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Jul 30, 2011
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Yeah, but all that would have run somewhat against the need to restructure US business away from domestic production and entice the house of Saud to recycle its massive, stagnating, accumulation of US petrodollars the NY banking system.
 
Jul 4, 2009
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aphronesis said:
Yeah, but all that would have run somewhat against the need to restructure US business away from domestic production and entice the house of Saud to recycle its massive, stagnating, accumulation of US petrodollars the NY banking system.

...yup, in a tight little nutshell with a nice neat bow...

Cheer
 
Sep 25, 2009
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http://www.reuters.com/article/2014...GD0KF20140813?feedType=RSS&feedName=worldNews
Twelve Ukrainian nationalist fighters killed in separatist ambush
The separatists opened fire on the bus, that was taking the men to fight just outside the rebel-held city of Donetsk, at the nearby village of Mandrykino, said a spokesman for Right Sector, extreme nationalists who are supporting government forces.
Right Sector played a big role in Kiev street protests early this year that toppled former Moscow-backed president
as far as i can tell, this is the 1st time a western msm confirms that the 'extreme nationalist' are armed and taking part in the conflict. if so, this is a direct violation of the commitment signed by ukraine to disarm all non-government militias.

to remind, the right sector group was branded by many sources, including in the west, as neo-nazis for their nazi insignia and antisemitic statements. also, some time ago i unearthed and posted here the european parliament's own statement warning against working with such extreme right groups.

what is happening ? i recall reading rational articles in DW that the influence of neo-nazis is overblown, that 5 key national security ministries in the hands of 'extreme right' dont matter...

is europe awakening to the 'neo-nazi' presence in its midst or the reality no longer can be hidden ?
 
Mar 17, 2009
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Alpe d'Huez said:
Correct, correct, and correct.

Many people didn't like him, or all his ideas, but Jimmy Carter was completely correct with his proposed energy policies back in 1979. Imagine if we had followed his lead, 35 years ago, and where we might be now...

No matter what Carter had envisioned back then- The principal driver of the Oil industry conflict in the middle east is simply the PETRODOLLAR & the Federal Reserve. If that systems weakens and starts to be dismissed by the OPEC, the trouble for UE of A's economy will be catastrophic.
 
Aug 9, 2012
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For anyone confused about what's going on in Ukraine, don't use Russian sources, they are part of the problem.

Here is a good series about all the propaganda coming out of Russian news:
http://www.examiner.com/list/russia-s-top-100-lies-about-ukraine

http://www.examiner.com/list/russia-s-top-80-lies-about-ukraine
This one has the funny story of a Pro Russian who threw himself under a tank and destroyed it and himself.

Later in the day he apparently instead of being captured used a grenade to kill his would be captors.

He died twice in one day!:eek: The real funny thing is that he died of lung cancer 3 years ago......:D
 
Jul 4, 2009
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ToreBear said:
For anyone confused about what's going on in Ukraine, don't use Russian sources, they are part of the problem.

Here is a good series about all the propaganda coming out of Russian news:
http://www.examiner.com/list/russia-s-top-100-lies-about-ukraine

http://www.examiner.com/list/russia-s-top-80-lies-about-ukraine
This one has the funny story of a Pro Russian who threw himself under a tank and destroyed it and himself.

Later in the day he apparently instead of being captured used a grenade to kill his would be captors.

He died twice in one day!:eek: The real funny thing is that he died of lung cancer 3 years ago......:D

.... this is the source you are quoting...

"Examiner.com is a media company based in Denver, Colorado, that operates a network of local news websites, allowing "pro–am contributors"[1][2] to share their city-based knowledge on a blog-like platform, in 238 markets throughout the United States and parts of Canada with two national editions, one for each country...."

....so basically you are quoting a bunch of bloggers sitting in their mama's basement, very probably in their pj's, typing out whatever evidence/fact free $hyte that crosses their minds....

