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Mar 18, 2009
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Scott SoCal said:
I think you missed this part.

I think I got the gist of it. You post ludicrous totals and then retreat back to "well, it was really expensive" while distorting others opinions into no cost.

Scott SoCal said:
Asking the terrorist not to attack us is probably not the best solution.

Maybe the U.S. should try the cheap route. Instead of spending money to maintain an unnecessary empire, prop up dictators, and oppress people around the world to such a degree they want to strike back at the U.S., we could mind our own business and spend money building our economy and improving the lives of our citizens.

Scott SoCal said:
Remind me again how much the debt has increased since Bush has been out of office?

After the modern conservatives destroyed the financial underpinnings of the nation, we don't have any choice. Sitting on our duffs, watching the house burn down, and hoping that things will work out is not an option--even though it seems that is the solution being pushed by conservative leaders. Money has to be spent to alleviate the economic crisis. A lot of undeserving companies and people are getting money they should not. It is a nasty situation with no good solutions. The country should have its financial house in order during the good times so we have the means to deal the bad times without going precariously into debt. Unfortunately Bush and his modern conservatives did not leave us that option.
 
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BroDeal said:
I think I got the gist of it. You post ludicrous totals and then retreat back to "well, it was really expensive" while distorting others opinions into no cost.



Maybe the U.S. should try the cheap route. Instead of spending money to maintain an unnecessary empire, prop up dictators, and oppress people around the world to such a degree they want to strike back at the U.S., we could mind our own business and spend money building our economy and improving the lives of our citizens.



After the modern conservatives destroyed the financial underpinnings of the nation, we don't have any choice. Sitting on our duffs, watching the house burn down, and hoping that things will work out is not an option--even though it seems that is the solution being pushed by conservative leaders. Money has to be spent to alleviate the economic crisis. A lot of undeserving companies and people are getting money they should not. It is a nasty situation with no good solutions. The country should have its financial house in order during the good times so we have the means to deal the bad times without going precariously into debt. Unfortunately Bush and his modern conservatives did not leave us that option.


I don't think anyone really knows how expensive 9/11 was. Can we at least agree that it would not be desirable for something like that to happen again?


Opress people? What, the 26,000,000 Iraqi's living under Hussein? Who else are we opressing? The Taliban Tribesmen? Spend money building the economy via the 'stimulus' plan that has worked so well we have a national unemployment of 10.4%?

Financial underpinnings? You know that's capitalism you speak of, right? One would think you'd be thrilled at this development since capitalism is such a horrendous system (you know, "for profit" business's).

I'm trying to follow you here....
 
Mar 18, 2009
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CentralCaliBike said:
Perhaps he was so distracted that he was unaware of the numerous UN resolutions that he violated.

Of course he was paying for terrorist activities at $25,000 per suicide bombing.

So what? The Israelis are currently violating numerous UN resolutions and committing war crimes against an occupied people. The U.S. pays billions of dollars a year to continue the occupation. The Palestinians have the right to fight for their freedom with the means they have available, which is not much.

Saddam was no danger to the U.S. He could have been left in Iraq like Castro in Cuba for minimal cost to the U.S.
 
Jul 23, 2009
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BroDeal said:
So what? The Israelis are currently violating numerous UN resolutions and committing war crimes against an occupied people. The U.S. pays billions of dollars a year to continue the occupation. The Palestinians have the right to fight for their freedom with the means they have available, which is not much.

Saddam was no danger to the U.S. He could have been left in Iraq like Castro in Cuba for minimal cost to the U.S.

So it is ok to pay people to go and intentionally blow up kids and the elderly, specifically targeting civilians, but it is not to go after someone who has stated an intent to attack us? Interesting liberal logic.

Of course Castro has no oil so is a little less able to promote his agenda (although with Venezuela's backing, Cuba may become a greater threat).
 
Mar 18, 2009
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Scott SoCal said:
Spend money building the economy via the 'stimulus' plan that has worked so well we have a national unemployment of 10.4%?

What would the number be without stimulus spending? What is your solution? To do nothing and hope for the best? Bush left us with no good options.

