World Politics

[BullsFan22]

Re:

Starving out the rebels has been a strategy utilized by the Syrians to get bargaining power. The US had zero reason to attack the convoy as a successful ceasefire and humanitarian mission was in their best interests by far. John Kerry is an honorable person and would not call out the Russians if there was not evidence to support their involvement IMO. Plus there is the veritable smoking gun of the Russian bomb in the blast crater that I quoted above. When a false flag operation that serves neither the US or rebels' best interests is your best argument, you have none IMO.

Trying to pick at a thread or two does not unravel the whole tapestry. And the picture is pretty clear that the Russians bombed the convoy. Putting forward an explanation that it spontaneously burst into flames cemented that opinion in my mind. They also lied about their own drone being in the vicinity. If your military does a mission that you can't claim responsibility, that says a lot about the dirty nature of the mission.

I may be complete wrong, but I don't agree that John Kerry is honorable. Not in terms of the hogwash that is world politics.

 

[blutto]

Re:

You know your opponent is getting desperate when they erect such a poor straw man argument that it can be refuted by reading just a few posts above. Good grief.....

If you can't recognize when your side does wrong (as the USA has done in the ME for ages), you are the one who is a slave to ideology.

....there is this thing called projection.....and I do believe that there post is whats youse call a perfect example eh....and youse don't see these examples that often that perfect eh....this is how one would draw one in the lab but to see something like this in the wild....wow we be truly blessed....

...and btw an American drone was reported in the area and from experience we know for a absolute fact their strikes are always dead-nuts on the right target....

Cheers

 

[blutto]

Re: Re:

Starving out the rebels has been a strategy utilized by the Syrians to get bargaining power. The US had zero reason to attack the convoy as a successful ceasefire and humanitarian mission was in their best interests by far. John Kerry is an honorable person and would not call out the Russians if there was not evidence to support their involvement IMO. Plus there is the veritable smoking gun of the Russian bomb in the blast crater that I quoted above. When a false flag operation that serves neither the US or rebels' best interests is your best argument, you have none IMO.

Trying to pick at a thread or two does not unravel the whole tapestry. And the picture is pretty clear that the Russians bombed the convoy. Putting forward an explanation that it spontaneously burst into flames cemented that opinion in my mind. They also lied about their own drone being in the vicinity. If your military does a mission that you can't claim responsibility, that says a lot about the dirty nature of the mission.

I may be complete wrong, but I don't agree that John Kerry is honorable. Not in terms of the hogwash that is world politics.

....stop being polite and reasonable, that's my job....and yes you are correct....though in terms of some of the total disasters that have recently occupied that position he must appear to Merikans to be the second coming of some god-thingee ( I mean he succeeded Killary who succeeded Condolizard Lice who succeeded Yellowcake Who My Lai Powell who succeeded Madeline, the Child Murderer, Albright.... )....

Cheers

 

[movingtarget]

Syria and Obama

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/sep/22/syria-obama-us-president-putin-russia

 

[blutto]

Re:

Syria and Obama

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/sep/22/syria-obama-us-president-putin-russia

....its quite funny/strange reading this after having just finished seeing Secret State.....I believe this is pretty well the end of The Guardian as a respected and trusted source of news....it can now sit at the high table with the Hillbilly Post and the New York Trash...Judith Miller would be proud....

Cheers

 

[python]

Re: Re:

Syria and Obama

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/sep/22/syria-obama-us-president-putin-russia

....its quite funny/strange reading this after having just finished seeing Secret State.....I believe this is pretty well the end of The Guardian as a respected and trusted source of news....it can now sit at the high table with the Hillbilly Post and the New York Trash...Judith Miller would be proud....

Cheers

the article simply lacks the objective analysis of the complexities of the current syrian civil war and the bloody mess that grew out of the unopposed western interventions. i stopped reading as soon as they went into the american military intervention options.

still, i somewhat agree that obama is attempting a different, perhaps a more pragmatic approach. but the author failed to appreciate an obvious fact based on the rich evidence - one can not negotiate with putin while holding a gun to his head. and that's exactly what obama is doing perhaps not realizing that what in the west is called a carrot-stick approach to vlad looks like a crudely disguised intimidation. vlad demands what's in his view is an equal treatment. the pundits in the west love to call it a zero-sum game that outlived itself. but that's garbage. a diplomatic and for that matter any agreement to be workable needs to be based on the reciprocal steps. it's a give and take or in essence a zero-sum balance b/c the sides should not - i theory - sign out anything if they feel they gave more than they received. such an arrangement besides a cold, pragmatic calculation needs to be based on good will. a really don't think a trust (in its emotional sense) is needed.