...and FYI the "professional" Western media isn't much better ( they just have nicer offices...fluffing the McBig McLie is good coin don't you know...and maybe change their underwear regularly... ).....and they are most definitely a huge part of the problem...

Cheers
 
Aug 9, 2012
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blutto said:
.... this is the source you are quoting...

"Examiner.com is a media company based in Denver, Colorado, that operates a network of local news websites, allowing "pro–am contributors"[1][2] to share their city-based knowledge on a blog-like platform, in 238 markets throughout the United States and parts of Canada with two national editions, one for each country...."

....so basically you are quoting a bunch of bloggers sitting in their mama's basement, very probably in their pj's, typing out whatever evidence/fact free $hyte that crosses their minds....

...and FYI the "professional" Western media isn't much better ( they just have nicer offices...fluffing the McBig McLie is good coin don't you know...and maybe change their underwear regularly... ).....and they are most definitely a huge part of the problem...
and maybe change their underwear
Cheers

Da Tovarich!:D

Dude the articles show screen grabs of the fake news in question. The relevant blogger in her mamas basement has collected a lot of that propaganda in one easy to access area.

Yes the western media is just as bad as the russian media. Except the "western" media has a lot more owners, languages, news rooms, editors etc...

Oh and the western media receives medals for their "objective coverage" just like their Russian counterparts...
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...eir-objective-coverage-of-crimea-9325664.html
http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...o-kremlin-journalists-medals-objective-crimea


Eh, no it's only the Russians...:rolleyes:
 
Jul 23, 2009
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ToreBear said:
For anyone confused about what's going on in Ukraine, don't use Russian sources, they are part of the problem.

Here is a good series about all the propaganda coming out of Russian news:
http://www.examiner.com/list/russia-s-top-100-lies-about-ukraine

http://www.examiner.com/list/russia-s-top-80-lies-about-ukraine
This one has the funny story of a Pro Russian who threw himself under a tank and destroyed it and himself.

Later in the day he apparently instead of being captured used a grenade to kill his would be captors.

He died twice in one day!:eek: The real funny thing is that he died of lung cancer 3 years ago......:D


Russian sources aren't accurate? I'm shocked...Where's my Vodka??
 
Jul 4, 2009
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ToreBear said:
Da Tovarich!:D

Dude the articles show screen grabs of the fake news in question. The relevant blogger in her mamas basement has collected a lot of that propaganda in one easy to access area.

Yes the western media is just as bad as the russian media. Except the "western" media has a lot more owners, languages, news rooms, editors etc...

Oh and the western media receives medals for their "objective coverage" just like their Russian counterparts...
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...eir-objective-coverage-of-crimea-9325664.html
http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...o-kremlin-journalists-medals-objective-crimea


Eh, no it's only the Russians...:rolleyes:

....ahhh, here we go, finally good solid news ( from our bestest ever friends that brought us the glorious revolution) that should end all that confusion about MH 17....find below Take 53....rolling....speed...action...

" according to the Kiev regime, the Donetsk militia did not intend to shoot down Malaysian airlines MH17. What the “pro-Russian rebels” were aiming at was a Russian Aeroflot passenger plane.

The MH17 was shot down “by mistake” according to an official statement by the head of Ukraine’s Secret Service, Valentyn Nalyvaichenko (Ukraine News Service, August 7, 2014)

According to SBU Chief Nalyvaichenko:


“Ukraine’s law enforcement and intelligence agencies have established during the investigation into a terrorist attack on the Boeing… that on that day, July 17, and at that time military mercenaries and terrorists from the Russian Federation planned to carry out a terrorist attack against a passenger aircraft of Aeroflot en route from Moscow to Larnaca… as a pretext for the further invasion by Russia,”

“This cynical terrorist attack was planned for the day when the [Malaysia Airlines] plane happened to fly by, planned by war criminals as a pretext for the further military invasion by the Russian Federation, that is, there would be a casus belli,” he added.