Scott SoCal said:
Financial underpinnings? You know that's capitalism you speak of, right? One would think you'd be thrilled at this development since capitalism is such a horrendous system (you know, "for profit" business's).

No, it is not capitalism--except in the whacky world of modern conservatism. Capitalism is not sitting by and allowing large segments of the population to be defrauded. It is not allowing people to get wealthy by cooking the books instead of manufacturing a real product or providing a valuable service. It is not allowing companies to sell insurance in the form of CDSes without the ability to make good on their obligation.
 
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BroDeal said:
So what? The Israelis are currently violating numerous UN resolutions and committing war crimes against an occupied people. The U.S. pays billions of dollars a year to continue the occupation. The Palestinians have the right to fight for their freedom with the means they have available, which is not much.

Saddam was no danger to the U.S. He could have been left in Iraq like Castro in Cuba for minimal cost to the U.S.

It's our fault the islamo-fascists attack us. It's Israel's fault they are attacked...

Surfing a bit too much at the daily kos?
 
Mar 18, 2009
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CentralCaliBike said:
So it is ok to pay people to go and intentionally blow up kids and the elderly, specifically targeting civilians,

You mean like the Israelis bombing school children?

CentralCaliBike said:
Of course Castro has no oil so is a little less able to promote his agenda (although with Venezuela's backing, Cuba may become a greater threat).

Yeah, sure. Is Castro going to come to Florida and litter the state with his cigar ash? Most days he can barely get out of bed. The people in his regime are waiting for him to die so they can move forward with market reforms.
 
Mar 11, 2009
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CentralCaliBike said:
Of course Castro has no oil so is a little less able to promote his agenda (although with Venezuela's backing, Cuba may become a greater threat).

:confused:

ROFLMAO
 
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Anonymous

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BroDeal said:
What would the number be without stimulus spending? What is your solution? To do nothing and hope for the best? Bush left us with no good options.



No, it is not capitalism--except in the whacky world of modern conservatism. Capitalism is not sitting by and allowing large segments of the population to be defrauded. It is not allowing people to get wealthy by cooking the books instead of manufacturing a real product or providing a valuable service. It is not allowing companies to sell insurance in the form of CDSes without the ability to make good on their obligation.

Well, Barry told us with the stimulus the unemployment would cap out at 8% and without it it would balloon to as high as 9.5% which would be 'catastrophic'.

My solution? Let poorly run business fail. Mitigate over-regulation. Punish corruption harshly. Curtail social engineering. Shrink the size of govt. Show some fiscal restraint. Realize the damage of confiscatory tax policy. Encourage (through tax policy) small business expansion (thus job creation).

It's not that hard but it is contrary to central control/central govt.

The Nation's financial and free market 'underpinnings' are rooted in capitalism... or at least they used to be.
 
Mar 18, 2009
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titan_90 said:

I know. It's like paranoid ravings from an alternate universe where there are enemies under every bed. Eat your brussel sprouts or Castro will get you!! Castro!
 
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Anonymous

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CentralCaliBike said:
And the current administration is not prone to geographic, historical, and political gaffs? Vice President Biden could fill a book and I have listened to some rather entertaining clips of the President's blunders as well. Of course Hillary makes most of hers talking about the certain danger she faced traveling around the world for her husband President while arriving under sniper fire.

Say what you want, but she is dumb even if she never opened her mouth. Sorry, all of the other people you listed have at least 20 IQ points on her, and that makes all the difference in the world.
 
Mar 18, 2009
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Scott SoCal said:
My solution? Let poorly run business fail. Mitigate over-regulation. Punish corruption harshly. Curtail social engineering. Shrink the size of govt. Show some fiscal restraint. Realize the damage of confiscatory tax policy. Encourage (through tax policy) small business expansion (thus job creation).

Sorry, but cutting government is not an option. Central has already told us that the military needs every penny it currently receives to protect us from Castro. Don't check your calendar. I assure you it is not the late 1950s.

Letting companies fail is no longer an option because the conservatives removed the restrictions on the business activities of banks, allowing them to get so large that their failure threatens the credit markets. Bernie Sanders has it right. "If it is too big to fail then it is too big to exist."