the united state due to its long domination in most spheres including the military came to regard itself as exceptional and thus isn't used to treat anyone as their equals. if they don't treat their allies as equals - just read on why the TTIP negations with the eu has failed failed - why would they give a 'despot from the east' the right ?

i could be wrong, but my interpretation of the latest failures in syria is that the sides can not find the give and take balance. the us and their proxies want to stop the regime using its most effective weapon - its air force - while not heeding imo a reasonable expectation from the other side of separating the 'rebels' from the terrorists. to separate the 'moderate opposition' from the terrorists requires a complex and very specific agreement on the hundreds of groups. then, again imo reasonably the russians pleaded for exchange of intelligence on which groups could be targeted. the us flatly refused delivering a 'message' by slaughtering 100s of the syrian troops. i really dont think it was an error. it was 'a stick' after a carrot (a promise to separate the rebels) that the russians say never took place.

that's my armchair analysis view...

 

[djpbaltimore]

Re:

Syria and Obama

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/sep/22/syria-obama-us-president-putin-russia

Results have been scant. What seems to have been missing from the US calculus, and what Power’s comments have perhaps unwillingly underscored, is that so many signs point to a crude reality: that Assad and his backer, Vladimir Putin, aren’t just indifferent to crimes against humanity but believe they serve their purpose.

Agreed. The USA have to own their role in the ME, but the Russians are just as complicit.

 

[python]

as pointed out, unless the us starts treating its negotiating partners as equals, it will have to continue be stuck in its role of a self appointed word police, (thah the increasing number of countries, not just syria, iran, china, russia etc) reject, or take the blame for the bloody mess it leaves everywhere after its invasions.

 

[blutto]

Re: Re:

Syria and Obama

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/sep/22/syria-obama-us-president-putin-russia

....its quite funny/strange reading this after having just finished seeing Secret State.....I believe this is pretty well the end of The Guardian as a respected and trusted source of news....it can now sit at the high table with the Hillbilly Post and the New York Trash...Judith Miller would be proud....

Cheers

the article simply lacks the objective analysis of the complexities of the current syrian civil war and the bloody mess that grew out of the unopposed western interventions. i stopped reading as soon as they went into the american military intervention options.

still, i somewhat agree that obama is attempting a different, perhaps a more pragmatic approach. but the author failed to appreciate an obvious fact based on the rich evidence - one can not negotiate with putin while holding a gun to his head. and that's exactly what obama is doing perhaps not realizing that what in the west is called a carrot-stick approach to vlad looks like a crudely disguised intimidation. vlad demands what's in his view is an equal treatment. the pundits in the west love to call it a zero-sum game that outlived itself. but that's garbage. a diplomatic and for that matter any agreement to be workable needs to be based on the reciprocal steps. it's a give and take or in essence a zero-sum balance b/c the sides should not - i theory - sign out anything if they feel they gave more than they received. such an arrangement besides a cold, pragmatic calculation needs to be based on good will. a really don't think a trust (in its emotional sense) is needed.

the united state due to its long domination in most spheres including the military came to regard itself as exceptional and thus isn't used to treat anyone as their equals. if they don't treat their allies as equals - just read on why the TTIP negations with the eu has failed failed - why would they give a 'despot from the east' the right ?

i could be wrong, but my interpretation of the latest failures in syria is that the sides can not find the give and take balance. the us and their proxies want to stop the regime using its most effective weapon - its air force - while not heeding imo a reasonable expectation from the other side of separating the 'rebels' from the terrorists. to separate the 'moderate opposition' from the terrorists requires a complex and very specific agreement on the hundreds of groups. then, again imo reasonably the russians pleaded for exchange of intelligence on which groups could be targeted. the us flatly refused delivering a 'message' by slaughtering 100s of the syrian troops. i really dont think it was an error. it was 'a stick' after a carrot (a promise to separate the rebels) that the russians say never took place.

that's my armchair analysis view...

....the other option to consider is that there are two factions operating under the Merikan flag, the Pentagon/CIA and the White House, and they have agendas that at many key points are diametrically opposed....read, the echo of the neocon influence vs a more strictly Meikan based influence....

....if correct, explains a lot of the mess....

Cheers

 

[blutto]

....late breaking...

