World Politics

[Anonymous]

You cannot change the basic nature of man - it really does not matter how much you promote it. Fore instance, no one wants to put a tag on how much wealth is too much, they just want to say that those who have the most have too much and should give it to the government so it can give it to those who do not have as much. Unless you say what is too much the people with the most will always be envied, and the claim will always be that they have too much and are selfish not to share.

In addition, there is no consideration about what to do with those who look at government support as their right with no comparative responsibilities.

As far as I have been able to see, socialism in practice only focuses on what others have that should be given to the poor - basically state enforced charity, with no consideration about what should be done for those who have no motivation to benefit others or to support themselves.

No, socialism recognizes that without government intervention, those with the majority of wealth and power will overly tyrannize those with little to no power. That group with little powers happens to be quite large when there are no controls on the methods used by the wealthy. Taxation and distribution of that wealth to those with much less is merely a recognition that the capitalist system is inherently unfair and exploitative. Sorry, but all of the words in the world will not change the fact that those with great wealth have an immense amount of influence on the factors that affect the daily lives of those with less. And when the stakes of those decisions, made on behalf of those with the access to affect that policy, are destitution and virtual slavery, then violence follows from the poor up. Socialism is merely another method of control. It is one that spreads a minimum of wealth to those who have less, and placates them. When those people are given the ability to buy bobbles that approximate a lifestyle of relative comfort, they are much less likely to revolt. Business chugs along the way it always has, the main difference being that now those with the new found ability to buy the bobbles create more wealth in reality, because of the demand for bobbles.

Consumerism is the God of the United States. It is what we believe sets us apart from the rest of the world. It is the gospel of "he with the most toys wins." Socialism took away some of the wealth of those at the pinnacle, and they have created a consumer amusement park for our desires. We are told that to strive for more of that stuff is the meaning of life. Socialism is merely a tool used by those with wealth and power. They just got smart enough to use it as education infiltrated the populace to the point that the voices who recognized the unfairness and exploitation began to be numerous enough to affect society. Unfortunately, it appears that we are now returning to an era of ignorance, and will soon forget the real lessons of the 20th century.

People never change, you are very correct in that. And because of that, there will be a society picking through the bones of our existence trying to figure out why we self destructed. The real answer is that we always self destruct for the same reason, most people don't have meaning in their lives, so they seek satisfaction of human instincts in over abundance. We are greed. That is who we are. That is our golden calf. It will be our downfall.

 

[titan_90]

I really do not trust the guys running Medicare and Medicaid to run the show (or any other group of similar abilities and mentality). The problem is that you cannot legislate into effect the management of the program and, I believe, we would only going to get a bigger, less effective form of what we have now - besides, Medicare and Medicaid are going bankrupt and I am not sure how we can pay for more than what we cannot pay for now.

I believe that we can do it but, it is definitely not something to jam through the house and senate like they are trying to do now. I have supported a European based healthcare system for a while because they have proven that it is possible and that it works, sure there are problems but no system will ever be perfect. We need to study their systems and see what works and doesn't work and why and come up with the best system possible. I understand that this is a massive task but it is also imperative that we do it. It has been proven if the system continues the way it currently is the current system will bankrupt our nation.

 

[Anonymous]

If the socialist philosophy has benefited local society to where they can support themselves and the world around them, why isn't the UN asking countries that are primarily socialist for funding to the same, or a larger, extent as they do the United States?

perhaps they are asking, strictly in monetary terms, those who have gained the most by that unfetteredness...in other ways they ask of smaller countries like Belgie...for Doctors and Teachers to help, for many things...but I have to hand it to you Central, you have an answer for everything...keep your position...there are alot of things I might say, but keep it...defend it to the death...

Then again, I am just one of those undemocratic liberal fellows who does not even realize I am against free speech...spout off all you want...I can still tell you I think you are a moron...believe me, being a hardcore liberal in America does not mean you are against free speech or different ways...but you have every answer you will ever need no matter the article, the fact, the idea anyone gives you...and I honestly wish you luck with that position.

 

[Anonymous]

Centralcal...I am curious...what do you think of Unions in our country...? Should we have them?

 

[CentralCaliBike]

It has been proven if the system continues the way it currently is the current system will bankrupt our nation.

