- Status
- Jul 4, 2009
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python said:
....to be fair he didn't identify the lizards properly....they are generally referred to as trans-dimensional, shape shifting lizard beings from the planet Zar-Dot( and the shape shifting is critical...note that in their natural state they look like Hillary Clinton and Ariel Sharon...hmmm....)...read, its a joke used when laughing at, errr, discussing conspiracy and loons such as myself...
... so tranquillo dude, have a beer, its been a long hard ugly week...
Cheers
- Jun 22, 2009
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blutto said:
I love Borowitz! Very often as on the money as Jon Stewart is. I just shared this -
http://www.newyorker.com/humor/boro...amas-attempt-order-new-office-supplies?src=mp
World's 85 richest own more than 3.5 billion poorest, UN report says
http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/wor...-3-5-billion-poorest-un-report-says-1.2717114
Spaceship Earth is under ****ty management and drowning in misery. Now the system is eating itself. Austerity, coming to a theatre near you.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/wor...-3-5-billion-poorest-un-report-says-1.2717114
Spaceship Earth is under ****ty management and drowning in misery. Now the system is eating itself. Austerity, coming to a theatre near you.
- Apr 2, 2009
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This was translated in la Repubblica yesterday and I found the English version. So I just throw this out there to add fuel to the fire of the Crimea debate.
As much as I don't like US and Western market imperialism, it can't be denied that what Vladimir Putin represents is a type of XIX century authoritarianism and chauvinism of which the modern world needs be wary.
http://www.newrepublic.com/article/118790/after-malaysia-flight-17-we-should-call-putin-shameless-thug
As much as I don't like US and Western market imperialism, it can't be denied that what Vladimir Putin represents is a type of XIX century authoritarianism and chauvinism of which the modern world needs be wary.
http://www.newrepublic.com/article/118790/after-malaysia-flight-17-we-should-call-putin-shameless-thug
rhubroma said:
That's an interesting contribution from you but I get it...and agree. It's too easy to be swept away from the arms of one authoritarian into the arms of another. Having said that, Putin is yet to display any of the aggression he's continually charged with - while NATO marches on.
Rock and hard place. Power needs to be decentralized in all sorts of ways. Are we ready to grow up yet? I don't know but it's a more interesting proposition than the alternative(s) as it stands.
WW just seems like such a bad option.
ps, sharing seems so much easier, but then I'm lazy.
I think Paul Craig Roberts needs a hug...
Does Russia (And Humanity) Have A Future? — Paul Craig Roberts
http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2014/07/25/russia-humanity-future-paul-craig-roberts/
...but I also think he might be onto something. Not that I like it but...
Does Russia (And Humanity) Have A Future? — Paul Craig Roberts
http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2014/07/25/russia-humanity-future-paul-craig-roberts/
...but I also think he might be onto something. Not that I like it but...
A refreshingly open call for ethnic cleansing of Palestinians from an Israeli deputy speaker
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/07/...-palestinians-from-an-israeli-deputy-speaker/
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/07/...-palestinians-from-an-israeli-deputy-speaker/
- Jul 4, 2009
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....well as long as we're raising some dust...
"Naomi Wolf Read The Bible & It "Blew Her Mind" - But Not For The Usual Stated Reasons...
Okay, so I was challenged below: "Read the Bible! God gave the land of Israel to the Jewish people."
So....I may get crucified for this but I have started to say it -- most recently (terrified, trembling) to warm welcome in a synagogue in LA: Actually if you read Genesis Exodus and Deuteronomy in Hebrew -- as I do -- you see that God did not "give" Israel to the Jews/Israelites. We as Jews are raised with the creed that "God gave us the land of Israel" in Genesis -- and that ethnically 'we are the chosen people." But actually -- and I could not believe my eyes when I saw this, I checked my reading with major scholars and they confirmed it -- actually God's "covenant" in Genesis, exodus and Deuteronomy with the Jewish people is NOT ABOUT AN ETHNICITY AND NOT ABOUT A CONTRACT. IT IS ABOUT A WAY OF BEHAVING.