Thus, according Nalyvaichenko, the terrorists downed the Malaysian airliner by mistake.” (Ukraine Interfax News, August 8, 2014)"

Cheers
 
Jul 4, 2009
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Bustedknuckle said:
Russian sources aren't accurate? I'm shocked...Where's my Vodka??

...yeah but you gotta admit that some of that Russian stuff is real NYT level slick...just check the trouble they went thru to cobble together the following story, assembling the photo shopping stuff to do those posters, CGIing the "crowd", getting the lighting right, spell-checking the text....

http://rt.com/news/180456-israelis-demand-gaza-offense/

...though admittedly they kinda failed with the main thrust of the story itself.. the headline of which is...

"Finish the job!’ Thousands of Israelis rally in support of Gaza offensive"

.....I mean who could possibly believe that any reasonable human being could be so callous, bloodthirsty and uncaring ( I mean these people are the best, most trustworthy friends youse guys have, like in the entire whole world...you share core values and stuff...)....

...or put another way, if this was real news, this outrage would be plastered all over our Western media wouldn't it?....

...so where is that vodka?....

Cheers
 
Sep 25, 2009
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several sources, both sides of the conflict, reported that a column of russian military vehicles has crossed into ukraine...supposedly, poroshenko confirmed to cameron in a telecon that the glorious ukrainian artillery has destroyed the invader...
 
Jul 4, 2009
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....more confusion from Mother Russia....

"The Polish Agriculture Ministry has prepared a formal complaint to the World Trade Organization (WTO) over the Russian ban on exports of agricultural goods from the European Union, according to the Minister Marek Sawicki.

Sawicki confirmed on Monday its being handled by Deputy Prime Minister Janusz Piechociński, who is responsible for WTO cooperation and that in the coming days “the complaint will be handed over further.”

On August 1, Russia’s agricultural watchdog Rosselkhoznadzor imposed a ban on all fruit and vegetables imported from Poland, citing numerous certification problems.

Warsaw asked the EU for compensation for its farmers. However, a few days later Russia imposed a ban on agricultural goods from countries that had imposed sanctions against it, including the EU. The restrictions include fruit and vegetables.

Marek Sawicki said he is worried about Moscow’s response to Western sanctions, as it could make it very difficult for Poland to get compensation from the European Union.

Poland exported more than 804,000 tons of vegetables and fruit, worth about 336 million euro, to Russia in 2013. According to the Polish Ministry of Agriculture the country may lose more than 500 million euro due to the embargo.

On August 10 Poland asked the US to purchase the country's apples."

...so its ok to cheer on the Western sanctions, train the Right Sector and harbour enhanced terrorist "interrogation" centres...but then cry like little babies and scream for Big Brother when the $h!t hits the fan and you can't sell your apples....maybe there is some basis to all those bad Pollack joke because Poland is not looking like the sharpest pencil in the drawer...

Cheers
 
Jan 24, 2012
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blutto said:
....more confusion from Mother Russia....

"The Polish Agriculture Ministry has prepared a formal complaint to the World Trade Organization (WTO) over the Russian ban on exports of agricultural goods from the European Union, according to the Minister Marek Sawicki.

Sawicki confirmed on Monday its being handled by Deputy Prime Minister Janusz Piechociński, who is responsible for WTO cooperation and that in the coming days “the complaint will be handed over further.”

On August 1, Russia’s agricultural watchdog Rosselkhoznadzor imposed a ban on all fruit and vegetables imported from Poland, citing numerous certification problems.

Warsaw asked the EU for compensation for its farmers. However, a few days later Russia imposed a ban on agricultural goods from countries that had imposed sanctions against it, including the EU. The restrictions include fruit and vegetables.

Marek Sawicki said he is worried about Moscow’s response to Western sanctions, as it could make it very difficult for Poland to get compensation from the European Union.

Poland exported more than 804,000 tons of vegetables and fruit, worth about 336 million euro, to Russia in 2013. According to the Polish Ministry of Agriculture the country may lose more than 500 million euro due to the embargo.

On August 10 Poland asked the US to purchase the country's apples."