According to the Chinese, it appears that we are already bankrupt (or at least at a position that we cannot get more credit to fund our debt).

http://www.shanghaidaily.com/article/print.asp?id=423054

 

[Anonymous]

According to the Chinese, it appears that we are already bankrupt (or at least at a position that we cannot get more credit to fund our debt).

http://www.shanghaidaily.com/article/print.asp?id=423054

we ARE bankrupt...what do you think this Depression is about?

 

[CentralCaliBike]

Centralcal...I am curious...what do you think of Unions in our country...? Should we have them?

They have had a place in our country - but are clearly as subject to corruption as any other large organization.

I know some here hate personal experiences, but I will always remember SEIU coming in to "help" the county workers (not my current place of employment). At the end of negotiations with the county we ended up with 10% furloughs, and the union dues from our previous local union went from $5 a pay period to $20 - interestingly enough the 10% furlough suggestion was the reason the employees asked to join SEIU in the first place. SEIU stated that they would be sure that we got the maximum amount of salary increase and would be much better negotiators. It only cost us $390 a year to find out they were as greedy as any corporation.

 

[CentralCaliBike]

we ARE bankrupt...what do you think this Depression is about?

I think you might have missed out on what I have been saying all along - we are bankrupt and cannot afford more entitlements at the moment.

 

[Anonymous]

They have had a place in our country - but are clearly as subject to corruption as any other large organization.

I know some here hate personal experiences, but I will always remember SEIU coming in to "help" the county workers (not my current place of employment). At the end of negotiations with the county we ended up with 10% furloughs, and the union dues from our previous local union went from $5 a pay period to $20 - interestingly enough the 10% furlough suggestion was the reason the employees asked to join SEIU in the first place. SEIU stated that they would be sure that we got the maximum amount of salary increase and would be much better negotiators. It only cost us $390 a year to find out they were as greedy as any corporation.

But of course you have an experience with them...a negative story of the guy mowing a lawn for 50 dollars an hour the repugs throw out via the propaganda machine...I belong to a Union...Postal Union...a mailman...I make 18 bucks an hour...not great but not bad and no I don't think I deserve 50 an hour...I work my *** off for that 18 dollars believe me (do a day as a mail carrier and tell me it is an easy job...)...but my point is this...if they could get folks to do it via your ideals and your love for the free market...they could probably get someone to do it for 5 bucks (and when they hand it off to the free market sector, it will cost you about 4 dollars to send a letter to your mom, rather than a measly 44 cents)...When I was young, before Reagan...about 40 percent of americans belonged to Unions...now it about 6 percent...and way back then, more people could afford to buy houses and send kids to college and not worry that a single illness might destroy them...i.e we didnt need so much credit for all this crap because folks were making a living wage). But believe me, I am no fan of the Dems here as they have totally sold the unions out as well...but unions used to offer a fair wage for a fair job...if that is unamerican, then I just don't know the country you want to live in...

 

[titan_90]

we ARE bankrupt...what do you think this Depression is about?

It can get much worse, and I believe that it will.

 

[Anonymous]

I think you might have missed out on what I have been saying all along - we are bankrupt and cannot afford more entitlements at the moment.

Entitlements? Are you kidding me man? Well, it ain't going to the hated poor and needy...that has been dropped by how many percentages, and like therere was ever much of a social safety net in this country...it is going to WAR...we have been at war...with hugh amounts of money, unbelievable amounts for what? Going on 9 years now...a perpetual state of war...THAT is where most of the money is going...as for daily living, we can't even afford to fix our damn roads and bridges...so after this trillion dollar extravaganza your rupug buddies threw to invade another nation ( and I might remind you, our forefathers and founding folks would have been disgusted by)... don't throw figures out about providing basic health care to our people as an entitlement. Hey, the masters even need to keep the worker bees at least healthy to show up to continue to make them money...basic premise of adam smith by the way.

 

[Anonymous]

It can get much worse, and I believe that it will.

you are right there...just wait and see...they bailed out the wrong folks and changed nothing...the repugs started it of course...and the dems went along with it...Obama has been a failure on that line by the continuation of the crap...he is one bought and sold mofo in my opinion...and what is going to happen is this: they didnt shore off any of the real problems: they fixed wall street and didnt regulate (pretty much they were bought out) thus ensuring the system is going into chaos within 5 to 6 years again...notice how altho the recession has been officially pronounced as "over" that things are getting worse? Noone in the bottom 75 percent believes this. Yeah, it is over for the top 3 percent...there are many economists out there saying this right now...that the next depression is going to come very quickly and that this is a false front...same folks who were saying it before the big fall and not getting much voice. The next one is going to be much more nasty...and the Dems are already saying they won't bail out wall street again...if you believe that I have the proverbial swamp land to sell you Titan.