Again and again in the "covenant" language He never says: "I will give you, ethnic Israelites, the land of Israel." Rather He says something far more radical - far more subversive -- far more Godlike in my view. He says: IF you visit those imprisoned...act mercifully to the widow and the orphan...welcome the stranger in your midst...tend the sick...do justice and love mercy ....and perform various other tasks...THEN YOU WILL BE MY PEOPLE AND THIS LAND WILL BE YOUR LAND. So "my people" is not ethnic -- it is transactional. We are God's people not by birth but by a way of behaving, that is ethical, kind and just. And we STOP being "God's people" when we are not ethical, kind and just. And ANYONE who is ethical, kind and just is, according to God in Genesis, "God's people." And the "contract" to "give" us Israel is conditional -- we can live in God's land IF we are "God's people" in this way -- just, merciful, compassionate. AND -- it never ever says, it is ONLY your land. Even when passages spell out geographical "boundaries" as if God does such a thing, it never says this is exclusively your land. It never says I will give this land JUST to you. Remember these were homeless nomads who had left slavery in Egypt and were wandering around in the desert; at most these passages say, settle here, but they do not say, settle here exclusively. Indeed again and again it talks about welcoming "zarim" -- translated as "strangers" but can also be translated as "people/tribes who are not you" -- in your midst. Blew my mind, hope it blows yours. "
https://www.facebook.com/naomi.wolf.author/posts/10152548360004476?fref=nf
Cheers
"Naomi Wolf Read The Bible & It "Blew Her Mind" - But Not For The Usual Stated Reasons...
Okay, so I was challenged below: "Read the Bible! God gave the land of Israel to the Jewish people."
So....I may get crucified for this but I have started to say it -- most recently (terrified, trembling) to warm welcome in a synagogue in LA: Actually if you read Genesis Exodus and Deuteronomy in Hebrew -- as I do -- you see that God did not "give" Israel to the Jews/Israelites. We as Jews are raised with the creed that "God gave us the land of Israel" in Genesis -- and that ethnically 'we are the chosen people." But actually -- and I could not believe my eyes when I saw this, I checked my reading with major scholars and they confirmed it -- actually God's "covenant" in Genesis, exodus and Deuteronomy with the Jewish people is NOT ABOUT AN ETHNICITY AND NOT ABOUT A CONTRACT. IT IS ABOUT A WAY OF BEHAVING.
Again and again in the "covenant" language He never says: "I will give you, ethnic Israelites, the land of Israel." Rather He says something far more radical - far more subversive -- far more Godlike in my view. He says: IF you visit those imprisoned...act mercifully to the widow and the orphan...welcome the stranger in your midst...tend the sick...do justice and love mercy ....and perform various other tasks...THEN YOU WILL BE MY PEOPLE AND THIS LAND WILL BE YOUR LAND. So "my people" is not ethnic -- it is transactional. We are God's people not by birth but by a way of behaving, that is ethical, kind and just. And we STOP being "God's people" when we are not ethical, kind and just. And ANYONE who is ethical, kind and just is, according to God in Genesis, "God's people." And the "contract" to "give" us Israel is conditional -- we can live in God's land IF we are "God's people" in this way -- just, merciful, compassionate. AND -- it never ever says, it is ONLY your land. Even when passages spell out geographical "boundaries" as if God does such a thing, it never says this is exclusively your land. It never says I will give this land JUST to you. Remember these were homeless nomads who had left slavery in Egypt and were wandering around in the desert; at most these passages say, settle here, but they do not say, settle here exclusively. Indeed again and again it talks about welcoming "zarim" -- translated as "strangers" but can also be translated as "people/tribes who are not you" -- in your midst. Blew my mind, hope it blows yours. "
https://www.facebook.com/naomi.wolf.author/posts/10152548360004476?fref=nf
Cheers
RetroActive said:
Roberts is a real piece of work. A former Reagan cabinet member and WSJ editor who has apparently flipped to the complete opposite end of the spectrum (providing more evidence that the spectrum is more a circle than a straight line). He seems to believe the U.S. government perpetrated 9/11, and he even suggested, though stopped short of saying so explicitly, that he was sympathetic to a conspiracy view of the Boston Marathon bombing. Though he didn’t go as far as some, who posted on this forum last year, claiming that the bombing was fake and no one was hurt, he suggests the government might have used Tsarnaev.