...so its ok to cheer on the Western sanctions, train the Right Sector and harbour enhanced terrorist "interrogation" centres...but then cry like little babies and scream for Big Brother when the $h!t hits the fan and you can't sell your apples....maybe there is some basis to all those bad Pollack joke because Poland is not looking like the sharpest pencil in the drawer...

Cheers

If there is any humor to be found in this situation, it has been reading my gov't (USA) and the EU's hyporcritical statements. Everyone does it really...

Well no ****, if you sanction Russia, it will change itself to survive. Russia's economic future is in relations with most of asia and south america. The EU should want economic relations with Russia to send food and national resources back and forth, but instead they do whatever my gov't. says.

Sorry Poland,

US produces 4081000MT of apples, exports 880000MT, imports 175000MT (2012).
http://www.indexmundi.com/agriculture/?commodity=apples&graph=imports

I'll have some Kiełbasa though.
 
Jul 30, 2011
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From an email

"Why is there no antiwar movement in Russia? Why are so few people willing to take to the streets to publicly accuse the government of furthering the war in Eastern Ukraine? People who supported the March 15 peace march in downtown Moscow still pose these questions to each other. Their numbers are constantly shrinking, but the point is that even those people who still support the spirit of protest no longer have any confidence that protest can change anything.

If the new war (or prewar) footing into which Russian society is sinking deeper has a point of consensus that unites different social and cultural strata, it is the smothering, eerie awareness of society's total powerlessness in the face of interstate conflict. The flood of news has overwhelmed the already fragile system of coordinates used by individual citizens. Their psyches cannot withstand the strain, surrendering to the unknowable, opaque logic of events, a logic seemingly less and less amenable to anyone's specific will. "It is not the mind that controls the war, but the war that controls the mind," wrote Leon Trotsky about a war whose start one hundred years ago has been somewhat timidly commemorated this summer.

The unhappy residents of Luhansk and Donetsk are now at the forefront of the collision with war's destructive power. Their testimonies on social networks—meager exchanges of information about the people who have been killed, photographs of the damage done by shelling, requests for help and offers of aid—are the voices of victims, the voices of people who have already lost. They do not divide each other into supporters of Novorossiya and a united Ukraine, and they are not holding out for "their" side to win. All they want is peace: no matter what government offers it and on whatever terms. Along with houses, infrastructure, schools, and hospitals, society has almost been razed to the ground in Eastern Ukraine. This means that a victor capable of bringing stability even amid the smoking ruins will be rewarded with the kind of docility and obedience of which no government could dream during peacetime.

The shockwaves of this barbaric destruction have overwhelmed the population on both sides of the border. It is already a commonplace to argue that domestic politics in Russia seemingly disappeared in March of this year. What is more, invoking philosopher Jacques Rancière's definition, we could argue that politics as a form of human activity based on dissent has rapidly disappeared, while state policy as the art of managing communities has attained perfection. Anything that deviates even a millimeter to the right or left of President Putin's line is immediately devalued and deprived of any independent significance. People who try to applaud the government more loudly than everyone else are rendered as politically invisible and helpless as those who oppose it. As they support their government, patriots are instantly turned into its obedient tools. Liberals who criticize their government serve wittingly or unwittingly as advocates of the other side.

The logic of war inevitably leads to identification between the government and the people, to their complete fusion with each other and the ruthless destruction of all hints of dissent. Contrary to popular belief, this identity is based not only on a chauvinism that quickly impregnates collective consciousness. The wartime "national unity" we are now headed toward derives its strength from the fear of instability, the expectation of protection from above, and the sense that subjects and rulers are ultimately in the same boat. It is hard to imagine the incredible freedom of action the state acquires with respect to citizens in this case. This victory of the ruling elite over their own society outweighs, at least in the short term, the losses from sanctions and the shame of international isolation.

Today it is impossible to predict how long this state of affairs will last. At any rate, previous successful episodes of "wartime unity" were often able to keep the majority in absolute subjection for years.