If corporate governance actually worked then problems like GM being run into the ground over a period of nearly forty years would not happen. The shareholders would have cleaned house decades ago, bringing in people who actually know how to run a business. But it does not work, so we are where we are.

Social engineering can be used to prevent market failures, which are common. Lack of planning for the future rarely ends well.

Small business would benefit from a working health care system. It would greatly increase entrepreneurial activity. As it is, the step between hiring starving college kids and people with family responsibilities is very large because of health care costs. Conservative help for small business has been giving tax advantages to all passive income instead of targeting investment in new business--well, that and making it cheaper for douchebags with small businesses to purchase useless Hummers.
 
Jul 23, 2009
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BroDeal said:
The Palestinians have the right to fight for their freedom with the means they have available, which is not much.

I guess the right to defend against aggression is pales in comparison:

1936>1939 - Palistinians kill several hundred Jews during a conflict with the British. The Palestinian leader flees to Iraq and eventually Nazi Germany

1947 - UN resolution GA 181 divides Palestine into Jewish and Arab states - the Arab league refuses to recognize the resolution (sounds familiar?)

1948 - the British leave Palestine, the Israelis (most of whom were living in Palestine prior to 1948) set up a state and are immediately attacked by Egypt, Syria and Jordan. The war resulted in Israel taking over 50% more territory that the UN allocated (seems fair since the UN did nothing to assist Israel - placing an arms embargo on the Israelis but allowing arms to be sold to the surrounding states that attacked them).

At the conclusion of the 1948 war - Jordan takes land that had been granted to the Palestinians and occupies the territory leaving the Palestinians in refugee camps. Egypt takes Palestinian land to the south with the same result.

http://www.masada2000.org/historical.html

(I happen to like this particular map and time line since it is very easy to follow)

1956 - Egypt nationalized the Suez Canal and began importing modern arms from Russia (Cold war time that we like to forget). Following the nationalization of the Canal, Egypt prevented Israeli shipping access to the canal. The Israelis, French and British invade the Sinai Peninsula - they withdraw after several months.

Interestingly, it was the Empire Building United States that forced the peace loving British and French military to leave the area in favor of UN forces once the canal had been opened to all international shipping.

1964 the PLO is created with the stated purpose of the liquidation of Israel - words that suggest a respect for the rights of Israelis to live on land that they had won by UN resolution and war.

1967 - Egypt closed the Suez to Israeli shipping again, kicked out the UN peacekeepers, and parked a large number of troops in the Sinai desert on the border of Israel. Israel responded by destroying a military target (the Egyptian air force) and occupying the Sinai, Gaza and the Golan Heights (this in answer to the shelling by Syria).

1973 - Egypt attacked Israel in a similar fashion to the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. At first Israel was on the defensive. Israel offered a cease fire which Egypt and Syria rejected. At this point both Egypt and Syria had requested, and received, massive military aid (tanks, planes, firearms) from the peace loving Soviet Union, however, United States also resupplied Israel which was able to push both Egypt and Syria back retaking the canal and advancing into Syria and Lebanon.

Of course this is the simplified version for those who might have been asleep in history class but there are plenty of internet sources available if you do not appreciate the following:

http://www.mideastweb.org/timeline.htm
 
Mar 18, 2009
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CentralCaliBike said:
I guess the right to defend against aggression is pales in comparison...

• Yehida: Dec. 13, 1947: Men of the Arab village of Yehida (near Petah Tekva, the first Zionist settlement to be established) met at the local coffee house when they saw a British Army patrol enter the village, they were reassured especially that Jewish terrorists had murdered 12 Palestinians the previous day. The four cars stopped in front of the cafe house and out stepped men dressed in khaki uniforms and steel helmets. However, it soon became apparent that they had not come to protect the villagers. With machine guns they sprayed bullets into the crowd gathered in the coffee house. Some of the invaders placed bombs next to Arab homes while other disguised terrorists tossed grenades at civilians. For a while it seemed as if the villagers would be annihilated but soon a real British patrol arrived to foil the well organized killing raid. The death toll of 7 Arab civilians could have been much higher. Earlier the same day 6 Arabs were killed and 23 wounded when home made bombs were tossed at a crowd of Arabs standing near the Damascus Gate in Jerusalem. In Jaffa another bomb killed six more Arabs and injured 40.

