not. I stated in an earlier post...I don't know the number...but how much money and aid does the US provide the rest of the world every year. 3 years ago the US gave the Republic of Georgia 500 million. This is one small country. So please...the US is not some giant monster that is trying to gobble up the world. As TFF said...there is theroetical and there is practical. Did anyone notice the Chinese parade...lots of new weapons....

 

[ChrisE]

I'll cut this one off as now you are embassasing yourself.

For your info, assuming you know something does not mean you do. You know nothing of me or my experiences with the medical world. What you have is a sharp toungue and no respect for anyone who disagrees with your view.

Then put your money where your mouth is. It's easy to say I don't know what I am talking about, then duck out of the room. Why don't you try again?

If somebody you cared about was injured or died from medical negligence, would you want government imposed restriction on the amount of damages you could receive? Do you think incentive provided by the threat of litigation helps or hurts the product for the consumer? Please explain.

Please explain why less MD's in the profession would not drive down the cost of malpractice insurance, using the supply/demand model.

Finally, if whatever overhead costs of healthcare in passed on to the consumer, then explain how easy it is in the free market the consumer can shop around in the healthcare marketplace and find a provider/hospital/doctor etc. that either passes less cost onto the consumer resulting in less profit, or one that has streamlined their operations to cut waste to help absorb some of this added cost.

Thanks.

PS - I have a sharp tongue because I have a habit of sharpening it between my teeth. See my avatar.

 

[Anonymous]

Don't fall into the media frenzy...I get sick and tired of being labeled a racist if I don't fall in lock step with everything Obama wants. Not everyone is calling Obama Hitler. Bush was called names too...I didn't suport Bush by the way..just saying.

Let me say this...most of you know how I stand on the issue...but when a bill is passed (and I hope this will be over soon) no matter what...I will support it. If it means I make too much and have to do things differently I will. If it is better for the country and the majority of people agree...lets do it.

Last thing...I hear a lot of negativity about the US. Some of it is founded, but some is not. I stated in an earlier post...I don't know the number...but how much money and aid does the US provide the rest of the world every year. 3 years ago the US gave the Republic of Georgia 500 million. This is one small country. So please...the US is not some giant monster that is trying to gobble up the world. As TFF said...there is theroetical and there is practical. Did anyone notice the Chinese parade...lots of new weapons....

But you don't have to buy into the media frenzy either. Our country has survived presidents who promoted similar public programs, and we will survive this one also. Glenn Beck is acting like the world is coming to an end, and Obama isn't promoting anything nearly as Socialist as did Roosevelt and Johnson.

I am also not worried about people who can stay away from fatalistic rhetoric and disagree with him yet still recognize he is our legitimate leader. It is those that act irrationally who scare me.

 

[TRDean]

But you don't have to buy into the media frenzy either. Our country has survived presidents who promoted similar public programs, and we will survive this one also. Glenn Beck is acting like the world is coming to an end, and Obama isn't promoting anything nearly as Socialist as did Roosevelt and Johnson.

I am also not worried about people who can stay away from fatalistic rhetoric and disagree with him yet still recognize he is our legitimate leader. It is those that act irrationally who scare me.

I've never listened to Glen Beck in my life...or Rush...I know they are out there...

 

[python]

Don't fall into the media frenzy...I get sick and tired of being labeled a racist if I don't fall in lock step with everything Obama wants. Not everyone is calling Obama Hitler. Bush was called names too...I didn't suport Bush by the way..just saying.

Let me say this...most of you know how I stand on the issue...but when a bill is passed (and I hope this will be over soon) no matter what...I will support it. If it means I make too much and have to do things differently I will. If it is better for the country and the majority of people agree...lets do it.