 

[CentralCaliBike]

But of course you have an experience with them...a negative story of the guy mowing a lawn for 50 dollars an hour the repugs throw out via the propaganda machine...I belong to a Union...Postal Union...a mailman...I make 18 bucks an hour...not great but not bad and no I don't think I deserve 50 an hour...I work my *** off for that 18 dollars believe me (do a day as a mail carrier and tell me it is an easy job...)...but my point is this...if they could get folks to do it via your ideals and your love for the free market...they could probably get someone to do it for 5 bucks (and when they hand it off to the free market sector, it will cost you about 4 dollars to send a letter to your mom, rather than a measly 44 cents)...When I was young, before Reagan...about 40 percent of americans belonged to Unions...now it about 6 percent...and way back then, more people could afford to buy houses and send kids to college and not worry that a single illness might destroy them...i.e we didnt need so much credit for all this crap because folks were making a living wage). But believe me, I am no fan of the Dems here as they have totally sold the unions out as well...but unions used to offer a fair wage for a fair job...if that is unamerican, then I just don't know the country you want to live in...

Unions are big business - they make money from their members, lobby congress, and the leadership have a number of perks that the regular members do not. I am sure that you are aware that your union leaders are an elite unto themselves.

Like I said, there was a time that unions were beneficial - they still are from time to time. But they are also human and have the same motivating factors of greed and self interest (with the leadership looking for power for themselves on the backs of their membership rolls).

I told you about my personal experience that cost me some, although not that much in comparison to others. I have a great uncle who was shot during a teamster's strike - he owned his own truck and was driving on the freeway, someone took offense to his decision to make an income. My dad had a friend who was an electrician. He is now paralyzed because he crossed union lines when his men went on strike to pick up his company tools. My dad was ordered off a job at gunpoint by a number of union construction workers because he was on a piece work job that they wanted closed down. Even with all of this I do not believe they had, or have, no place in society, just that they are not completely without greed and corruption.

 

[CentralCaliBike]

The next one is going to be much more nasty...and the Dems are already saying they won't bail out wall street again...if you believe that I have the proverbial swamp land to sell you Titan.

I agree with you about the economic outlook. However, I think the Dems are correct, they do not have the money to bail Wall Street out again.

Also, I do not believe that the recession (I think it is better called a depression at this point) is over, even for the top 3% - they are just hoping to avoid a societal collapse that is probable when the entitlements (both to the poor individual and the wealthy businessman) are cut off.

 

[Anonymous]

Unions are big business - they make money from their members, lobby congress, and the leadership have a number of perks that the regular members do not. I am sure that you are aware that your union leaders are an elite unto themselves.

Like I said, there was a time that unions were beneficial - they still are from time to time. But they are also human and have the same motivating factors of greed and self interest (with the leadership looking for power for themselves on the backs of their membership roles).

I told you about my personal experience that cost me some, although not that much in comparison to others. I have a great uncle who was shot during a teamster's strike - he owned his own truck and was driving on the freeway, someone took offense to his decision to make an income. My dad had a friend who was an electrician. He is now paralyzed because he crossed union lines when his men went on strike to pick up his company tools. My dad was ordered off a job at gunpoint by a number of union construction workers because he was on a piece work job that they wanted closed down. Even with all of this I do not believe they had, or have, no place in society, just that they are not completely without greed and corruption.

hey, thanks for the answer...wow, you have had some really awful life experiences. Or at least stories told by family. The basic point was for workers unions have provided a fair and living wage for folks for a long time. Interesting to see the differ viewpoints...you are obviously on the other side of the line in so many ways...and it is okay to have the scab mentality...

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

We need to study their systems and see what works and doesn't work and why and come up with the best system possible.

Strongly recommend any and all watch this episode of Frontline on world health care and comparative systems.

I would agree the recession/depression is going to not get better. There are indicators all over.

• About 75% of the nation - the working middle to poor have no liquidity, and no indication that this is about to change anytime soon. It's more likely to get worse.

• Personal debt is way too high.

• We're likely to see record bankruptcies in the next few years.

• Foreclosures aren't really curtailing that much and the bailouts didn't stop them much at all, but were hyper expensive. (I think the FHA will go under and be bailed out - only the term "bail out" won't be used. The government will call it a restructuring....that costs billions to shore up.)