So why do we need an antiwar movement today? We should honestly point out that grassroots antiwar movements, no matter how massive, have hardly ever succeeded in preventing or stopping wars. After the outbreak of World War I, it took three more years of enormous death and destruction until supporters of "peace without annexations and indemnities" were able to turn from a marginal minority in their own countries into a force capable of changing the course of events. The textbook antiwar movement—against US involvement in Vietnam—tried for nearly a decade to influence Western public opinion before forcing a new president, faced with serious military losses, to begin withdrawing troops. Finally, the largest antiwar demonstration in London's history—the protest against the invasion of Iraq on February 15, 2003, attended by over a million people—was simply ignored by the Blair government.

But even when they are obviously going against the tide, antiwar movements have one incredibly important function—telling the truth. State propaganda, which in recent months has demonstrated its colossal capabilities, lies not merely for the sake of lying. In a state of "wartime unity," the lie is a direct continuation of hostilities and a key tool for shoring up the home front. Faith in the lie and complicity in spreading it are made civic virtues, a matter of "public interest" for which every citizen feels responsible. In recent months, many of us have discovered that we can get at the truth only by comparing the wartime lies coming from both sides in the conflict. Though largely uncontested nowadays, this method is fraught with great danger. At some point, one of the parties comes to seem more convincing.

If it really wants to bring dissent back to society, an antiwar movement should always adhere to a third position. The victims, the losers, and the frightened, everyone who has been deprived of their own voice by "wartime unity," must find this voice in the antiwar movement. A movement like this must not decide which of the parties is more culpable or less culpable; it must not put itself in the shoes of those who would never put themselves in our own shoes. That is why, in the current circumstances, an antiwar movement in Russia that opposes its government can be completely honest and effective if it works in concert with a counterpart movement in Ukraine. In both Moscow and Kyiv, we must again call into question the state's monopoly on representing the "nation."

Barely audible and almost invisible, this third position can easily get lost amidst the humanitarian sentiment displayed by both voluntary and involuntary advocates of the lie of "public interest." If, in the first case, Russia's direct involvement disappears from analyses of the situation in the Donbas and what is happening is described solely as a civil war in which an oligarchical Kyiv government is fighting against its own people, while in the second case, on the contrary, everything boils down to a clandestine Russian intervention and all elements of the internal conflict are consistently ignored, we are dealing with yet another "ruse of war."

Telling the truth means not only exposing propaganda but also pointing out the reasons behind the military conflict: the struggle over defense budgets, the redistribution of markets and property, the desire to establish total control over the rank and file in the interests of the elites. Exactly one hundred years ago, this message, which seemed radical, utopian, and naive, was eventually able to change the world. This fact seems capable of inspiring hope in our hopeless situation."


Original Russian here

http://www.colta.ru/articles/society/4067
 
Jul 4, 2009
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Sep 25, 2009
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^^look, i have no doubt that some russian/soviet made military gear is moving across that porous border. i just find it highly unlikely that the russian military would be so inept (and the ukrainian intelligence so superior by extension) that those vehicles would be sent so carelessly to be slaughtered...btw, the rebels control several border crossing over dozens kms where the flow of anything and everything flows both ways as the russians find it necessary.

...just look at another jem no less than the chief of uki security made today, 'the rebels are preparing to leave their positions and run...on the 18th august', that is a day after tomorrow :D:confused:

clearly there is some desperation in the uki camp if they come up with the stories even the us can not support despite all their intelligence assets trained on the area.
----
added: the same dude claiming that the rebels are escaping on the 18th, made another bizarre but curious claim yesterday:'hm-17 was likely shot down by, READ IT CAREFULLY..the.ukrainian buk-trained military who went over to the russians in crimea and then joined the rebels :). may be the russians and the americans indeed have the proof they were ukrainian military and the new twist is therefore floated ?...all news are from the ukrainian ultra right agency unian
 
Jul 4, 2009
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....a couple of things...