Given that he has such paranoid fantasies, I have trouble taking seriously anything else he says, though given his background, he's in a good position to know how the government operates. He’s sort of like an anti-doping advocate who might have some good points, but whose credibility is destroyed by his claims that the UCI gives secret, “Nazi frogmen” injections to riders it wants to bust.
Here's an article rebutting five Israelis claims about their justification for shelling Gaza.
The claims:
1) Israel is exercising its right to self-defense.
2) Israel pulled out of Gaza in 2005.
3) This Israeli operation, among others, was caused by rocket fire from Gaza.
4) Israel avoids civilian casualties, but Hamas aims to kill civilians.
5) Hamas hides its weapons in homes, mosques and schools and uses human shields.
And Israeli spokesman Mark Regev gets grilled here.
Merckx index said:
Sure, it's tricky to separate the wheat from the chaff with events like 9-11 and the Boston bombing. It's easy to get carried away but it's important to be skeptical too, imo. Intelligence Agencies have a history of playing dirty, even with their own populations. There's certainly more...ahem..."security" in the world as a result.
Look at the propaganda storm surrounding MH17, and the Ukraine more broadly, as well as Gaza atm. Are agendas at play?
I appreciate PCR's straight talking perspective, doesn't mean I have to always agree with him.
great piece, thanks.Merckx index said:
hitting nail on the head wrt a number of points, including how incredible it is to see mainstream media uncritically pick up and reproduce israel's PR points.
- Sep 25, 2009
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I regularly follow several western news sources, both from the right and left, specifically, the guardian, the financial times, Reuters, the Brookings Institution, the Carnegie Foundation etc...
Not once did I come across a single article that the ukrainian military uses phosphorous bombs on populated areas, that one international human rights groups accused their military of using grad systems, a sort of katusha, on the civilians, that just yesterday ukrain fired 40 projectiles on russian villages etc...
The info war is understandable. but not one of the 'fair and free' mass media not mentioning those facts even with an alledged note, smacks of grand complicity, no?
If my western msm accounts have been hacked and there were indeed references, please correct meand I will gladly withdraw my whining.
Not once did I come across a single article that the ukrainian military uses phosphorous bombs on populated areas, that one international human rights groups accused their military of using grad systems, a sort of katusha, on the civilians, that just yesterday ukrain fired 40 projectiles on russian villages etc...
The info war is understandable. but not one of the 'fair and free' mass media not mentioning those facts even with an alledged note, smacks of grand complicity, no?
If my western msm accounts have been hacked and there were indeed references, please correct meand I will gladly withdraw my whining.
More than thirty years ago I became convinced there was only one solution to the Israeli-Arab conflict. What I came up with I’m sure was not original—it’s pretty obvious, actually—but I don’t know if it’s ever been suggested in the media, for reasons that are also pretty obvious, unfortunately.
I would have the State of Israel move lock, stock and barrel out of the Mideast, to another area of the world. The best location, I think, would be the American Southwest. There is lots of sparsely populated land in southern Arizona and New Mexico (the entire land area of Israel could fit in a strip less than 30 miles wide along the Arizona-Mexico border). While it’s arid desert, the climate and terrain is actually quite similar to the current area where Israel exists. Though it would take some technological innovation, and the ability to access water in an area where that resource is scarce and often subjected to competing interests, I have little doubt the Israelis could make this desert bloom.
This is such a win-win situation for both parties involved. Israel would find itself surrounded not by hostile neighbors vowing to annihilate it, but by it’s biggest and staunchest supporter on one side, and a militarily weak country on the other. There would be border problems, but nothing remotely as bad as what Israel deals with now.
The U.S. would be an even bigger winner. America would get: 1) some much needed cash from the sale of the land, and transfer of title and authority to another nation; 2) a buffer state between it and Mexico (illegal immigrants attempting to cross the Mexican border in this area would become Israel’s problem, and after decades being surrounded by Arab countries, and dealing with resentful Palestinian refugees, I think the Israelis would find this problem a piece of cake); and 3) the biggest plus, America would become an instant hero to Arabs all over the world for eliminating their biggest headache.