• Khisas: Dec. 18, 1947: Two carloads of Haganah terrorists drove through the village of Khisas (on the Lebanese Syrian border) firing machine guns and throwing grenades. 10 Arab civilians were killed in the raid.

• Qazaza: Dec. 19, 1947: 5 Arab children were murdered when Jewish terrorists blew up the house of the village mukhtar (governor).

• Al-Sheikh village: Jan. 1, 1948: On that night around two hundred Zionists armed with hand grenades and machine guns sneaked into a small village called Al-Shaikh village (5km South East of Haifa). The attackers came through the southern hills (most possibly from Nisher Jewish settlement which lies about 5 Kilometers south of the village). They attacked the houses on the edges of the village with hand-grenades and finished off with machine-guns killing around 40 of the Palestinians inhabitants of the village, mostly women and children.

• Deir Yassin: April 9-10, 1948: The massacre that became the symbol of Zionist aggression for the Palestinians as well as Zionist treachery. The mukhtar of the village had agreed with the Zionists to provide information on the movement of strangers in the area as well as other intelligence provided their village is spared. The Zionists were not to keep their side of the promise. In an operation, which was called Operation Unity, the Haganah co-operated with the Irgun and the Stern Gang is this operation. At 4:30 am on Friday April 9th 1948 surrounded the village, which was overlooked by two Jewish settlements, Givat Shaul and Montefiore. For two days Zionist terrorists killed men women and children, raped women and stole their jewelry. A chilling account of the massacre is given by a Red Cross doctor who arrived at the village on the second day and saw himself — the mopping up as one of the terrorists put it to him. He says that the mopping up- had been done with machine guns, then grenades and finished of with knives. Women’s bellies were cut open and babies were butchered in the hands of their helpless mothers. Around 250 people were murdered in cold blood. Of them 25 pregnant women were bayoneted in the abdomen while still alive. 52 children were maimed under the eyes of their own mothers, and they were slain and their heads cutoff. The Jewish Agency and the commander of the British ground troops knew of the massacre while it was going on, however, no one intervened to stop it.

• Naser Al-Din: April 13-14, 1948, a contingent of Lehi and Irgon entered this village (near Tiberias) entered the village on the night of 13 April dressed as Arab fighters. Upon their entrance to the village the people went out to greet them, the terrorists met them with fire, killing every single one of them. Only 40 people survived. All the houses of the village were raised to the ground.

• Beit Daras: May 21, 1948, after a number of failed attempts to occupy this village, the Zionists mobilized a large contingent and surrounded the village. The people of Beit Daras decided that women and children should leave. As women and children left the village they were met by the Zionist army who massacred them despite the fact that they could see they were women and children fleeing the fighting.

• The Dahmash Mosque: July 11, 1948, after the Israeli 89th Commando Battalion lead by Moshe Dayan occupied Lydda, the Israelis told Arabs through loudspeakers that if they went into a certain mosque they would be safe. In retaliation for a hand grenade attack after the surrender that killed several Israeli soldiers, 80-100 Palestinians were massacred in the mosque, their bodies lay decomposing for 10 days in the mid-summer heat. The mosque still stands abandoned today. This massacre spread fear and panic among the Arab population of Lydda and Ramle, who were then ordered to march out of these towns after they were stripped of all personal belonging by Israeli soldiers. Yetzak Rabin, Brigade Commander then says: “There was no way of avoiding the use of force and warning shots in order to make the inhabitants march ten to fifteen miles to the point where they met up with the legion.” Most of the 60,000 inhabitants of Lyda and Ramble came to refugee camps near Ramallah, around 350 lost their lives on the way through dehydration and son stroke. Many survived by drinking their own urine. The conditions in the refugee camps were to claim more lives.

• Dawayma: Oct. 29, 1948, the following is the testimony of a soldier who participated in the occupation of the village of Dawayma (in the Haifa sub district): “They killed between 80 to 100 Arab men women and children. To kill children they fractured their heads with sticks. There was not one home left without corpses .... One commander ordered a soldier to bring two women into a building he was about to blow up... Another soldier prided himself on having raped an Arab women before shooting her to death.” The massacre was perpetrated by the 89th Battalion, the authors of Lydda massacre.