The UN has revised its recently released statement regarding the humanitarian convoy affected by an attack in Syria. The phrase “air strikes” were replaced with references to unspecified “attacks.” Change of the text of the statement came after explanations of the Russian side.

https://southfront.org/un-removes-charges-against-russia-regarding-air-strike-on-humanitarian-convoy-in-syria/

Cheers

 

[Starstruck]

Re: Re:

Syria and Obama

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/sep/22/syria-obama-us-president-putin-russia

Results have been scant. What seems to have been missing from the US calculus, and what Power’s comments have perhaps unwillingly underscored, is that so many signs point to a crude reality: that Assad and his backer, Vladimir Putin, aren’t just indifferent to crimes against humanity but believe they serve their purpose.

Agreed. The USA have to own their role in the ME, but the Russians are just as complicit.

"cause the Russians are Russians and they're just as bad or worse". How many countries have the Russians invaded since the fall of the USSR? I forget.

 

[blutto]

....and now that the UN has changed the description of the food convoy incident lets take a wee look at the folks who did the original "reporting", the Syrian Defence Agency aka the White Helmets.....

“I am a director not only of a Syrian Civil Defence Unit, but of brave human beings, volunteers who risk their lives, despite the terrorism that is invading Syria, to maintain security for Syria. I give thanks from my heart for the courage of my men who have lost their comrades in terrorist attacks but they keep working despite the risks. They are true soldiers, their equipment and their spirit are their only weapons”
~ Director of Tartous’ REAL Syria Civil Defence

Did I hear a pin drop? The real Syria Civil Defence? Are the west’s iconized ‘White Helmets’ not the only emergency first-responders inside Syria?

For the REAL Syria Civil Defence you call 113 inside Syria. There is no public number for the White Helmets. Why not? Why does this multi-million dollar US & NATO state-funded first repsonder ‘NGO,’ with state of the art equipment supplied by the US and the EU via Turkey, have no central number for civilians to call when the “bombs fall”?

Before we introduce the real Syria Civil Defence, who are Syria’s real ICDO certified civil fire and rescue organisation, let’s first take a closer look at the imposters; terrorists in white hats, and agents of war – NATO’s pseudo ‘NGO’ construct, embedded exclusively in terrorist-held parts of Syria…

We’re told that the White Helmets routinely scale the walls of collapsed buildings and scrambling over smouldering rubble of bombed out buildings to dig a child out with their bare hands. Of course, never without a sizeable camera crew and mobile phone carrying entourage in tow.

The western media mythology goes as follows:

“They are made up of former bakers, builders, taxi drivers, students, teachers, pretty much anything apart from rescue workers,” according to the much repeated phrase used by their British ex-military, USAR (Urban Search & Rescue) trainer, James Le Mesurier who specialises in outsourcing warfare – the kind of private security operations exemplified by the likes of Blackwater (now known as Academi) and DynCorp, and other well-known global suppliers of mercenaries and CIA outreach assassination experts.

“Running operations through Blackwater gave the CIA the power to have people abducted, or killed, with no one in the government being exactly responsible.” ~ The Atlantic, 2012


White Helmets founder Le Mesurier, who graduated from Britain’s elite Royal Military Academy at Sandhurst, is said to be an ‘ex’ British military intelligence officer involved in a number of other NATO ‘humanitarian intervention’ theatres of war, including Bosnia, Kosovo and Iraq, as well as postings in Lebanon and Palestine. He also boasts a series of high-profile posts at the UN, EU, and UK Foreign and Commonwealth Office. Not to mention his connections back to the infamous Blackwater (Academi).

With over $60 million in their back pocket courtesy of USAID, the UK Foreign Office and various EU nations like the Netherlands, this group is possibly one of the most feted and funded entities within the west’s anti-Syrian NGO complex, a pivotal part of the clandestine shadow state building enterprise inside of Syria.

Like many other ‘NGOs’, the White Helmets have been deployed by the west to derail the Syrian state, first by undermining existing civic structures and by disseminating staged PR to facilitate regime change propaganda, through western and Gulf state media outlets. Despite the fact that they were started, and are still generously funded by NATO members states, particularly from the US and UK, the White Helmets’ official statement still claims categorically that they are somehow “fiercely independent” and “have accepted no money from governments, corporations or anyone directly involved in the Syrian conflict“. This is both farcical and deeply misleading.

RELATED: ‘Aleppo Media Centre’ Funded By French Foreign Office, EU and US

They claim they are not “tied to any political group in Syria, or anywhere else”, yet they are embedded with Al Nusra Front, ISIS and affiliated with the majority of US allied terrorist brigades infesting Syria. In fact during my recent trip to Syria, I was once again struck by the response from the majority of Syrians when asked if they knew who the White Helmets were. The majority had never heard of them, others who follow western media noted that they are a “NATO construct being used to infiltrate Syria as a major player in the terrorist support network.”