The biggest sticking point, of course, is the Israelis’ insistence that they have a right to their ancestral homeland. I think they have to take a very hard look at their future, which promises nothing but more conflict, more wars, more death, and ask themselves if trading a Biblical myth that has been transcended by most educated Westerners isn’t worth the promise of real safety and security. The notion that Jews need a state at all in order to survive as an ethnic group is debatable; that they need this state to be located in an area where they lived thousands of years ago is the product of a long antiquated world view. If I may be allowed to stereotype, with all its oversimplifications, I have long viewed the Jews as a unique mixture of utterly practical and irredeemably mystical. The practical side needs to win this debate.
There are other concerns. When I floated this idea to some of my Jewish friends, some argued that living on former U.S. land wasn’t necessarily very secure. Just because the U.S. strongly supports Israel now doesn’t mean it would in fifty, one hundred or more years. Jews have learned to think in terms of the very long term. And the U.S. would presumably demand some tough preconditions for such a move, such as Israel’s giving up all nuclear weapons, which would make Israel utterly dependent on America's good will. But U.S. support is vital to Israel as it exists now, and if the Israelis don’t feel they can count on it for the long run, I don’t see how they can feel much safer where they are now. If they insist on having their own state, they will have to depend on forming stable alliances with their neighbors. Right now, and far into the future, the U.S. looks like a far better bet. The substantial Jewish population in America who are loyal to Israel would make this a unique situation in which they would be de facto if not legally citizens of both countries, and in a position to mediate any conflicts between the two countries.
I also don’t think the problem of dealing with Americans currently living in this area is intractable. They could be given the choice of having their land and homes bought out, and moving further north, or perhaps staying put as American citizens given permanent residency in the new state of Israel. Who knows the new job opportunities that might arise?
There is also the problem of moving an entire nation from one area in the world to another, distant location. But thanks to the substantial Jewish population in America, the move doesn’t have to take place suddenly and quickly. The new state could be developed gradually, with local institutions developed that had allegiance to the Israeli government in its current location, while the transfer of both people and power occurred gradually. When the original state of Israel was established, Jews from all over the world uprooted themselves to move to it. I don’t see why the current population can’t do the same, given enough time.
I know this will never happen, but it’s not impossible in any logical or physical sense. It’s a matter of a people saying, enough is enough, we don’t have to live in a state of war for the rest of our lives.
I would have the State of Israel move lock, stock and barrel out of the Mideast, to another area of the world. The best location, I think, would be the American Southwest. There is lots of sparsely populated land in southern Arizona and New Mexico (the entire land area of Israel could fit in a strip less than 30 miles wide along the Arizona-Mexico border). While it’s arid desert, the climate and terrain is actually quite similar to the current area where Israel exists. Though it would take some technological innovation, and the ability to access water in an area where that resource is scarce and often subjected to competing interests, I have little doubt the Israelis could make this desert bloom.
This is such a win-win situation for both parties involved. Israel would find itself surrounded not by hostile neighbors vowing to annihilate it, but by it’s biggest and staunchest supporter on one side, and a militarily weak country on the other. There would be border problems, but nothing remotely as bad as what Israel deals with now.
The U.S. would be an even bigger winner. America would get: 1) some much needed cash from the sale of the land, and transfer of title and authority to another nation; 2) a buffer state between it and Mexico (illegal immigrants attempting to cross the Mexican border in this area would become Israel’s problem, and after decades being surrounded by Arab countries, and dealing with resentful Palestinian refugees, I think the Israelis would find this problem a piece of cake); and 3) the biggest plus, America would become an instant hero to Arabs all over the world for eliminating their biggest headache.
The biggest sticking point, of course, is the Israelis’ insistence that they have a right to their ancestral homeland. I think they have to take a very hard look at their future, which promises nothing but more conflict, more wars, more death, and ask themselves if trading a Biblical myth that has been transcended by most educated Westerners isn’t worth the promise of real safety and security. The notion that Jews need a state at all in order to survive as an ethnic group is debatable; that they need this state to be located in an area where they lived thousands of years ago is the product of a long antiquated world view. If I may be allowed to stereotype, with all its oversimplifications, I have long viewed the Jews as a unique mixture of utterly practical and irredeemably mystical. The practical side needs to win this debate.