• Sharafat: Feb. 7, 1951, Israeli soldiers crossed the armistice line to this village (5 Kilometer from Jerusalem) and blew up the houses of the mukhtar and his neighbors. 10 were killed (2 elderly men, 3 women and 5 children) and 8 were wounded.

• Kibya: Oct. 14, 1953, 9:30 PM about 700 regular Israeli troops attacked the border Jordanian village of Kibya, north west of Jerusalem. Using mortars, machine guns, rifles and explosives they blew up 42 houses, the local schools and the mosque. Every man woman and child found by these criminals was killed. 75 innocent villagers were murdered in cold blood. The raids were ordered by Ariel Sharon.

• Kafr Qasem: Oct. 29, 1956 Israeli frontier guards started at 4pm what they called a tour of the Triangle Villages. They told the mukhtars of those villages that the curfew from that day onwards was to start from 5pm instead of 6pm. They reached Kafr Qasem around 4:45 and informed the mukhtar protested that there are about 400 villagers working outside the village and there is not enough time to inform them of the new times. An officer assured him that they will be taken care of. Then the guards waited at the entrance to the village 43 Kafr Qasem inhabitants were massacred in cold blood by the army as they returned from work, their crime was violating a curfew they did not know about. On the northern entrance of the village 3 were killed and 2 were killed inside of the village. Amongst the dead were men, women, and children. Lutanat Danhan was touring the area in his jeep reporting the massacre, on his wireless he said, “minus 15 Arabs”; after a while his message on the radio to his H.Q. was, “It is difficult to count”.

• Al-Sammou’: Nov. 13, 1966, Israeli forces raided this village, destroyed 125 houses, the village clinic and school as well as 15 houses in a neighboring village. 18 people were killed and 54 wounded.

• The Sabra and Shatila: Sept. 15-18, 1982, after the 1982 Israeli invasion of Lebanon Phalangist puppets of the Israelis massacred over 3000 Palestinian men, women and children under the watchful eyes of the Israeli army. A body count by the International committee of the Red Cross revealed 2750 dead, the real figure is thought to be much higher and may never be known.

• Oyon Qara (Rishon Lezion): May 20 1990, an Israeli soldier lined up Palestinian labors and murdered seven of them with a sub-machine gun. 13 Palestinians were killed by Israeli Forces in subsequent demonstrations at the massacre.

• Al-Aqsa Mosque: Oct. 8, 1990, Israeli police opened fire on worshipers in Al-Aqsa Mosque killing 22 people.

• The Ibrahimi Mosque: Feb. 25, 1994, A Jewish terrorist, from Keryat Arba’ settlement massacred 60 worshipers in the Ibrahimi Mosque in Al-Khalil(Hebron) and wounded about 200. Later massive demonstrations took to the streets of Palestine and the Zionist army responded by life ammunitions killing 23 and wounding hundreds more. Reports indicate there were 3 Jewish settler gunners, not only one.

• The Jabalia: March 28, 1994, A Jewish undercover police opened fire on Palestinian activists brutally killing 6 and injuring 49. Some of the wounded activists were taken out of their cars and shot in their heads to death.
 
Mar 11, 2009
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CentralCaliBike said:
Some thought the same about Al Quada in 2001 - perhaps they feel the same today.

I must of forgot that Cuba is an evil communist country that wants global domination. What about Canada? they have socialized medicine so they too must be evil we better attack them before they attack us. We better not forget Mexico either they are the reason we have drug problems in the USA.
 
Mar 18, 2009
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CentralCaliBike said:
Some thought the same about Al Quada in 2001 - perhaps they feel the same today.

Castro!!

Let me guess. You are a big fan of Michelle Bachmann and think that members of Congress should be investigated to see if they are pro-American. It is the McCarthy era all over again,. Only this time the threat does not look so imposing, seeing as how Castro might fall over dead at any moment.
 
Jul 9, 2009
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We could probably exhaust the bandwidth of the entire forum by cataloging the bloodthirsty treachery that has gone on between the Palistinians and Israelis ever since the UN decided it would be a good idea to take a country away from one people and give it to another. We should have offered them half of Texas from the get go.
Just goes to show what good religion really does for mankind!
 