• Unemployment numbers are skew because all the people no longer collecting, or underemployed count. It's really about 1 in 7 are not working now, or only working a couple days a week for low pay.

• About the same ratio of 1 in 7 families are now living under the poverty level, with no indication this will change anytime soon.

• Inflation numbers are askew as well, as so much of basic needs are not considered in the government's factoring of the number.

• The wars aren't anywhere near being over, and the Bush/Obama plan remains in place, burning through about $1 billion per day with no true end in sight and no exit strategy.

• Energy - which really could make a huge change in the structure of the future of the country - has taken a back seat, we continue to base our energy needs around oil, and coal, just as we did 50 years ago, or 30 years ago when President Carter of all people warned about it's future limitations.

• This health care bill isn't much of a fix at all, mostly a cash cow for insurance companies and those connected to collect more taxpayer money.

• The debt load is so high on the country, with huge deficits adding to it, and every indication these numbers will go greatly up in the future, we're getting to the point where 1 in every 6 dollars you pay in taxes will go to paying off the nation's debt, which is mostly in countries like China, Japan, and Saudi Arabia.

• If (or should I say "as") the dollar continues to slide, things will amplify even more.

If someone would like to show me that I'm wrong on any of these, to quote Ross Perot, I'm all ears.

 

[CentralCaliBike]

If someone would like to show me that I'm wrong on any of these, to quote Ross Perot, I'm all ears.

A guy I voted for twice.

 

[Anonymous]

I agree with you about the economic outlook. However, I think the Dems are correct, they do not have the money to bail Wall Street out again.

Also, I do not believe that the recession (I think it is better called a depression at this point) is over, even for the top 3% - they are just hoping to avoid a societal collapse that is probable when the entitlements (both to the poor individual and the wealthy businessman) are cut off.

My gosh...I can't believe it...but we agree with each other about something...and I am not even a libertarian...to be honest, I think they should have let the ****ing thing collapse...Obama followed Bush via the bailouts and via war...same old crap...I laugh when I hear guys like you link Obama to socialism. Honestly, that is some serious propaganda: do you think Obama the socialist would have bailed out wallstreet? He is a centerist financial guy just like clinton...and like bush with a few tweaks here and there...but again, let it collapse and see what happens...we might, just might have a chance then...probably not but then build something else...if the public wants pain via stupidity, then bring it on...

 

[CentralCaliBike]

I laugh when I hear guys like you link Obama to socialism.

I think Obama is a politician first and a socialist second.

 

[CentralCaliBike]

Obama followed Bush via the bailouts and via war.

He did not follow - Congress sets monetary policy, not the White House. Obama was voting on the bail outs before he won the election.

 

[Anonymous]

Cali...you and I might agree via this as well...here in Vermont, the liberals want to shut down our only nuclear plant...to me, as someone looking at this...nuc energy is clean ( actually, incredibly clean...it meets the green points on man many ways and does so economically for poorer folks as well)but they are going forward to kill it...also, noone wants wind energy as they are concerned about their ridge line views...it just goes on and on...so maybe, just maybe, we use only coal powered ****...but I do recognize the problem with the left, believe me. But your side is disgusting as well, much more so in the idea of unlimited greed and just complete crap actually...it's the difference between knaves and scoundrels.

 

[titan_90]

Strongly recommend any and all watch this episode of Frontline on world health care and comparative systems.

Thanks for the link, I am going to watch it right now.

 

[Anonymous]

He did not follow - Congress sets monetary policy, not the White House. Obama was voting on the bail outs before he won the election.

He put his cabinet together as well...I am not defending him here...I know he voted for it. Your guys started it...they loved it as it was just going to keep the scam going...and Obama wants the same thing as well...he is part of the same species.

 

[CentralCaliBike]

But your side is disgusting as well, much more so in the idea of unlimited greed and just complete crap actually...it's the difference between knaves and scoundrels.

If you look deep down inside you probably would find that we are all knaves and scoundrels.

Don't think for a minute that most of those on welfare would blink an eye if they thought they could change places with Paris Hilton or Tiger Woods (six months ago or today, it would not matter).

 

[Anonymous]

oh, by the way, the new health care bill that is going to be voted in is complete ****...I now have a great health care plan in Vermont as my state figured it out...that will all be over...the bill is complete junk...the dems sold out on EVERY level....