There are other concerns. When I floated this idea to some of my Jewish friends, some argued that living on former U.S. land wasn’t necessarily very secure. Just because the U.S. strongly supports Israel now doesn’t mean it would in fifty, one hundred or more years. Jews have learned to think in terms of the very long term. And the U.S. would presumably demand some tough preconditions for such a move, such as Israel’s giving up all nuclear weapons, which would make Israel utterly dependent on America's good will. But U.S. support is vital to Israel as it exists now, and if the Israelis don’t feel they can count on it for the long run, I don’t see how they can feel much safer where they are now. If they insist on having their own state, they will have to depend on forming stable alliances with their neighbors. Right now, and far into the future, the U.S. looks like a far better bet. The substantial Jewish population in America who are loyal to Israel would make this a unique situation in which they would be de facto if not legally citizens of both countries, and in a position to mediate any conflicts between the two countries.
I also don’t think the problem of dealing with Americans currently living in this area is intractable. They could be given the choice of having their land and homes bought out, and moving further north, or perhaps staying put as American citizens given permanent residency in the new state of Israel. Who knows the new job opportunities that might arise?
There is also the problem of moving an entire nation from one area in the world to another, distant location. But thanks to the substantial Jewish population in America, the move doesn’t have to take place suddenly and quickly. The new state could be developed gradually, with local institutions developed that had allegiance to the Israeli government in its current location, while the transfer of both people and power occurred gradually. When the original state of Israel was established, Jews from all over the world uprooted themselves to move to it. I don’t see why the current population can’t do the same, given enough time.
I know this will never happen, but it’s not impossible in any logical or physical sense. It’s a matter of a people saying, enough is enough, we don’t have to live in a state of war for the rest of our lives.
Merckx index said:
You're expressing your positivist worldview upon something much more irrational and nuanced than you're understanding chooses to comprehend.
Look into the history of Zionism, or Judaism for that matter, or western influence in the middle east. It's a very messy affair that can't be summed up in memes that people repeat as truths. You will be disturbed.
Zionism isn't Judaism, and Judaism isn't Judaism as it's commonly understood. How does one interpret writings from thousands of years ago as Blutto pointed out earlier? It's complex, subtle, nuanced. A personal journey.
Personally I find it all fun and interesting but I'm in the minority. The holiest of holies is an empty cube (in the mind) that one fills with intentions and imaginations and calls "reality". But this harkens back to ancient Egypt, Babylon, Sumer and probably back to Gobekli Tepe and prehistorical shamanism as does much of the mythological (archetypal) language in all ancient texts.
Look up. Much of what was anthropomorphized is written in the stars. We're in the dog days of summer when Sirius (the dog star) has lined up behind our sun. It's hot.
- Jul 4, 2009
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"In the period from July 14th to 19th, 2014 we witness a catastrophic increase (of 3473 people, or 47%) in the number of deserters in the units of the Army and the National Guard – in comparison with last week’s numbers (1847 people, 25%).
Apart from that, during the stated period the number of missing in action had increased as well (1344 people , 47%, last week – 344 people, 10%).
This phenomenon is connected to increased activity of the enemy in the Donetsk and the Lugansk regions as well as to the increase in the number of casualties in the ranks of the above-mentioned structures. This fact [negatively] influences the combat-worthiness of the personnel and makes continuation of the ATO [Anti-Terrorist Operation] impossible. In the event the negative trend continues at the same level, I estimate that 2/3 of the active combat military units currently participating in the ATO will simply cease to exist in as little as 4 to 5 days.
With the aim of preserving the combat potential of our military structures, I am proposing that we perform a withdrawal maneuver of our militarily units to the area around Dobropil’ya and Smolyaninove. After replenishment of the ammunition stocks, re-grouping as well as rotation of the personnel by at least 60%, we can continue the offensive.
Signed,
The Head of the Ukrainian Security Service of Ukraine,
V. Nalyvaichenko”
....can anyone confirm the above?...