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Anonymous

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BroDeal said:
Sorry, but cutting government is not an option. Central has already told us that the military needs every penny it currently receives to protect us from Castro. Don't check your calendar. I assure you it is not the late 1950s.

Letting companies fail is no longer an option because the conservatives removed the restrictions on the business activities of banks, allowing them to get so large that their failure threatens the credit markets. Bernie Sanders has it right. "If it is too big to fail then it is too big to exist."

If corporate governance actually worked then problems like GM being run into the ground over a period of nearly forty years would not happen. The shareholders would have cleaned house decades ago, bringing in people who actually know how to run a business. But it does not work, so we are where we are.

Social engineering can be used to prevent market failures, which are common. Lack of planning for the future rarely ends well.

Small business would benefit from a working health care system. It would greatly increase entrepreneurial activity. As it is, the step between hiring starving college kids and people with family responsibilities is very large because of health care costs. Conservative help for small business has been giving tax advantages to all passive income instead of targeting investment in new business--well, that and making it cheaper for douchebags with small businesses to purchase useless Hummers.


Geez, I didn't realize the military took 100% of the federal budget. You're right, we need to cut that.

You sure that wasn't Colonel Sanders that said that?

GM was run into the ground by the UAW. The billions in 'bail-outs' was a not-so-suttle payoff to Gettlefinger and the boys. UAW didn't feel much need to 'share the pain' when they knew Barry was on the way with his checkbook. Hell, now they are stakeholders. Kinda reminds my of Barney Frank arguing more regulations are needed at Fannie and Freddy when he was screwing them into the ground. No corruption there.

Social engineering prevents market failures? You mean, wealth re-distrubuion, welfare, stuff like that?

Entreprenurial activity increased by a working healthcare system? You mean govt run healthcare? Have any idea as to how many entrepreneurs there are in the health industry that you want to nationalize? I'm a small business owner and I'm puzzled at how my entrepreneurial activity might increase with a govt run health system.. On second thought, it better increase because I'm going to have a helluva lot higher percentage of my net income confiscated lest I wind up in the poky.

Hiring starving college kids went out with the minimum wage laws. Ever wonder why there are no entry level jobs in this country anymore, or that the teenage unemployment rate is over 50%? The leftist hysterical rant "how can a family of four survive on $6.45 an hour"....

Why in the hell would anyone want to put their capital at risk starting a new venture with your crowd running the show? Unless you are AlGore (and even his bet don't look real good right now), one has enormous risk, long hours, hard work, huge obligation only to have someone like you wagging your finger demanding more and more meanwhile Barry and the boys are raiding the refrigerator every night. Nope, it's much easier to just sit back, drink my Belgian beer and put as little of my capital at risk as possible. Since I'm the problem I'll just go ahead and sit this one out.
 
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Anonymous

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Hugh Januss said:
We could probably exhaust the bandwidth of the entire forum by cataloging the bloodthirsty treachery that has gone on between the Palistinians and Israelis ever since the UN decided it would be a good idea to take a country away from one people and give it to another. We should have offered them half of Texas from the get go.
Just goes to show what good religion really does for mankind!

The Israelis would never live or want to live in Texas. They already own and operate the city of New York. Why not give them the entire souther portion of New York State?

Instead the great wonderful UN / British set the Israelis up on a man made country with no borders because the property belonged to or was lived on by other people named the Palistinians.

Don't worry about Israel to much because Iran will take care of that problem in a few years.
 
Jul 23, 2009
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BroDeal said:
• Yehida: Dec. 13, 1947
• Khisas: Dec. 18, 1947
• Qazaza: Dec. 19, 1947
• Al-Sheikh village: Jan. 1, 1948
• Deir Yassin: April 9-10, 1948
• Naser Al-Din: April 13-14, 1948
• Beit Daras: May 21, 1948
• The Dahmash Mosque: July 11, 1948
• Dawayma: Oct. 29, 1948
• Sharafat: Feb. 7, 1951
• Kibya: Oct. 14, 1953
• Kafr Qasem: Oct. 29, 1956
• Al-Sammou’: Nov. 13, 1966
• The Sabra and Shatila: Sept. 15-18, 1982
• Oyon Qara (Rishon Lezion): May 20 1990
• Al-Aqsa Mosque: Oct. 8, 1990
• The Ibrahimi Mosque: Feb. 25, 1994
• The Jabalia: March 28, 1994