...first don't want to be beating a dead horse, but...

...the following is admittedly from a source that is more than a little out there, though with this weird ability to be dead nuts on a lot....so proceed with caution but be on the look-out for nuggets of insight

...this bombed/destroyed convoy story has become quite a little $h!tstorm, appeared out of nowhere, caused a big smell and people are still acting on it though it is becoming more and more like the swamp gas that the Western media sources have been specializing as of late...really stinky, ephemeral....

...here is what the article has to say...

"I cannot prove a negative. But then, I am not the one making the claim. The Ukies and a few British reporters did. And they presented ZERO proof. As Carl Sagan so well put it "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" and the notion that Russia would send in only 23 armored vehicles, with no protection, in broad daylight is quite extraordinary. As is the notion that in a region chock-full of Russian military units nobody would have taken any action to save the column. So even if a Russian unit got into the Ukraine by mistaken (at the age of GPS and GLONASS, yet another extraordinary claim!) the notion that those who sent it did nothing to protect or extract their own men is also extraordinary. As for the British reporters, they don't even have a cellphone to show even bad images, maybe taken from far away? They have nothing at all? Quite extraordinary again. Last, but not least, there is one more extraordinary element to this story, but one which I do believe. I just heard that the British Foreign Office summoned the Russian ambassador to the UK over this Russian incursion. Excuse me -but since when is the Ukraine part of the British Empire of Commonwealth? What business does the Foreign Office have in this matter? "

...to which I say, like wtf, NATO is now responding to swamp gas...this is not confusion, this is Grade A Weapons Grade BS....

...the full article here...and its a good read...( parts even tie neatly into something Aphro posted earlier...which btw was excellent..)

http://www.vineyardsaker.blogspot.ca/2014/08/a-couple-of-short-pointers-about.html

Cheers
 
Sep 25, 2009
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Moscow and Kiev may both need a deal over Ukraine soon
http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...lysis-moscow-kiev-deal-negotiating-table-soon

in my view, this is an informed and informative read, perhaps balanced...something is afoot.

what surprised me was that the author completely ignored Finland's offer at mediation and only talked of the german and french mediation efforts. both imo lack credibility as it was exactly them who reached an agreement with yanukovich and his opposition to be betrayed the next day. i doubt vlad will be fooled twice...

nevertheless, kudos to the guardian for the sober article.
 
Aug 9, 2012
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Luigi_Max said:
Hamas has started to execute Israel 'informants', killing 18.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-28896346
That is one way of ensuring Israel keep attacking you.

I don't see the connection. Israel will keep attacking as long as their government thinks it's a good idea. No informants means the organizations resisting will be more effective.

This is a conflict between occupied and occupier. Those who collaborate with occupiers will be dealt with. This was standard procedure in all occupied countries during ww2 for example.

Hopefully they are guilty of the crime they are accused of, but we can't know for sure.

And btw it's not just Hamas, the other groups like Islamic Jihad and PFLP also take part. I think they have some sort of tribunal set up to deal with these cases.
 

Luigi_Max

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Aug 9, 2014
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laurel1969 said:
I think you might have misunderstood. They have executed Palestinians who were spying for the Israelis.

Not an altogether unheard of response in time of war.

No, I did not misunderstand.

I also did not misunderstand that a 4 year old Israeli has been killed as well. Another great thing to do to bring about peace.
 

Luigi_Max

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Aug 9, 2014
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ToreBear said:
I don't see the connection. Israel will keep attacking as long as their government thinks it's a good idea. No informants means the organizations resisting will be more effective.

This is a conflict between occupied and occupier. Those who collaborate with occupiers will be dealt with. This was standard procedure in all occupied countries during ww2 for example.

Hopefully they are guilty of the crime they are accused of, but we can't know for sure.

And btw it's not just Hamas, the other groups like Islamic Jihad and PFLP also take part. I think they have some sort of tribunal set up to deal with these cases.

You are right, it is not just Hamas.
 
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