Cheers
This phenomenon is connected to increased activity of the enemy in the Donetsk and the Lugansk regions as well as to the increase in the number of casualties in the ranks of the above-mentioned structures. This fact [negatively] influences the combat-worthiness of the personnel and makes continuation of the ATO [Anti-Terrorist Operation] impossible. In the event the negative trend continues at the same level, I estimate that 2/3 of the active combat military units currently participating in the ATO will simply cease to exist in as little as 4 to 5 days.
With the aim of preserving the combat potential of our military structures, I am proposing that we perform a withdrawal maneuver of our militarily units to the area around Dobropil’ya and Smolyaninove. After replenishment of the ammunition stocks, re-grouping as well as rotation of the personnel by at least 60%, we can continue the offensive.
Signed,
The Head of the Ukrainian Security Service of Ukraine,
V. Nalyvaichenko”
....can anyone confirm the above?...
Cheers
- Jul 4, 2009
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....find below an article about the Israeli handbook that defines the PR that goes with lobbing stuff at Gaza...and accidently killing over a 1000 people...
"Israel-Gaza conflict: The secret report that helps Israelis to hide facts..."
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...hat-helps-israelis-to-hide-facts-9630765.html
...and this wee tweetski...
@IsraelDefenseFo @HalaJaber Don't forget the new definition of "pinpoint accuracy"....The pin is the size of Gaza!
Cheers
"Israel-Gaza conflict: The secret report that helps Israelis to hide facts..."
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...hat-helps-israelis-to-hide-facts-9630765.html
...and this wee tweetski...
@IsraelDefenseFo @HalaJaber Don't forget the new definition of "pinpoint accuracy"....The pin is the size of Gaza!
Cheers
- Apr 2, 2009
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Merckx index said:
It is, however, precisely this sticking point and the nostaglia for "paradise lost" that overides any pragmatic concerns for security and compromise. Israel thus only exists within a specific territorial reality, outside of which its very notion disintigrates. Otherwise there would be no need to regain the lost homeland.
rhubroma said:
Security through blunt trauma force is clearly the call to action. Israel is destroying itself.
- Jun 22, 2009
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blutto said:
Cannot confirm or deny....but, last night I saw a clip of a "rebel leader" giving a short speech saying that he and his men would "fight to the death".
Today's latest news from the MSM - UN report says there is rampant lawlessness in rebel controlled areas, where more than 800 people have been abducted since April. presumably most, or all, are missing, presumed murdered.
'Donetsk People's Rep.' 'Deputy Prime Minister' has just announced that the 'PM' is in Moscow for talks, and that the Ukrainian army has taken the area of the crash site. This news not yet confirmed.
Meanwhile, the Int. Court of Arbitration in the Hague has ordered the Russian government to pay duped Yukos shareholders 37 billion euros ($50b) compensation.
- Jul 4, 2009
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Amsterhammer said:
....kinda weird but found the following today...
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Police team turns back from Ukraine crash site
1 hr ago - By MSTYSLAV CHERNOV and PETER LEONARD SHAKHTARSK, Ukraine (AP) — Heavy fighting raged Monday around the Malaysia Airlines debris field, once again preventing an international police team charged with securing the site from even getting there.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
...so the "good guys" aren't willing to join a ceasefire to allow the site to be secured by third parties and instead they advance and prevent third parties from reaching and securing the site....strange behaviour for someone supposedly trying to find evidence that would lead an investigation to a conclusion but maybe not so strange for someone not wanting an investigation to go forward in a timely manner...or am I just confused...?.....
....sorta like the shelling of the train station area thus preventing the train with the bodies from leaving...
"ZUHRES, Ukraine — Just hours after the Malaysian government reached an agreement with Ukrainian separatists on Sunday over access to the crash site of a Malaysian airliner shot down in rebel territory, the Ukrainian military launched an operation to recapture the debris fields, again stalling international efforts to secure the site.
The heavy fighting threatened to torpedo hopes of a breakthrough and cause yet more delays in collecting evidence and retrieving the remaining bodies from the crash. Ukrainian security officials said they needed control over the site to prevent the pro-Russia separatists from destroying clues to the downing of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17."
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/28/world/europe/ukraine.html?_r=1
...maybe Obama should pick up the phone and tell these people to back off!....