• April 4, 1920, 60,000-70,000 Arabs had already congregated in the city square, and groups of them had already been attacking Jews in the Old City's alleys for over an hour; the Jews hid. ... The crowd shouted "Independence! Independence!" and "Palestine is our land, the Jews are our dogs! During the next three hours, 160 Jews were wounded.

On Monday, as disturbances grew worse, the Old City was sealed off by the army and no one was allowed to exit the area. Martial law was declared, but looting, burglary, rape, and murder continued. Several homes were set on fire, and tombstones were shattered. British soldiers found that the majority of illicit weapons were concealed on the bodies of Arab women.

• On the night before 1 May 1921, the Jewish Communist Party (precursor of the Palestine Communist Party) distributed Arabic and Yiddish fliers calling for the toppling of British rule and the establishing a "Soviet Palestine". The party announced its intention to parade from Jaffa to neighboring Tel Aviv to commemorate May Day. On the morning of the parade, despite a warning to the 60 members present from one of Jaffa's most senior police officers, Toufiq Bey al-Said, who visited the party's headquarters, the march headed from Jaffa to Tel Aviv through the mixed Jewish-Arab border neighborhood of Menashia (Manshiyya).

Another large May Day parade had also been organized for Tel Aviv by the rival socialist Ahdut HaAvoda group, with official authorization. When the two processions met, a fistfight erupted. Police attempted to disperse the about 50 communist protesters,and Muslims and Christians intervened to help the police against the Jews. A general disturbance quickly ensued and spread to the southern part of town.

Dozens of British, Arab, and Jewish witnesses all reported that Arab men bearing clubs, knives, swords, and some pistols broke into Jewish buildings and murdered their inhabitants, while women followed to loot. They attacked Jewish pedestrians and destroyed Jewish homes and stores. They beat and killed Jews in their homes, including children, and in some cases split open the victims' skulls.

The riot resulted in the deaths of 47 Jews and 48 Arabs, with 146 Jews and 73 Arabs being wounded. Most Arab casualties resulted from clashes with British forces attempting to restore order.


• New bloody riots broke out in Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem on November 2, 1921, when five Jewish residents and three of their Arab attackers were killed, which led to calls for the resignation of the city's commissioner, Sir Ronald Storrs.

• Between August 20 and 24, 1929, 17 Jews were killed in the Jerusalem area. The worst killings occurred in Hebron and Safed while others were killed in Motza, Kfar Uria, Jerusalem and Tel Aviv.

• Hebron massacre refers to the murder of sixty-seven Jews on 23 and 24 August 1929 in Hebron, then part of the British Mandate of Palestine, by Arabs incited to violence by false rumors that Jews were massacring Arabs in Jerusalem and seizing control of Muslim holy places. This massacre, together with that of Safed, sent shock waves through Jewish communities in Palestine and across the world.

60 Jews were wounded and Jewish homes and synagogues were ransacked; Nineteen local Arab families saved 435 Jews by hiding them in their houses even under their own life risk.

The survivors were evacuated from Hebron by the British authorities. Many returned in 1931, but almost all left again during 1936-1939. It also led to the re-organization and development of the Jewish paramilitary organization, the Haganah, which later became the nucleus of the Israel Defense Forces.

• 1929 Safed massacre took place on 29 August during the 1929 Palestine riots. Eighteen Jews were killed and eighty wounded. The main Jewish street was looted and burned.

• October 2, 1938 during the 1936-1939 Arab revolt in Palestine, in the city of Tiberias. Tiberias was then located in the British Mandate of Palestine and today it located in the State of Israel.

After infiltrating the Kiryat Shmuel neighborhood, Arab rioters killed twenty Jews in Tiberias.

A representative of the British mandate reported that: "It was systematically organized and savagely executed. Of the nineteen Jews killed, including women and children, all save four were stabbed to death. That night and the following day the troops engaged the raiding gangs".