Last thing...I hear a lot of negativity about the US. Some of it is founded, but some is not. I stated in an earlier post...I don't know the number...but how much money and aid does the US provide the rest of the world every year. 3 years ago the US gave the Republic of Georgia 500 million. This is one small country. So please...the US is not some giant monster that is trying to gobble up the world. As TFF said...there is theroetical and there is practical. Did anyone notice the Chinese parade...lots of new weapons....

your post is full of good points and some striking ignorance. easy to google out: the us is way behind other industrially developed countries per gdp giving foreign aid. georgia? they got 500 million and started a war against another small ethnic minority. most likely with the us blessing and were criticized by the european union. most of the us foreign aid is politically motivated and focused on the middle east. it's this kind of ignorance that makes some (some!) Americans deaf to foreign experience. just sayin'

 

[Bala Verde]

Last thing...I hear a lot of negativity about the US. Some of it is founded, but some is not. I stated in an earlier post...I don't know the number...but how much money and aid does the US provide the rest of the world every year. 3 years ago the US gave the Republic of Georgia 500 million. This is one small country. So please...the US is not some giant monster that is trying to gobble up the world. As TFF said...there is theroetical and there is practical. Did anyone notice the Chinese parade...lots of new weapons....

I don't know if you refer to me, but I am not 'negative' in the sense that I try to make USA look like a global evil doer. I and others, are sharing experiences from living abroad, in other countries and try to emphasize different approaches from which the US could benefit. No country is a finished project, so sharing different methods could foster mutual understanding, and contribute to improvements in the each country's public sector.

About developing aid, here is a graph OECD, absolute figures and Aid as a % of Gross National Income or here. The US gives most in absolute numbers, but percentage wise it's way below - like many other countries - the predetermined goal of 0.7% of GNI.

The fact that Georgia received 500 million is very likely an after-effect of the Rose Revolution in 2003, when a pro-western president came to power. A stab in the back for Russia, and an attempt to consolidate democracy. It certainly wouldn't surprise me if Georgia has been very cooperative with US military preparations in Afghanistan/Iraq (opening airbases etc).

Nothing wrong with that, but it might explain why the numbers (500 mil for such a country) are so skewed.

 

[TRDean]

your post is full of good points and some striking ignorance. easy to google out: the us is way behind other industrially developed countries per gdp giving foreign aid. georgia? they got 500 million and started a war against another small ethnic minority. most likely with the us blessing and were criticized by the european union. most of the us foreign aid is politically motivated and focused on the middle east. it's this kind of ignorance that makes some (some!) Americans deaf to foreign experience. just sayin'

Your use of the word ignorance is really funny!! I'm glad you googled your information. I guess for you the US is just one big bad apple. I guess being criticized by the EU is really really bad!!! Of course foreign aid is politically motivated...all of it is, not just from the US.

By the way, next time you have a discussion with someone who you disagree with...you will do much better than to start out by calling them ignorant

 

[python]

Your use of the word ignorance is really funny!! I'm glad you googled your information. I guess for you the US is just one big bad apple. I guess being criticized by the EU is really really bad!!! Of course foreign aid is politically motivated...all of it is, not just from the US.

By the way, next time you have a discussion with someone who you disagree with...you will do much better than to start out by calling them ignorant

thicken your skin chap. one of the meanings of ignorance is lack of knowledge.
you demonstrated it while trying to argue a point and shouldn't not take it as a personal affront. it was not meant that way. another poster several minutes after me said the same thing. i like amarica but some ignorant folks still think they are in the 80s and 90s. look around.

 

[TRDean]

thicken your skin chap. one of the meanings of ignorance is lack of knowledge.
you demonstrated it while trying to argue a point and shouldn't not take it as a personal affront. it was not meant that way. another poster several minutes after me said the same thing. i like amarica but some ignorant folks still think they are in the 80s and 90s. look around.

I don't need to thicken my skin "chap"...there are other ways of saying ignorance that don't have the connotation...racists are ignorant...lacking facts in an argument is not...big difference. Every post on here that is not in step with the left thinking posters is met with attacks on education level. That is not a productive process...now, tell me what is ignorant?

 

[TRDean]

your post is full of good points and some striking ignorance. easy to google out: the us is way behind other industrially developed countries per gdp giving foreign aid. georgia? they got 500 million and started a war against another small ethnic minority. most likely with the us blessing and were criticized by the european union. most of the us foreign aid is politically motivated and focused on the middle east. it's this kind of ignorance that makes some (some!) Americans deaf to foreign experience. just sayin'

Any by the way..what in my post is ingorant...or lacking facts? I believe I actually said I didn't know...as I have in numerous other posts. The other post you refer to by BalaVerde is very well done. He answered my question in a mature manner.