...yup, curiouser and curiouser....
Cheers
- Sep 25, 2009
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various confirmed and unconfirmed news from the donetsk peoples republic:
-a friend from germany emailed that he read an article by the su-25 chief designer that the downing of the airliner by his plane is of low probability...
this author (quite reasonably imo) comes to the same conclusion after analyzing the various tactical/technical issues. this settles my personal opinion on improbability of the air-to-air missile.
-intense fighting is taking place for the very area where the airliner crashed...i wonder what happened to poroshenko's assurance that he ordered his troops to stop any fighting within a 40 km zone... or perhaps, they are trying to gain access to some evidence ?
-speaking of evidence, according to a tweet by the nbc reporter al smith, the netherlands expressed criticism of the ukrainian leak from the investigation
-a friend from germany emailed that he read an article by the su-25 chief designer that the downing of the airliner by his plane is of low probability...
this author (quite reasonably imo) comes to the same conclusion after analyzing the various tactical/technical issues. this settles my personal opinion on improbability of the air-to-air missile.
-intense fighting is taking place for the very area where the airliner crashed...i wonder what happened to poroshenko's assurance that he ordered his troops to stop any fighting within a 40 km zone...
or perhaps, they are trying to gain access to some evidence ?-speaking of evidence, according to a tweet by the nbc reporter al smith, the netherlands expressed criticism of the ukrainian leak from the investigation
- Jul 4, 2009
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python said:
...good article, thanks for that...
....yeah I had earlier came to that conclusion after looking at the SU25 specs ( which is designed for ground support and thus has a very limited ceiling ) but then there is the description of the incident by Russian authorities which talks about an air-to-air missile with a range of 12km which if used by a SU25 could conceivably have been the weapon that took down MH17...
...that being said I really not leaning one way or the other save that I am not absolutely discounting the information provided by the Russians ( and I'm absolutely believing it either....and because of long standing serious believability issues with the other side I'm not believing them either...until they provide some tangible proof or statement beyond Operation Backpedal.... )....
...yup curiouser and curiouser...
Cheers
Sam Harris on Israel. He hedges or qualifies his views considerably, and I think he ignores the fact that when you're militarily superior to your enemy, it's much easier to act a little restrained. I don't think you can cleanly separate one's public statements vs. their enemies from their military capabilities. If the power balance were reversed, it's not clear to me that Muslims would act out what they actually say--though you can't blame Israel for believing that they would.
- Jul 4, 2009
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blutto said:
....here is an update to my earlier post...the first bit concerns the claim that the SU25 in consort with available air-to-air missiles could not possibly take down MH 17...which is what the Russians claimed....
"Su-25SM weapon suite has been expanded with the addition of the Vympel R-73 highly agile air-to-air missile (albeit without helmet mounted cuing and only the traditional longitudinal seeker mode) and the S-13T 130 mm rockets (carried in five-round B-13 pods) with blast-fragmentation and armour-piercing warheads"
...and the following...
"The R-73 is an infrared-guided (heat-seeking) missile with a sensitive, cryogenic cooled seeker with a substantial "off-boresight" capability: the seeker can "see" targets up to 40° off the missile's centerline.[3] It can be targeted by a helmet-mounted sight (HMS) allowing pilots to designate targets by looking at them. Minimum engagement range is about 300 meters, with maximum aerodynamic range of nearly 30 km (19 mi) at altitude. The weapon is used by the MiG-29, MiG-31, Su-27, Su-34 and Su-35, and can be carried by newer versions of the MiG-21, MiG-23, Sukhoi Su-24, and Su-25 aircraft."
....this missile entered service in 1982 when The Ukraine was part of the USSR .....so yes the SU 25 could be equipped with a R-73 and thus it could have taken down MH 17....
...so maybe Mr Locklin was out of his element and simply mistaken ( though this wasn't even remotely difficult to fact check and given the apparent care given to the rest of the article this lapse is strange because he does mention this particular weapon but never elaborates ) or maybe this is the same Scott Locklin that writes for the Alternative Right and he was up to no good...
...who knows maybe I misread Dr Wiki and am totally out to lunch or you may have to reconsider this situation, yet again....
Cheers
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