Let us now focus upon the very real heroes inside Syria, the real Syria Civil Defence that have been usurped by the NATO mountebank White Helmets who also call themselves the “Syria Civil Defence” – a mere simulacra of the REAL Syria Civil Defence who have been saving lives in Syria, and further afield for decades.

The REAL Syria Civil Defence was established as an organisation, in 1953, some 63 years before the White Helmets were a glimmer in the eyes of CIA and MI6 operatives.

The REAL Syria Civil Defence is a founding member of the ICDO (International Civil Defence Organisation). Other ICDO partners include the UN Department of Humanitarian Affairs (OCHA), Secretarian of the International Strategy for Disaster Reduction (UNISDR), International Search and Rescue Advisory Group (INSARAG), World Health Organisation (WHO), United Nations of Geneva (UNOG), Red Cross and the Red Crescent.

To our knowledge and according to the Head Quarters of the REAL Syria Civil Defence in Damascus, the White Helmets are NOT a member of the ICDO. The REAL Syria White Helmets have received awards for their participation in the training of other member states in USAR (Urban Search and Rescue) and for their contributions to the Civil Defence community, prior to the NATO dirty war on Syria that began in earnest, in 2011.

Later in Part II, we will go into further detail regarding this affiliation with the ICDO and the role the REAL Syria Civil Defence has played in global civil defence developments for the last 63 years – which is tremendous, and something the White Helmets could never lay claim to in reality, despite all the superficial accolades being rained down upon them by the US and NATO fueled organisations, foundations and cosmetic award bodies.

http://21stcenturywire.com/2016/09/23/exclusive-the-real-syria-civil-defence-expose-natos-white-helmets-as-terrorist-linked-imposters/

Cheers

 

[blutto]

....oh lookee here, non White Helmet comments on the food convoy incident....read comments from folks who were actually there and are not part of a US, uhhh, "sponsored" organization...

Commenting on Monday’s attack on the humanitarian convoy in Syria, both Russian experts and representatives of the Syrian Arab Red Crescent, who escorted the convoy, agree that it was a provocation. Russian experts suggest it was aimed at distracting attention from an earlier attack on Syrian army positions by the US-led coalition.

“There is no evidence that it was an airstrike of either Russian or Syrian aviation on the humanitarian convoy in Syria,” Wael al Malas, the representative of the Syrian branch of the Red Crescent, which escorted the convoy, told Russia’s Izvestiya newspaper.


“On the contrary, everything points to it being the militants of the terrorist organizations who exploded and set on fire the trucks of the convoy,” he added.

It should be also noted, al Malas added, that the attack coincided with the militant assault on the positions of the Syrian army near Aleppo.


“Therefore it was more likely a provocation aimed at capturing the media’s attention in order to accuse Damascus and Moscow of the attack,” he stated

.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/attack-on-humanitarian-convoy-in-syria-provocation-aimed-to-distract-attention/5547223

Cheers

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Re: Re:

Syria and Obama

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/sep/22/syria-obama-us-president-putin-russia

Results have been scant. What seems to have been missing from the US calculus, and what Power’s comments have perhaps unwillingly underscored, is that so many signs point to a crude reality: that Assad and his backer, Vladimir Putin, aren’t just indifferent to crimes against humanity but believe they serve their purpose.

Agreed. The USA have to own their role in the ME, but the Russians are just as complicit.

"cause the Russians are Russians and they're just as bad or worse". How many countries have the Russians invaded since the fall of the USSR? I forget.

2

 

[blutto]

Re: Re:

Syria and Obama

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/sep/22/syria-obama-us-president-putin-russia

Results have been scant. What seems to have been missing from the US calculus, and what Power’s comments have perhaps unwillingly underscored, is that so many signs point to a crude reality: that Assad and his backer, Vladimir Putin, aren’t just indifferent to crimes against humanity but believe they serve their purpose.

Agreed. The USA have to own their role in the ME, but the Russians are just as complicit.

"cause the Russians are Russians and they're just as bad or worse". How many countries have the Russians invaded since the fall of the USSR? I forget.

2

....curious, which two ?....

Cheers

 

[python]

Re: Re:

2

....curious, which two ?....

Cheers

dont strain, knuckles, will you :razz:

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Re: Re:

Syria and Obama

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/sep/22/syria-obama-us-president-putin-russia

Results have been scant. What seems to have been missing from the US calculus, and what Power’s comments have perhaps unwillingly underscored, is that so many signs point to a crude reality: that Assad and his backer, Vladimir Putin, aren’t just indifferent to crimes against humanity but believe they serve their purpose.