After the massacre, the Irgun wanted to make a joint retaliatory operation with Haganah to deter such events, but Haganah did not agree.

• About one month after the general strike [April 1938] started, the leadership group declared a general non-payment of taxes in explicit opposition to Jewish immigration. In the countryside, armed insurrection started sporadically, becoming more organized with time. One particular target of the rebels was the oil pipeline of the Iraq Petroleum Company constructed only a few years earlier to Haifa from a point on the Jordan River south of Lake Tiberias. This was repeatedly bombed at various points along its length. Other attacks were on railways (including trains) and on civilian targets such as Jewish settlements, secluded Jewish neighborhoods in the mixed cities, and Jews, both individually and in groups.

The Haganah (Hebrew for "defense"), a Jewish paramilitary organization, actively supported British efforts to suppress the uprising, which reached 10,000 Arab fighters at their peak during the summer and fall of 1938. Although the British administration did not officially recognize the Haganah, the British security forces cooperated with it by forming the Jewish Settlement Police, Jewish Auxiliary Forces, and Special Night Squads. In 1931, an underground splinter group broke off from Haganah, calling itself the Irgun organization (or Etzel). The Irgun adopted a policy of retaliation against Arabs for attacks on Jews.

Despite the assistance of 20,000 additional British troops and several thousand Haganah men, the uprising continued for over two years. By the time it concluded in March 1939, more than 5,000 Arabs, 400 Jews, and 200 Britons had been killed and at least 15,000 Arabs were wounded.

The revolt did not achieve its goals, although it is "credited with signifying the birth of the Arab Palestinian identity." It is generally credited with forcing the issuance of the White Paper of 1939 which renounced Britain's intent of creating a Jewish National Home in Palestine, as proclaimed in the 1917 Balfour Declaration.

Another outcome of the hostilities was the disengagement of the Jewish and Arab economies in Palestine, which were more or less interwtined until that time. For example, whereas the Jewish city of Tel Aviv relied on the nearby Arab seaport of Jaffa, hostilities dictated the construction of a separate Jewish-run seaport for Tel Aviv. Historians later pointed to the uprising as a pivotal point at which the Jewish population in Palestine became independent and self-sustaining.

During the uprising, British authorities attempted to confiscate all weapons from the Arab population. This, and the destruction of the main Arab political leadership in the revolt, greatly hindered their military efforts in the 1948 Palestine war.

Most of the preceding was sourced from:http://wapedia.mobi/en/1947%E2%80%931948_Civil_War_in_Mandate_Palestine

I do not have the energy to document the thousands of attacks by Palestinians on Israelis over the past couple of decades, however, I will give some links.

If you want to know why there are so many Palestinian children casualties this is a fairly well documented report: URL="http://www.honestreporting.com/articles/critiques/Children_Under_Fire.asp"]http://www.honestreporting.com/articles/critiques/Children_Under_Fire.asp[/URL]


And a review of Palestinian tactics and war crimes: http://www.omdurman.org/warcrime.html
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Okay, if you guys are going to fight that one, I am out. Nice talking politics with you. Now that you have moved on to war based on hatred, I have no answers for you.
 
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Anonymous

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Thoughtforfood said:
Okay, if you guys are going to fight that one, I am out. Nice talking politics with you. Now that you have moved on to war based on hatred, I have no answers for you.

I'm with you. Not talking religion either.
 
Jul 23, 2009
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Thoughtforfood said:
Okay, if you guys are going to fight that one, I am out. Nice talking politics with you. Now that you have moved on to war based on hatred, I have no answers for you.

No good answers at all for that one, but when it comes to the UN, resolutions, empire building and terrorists vs. freedom fighter > that seems to be where it ends up.

UN resolutions are good unless they support Israel, in which case they are bad. UN resolutions do not have to be complied with unless they are against Israel.

And, for that matter, the war we have going with Al Qaeda and the rest of the fringe Muslim groups is entirely based on hatred (not that we do not have those with similar attitudes in this side of the ocean). It does not matter whether we pull out all of the troops out or not, these groups plan to continue to take the fight to us, starting with the troops in the middle east then coming this direction when they feel they won that battle.
 
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