Rock on!!

 

[Susan Westemeyer]

Come on guys. Keep it cool here.

Susan

 

[Anonymous]

I don't need to thicken my skin "chap"...there are other ways of saying ignorance that don't have the connotation...racists are ignorant...lacking facts in an argument is not...big difference. Every post on here that is not in step with the left thinking posters is met with attacks on education level. That is not a productive process...now, tell me what is ignorant?

Actually, he is right. Racists are stupid. Lacking facts in an argument is actually the definition of "ignorant." That is why I try to use the word in discourse when describing some. The term is many times used and taken as something it is not. Ignorance is something we all actually poses in any given subject regardless of expertise.

 

[Anonymous]

Come on guys. Keep it cool here.

Susan

It is on simmer in here, but has as of yet been turned up to boil. I am actually pleased with the discussion because even in the stronger disagreements, it is more civil than most threads on politics I have ever seen. It actually heartens me that the opinions here can be so disparate and yet there has been an appropriate level of decorum displayed in the great majority of posts. Posts that boiled over are much fewer than I would have expected.

 

[TRDean]

Actually, he is right. Racists are stupid. Lacking facts in an argument is actually the definition of "ignorant." That is why I try to use the word in discourse when describing some. The term is many times used and taken as something it is not. Ignorance is something we all actually poses in any given subject regardless of expertise.

It is not the definition of the word...it is the connotation...as used in the US. Now you are talking semantics....If I call one of your arguments stupid or ignorant...you know my intent. I am not showing any respect for you or your argument...

 

[Hugh Januss]

It is not the definition of the word...it is the connotation...as used in the US. Now you are talking semantics....If I call one of your arguments stupid or ignorant...you know my intent. I am not showing any respect for you or your argument...

If you are worried about the "connotation" of words in a discussion of this sort then perhaps you do need to thicken your skin a bit, although I don't know whether you are a "chap" or not.
You raise some good points in the discussion but you undermine them everytime you resort to name calling, and I say that with all due respect.

 

[fatandfast]

These last few are priceless, one guy has thin skin the other guy says this is dumb that is dumb. Then add real silly spin race is involved. Health care for everybody regardless of your age, income, race and as pointed out here it should be for the ignorant as well. Come on do really care if a guy is poor or dumb? He doesn't deserve to be healthy because he can't pay? Think it through.I was hoping to evolve. It took me a long time to realize that there are some things we don't do better in the USA.

 

[TRDean]

If you are worried about the "connotation" of words in a discussion of this sort then perhaps you do need to thicken your skin a bit, although I don't know whether you are a "chap" or not.
You raise some good points in the discussion but you undermine them everytime you resort to name calling, and I say that with all due respect.

What name calling?

 

[Bala Verde]

Anyway, back to politics.

It is probably a good thing that Chicago/US did not get the Olympics in 2016. Haven't the experts decided that it generally costs much more than it actually yields in profits? Especially when you take the always misrepresented construction budgets into account.

Although the presiding Chicago/US committee already spent close to 50 Million to prepare a bid!

Apparently there is also something going on behind the scenes between IOC and USOC, about money distribution between IOC and the respective participating national committees. There seems to be an imbalance between what the USOC gets as compared to others nations, and some of them might be upset about the distributive scheme.

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

Anyway, back to politics.

It is probably a good thing that Chicago/US did not get the Olympics in 2016. Haven't the experts decided that it generally costs much more than it actually yields?

Yep, Montreal is still paying for theirs over 30 years after the fact.

 

[TRDean]

Anyway, back to politics.

It is probably a good thing that Chicago/US did not get the Olympics in 2016. Haven't the experts decided that it generally costs much more than it actually yields in profits? Especially when you take the always misrepresented construction budgets into account.

Although the presiding Chicago/US committee already spent close to 50 Million to prepare a bid!

I had not heard that yet...I guess I am glad..although I don't live in Chicago. I guess Rio got the bid?

 

[Hugh Januss]

What name calling?

That was mostly yesterday with that Ralph guy. It doesn't even matter who started it but it was not so good. It even got the thread locked for a few minutes until I think the mods realized they might have overreacted.