Agreed. The USA have to own their role in the ME, but the Russians are just as complicit.

"cause the Russians are Russians and they're just as bad or worse". How many countries have the Russians invaded since the fall of the USSR? I forget.

2

....curious, which two ?....

Cheers

Crimea and Ukraine...but I'm sure you'll say that was Obamas and Clinton's fault.

 

[djpbaltimore]

Don't give them any ideas, although the conspiracy theories make for entertaining reading. Still waiting for a legit reason for the US to attack the convoy. Russia had the motive...

 

[blutto]

Re: Re:

....curious, which two ?....

Cheers

Crimea and Ukraine...but I'm sure you'll say that was Obamas and Clinton's fault

.

....that funny real funny....hahaha....

Cheers

 

[blutto]

Re:

Don't give them any ideas, although the conspiracy theories make for entertaining reading. Still waiting for a legit reason for the US to attack the convoy. Russia had the motive...

....you funny too.....you and Busted should take your show on the road.....youse would make a mint in Vegas....

Cheers

 

[blutto]

Re:

Don't give them any ideas, although the conspiracy theories make for entertaining reading. Still waiting for a legit reason for the US to attack the convoy. Russia had the motive...

....geez that should be obvious to someone even as, uhhhh, "brilliant" as yourself.....first take the heat off for the earlier attack on the Syrian position which made the US look both stupid and duplicitous, and second produce some fodder to facilitate a wall papering of the Western media with more stories of how evil Putin is ( which also has the added bonus of producing an anti-Putin $h!t-storm just before the first debate.....the next major event in an election cycle where Shillary is really, for all intents and purposes, running against Putin....)...

....just a thought eh....

Cheers

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Re: Re:

....curious, which two ?....

Cheers

Crimea and Ukraine...but I'm sure you'll say that was Obamas and Clinton's fault

.

....that funny real funny....hahaha....

Cheers

So you are saying Russia didn't 'annex' Crimea and there are not Russian troops and hardware in Ukraine?
Just checking since you seem to be the 'expert' here and on the US, ahem, USA politics section.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Re: Re:

Don't give them any ideas, although the conspiracy theories make for entertaining reading. Still waiting for a legit reason for the US to attack the convoy. Russia had the motive...

....geez that should be obvious to someone even as, uhhhh, "brilliant" as yourself.....first take the heat off for the earlier attack on the Syrian position which made the US look both stupid and duplicitous, and second produce some fodder to facilitate a wall papering of the Western media with more stories of how evil Putin is ( which also has the added bonus of producing an anti-Putin $h!t-storm just before the first debate.....the next major event in an election cycle where Shillary is really, for all intents and purposes, running against Putin....)...

....just a thought eh....

Cheers

And Dubya was behind the 9/11 attack. Syria is kinda 'way over there' but a US attack on an aid convoy orchestrated by the US...then attacked by the US for political points....right...no. And the US didn't shoot the airliner down in Ukraine either, sorry. I know you and at least one other see the US as the 'evil empire', with lots of cute names but.....reality, facts please. If you really believe it, some facts, and not from some lunatic fringe website manned by resident wackos who think a US operative is behind every closed door.

 

[aphronesis]

Interesting US centric history of the slavic lands.

 

[blutto]

Re: Re:

....curious, which two ?....

Cheers

Crimea and Ukraine...but I'm sure you'll say that was Obamas and Clinton's fault

.

....that funny real funny....hahaha....

Cheers

So you are saying Russia didn't 'annex' Crimea and there are not Russian troops and hardware in Ukraine?
Just checking since you seem to be the 'expert' here and on the US, ahem, USA politics section.

....you may want to perhaps acquaint yourself with the history of Crimea, especially the last couple of decades, and cross reference that that against the referendums that were run during that period and cross reference again against the Kosovo precedent...you know, so you can get a clearer idea of what actually went on there instead of just regurgitating some self-serving US propaganda......

...sure there are most likely Russians and Russians weapons in the Donbas ( it was, after all a heavily Russified part of the Soviet union and where they would obviously have and hence use weapons from that era...and btw the Ukrainians are using weapons from that era as well ) just like there are Americans fighting with ISIS/al Qaeda in Syria using American weapons (so using your intimation we can say the US government is actively backing ISIS ?...and as recent events "clearly" show also providing air-support and logistics ?.... )

...btw don't consider myself an "expert" but then the competition here is often pretty, errr, weak....as an example, I have some ability to read critically and can actually understand a lot of what I read....and I don't make really silly mistakes like say, continually confusing the old USSR with Russia ....so to the untrained eye it may well appear to be the case...

Cheers